What is this? Is it a new way to ´quash´ the reactions?

 FREEDOM OF SPEECH FOREVER

gokuyum

5:10 pm

stumpy she has never wished you dead. Don´t be such a drama queen. If you have any proof then prove it. Don´t talk with empty words and baseless accusations. Once you were such good friends. What happened? Have you decided to find favor in administration sight? All of a sudden what is you anger to spritzer/paramedic?

Last modified:5:11 pm

stumpy

Jun 17   

turkishcobra,

You say it is not fair to kick a user off the website and delete their account. Is it fair that that person wishes the death of someone? Is it fair that that person treats others like a sub class of humanity? Is it fair that that person tries to use brute force the get a point across? I find that it is not fair.

Some TC members have not lived or or not living in countries where dayly conflicts occure. And to have someone try to impose their moralety upon others is not fair in my point of view. That is what certain members were doing when they were warned time and time again to respect others and be respectfull.

I would never say that my opinions or moralety is better than yours and I would not force it upon you or anyone else. So why is it that certain members cannot have the same respect?

turkishcobra

Jun 17   

Wasn´t this website for learning Turkish? How can all these political, endless and ´provocative´ discussions help people to learn and develop Turkish; since all these discussions are not in TURKISH?

The topics that you have been discussing about (Armenian and Kurdish issues) are very very sensetive topics and how can you deny all these reactions? You are touching to the most sensitive points of people and when they react you kick them out of the website and deleting their accounts. This is not fair; I invite everybody to stop talking about such sensitive topics! Or get ready for extreme reactions!

Last modified:Jun 17

Response by thehandsom

10:44 pm

I explained "why do we need to talk about these topics" in the first column of the series:

So in my opinion talking openly about the subject of Armenians will have a direct impact on pushing Turkey towards becoming a real democratic state..

It is not only just about learning some facts but also it is necessary for other ethnic-religious groups in Turkey. We can not afford another incident like this. We have to be in peace with our past. Being in peace with our history will have a positive aspect of becoming a better democratic state. All those variations in our society, all those different ethnic groups are our richness. Why do we need to deprive ourselves from this treasure?So, we will talk about this issue from with the aim and perspective of creating a better Turkey..

lady in red

Jun 17

Gokuyum: repeat message from my last post:

´AND BY THE WAY - IN CASE IT´S ESCAPED YOUR ATTENTION - I HAVEN´T BEEN AN ADMIN ON THIS SITE FOR OVER TWO MONTHS NOW´.

I am so sorry you find the administrators of this site so undemocratic - the strange thing is that no matter how much people complain (and trust me you are by far and away from being the first and certainly won´t be the last), no-one else actually seriously wants to do the job. I wonder why that is?

Last modified:Jun 17

gokuyum

Jun 17   

Handsome talking is another thing and making an agreement is another thing. Because a written agreement means our government recognizes PKK as a representative of Kurdish people. And saying this without a proof is a provocation. So i don1t need to apologize. If you can prove a written agreement exist i will apologize.

Response by thehandsom

10:35 pm

Ha ha

I dont think you believe what you are saying.

You got to be kidding me..

It is the head of MIT; appointed by the PM; PM is not denying it..

Will the copy of that agreement do or you need the original?

You owe an apology!!

Instead of marching up and down and trying to protect other people´s rights, you should show the grace and accept it..

Say it:

"SORRY. I DID NOT KNOW IT"

Last modified:10:38 pm

gokuyum

Jun 17

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Gang exists. And some other people can see it too. I am not dreaming.I protest you and your undemocratic administration.

lady in red

Jun 17

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I didn´t realise you and spritzer were a ´team´. Spritzer was rude, offensive and insulting to many members both in the forums and in the chat room and also to the owner of the site (not talking about just in the forums here). Being ´wise and charming´ is no excuse for behaving in this way. She clearly indicated her contempt for other tc members and finally enough was obviously enough and she was deleted.

Returning as Paramedic, it was immediately clear who she was but no comment was made until she ´started up´ again and thus - in line with forum rules - was deleted. As for being ´provoked by admin´ - as ´spritzer´ I think it was more a case of taking her down a peg or two than provoking her - that young lady is clearly very fond of the sound of her own voice - and as paramedic I can see no evidence of any dialogue between her and any of the admin team apart from Sonunda´s warning to her about personal comments made in her little campaign to belittle barba_mama (which predictably enough got a rude reply).

And by the way - in case it´s escaped your attention - I haven´t been an admin on this site for over two months now.

Oh - and I just noticed you mentioning ´the gang´ again - DOESN´T EXIST!!!

Last modified:Jun 17

lady in red

Jun 17

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Thank you TC and Stumpy - I was clearly focussing on the other meaning of ´commended´!

gokuyum

Jun 17

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Lady in red as you said she is a wonderful human being and very smart. I adore her because of these. She is not also smart but she is also wise. Only thing in this world charms me is wisdom. She tried to share her wisdom with you.But you refused her rudely. And you waited for an excuse to delete her. So you gave her such an impression that you don´t care about wisdom, facts and experiences. And you only care for your little gang. As much as you provoked her she used harsh words against you. When i am provoked i can use harsh words too. I said handsome "you are a poisonous snake" because he said our government has made an agreement with PKK. You know PKK killed thousand of innocent people even Kurds and saying our government has made an agreement with PKK without any proof is a provocation. If you provoke a person, he/she can say bad words. You should first stop provocation. If there is a provocation you can´t blame only one side. This is a double standard. But it is so sad witnessing admins provoking a person and kicking her out because of her harsh reaction. I find this site very helpful. I like helping people. I met with wonderful people here. But this kind of administration extinguishes all my enthusiasm. You are like Israeli soldiers who board on a ship in international waters and when people don´t welcome them and react against them they kill them and say they started it. But they are the provokers boarding on a ship in international waters. Your behavior is like theirs. You never accept you are wrong and never excuse. You are never trying to stop provocation. Then don´t blame me and spritzer.

Last modified:Jun 17

Response by thehandsom

Jun 17

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Off..what is the provocation here?

You get provoked because I said ´our government is talking to PKK´? Phew!!

Why are you not blaming your incapacity about the subject?

-http://www.taraf.com.tr/haber/muzakere-yok-temas-var.htm (this is a news article in Turkish: according to some PKK leaders, there is contact with the governement)

-http://www.radikal.com.tr/Radikal.aspx?aType=RadikalDetay&ArticleID=1002665&Date=15.06.2010&CategoryID=77 (acording to Talabani -the president of Iraq-;PKK leader Apo, did send Talabani a message and Talabani passed the ´requests´ to MIT. And he asked Erdogan if he knew the contact between MIT and PKK..Erdogan says YES)

-http://www.taraf.com.tr/haber/mit-mustesari-apo-yla-gorusmus.htm (Turkish news, from the Turkish prosecuters: Head of MIT had a meeting with Apo about a cease fire)

So are you going to come up and apologise like a decent person and say ´sorry..I did not know´?

Last modified:Jun 17

turkishcobra

Jun 17

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Let the fox guard the henhouse!

Now, you got it, LIR?

Last modified:Jun 17

stumpy

Jun 17

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Lambs were commended to wolves means that innocents were sacrificed

lady in red

Jun 17

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´Lambs were commended to wolves in this website!!´

I don´t understand what this means?

lady in red

Jun 17

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To Gokuyum:

Firstly - this ´gang´ that you seem totally obsessed with simply does not exist. Secondly I think your adoration of paramedic/spritzer is ill-placed. Maybe your English is not good enough for you to see from her posts what an intrinsically self-important, self-righteous and generally ´un-charming´ person´ she really is. Yes, I am sure she has opinions and ideas like everyone on the site and maybe underneath it all she´s just a ´wonderful human being´ - but most people on the site (that´s MOST PEOPLE)are able to express themselves in a less aggressive, sneering, unpleasant manner. In my opinion it´s her general unpleasantness that got her deleted not her views.

Last modified:Jun 17

turkishcobra

Jun 17

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Lambs were commended to wolves in this website!!

gokuyum

Jun 17

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(-3)

why did you kick out paramedic/spritzer again? Congratulations to you and your gang.if you consider what is written in other post this is mild and very ethical she is just merely pointing out the facts (she thinks so)

Last modified:Jun 17

catwoman

Jun 17

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(-1)

I have removed one comment of Paramedic due to extreme nastiness, and I have deleted her account for returning to the site and continuing to violate the site rules.

stumpy

Jun 16

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(+1)

no wonder you were banned as spritzer. you are a self righteous know it all and the only opinion that matters is yours!

Paramedic

Jun 16

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STUMPY GO WATCH TV YOU ARE TO ARE NOT BRIGHT ENOUGH TO RESPOND TO ANY FURTHER

stumpy

Jun 16

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and by the way:

I would like to know who you are plunking to be able to write these little blurbs. You sound like either a latent history teacher who no one will listen to and because of this you must inundate this sight with all your prepared lessons, or perhaps a wannabe journalist and no one wants your articles.

Who are you angry at that you need to write all of this on a mundane site where only perhaps 3% can actually understand the moral and pragmatic issues of politics. You should be writing this somewhere else

this is not a comment on the post but on the writer and why he is permitted to post blurps as you put it!

stumpy

Jun 16

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hum and you call me a coward, at least I do not attack you personally, just some of your opinions and ways of thinking! Oh and nice shot attacking my heart condition and blaming my eating habbits, good one! Points to you little miss perfect!

Last modified:Jun 16

Paramedic

Jun 16

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Stumpy you are a coward to try to bring others to this argument first - my comment was regarding the article but you blindly directed your opinions to me instead of the article written ( do you have a opinion perhaps a pragmatic or zeitgeist suggestion for fixing - awww come on give us your opionions on the articles - secondly you contradicted yourself - thirdly from what I read about your posts you have nothing but gobbly gook to offer and forth you have no idea what I think. I will blame your blatant ignorant attitude and behavior on you heart medication and condition. Perhaps you should spend your time learning how to eat properly so that your arteries are not so clogged up eh!

oh and please learn to spell it makes you seem so ..........

Last modified:Jun 16

stumpy

Jun 16

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I see you edited you earlier post, what is wrong? are you affrad of reprisals?

here is your original post that you so kindly modefied:

Je crois que vous êtes vraiment pas de valeur l´effort.

Il ressemblerait au fait de donner un coup de pied à un homme muet sourd aveugle sans jambes.

Allez ailleurs à la pisse s´il vous plaît que je ne m´intéresse pas à que vous devez dire

stumpy

Jun 16

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By the way here is the translation of what paramedic wrote in French:

I think you´re really not worth the effort.

It would be like in giving a kick to a blind deaf mute man without legs.

Go elsewhere to piss please I´m not interested in that you say

If this is what she thinks of me an my opinions just imagine what she thinks of the opinions of others.

stumpy

Jun 16

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if you want to insult me in my native tongue please use something else that google translate.

thank you for the laught!

stumpy

Jun 16

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no need too paramedic, or should I say spritzer. I have a life! contrary to you. Doesn´t the army keep you busy enought? And if you want a fight go right ahead, you may be the one being run up a tree abnd down the other side. You want to play dirty I can play dirty. It seems that you are the only one who can post comments and insult people well sorry girl, life´s a bitch then you meet me!

And for your information if I want to take thehamdsom´s side I can. Last time I checked we were living in a free country and we could make our own decisions.

You want a pm for this, well sorry cannot oblidge because you go around doing to others what you want me to do in private to you.

Why don´t you eat your own dog food and pm me personally if you want a fight!

Paramedic

Jun 16

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by the way if handsome had an issue with this he would let me know so you going around tying up other peoples shoe laces is not needed GET A LIFE!!

I have already discussed with handsome my thoughts privately and he has no concern if you want to fight with me bring it on girl because I will run you up a tree and down the other side but do in in private sent me a pm as I don´t need an audience for this.

Last modified:Jun 16

stumpy

Jun 16

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(+1)

Hum! Nice, straight for the juggular. I was commenting on your "attack" on thehandsome.

And maybe you should, instead of looking for threads that you could use for confrontations, post something that is worth while and maybe bring us something that would enrich us intellectualy and challendge us, instead of putting others down.

And by the way, who said I support them. I rather want to know both sides and my opinions or judgment is my own and no one elses. I want to share I will share if not I keep it to myself.

You are in no way to put words in my mouth or ideas in my head. Find someone else than me to try and "convert" to your opinions.

Last modified:Jun 16

Paramedic

Jun 16

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yes I can see the reason why you are not in the 3% because if you actually read what these articles are about you just blew a hole in your own support of them

Last modified:Jun 16

stumpy

Jun 16

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I saw the movie but like everything there are 2 sides to the story. the movie is one side of the story.

And you have not answered my question, I am not inthe 3% of what?

Last modified:Jun 16

Paramedic

Jun 16

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there was a movie I saw called Ararat maybe you should watch it stumpy will give you a gist of what this is all about

http://www.movies-links.tv/movies/ararat/

stumpy

Jun 16

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pardon my ignorance but 3% of what?

Paramedic

Jun 16

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haha good post stumpy tells me you are not in the 3%

stumpy

Jun 16

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(+1)

It saddens me to see that it is the writer that is "accused" of paying someone to post. It is like calling someone stupid for not having the same point of view as us.

thehandsome is intitle like everyone else to post on this site.

We may not agree or have the same opinions as him or anybody else but we are not intitled comment on the person but rather on his or her posting. When commenting on a person directly it can be seen as slander.

Mudslinging is a cowardly and weak attempt of trying to get our point of view across.

If soemone has a problem with what is written, then comment on what is written, bring opposing views and facts and let the people decide.

Do you have facts and prouf of what was done during the events mentionned in the post to either prouve or disprouve what was done? If so, please post them to enlighted us.

Last modified:Jun 16

thehandsom

Jun 16

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what is wrong writing these little blurbs?

Paramedic

Jun 16

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the meaning of plunking as:

to pay out meaning paying off to write this on this site!

stumpy

Jun 16

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Paramedic,

What is your comment, is it about what is written or the writer? And plunking, what do you mean? You comment seams more like a statement saying "who are you f´ing to post here"

Looks like you are going straight on the attack here!

Paramedic

Jun 16

I would like to know who you are plunking to be able to write these little blurbs. You sound like either a latent history teacher who no one will listen to and because of this you must inundate this sight with all your prepared lessons, or perhaps a wannabe journalist and no one wants your articles.

Who are you angry at that you need to write all of this on a mundane site where only perhaps 3% can actually understand the moral and pragmatic issues of politics. You should be writing this somewhere else

Last modified:Jun 16

metehan2001

Jun 15

If you want to learn the truth and the real history about Armenian Issue, you can read the scholarly studies written by eminent foreign and Turkish historians on the following link:

http://www.ataa.org/reference/

thehandsom

Jun 14

Si++

Ottoman government says that during WW1 800.000 Armenians lost their lives.

Any source? Where did you get it from?

Acording to the War Crimes Committee formed by the Ottoman Interior Ministry after the war under the direction of Mustafa Arif Deymer, the number of Armenian victims was 800,000 (Vakit newspaper, March 15, 1919). The Army Chief of Staff indicated in a 1928 document that ?The Eastern Provinces of Anatolia lost 500,000 Moslems during the war; another 800,000 Armenians and 200,000 Greeks died due to massacres and deportations.? (Hikmet Bayur, Turk Inkilap Tarihi, v. 3, part 4, Ankara, Turk Tarih Kurumu Yayinlari, 1991, page 787).

Last modified:Jun 14

si++

Jun 12

Hansom,

Is this the last of your series or are you going to continue?

The all 3 so far do not seem complete to me.

Your start was not OK. I don´t think you have covered all the reasons which lead to those tragic event.

And what is your conclusion? Was it a genocide or not (in your opinion)? I think you are aware of the UN definition 1948 for genocide, right? Be clear.

si++

Jun 12

Hansom said:

"ps..I remember si++ was saying that no Ottoman officials were found guilty in the trials..

But according to the Official Gazette (Takvim-i-Vekayi),No. 3604.

"Their guilt has been determined by a unanimous vote ..... Talaat, Enver, Djemal and Dr. Nazim are sentenced to death" at July 5, 1919.."

I had said:

"Did they know that the courts took place (Malta & Istanbul) and the Ottoman officials were found not guilty? English courts worked hard to find a guilty but no one was found"

I was talking about Malta courts.

Now, if you will cite a gazette of Ottoman Empire -not Turkey- you should also show that they were independent. Many gazettes in 1919 were in British control.

Historians like Justin McCarthy and Gunter Lewy stated that post war courts-martial were a travesty of justice, the findings of these courts were unreliable, interrogations were not legal, the right of defense for the arrested was denied and the presiding officer, when questioning the defendants, often acted more like a prosecutor than like an impartial judge. As Lewy stated, “The legal procedures of Ottoman military courts, including those operating in 1919-20, suffered from serious shortcomings when compared to Western standards of due process of law.” The court did not listen to any testimony during judgment and the decisions were made by relying solely on false witnesses without considering the answers of the defense.

Last modified:Jun 13

si++

Jun 12

Hansom said:

"Some says 100.000, 300.000, 600.000, some says 800.000 lost their lives..

I dont think we will ever learn the correct figure..."

You are correct. Nobody knows and probably will never know how many people lost their lives.

By the way, you haven´t give any figures for the Muslim Ottoman civilians that were massacred by the nationalist Armenian groups during the war years in order to establish an independent Armenian state??

Last modified:Jun 13

Response by thehandsom

Jun 14

I think there is not a proper figure about how many muslims got killed during those years by the armenians..

I remember seeing 529.000 or something like that, but later on I read in some books that some of the values were not adding up (such as in Van, in 1919, the number of muslims killed was more than its muslim population).

And also most of that 500.000 dead happened ´after´ 1915.

But no question of that, in 1919, specially when Russian troops captured Turkish areas, Armenians did the things as bad as what was done to them in 1915..

Last modified:Jun 14

si++

Jun 12

Hansom said:

Ottoman government says that during WW1 800.000 Armenians lost their lives.

Any source? Where did you get it from?

metehan2001

Jun 12

Dear users, thehandsom repeats the Armenians´ views and false claims here. If you read through his writings, you will see that all of them are one sided. In fact, his aim is to create an cruel image on Turks and Turkish history. As you see, he never mentions the names of any serious studies and worthwhile articles, reports or books written by foreign and Turkish scholars.

If you want to learn truth and the real history about Armenian Issue, you can read the scholarly studies written by eminent foreign and Turkish historians about the "Issue" on the following link:

http://www.ataa.org/reference/

goyukum,

she said in the chat room to go eat twinkies, a half hidden comment to say go eat yourself to death.  if you say I am a drama queen fine with me but spritzer will have to learn how to play nice with others.  she is a big bully and has shown her true color by roughing people up verbally but when people stand up to her she get offended. 

frankly I do not have any more time or energy to deal with her.  I was an aquantance of her through the TC chat room but hey she killed her own dog by acting the way she has acted.

have I EVER insulted you or any other on this site?  I don´t think so!  I got in one little spat with a user but appoligized to that user privatly, turned out it was a missunderstanding.  But, spritzer in my book lost all credibilety when she lashed out not just at me but at everyone that has oposing views to her own.

so think what you want I do not care and I am not as easely offended as spirtzer or others.  that is soemthing i learned at a very early age along with respect for others

by the way goyukum freedome of speech is for everyone not just a select few, so I will say to you what I said to spritzer, eat your own dog food, it´s means put into practice what you preach!

you speak of freedome of speach but it seems that for you the definition of freedome of speach is acceptable only if the opinions agree with yours!

good job!

 What authority gives you such a right to talk to me like this way?

seems to be the same authority that give you the right to speak to me in the way you do.

I am just speaking to you in the same way you speak to me.

For crying out loud gokuyum get over yourself!   She explained what the expression meant - she´s not calling you a dog!  

I have been never rude like you. You are not an innocent victim. Your rude words prove it.

I was just speaking to you in the same manner you spoke to me.

What? Am I to stand there and let you speak to me like that? 

Some women actually stand up and defend themselves!

If you think I am rude it is your opinion and you are intitle to it!

stumpy and lady in red you dont deserve my answers. Improve yourselves and come back again. I agree spritzer about you.

...And you say we are rude!  What? We are to pay for the fact that spritzer got deleted not once but twice?

Sheesh she is no mother Theressa and with your latest comment you just proved that you are no better than anyone of us!

I never called you a dog but you call me and lady in red a two headed dog sh****g everywhere!

Well I rather be a dog than a hypocrite!

well I see you edited your post!

nice going!

Two headed dog is mythical animal from her shit flowers opens. And i didnt mean a bad thing. I wanted to say your words are like flowers. OK?

well diffrent culture here so the interpretation is diffrent!

Gokuyum - who do you think you are talking to me like this?  Improve myself????   Most people seem to find me quite alright as I am thank you very much, apart from you and your little ´gang´.

I didn´t open this topic for you to resume your fight; I´m just trying to understand the real reason of locking up the comments of a column !

I think it was probably locked because the latest comments - the ones gokuyum saved for some reason - really had nothing to do with the column in question - just turned into a general slanging match. .  And, in case you didn´t realise, the right to disable comments has always been there for every column.

I´m off to improve myself!

Right to disable comments for a column? Whose is this right and who recognizes it?

Right of the columnist. You are free to write your own columns as well and then disable comments if you wish.

And it appears that it was done after spritzer returned as Paramedic and began to attack and swear again at everyone who disagrees with her.

Same thing with disabling comments; when comments disagree with you!

I am not defending that decision, I have explained to you what I thought seemed to be the reason (you said that that´s what you asked for!).

However, again... it appears that the comments were not disabled because they disagreed with the columnist, but because they were nasty personal attacks!

The address of my reprimand were actually NOT you, catwoman. Anyway...

What I don´t understand is; if this is a Turkish Learning website, why do administrators allow such column about that kind of sensitive issues?

Can´t these people see how serious these issues are? In my opinion, nearby deleting the accounts of users, admins MUST ban such discussions!

Sorry; as a teenager who has been living in Türkiye for long-life, I don´t want to see such issues to be told and commented by people who actually don´t have any idea!

thx

turkishcobra //

turkishcobra,

and what would that be?

Being forbidden to learn your native tongue in school?

Having to hide the fact that your native tongue is diffrent from the others?

Being beaten up because you do not speak the same language as the others,

and then when you learn the language and no one can tell what your native tongue is,

you get beaten up and looked down apon by your native people.

so you end up being treated like a trator by your people because you learned the ways of the others.

I have an idea of what both sides are going through.

Mind you I have not lived the conflicts from your country but I do know what the barrel of a riffle feels like against my head.

I also know the feeling of a fist hitting my face and the taste of blood.

All because of my origins.

And yes you are right, I do not know what is going on in your country but I can empathise.

I usually do not comment on such matters because my knowledge of what is going on is not that well versed and it is only what I see in the news, which is not much.

I just read and try to understand both sides.

But when I see people, who live in my country and they think they know exactly what is going and insult people who are actually living it, that I have difficulty with.

Maybe I should have kept my mouth shut and let the discution go on as it was.

But that would have also meant that others should have kept their mouths shut also.

Like I said, I do not know what is truelly going on in your country but I can empathise.

Stumpy; are you sure that you have read my last text carefully?

I just said that I didn´t want to see discussions about sensitive issues of Turkish public in this website, isn´t it too natural?

You expect people to show you respect, yes, it is your natural right. But what about showing respect to sensibilities of other people?

I´m not defending anyone. I´m defendin my own sensibilities, okay?

Can someone please tell me what did thehandsom´s column do but creating problem and provocating people?

This what I´m trying to tell; do not let unsolvable discussions to break out in this room! This is Turkish Language Class; not Turkish History Class or Turkish Public/International Relations Class or Politics Class!

thx

turkishcobra //

ah never mind, sorry offended you are anyone else in that matter.

and I was just pointing out that there are conflicts and issues in other countries assides from Turkey and that they we are more similiar than you think.

but like you say this is a Trukish language site

so iyi geceler

Just trying to end the discussion, stumpy.

Just a little understanding...

What´s going on here? What´s happening? Shall and should I attack or defend someone?

no need to gezegen

Ok, as you wish... I rarely make such offers, and once I make one, I never make the second.

no need I think I will just go to live mocha to practice my lessons, thanks for the offer all the same

poor gokuyum and turkishcobra, you two are too easy for them...you´d better shut up and get back to translation section.

Yes - we are too easy for them... How dare I forget it! Deleting account is very famous nowadays; just takes seconds to press the button!

 I don´t need to deal with them. I met here with spritzer. And it is enough for me. I have no reasons to stay here. But i like helping people and receiving thanks. So i will go on helping them until admins kick me out. Nobody here pays me money or something. I also don´t have a contract with TC. The gang members are also happy. Most of them never translate but always talk and delete us. They are also not democratic. So everything seems fine according to our standards. We couldn´t do it please conquer this site for us.First I will support you and then stab you in the back. Have a nice day.

If you are deleted you are lucky...what about being run over by a bulldozer?(not one but at least 3)

 This is after all, a forum in internet...you take it more seriously...yes, there is a small group here that enjoy throwing around personal insults...and that they hold the power in their hands...(this is what annoys you most with the forum)...but isn´t it the same anywhere else?   

My god what a bunch of whiners!!! 

If you think it´s so easy to run a website by all means.....go start one of your own and then you can try to deal with all the different personalities and crybabies!  You can run it however you like.  Ouuuhhhh.....you know what...you could even have limited membership so people who have differing opinions are denied access!!!  You could all be one big happy family who all have the same brain! 

People push boundries, they disagree, they provoke, and yes.....people get deleted.  So freakin what?   They weren´t executed for god´s sake!  Get over it! 

Agreed.  I find this in the workplace too.  People are always ready to criticise management decisions.  Of course there are times when this is valid, but there are always those who make a career out of complaining.  My response is often to say that management isn´t an easy job, much easier to criticise decisions than make them.

The forum needs colour with regard to views and personalities.

Sorry to go off topic a little but, given the recent arguments on the site (I´m whispering because I don´t want it to all start up again just yet), I would like to say there is a young member here that I feel is a credit to his generation and country, in the way he has conducted himself.  Turkishcobra! 

What a hard worker he is and what a great example of behaviour he sets to everyone here.  Some of his older compatriots take note! 

Debate is natural and the forum would be colourless without it.  I guess it´s the manner in which we conduct our argument that is the issue (note to self ). 

peacetrain

I see, peacetrain, you have found someone else, called cobra and you don´t love me anymore! Fine! I couldn´t care less! Please send me my all love-letters back!

+ 1,2

 Girleegirl running a site can be difficult. But what about translating a text? Sometimes it can be a nightmare translating a text. And I am translating here a lot of texts. I endeavor without expecting anything more than a thank you and a little respect. But what are you doing? You try to mock me and support admins who deleted my best friend. I lose my enthusiasm because of people like you. Yes they administer this site but I translate texts freely. They are not my bosses. I can criticize them the way i want.

gokuyum, with all due respect for your translating, I don´t get paid anything to read thru forum after forum of the same people complaining, regularly getting cursed at and having to settle disagreements.  I agreed to be an administrator of this site because I love it and have been here many years.  I have seen many friends come and go but I have still remained and always enjoyed it.  I occasionally find new friends to share the features of this site with.  I wish the same for you.  Hopefully, the individuals that you translate for appreciate your time and effort.    

 Oh excuse me elisabeth.By reading my comments and answering them you are at least doing something useful. You could be bored by doing nothing here but provoking and kicking people out. But I want to remind you don´t have to read and answer them. You can go on provoking and kicking people out if that pleases you. I have no objection. Have a nice day.

We know you translate a lot of texts as you are constantly reminding us.  May I remind you that Angel_of_Death, MarioninTurkey, Si++, Gezegen (or whoever he is choosing to be at the time!), Turkish Cobra (bless him!), Scalpel, Dilliduduk, Metehan2001, harpoon, ikicihan, Merih and thehandsom (gosh yes, he doesn´t just ´debate!) were all doing translations long before you arrived and still are (despite the majority of them having full-time jobs and most likely families to bring up).  There are more I´m sure but these were the people who sprung to mind as being very good translators.  They would probably do more if you didn´t get in there first.

As for your comment ´they are not my bosses I can criticise them the way I want´ - fair point, in fact even if they were your bosses you can do that.  However, you can be sure they won´t be replying to you in the manner your ´best friend´ replied to them. 

This post made me really angry. As I said above, you seem to have styled yourself Turkish Class´s No.1 translator and feel that everyone should be grateful for YOUR presence.  I am sure your translations are much appreciated and you certainly do a great number of them - presumably because you have a lot of spare time on your hands and it´s also good practice for you - so probably not totally altruistic.  

However, you have been on this site for 4 months - quite a young member really to be telling admins and the owner of the site how they should be running it.  Elisabeth has a full-time job and a family to look after but kindly agreed to give up some of her ´spare time´ (hmm....I can´t remember having much of that when I was working full-time and bringing up a family!) to keep an eye on the running of the site.  How insulting you are to say she spends her time provoking people and kicking them out. .  I suppose you are referring back to the photo incident that got spritzer´s knickers into such a twist. Problem is - as new members you had absolutely no idea about the background behind that photo and spritzer chose to let it escalate into something completely out of proportion, (I know you think I´m a psychopath for saying this - you already told me)turning it into an attack on the site owner.

Frankly, I´m not sure why you want to be here at all, given the comments about the site you make on in the first few lines of your profile.

Administration system in this room reminds me the Empire-style administrating of middle ages from history lessons

Would that be the American Empire, the Dutch Empire or the Polish Empire???  

 OK fine, gokuyum, I take it back.  Sorry to have "provoked" you with my remarks about people being grateful for your contribution to this site in spite of your terrible attitude. I was wrong for trying to reason with you...I see that now.  Anyway, I haven´t "kicked" one person off of this site.  (I have only been an adminstrator for 2 months actually.)  Despite being called names (by you and your gang) and doing a thankless job, I have never been rude to you (unless you think my very presence on this forum is enough provocation for you to be rude to me.)  Anyway, I see now that you are not someone I need to waste my time on.  Sorry to offend you by pointing out your contributions.  It will never happen again. 

Ok go on talking and deleting people. I will go on translating and helping people. I also want to say I appreciate other translators and I don´t claim I am the best of them. Maybe I am the worst of them. But at least i am trying to do positive things like helping people. But there are some people here that their only job is doing negative things like provoking and deleting people. Some of the translators see this and they also criticize you. Look at also scalpel´s and turkish cobra´s criticisms. You are administrating this site undemocratically and some people criticize. Instead of correcting your behaviors you are attacking people blaming them of being ungrateful. You can´t stand any criticism. So please let me alone and don´t bother me. (By the way i will continue to criticize you until you change this undemocratic administration to a democratic one.)

I think this site is democratic - your problem is that it is not Gokuyumcratic or Spritzercratic. here everybody is free to express their opinions. You don´t have to like them which apparently is your biggest issue. Just so you know, democratic means respecting all points of view, even if you don´t agree with them. It doesn´t mean insulting people because they post something you don´t like.

The Admins and mods here are doing a great job and I admire them for trying to explain their decisions although they do not need to do that. I have no idea what other forums you use, but from what I´ve observed, most of discussion boards are more strict when it comes to moderation and it´s not allowed to question mods decisions. Look what´s going on here - you´ve been moaning and whinging about your friend´s deletion and the mods are still taking time to reply to you instead of deleting your posts. Ok, we get it - your not happy. now get over it!

 Wow you sound like they should have administrated this site with an iron fist and i should be grateful because they are not doing this. This is a slave logic. Don´t expect me such an unworthy obedience. I am not like you.

Why do some people behave as I have to "choose my side" when I object something? Yes, once I called this website "anti-democtratic" !

Does it mean I am Gokuyumratic or Spritzeratic or whatever is it? What a nonsense this is! My reaction was personal and didn´t defend anyone! This is your logic and you show it; don´t behave people as if they are part of a "side".

With Respects,

turkishcobra

Is it a slave logic to enjoy a site where everyone´s entitled to their opinion instead of being bullied by folks who believe theirs is the only way? If so, count me in And what kind of obedience are you talking to? You do realise it´s the Internet, not an alternative universe, or alter-life? It´s a website, there are bazillion other websites and it´s up to you to visit them or not. You like a website, you read it, you don´t like it, you´re free to go and not even bother to wave bye-bye.

What I like about this one is that there are lots of people whose sense of humour, opinions and points of view are different from mine and they are still free to express them. You don´t like it and this is where we differ. You want this website to be run with more censorship - I don´t. I think everything goes as long as you keep your language civilised.

And you misunderstood me, I meant other sites are run more strictly, which you fail to notice and which I like about it. I wouldn´t like to see this one give in to bullies like your friend This site gives you lots of freedom of expression and you get offended when people use this right. You sound illogical

 There can be many sites but i have been here for three months and i have friends here. And i labored to this site. I want only a fair administration. You say spritzer is a bully. Why? Because she defended those poor women wearing burkas against their will but just to survive in Afghanistan. Your admins made fun of them. Because they are perfect westerners and those poor women are primitive creatures trying to get education. This made spritzer mad. Because she was in Afghanistan and witnessed how men treated these women so badly. This misbehaviour effected spritzer badly. And when she saw such a picture with a mocking title in the profile of elisabeth she warned her to be more responsible because she was an admin from now on. But elisabeth as being such a wonderful creature refused her and started to mock and provoke her with her gang members and finally deleted her. So who is bully here? According to you, admins are people who have a great sense of humor, but according to me they are people like spritzer defined them. If you want to teach me a lesson please become a humanist person and then come back . I have no business with monsters.

 Give it up DD....by gok....´s logic - you don´t translate...therefore you really have no business saying anything here.      

I want to show you a private message about this perfect administration sent me at April 14 way before these arguments without giving sender´s name . Here:

I just wanted to say thank you for your help . Before you came, it was hard to get translations, some people, (even administrators) were rude about translating, and one member even told me, "Why don´t you ask your Turkish friends who wrote it what it means!!" or "seriously, you could have sent them an offline message". All I wanted was translation if someone wanted to do it, you know? If they don´t want to , then they don´t need to look at my posts. So I gave up for a while but I´m happy and grateful for your help, and I really do appreciate your help so much, have a wonderful day/night!  

I think the admins have been always rude.

 I am not here for a picnic like you.

If spritzer is such a great person and is affected by the plythe of women in Afganistan then why did she turn around on another posting and "attack" a fellow member?  By asking who the member was "plunking" it was being interpreted as who are you sleeping with to post on this site!

Basicly if anyone can "dish it out" they should be able to take.  It is a two way street! 

You say: "My motto is Write first, think later" maybe you should think first then write later!

 What´s wrong with a good picnic! 

I would wonder why you are so interested in my reason for being here.  According to you only people who translate should be here? (and what business it is of yours what reasons people have for membership!!!! )

So what about the people you translate for?  What contributions are they making?   How many times do you translate the same text over and over for the same people?  Is that a contribution?  Shouldn´t they be LEARNING?  Our thoughts on that use of the site by it´s members varies greatly....and for that I am exceedingly grateful because as long as I know I don´t think like you....I know I am OK! 

You want to be exhaulted for your contributions!  Well I absolutely think that the people that use your services do owe you thanks....but I don´t!!   

Your "proof" is a little underwhelming here.   There is no context to this so-called private message.  There have been people who have demanded translations and used and abused people who didn´t offer translations quickly enough.  

And let´s not forget the little darlings who don´t even bother to try to figure out what the message said themselves...even when they posted requests for similar messages five times before. 

Oh and PS - I think YOU are rude.

There are people in this site learning Turkish. I appreciate them. There are also people here  for chatting. I have also no objection to it. But there is a one kind of people here who trying to seem nice to admins by making extreme comments about everything. Especially about Turkey´s culture, people and policies. They have an orientalist approach to everything about Turkey. They always criticize our culture and people and underestimate them. They always trying to teach us something without knowing anything. These people have a large numbers of posts but nearly all of them useless because they know us only by reading newspapers.And with their stupid comments they provoke us. Some can say they have Turkish friends or husbands.But it seems it isn´t enough because I see insulting comments about women in burkas without realizing their situations. I think their friends and husbands don´t tell them enough about eastern culture and eastern religions. If they told them they would know that instead of insulting poor women they should blame the men who put them into this situation. Instead of defending and supporting those poor women, the women here some of them may be claiming they are modern feminist western women, insult them without knowing anything about them. I have a problem with this kind of people. I have a problem with this kind of people that they are making fun of sad things. I have a problem with this kind of people they don´t have any knowledge. I have a problem with this kind of people that they think they know everything.  At least you should try to be useful or try to learn something. Don´t hinder people trying to do positive things. Try to improve yourselves. I read  only this year 106 books(i have a list of them) about philosophy, western culture, eastern culture, history, Turkish literature, eastern and western literature and about other subjects. But i have never acted like you like i know everything about western or eastern countries and people. I am always trying to improve myself. And i feel myself always deficient. I care about people´s experiences. I care about facts. I don´t mock people who have experiences and telling the facts. I am trying to learn something from them. I always care about writing something with facts. I am always trying to show strong sources when i am talking about something. Yes i wrote my motto as "write first, think later" But this motto performs only to my translations. I wrote it because i am caring so much about my translations and after i translated texts i always checking them for mistakes and thinking about them. I don´t want people to misunderstand something because of my translation. I always modify them. I never let them go. Because i respect people. This motto is some kind of a joke about the numbers of my modifications. But some of you are trying to use this joke about my perfectionism on my translations as a weapon against me. Some of you blame me for having a lot of time. I don´t have a lot of time. I entered two big exams this year and i am also preparing a thesis about Turkish teaching. But i also try to help people. Some says it is not an altruism because I improve my English by translating texts. First of all let me say one thing. I don´t believe such a thing like altruism. I believe human is an egoist creature and everything he/she does for egoist purposes even favors and sacrifices. I believe all actions carry an egoist motive under them. Yes i am improving my English too by translating them but i don´t need to translate them anymore. Because i chat and talk in English with a foreigner friend and it improves my English more than translating texts. So for a long time i am translating texts only for receiving thanks. I want only people´s thanks for my translations. It can be an egoist thing but it doesn´t hurt anybody. But your egoism hurts people. I know we are all egoists creatures but we have to control ourselves. If we can´t control ourselves we can harm people and harming people means harming yourself because every action has a reaction. So here is my philosophy: help people, receive thanks, improve yourself, don´t talk without proofs and support your friends when they are right. Please don´t block the sun and don´t drag me into your darkness. Bye.

 Guess what gokuyum...it´s not your place to judge anyones experiences.  You have no idea what brings people here.  You have no clue about anyone´s experiences with burqas or anything else because you don´t bother to know the people who dare to disagree with you. 

You have taken one persons twisted veiw of some pictures posted on this site and turned it into your own personal trauma.  You are clueless as to the WHYs of things.  You only want to stand your shaky ground and not listen to people who have tried above and beyond to explain their point of view to you (explainations by the way that you are not owed to you or anyone else).  But you only want to hear the words of your "best friend". 

You say you respect people????  That is a joke.  If you had a modicum of respect for anyone here other than yourself and people who see things your way you would have said your peace about poor little spritzymedic and moved on from it.  Your "respect" rings hollow.  You only respect people who cowtow to your antics and sway to your way of seeing things.  This is the real world buddy!   

You want to IMPROVE yourself?  Then learn to control yourself and accept differing opinions like a man and stop your arrogant lecturing about things you don´t like!

i think you are a mentally s..k person lacking empathy. go get help and dont bother me anymore.end of discussion.

Surely, someone  is over estimating himself and under estimating the others. That is what makes  people ´arrogant´.

I think, sometimes, even some arrogant people might be tolerable as long as they fill it with knowledge. But if the lack of knowledge is so obvious,  it JUST does not go very well..

And surely, according to some people, if you aren´t thinking like them, then you are "ignorant"

Declaring other people "arrogant" because of thinking they are lack of knowledge is the peak of "arrogancy".

Interesting...

I dont think you understood what I was saying !!!

checkmate!

Ha ha. You did not understand either!!

If two people "did not understand" what you said, then problem is at you.

So, you deserve this icon >

I dont think you should be  insisting on it.. 

You, checkmate brothers,  both really missed the point..  Ha ha 

OK, thehandsom, ok...

Who cares to be checkmated by you?? Discussing, or trying to discuss with you is #1 factor to waste time...

So, ending that discussion in my own.

Easy come!

 Sorry sweet pea but you don´t get to tell me what to do.  A perfect example of your arrogance. I don´t agree with you so I am mentally sick?  You can´t respond to the points of my comments so instead you result this?  How very respectful, controlled and mature of you! 

Too bad you don´t mean it when you say "end of disccusion" though! 

Ha ha..

You concentrate a bit more ´what is written what is not´ in the future, if you want to be taken more seriously.. OK?  

 You can never talk to this kind of person, GG.  He is the type of man who blames a victim of abuse for provoking the abuser.  His friend who he defends so vehemently belittled a member for having a heart condition.  There is no reasoning with this type of person.  They are incapable of sympathetic understanding or compassion.  They disguise their intolerance with rhetoric about how EVERYONE else misunderstands them.  Give up GG....you are beating a dead horse.

theH, stop hemming and hawing and just accept: arrogancy is your best weapon and it is in every post of yours.

Yeah yeah..

You dont know the subjects; you dont search; dont read; you come here and keep telling people what was fed to you then, when  the truth is presented to you..You all go ´Ahhhhh.. You arrogant!!´  

Yeah yeah.. Dont blame me for your shortcomings!!

 You must control your anger before it controls you. Come back and apologize to her.

HAHAHAAAAHHAAA! you are funny!  why don´t you go ahead and tell me what else you know about me? What is my height,for example, what is my weight, what is my fav meal, what is the last movie I watched?

Oh, now I get what kind of people they are. Plus, it´s hard to expect somebody whose membership on the site is so new to read between the lines...Still, most people would ask instead of attack, not to mention judge other people. Well, dogs bark but the caravan moves on

When I open  the article page discussed in this thread, I cannot read the comments??

Whatta f*&# is this?? I see my name mentioned in it saying something without quoting anything. I explained what I said inthe comments section now they are gone?

I don´t understand it. I spent some time on it for answering. This is like stealing my time and where is the right to defend yourself?

Geezzz..

Ok.. Fine.. I have put the comments back..

I disabled them before,  because of arguments unrelated to the topic..

p.s don´t let my applause make you think I agree with anything you wrote in your column

I have been away for a while, coming and going cos´ I am busy, but I thought I would take some time out while Brazil play Portugal and read what I thought might be an interesting thread which incidentally bears no resemblance to its title.

Sadly I am as bored with this thread as I am with the match....

Why would a thread entitled ´Disabling Comments for Columns´ be interesting?  You must have been very bored

 True!  But I was tempted in by the second post...... oh well Brazil v Portugal 0 - 0