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Trouble in parsing the perplexing prepositions
(27 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
1 2 3
1.       si++
3785 posts
 14 Oct 2009 Wed 09:39 am

What did you bring that book that I didn´t want to be read to out of up from out of in under for?

 

Who can translate this to Turkish for me correctly? Or explain it to me in English if they have the same trouble?

 

I can only decode the last one  (what ... for?)

2.       MeDanone
73 posts
 14 Oct 2009 Wed 10:09 am

What did you bring that book that I didn´t want to be read to out of up from out of in under for?

 

Who can translate this to Turkish for me correctly? Or explain it to me in English if they have the same trouble?

 

I can only decode the last one  (what ... for?)

 

This sort of rambling is sort of common in less privileged neighbourhood in England, Middle England. And that person must be really upset to be bothered by a book or the person coming with the book. Though maybe the person misspoke ´what´ for ´why´.

 

Then rambles on.....



Edited (10/14/2009) by MeDanone

3.       fuki
61 posts
 14 Oct 2009 Wed 01:02 pm

 

Quoting MeDanone

This sort of rambling is sort of common in less privileged neighbourhood in England, Middle England. And that person must be really upset to be bothered by a book or the person coming with the book. Though maybe the person misspoke ´what´ for ´why´.

 

Then rambles on.....

 

We´re now writing under the Turkish Class Forums / Practice Turkish and what an English expression means in Turkish isn´t meant to be discussed here, but it was interesting to learn that point. Thank you for the clear explanation.

4.       yakamozzz
398 posts
 14 Oct 2009 Wed 01:49 pm

 

Quoting fuki

 

 

We´re now writing under the Turkish Class Forums / Practice Turkish and what an English expression means in Turkish isn´t meant to be discussed here, but it was interesting to learn that point. Thank you for the clear explanation.

 

yes but wasn´t it meant to be translated into turkish? read the first post, too maybe that´s the point of reading forums - starting from reading the first post?

5.       Myra
92 posts
 14 Oct 2009 Wed 02:24 pm

i also agree - the sentence to start with WHY - not WHAT - because i think it should be a question. 

6.       si++
3785 posts
 14 Oct 2009 Wed 03:56 pm

 

Quoting MeDanone

This sort of rambling is sort of common in less privileged neighbourhood in England, Middle England. And that person must be really upset to be bothered by a book or the person coming with the book. Though maybe the person misspoke ´what´ for ´why´.

 

Then rambles on.....

 

Many thanks.

7.       si++
3785 posts
 14 Oct 2009 Wed 03:59 pm

 

Quoting Myra

i also agree - the sentence to start with WHY - not WHAT - because i think it should be a question. 

 

why = what for

 

I think the point in choosing "what for" over "why" is to add another preposition to this long cluster

 

to out of up from out of in under for

8.       libralady
5152 posts
 20 Oct 2009 Tue 03:01 pm

 

Quoting si++

What did you bring that book that I didn´t want to be read to out of up from out of in under for?

 

Who can translate this to Turkish for me correctly? Or explain it to me in English if they have the same trouble?

 

I can only decode the last one  (what ... for?)

 

 I am not sure that anyone could translate this to Turkish without it first making sense in English.

 

I am not sure why you have written the words at the end of the sentance in red and what are they supposed to mean?  Are they different endings to the sentance?

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

"What did you bring the book that I didn´t want to read for?"   (using "what" at the beginning of the sentance and "for" at the end, gives the sentance a bit of a sarcastic tone).

 

"What did you bring that book for?  I didn´t want to read it"

 

or it could read

 

"Why did you bring the book that I didn´t want to read?"  (A slightly softer tone)

9.       si++
3785 posts
 20 Oct 2009 Tue 06:12 pm

 

Quoting libralady

 

 

 I am not sure that anyone could translate this to Turkish without it first making sense in English.

So you have the same trouble as me. I saw that sentence in a language new group. As it is posted by a native speaker they are supposed to have some meaning, I thought.

 

I am not sure why you have written the words at the end of the sentance in red and what are they supposed to mean?  Are they different endings to the sentance?

 

I thought I made it clear in the heading as they are all called prepositions in the grammar books.

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

"What did you bring the book that I didn´t want to read for?"   (using "what" at the beginning of the sentance and "for" at the end, gives the sentance a bit of a sarcastic tone).

 

"What did you bring that book for?  I didn´t want to read it"

 

or it could read

 

"Why did you bring the book that I didn´t want to read?"  (A slightly softer tone)

 

 



Edited (10/20/2009) by si++

10.       Melike1
388 posts
 20 Oct 2009 Tue 06:34 pm

 

Quoting libralady

 

 

 I am not sure that anyone could translate this to Turkish without it first making sense in English.

 

I am not sure why you have written the words at the end of the sentance in red and what are they supposed to mean?  Are they different endings to the sentance?

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

"What did you bring the book that I didn´t want to read for?"   (using "what" at the beginning of the sentance and "for" at the end, gives the sentance a bit of a sarcastic tone).

 

"What did you bring that book for?  I didn´t want to read it"

 

or it could read

 

"Why did you bring the book that I didn´t want to read?"  (A slightly softer tone)

 

 At first I didn´t understand the sentence too but it had to be :

to, out, of, up, from, out, of, in, under, for

It isn´t a sentence but words (prepositions) Big smile

11.       lady in red
6947 posts
 20 Oct 2009 Tue 06:47 pm

 

Quoting si++

What did you bring that book that I didn´t want to be read to out of up from out of in under for?

 

Who can translate this to Turkish for me correctly? Or explain it to me in English if they have the same trouble?

 

I can only decode the last one  (what ... for?)

 

Part of that - but not all of it - makes a sensible sentence.

 

What did you bring that book that I didn´t want to be read to out of, up from (somewhere) for

 

That would mean ´why did you bring that book, that I didn´t want to listen to you read from, up here (from somewhere else)?´

 

(I´m not sure what answer you´re looking for but does that explain anything at all?)



Edited (10/20/2009) by lady in red

12.       libralady
5152 posts
 20 Oct 2009 Tue 06:53 pm

 

Quoting Melike1

 

 

 At first I didn´t understand the sentence too but it had to be :

to, out, of, up, from, out, of, in, under, for

It isn´t a sentence but words (prepositions) Big smile

 

 Yes I know, that is what I wrote!  It would be better if he could say which of these he wanted to use, or does he want to use them all (in there turn).  Most of them would not make any sense, so hopefully between myself and LIR we have given him some options for translation.

13.       si++
3785 posts
 21 Oct 2009 Wed 09:46 am

Thanks guys. My trouble was with those prepositions. Having seen that you native speakers have some problem with it I excuse myself, but those prepositions are supposed to be something meaningful.

 

What did you bring that book that I didn´t want to be read to out of up from out of in under for?

 

After some thinking now I am able to analyze them as follows:

 

for is related to what at the beginning so what is left is something like

to x from y (to out of up from out of in under)

and both x and y can further be broken down as

out of z (out of up & out of in under)

as such...

 

Now it is not that meaningless to me anymore but still it´s hard to translate. Anyway.

14.       Henry
2604 posts
 21 Oct 2009 Wed 10:13 am

...... to out of up from out of in under for?

This is a convoluted sentence!

If the book was in a box under a table, you could say: You got it up from out of (a box) in under (the table).

If the book was also downstairs (maybe in a basement) and you brought it outside, you could say: You got the book out of (the house) up from (the basement) out of (a box) in under (a table), but to not use nouns with the positional prepositions is just fooling around. Smile

15.       si++
3785 posts
 21 Oct 2009 Wed 10:22 am

 

Quoting Henry

...... to out of up from out of in under for?

This is a convoluted sentence!

If the book was in a box under a table, you could say: You got it up from out of (a box) in under (the table).

If the book was also downstairs (maybe in a basement) and you brought it outside, you could say: You got the book out of (the house) up from (the basement) out of (a box) in under (a table), but to not use nouns with the positional prepositions is just fooling around. Smile

Thanks Henry but you missed the "to" in your sentence.

You mean my "to x from y" parsing is wrong?

 

16.       lady in red
6947 posts
 21 Oct 2009 Wed 10:38 am

 

Quoting si++

 

Thanks Henry but you missed the "to" in your sentence.

You mean my "to x from y" parsing is wrong?

 

 

The ´to´ goes with ´read´ - the verb is ´to read to´.  (Sorry - I don´t think I made that very clear in my above post).   That part is ´the book that I didn´t want to be read to out of ´(out of =from) (that takes care of the first 3)´ 


Like Henry, I think the rest is probably - up from´ (from a place below) out of (removing it from somewhere) in under.

 

It makes a kind of sense and you can get away with up from out of  butl the last part ´in under´ does seem to need a noun!

 

(Probably even more muddling - sorry!)



Edited (10/21/2009) by lady in red [Trying to explain ]

17.       gulbil
88 posts
 21 Oct 2009 Wed 10:54 am

 

Quoting MeDanone

This sort of rambling is sort of common in less privileged neighbourhood in England, Middle England. And that person must be really upset to be bothered by a book or the person coming with the book. Though maybe the person misspoke ´what´ for ´why´.

 

Then rambles on.....

 

 that sentence can be corrected as ´´what did you bring that book for that i did not want to read?´´

and it means ;

´´okumak istemediðim kitabý neden getirdin?´´

18.       lady in red
6947 posts
 21 Oct 2009 Wed 11:02 am

 

Quoting gulbil

 

 

 that sentence can be corrected as ´´what did you bring that book for that i did not want to read?´´

and it means ;

´´okumak istemediðim kitabý neden getirdin?´´

 

Gulbil - the sentence contains much more than that - native English speakers are having problems understanding it!!!   Si++ is not after a correction to the sentence - he is after an explanation of its construction.

19.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 21 Oct 2009 Wed 11:07 am

 

Quoting lady in red

 

 

Gulbil - the sentence contains much more than that - native English speakers are having problems understanding it!!!   Si++ is not after a correction to the sentence - he is after an explanation of its construction.

 

 Well...for more there is an extra charge Big smile

20.       MeDanone
73 posts
 21 Oct 2009 Wed 11:48 am

Quote:si++

What did you bring that book that I didn´t want to be read to out of up from out of in under for?

 

Who can translate this to Turkish for me correctly? Or explain it to me in English if they have the same trouble?

 

I can only decode the last one  (what ... for?)

 

I understand what si++ ´s friend is probably trying to tell him. It´s the likes of Lauren Cooper way of speaking. My friends from England speaks atrocious English and they are supposedly ´English´.

 

From my experience that I had with my friends, the sentences probably meant in standard English.

 

Quote:

What did you bring that book that I didn´t want to be read to out of up from out of in under for?

 

Why did you bring that book that I said I didn´t want to be read

to=(over here)

out of=(out of the place where the "it", the book was originally)

up from=(referring to the book´s original placing) 

out of=(Again out of the place where the the book was originally placed) in=(indicating that the out of before probably referring to the exact position of the book, perhaps a shelf, different to the first one which refers to something more general like the library, a house, a room)

under=(can either be "What reason is IT brought - DOWN HERE or pointing out the manner IT is brought around)

 

si++ was right about the sentence being a statement asking "What for are you doing this?" People shouldn´t really be too riled up about this. It´s only a case of "AM I BOVVERED?!" and a failed chav attitude. Brits might get what I´m trying to say.

 



Edited (10/21/2009) by MeDanone

21.       lady in red
6947 posts
 21 Oct 2009 Wed 03:36 pm

I understand what si++ ´s friend is probably trying to tell him. It´s the likes of Lauren Cooper way of speaking. My friends from England speaks atrocious English and they are supposedly ´English´.

=

 

 

 

Quoting MeDanone

 

 

si++ was right about the sentence being a statement asking "What for are you doing this?" People shouldn´t really be too riled up about this. It´s only a case of "AM I BOVVERED?!" and a failed chav attitude. Brits might get what I´m trying to say.

 

 

Well - none of the native-speakers who have commented on this thread speaks atrocious English so maybe our opinions have more credence.  Just for interest, I googled the words and it seems that the first part of the sentence is actually an exercise in illustrating that, in English, a sentence can end on a preposition - although most of us were taught it shouldn´t.

 

There´s something about it here and some comments on this language forum

 

Oh and btw - referring to your other post  the term ´Middle England´ doesn´t exactly refer to Chavland.  lol

 

(Just thought - you must mean E***x )

 



Edited (10/21/2009) by lady in red [....must get those white stilettos cleaned.....]

22.       si++
3785 posts
 22 Oct 2009 Thu 09:06 am

Many thanks to All who contributed to this thread. It´s been very informative for me.

 

23.       MeDanone
73 posts
 22 Oct 2009 Thu 09:35 am

Have you heard how some people in Loughborough speaks, lady in red? London East End is the official homeland for the ´chavs´ but what do you call them ´wannabes´ that are not exactly from London. If it was up to the likes of my former tutor Mr W Calvert, he would´ve exterminated everyone in Hathern and Shepshed to expand his aspiration for the ´Greater Loughborough´ along with fox hunting and laying off Belgium as the Euro-Landfill and saying all Belgians are degenerates. He confessed that he didn´t really mean it but his occasional claims of alien-abduction, who would take him seriously. Even Belgians that came as exchange students enjoyed his sense of humour.Big smile

24.       Henry
2604 posts
 22 Oct 2009 Thu 09:49 am

Thanks LIR for your research.

Just for your information si++ ´From out of Down Under´ means something ´coming from Australia´ (I think a reference to under the equator, but there are probably other theories!) Smile

25.       si++
3785 posts
 22 Oct 2009 Thu 09:53 am

 

Quoting Henry

Thanks LIR for your research.

Just for your information si++ ´From out of Down Under´ means something ´coming from Australia´ (I think a reference to under the equator, but there are probably other theories!) Smile

 

Henry,

 

Yes I know it since I heard in the following lyrics:

 

Men At Work » Land Down Under Lyrics

Traveling in a fried-out combie
On a hippie trail, head full of zombie
I met a strange lady, she made me nervous
She took me in and gave me breakfast
And she said,

"Do you come from a land down under?
Where women glow and men plunder?
Can´t you hear, can´t you hear the thunder?
You better run, you better take cover."

Buying bread from a man in Brussels
He was six foot four and full of muscles
I said, "Do you speak-a my language?"
He just smiled and gave me a vegemite sandwich
And he said,

"I come from a land down under
Where beer does flow and men chunder
Can´t you hear, can´t you hear the thunder?
You better run, you better take cover."

Lying in a den in Bombay
With a slack jaw, and not much to say
I said to the man, "Are you trying to tempt me
Because I come from the land of plenty?"
And he said,

"Oh! Do you come from a land down under? (oh yeah yeah)
Where women glow and men plunder?
Can´t you hear, can´t you hear the thunder?
You better run, you better take cover."

26.       MeDanone
73 posts
 22 Oct 2009 Thu 10:46 am

Is it true then Henry that you Aussies like getting drunk on Fosters and chunders a lot. Just like the Brits huh? Satisfied nod

27.       Henry
2604 posts
 22 Oct 2009 Thu 11:52 pm

 

Quoting MeDanone

Is it true then Henry that you Aussies like getting drunk on Fosters and chunders a lot. Just like the Brits huh? Satisfied nod

 

It´s as true as the saying that ´all Brits are whingers´. <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'>

Actually Fosters is not drunk very much in Australia, but ´chundering´ still occurs!! Smile

 

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