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Kurd-free Turkey?
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10.       lemon
1374 posts
 29 Jul 2010 Thu 06:10 am

I have to agree with Vineyards here. Enough is enough. I think everyone is tired with these endless discussions over the same issues. With such activities you will make even your friends hate your actions that are not necessarily wrong. Take a break, man!

11.       si++
3785 posts
 29 Jul 2010 Thu 11:22 am

 

Quoting barba_mama

They, us, this, that. If you didn´t wonder if somebody was a Kurd, a Turk, Laz, Arab, or whatever before, then you shouldn´t wonder the same now. It´s not possible anymore, unfortunately. It´s counter productive, just like bringing the discussions about PKK up so much that even Apo himself would get bored by it.

By the way, I think it´s also very strange to address the Kurds as "they" as if it is one group of stone throwing people. Not all Kurds are PKK members. Yes it´scorrect, absolutely but the perception now is that Kurds=PKK and it´s getting widespread.Most Kurds are your co-workers, friends, etc., who contribute to Turkish society in a normal way. Viewing the Kurds as "them" is only causing the ´good´ Kurds to have to deal with racism. This racism will in turn bring more people to PKK, making the circle complete. Yes exactly this is what is happening now. And it seems to me that it´s what PKK want to accomplish and they are getting what they want. If you want, hate PKK. Don´t hate Kurds.

 

We just saw the sparks of a civil war between Turks and Kurds where 4 policemen had been killed by PKK. Turks got organised in big numbers and attacked the buildings believed to be owned by Kurds and BDP (the Kurdish party) office. This is very serious. It may go out of control next time or the other.

 

12.       si++
3785 posts
 29 Jul 2010 Thu 11:24 am

 

Quoting lemon

I have to agree with Vineyards here. Enough is enough. I think everyone is tired with these endless discussions over the same issues. With such activities you will make even your friends hate your actions that are not necessarily wrong. Take a break, man!

 

Good morning lemon, how are you doing?

13.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 29 Jul 2010 Thu 11:31 am

 

Quoting lemon

I have to agree with Vineyards here. Enough is enough. I think everyone is tired with these endless discussions over the same issues. With such activities you will make even your friends hate your actions that are not necessarily wrong. Take a break, man!

 

I am simply "rejecting" what you are saying..

When I think my country is at the border of descending into a civil war, I dont wish to write about pandas...

If I can prevent one person to be aware of what is coming or might come and prevent that person taking a knife and attacking Kurds or a Kurds attacking a Turk I will consider myself successful. Even if it does not happen, I will think ´I did everything I could´. 

That purpose is more important to me keeping friends or if the ´friends´ will  hate me for that, that is entirely their business...

That is as simple as that!!

As one of my friends mentioned it some where else  as " we could have prevented, can we do it now?" . That friend was referring to the incident, my country´s ´racist/fascist party´ organised 32 years ago..

Maras incident..   In 1978 the same party which is trying to create civil war now, MHP, -the party my country men  could NOT condemn their actions HERE as they are our own racists- organised, attacked and killed many alevi  people because they were simply alevis.. They killed  hundreds!!! Many were hacked to death!! Children/women/men!!  Now they are trying to do the same!!! 

So, coming back to your post: I am sorry but I am rejecting it..

14.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 29 Jul 2010 Thu 01:19 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

When I think my country is at the border of descending into a civil war, I dont wish to write about pandas...

If I can prevent one person to be aware of what is coming or might come and prevent that person taking a knife and attacking Kurds or a Kurds attacking a Turk I will consider myself successful. Even if it does not happen, I will think ´I did everything I could´. 

That purpose is more important to me keeping friends or if the ´friends´ will  hate me for that, that is entirely their business...

H,

Do you really believe you are making some kind of personal sacrifice for the good of your homeland?  Your sentiment may be admirable, but I´m seriously worried that some will see you as a budding megalomaniac.

Vineyards muses that people come here to discuss and hopefully find some convergence of opinions . . . well maybe they do, but every so often the "calm" is shattered by the storm that is YOU!  I´m not talking about your political bent or ideals, I´m talking about your tactics.  Your tactics are counterproductive, if you did but know it.  That´s a shame too because non Turks like me could learn a great deal from you and your political counterparts.  YES, they must shoulder some of the responsibility for the way the threads descend into mayhem, but, more often than not YOU start these fights. You whip yourself and others into a frenzy. Result? Divergence

You claimed recently that people should respect the opinions of others.  It seems to me you want people to respect your opinions but where is the respect when you accuse people of ignorance, of not reading?  I think you enjoy the debates and that´s why you always come back for more.  It is precisely because your "adversaries" here are not ignorant and do read, that you enjoy the meaty debates.  If they were not interested in Turkish politics, if they did not read, if they were ignorant, you would not keep coming back for more.  You relish those debates . . . and that´s fine, so long as you don´t flame. They may not agree with your "proofs" and they may put forward "proofs" of their own and vice versa . . . that doesn´t give you the right to insult their intelligence the way you do.  Of course you are insulted too . . . WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? (actually I think you DO expect it . . . you WANT it).

I know exactly what your response will be too, because your activity cycle here is very predictable.

I´ve tried to think of an oxymoron to describe you . . . in the end I´ve decided that you are a living, breathing oxymoron in your own right.

You say you have done all you can. Are you sure about that?  If you are so passionate/anguished/desperate/worried/angry/fired up about Turkey´s future, why not take steps to fulfill your destiny (now you´ve got me doing it {#emotions_dlg.rant}) ?  Take up the cudgel. Perhaps your place is in Turkey, on the political stage.  Perhaps you are a big fish in this relatively small cyber pool that is TLC. Perhaps your talents are wasted here. Perhaps you are Turkey´s missing link. I´m serious, is there really anything to stop you? 

Sacrifice H, sacrifice . . .

 

 

 



Edited (7/29/2010) by peacetrain [divergence]

oeince and vineyards liked this message
15.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 29 Jul 2010 Thu 02:43 pm

 

Quoting peacetrain

 

H,

Do you really believe you are making some kind of personal sacrifice for the good of your homeland?  Your sentiment may be admirable, but I´m seriously worried that some will see you as a budding megalomaniac.

Vineyards muses that people come here to discuss and hopefully find some convergence of opinions . . . well maybe they do, but every so often the "calm" is shattered by the storm that is YOU!  I´m not talking about your political bent or ideals, I´m talking about your tactics.  Your tactics are counterproductive, if you did but know it.  That´s a shame too because non Turks like me could learn a great deal from you and your political counterparts.  YES, they must shoulder some of the responsibility for the way the threads descend into mayhem, but, more often than not YOU start these fights. You whip yourself and others into a frenzy. Result? Divergence

You claimed recently that people should respect the opinions of others.  It seems to me you want people to respect your opinions but where is the respect when you accuse people of ignorance, of not reading?  I think you enjoy the debates and that´s why you always come back for more.  It is precisely because your "adversaries" here are not ignorant and do read, that you enjoy the meaty debates.  If they were not interested in Turkish politics, if they did not read, if they were ignorant, you would not keep coming back for more.  You relish those debates . . . and that´s fine, so long as you don´t flame. They may not agree with your "proofs" and they may put forward "proofs" of their own and vice versa . . . that doesn´t give you the right to insult their intelligence the way you do.  Of course you are insulted too . . . WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? (actually I think you DO expect it . . . you WANT it).

I know exactly what your response will be too, because your activity cycle here is very predictable.

I´ve tried to think of an oxymoron to describe you . . . in the end I´ve decided that you are a living, breathing oxymoron in your own right.

You say you have done all you can. Are you sure about that?  If you are so passionate/anguished/desperate/worried/angry/fired up about Turkey´s future, why not take steps to fulfill your destiny (now you´ve got me doing it {#emotions_dlg.rant}) ?  Take up the cudgel. Perhaps your place is in Turkey, on the political stage.  Perhaps you are a big fish in this relatively small cyber pool that is TLC. Perhaps your talents are wasted here. Perhaps you are Turkey´s missing link. I´m serious, is there really anything to stop you? 

Sacrifice H, sacrifice . . .

 

 

 

 

I dont think it is worth to reply..

I dont think "calm" is that important for me when certain people look that the incidents through their "....-bans" glasses.

I dont think convergence of opinions will be always be a good thing with those people wearing those glasses..

I will post the subjects I believe is important. And yes..I have that sentiment and I think it is nothing to do with being a megalomaniac.. 

Dont even go into level of swearing i get here..I only respond to very little amount..

So dont play that game.. Some times, there are at least 4/5 people swear at me here.. At the same time.. for what? just because I post something remind what the racism is..

Why do you want to stop me anyway?? why? and how can you explain ´stopping somebody expressing their opinions´ to your students for example?

Anyway..

I dont really CARE what you think and ´ahh calm is shuttered. and it is all you.´ . I dont really value that calm either..

I would post the subject regarding racism/KKK and blacks  if I was an American, I would be against nazis if i was in 1945 and a German.   

As I said.. I will post whatever I believe is important..

 



Edited (7/29/2010) by thehandsom

16.       vineyards
1954 posts
 29 Jul 2010 Thu 03:18 pm

What do you mean by race-bans? Do you imply we are a bunch of racists here? I am pretty sure this is your meaning. So, please remove that phrase or I will delete it myself.

17.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 29 Jul 2010 Thu 03:24 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

What do you mean by race-bans? Do you imply we are a bunch of racists here? I am pretty sure this is your meaning. So, please remove that phrase or I will delete it myself.

 

really?

18.       vineyards
1954 posts
 29 Jul 2010 Thu 03:27 pm

Thank you for editing.

19.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 29 Jul 2010 Thu 03:30 pm

 

Quoting lemon

 

 

You be careful. This is what exactly some europeans think about muslims who are in europe. So before you say A always have an option B.

To me you sound like an elitist (illuminati). They will measure you by your measures. We had some fellows in the past in europe who decided that non-aryan nations were useless therefore were to be killed.

 

There is a definition of those type of Europeans here.

Most of the time they are called racists!!!!

 

20.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 29 Jul 2010 Thu 06:22 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

I dont think it is worth to reply..

I dont think "calm" is that important for me when certain people look that the incidents through their "....-bans" glasses.

I dont think convergence of opinions will be always be a good thing with those people wearing those glasses..

I will post the subjects I believe is important. And yes..I have that sentiment and I think it is nothing to do with being a megalomaniac.. 

Dont even go into level of swearing i get here..I only respond to very little amount..Predictable . . . all part of your cycle.

So dont play that game.. Some times, there are at least 4/5 people swear at me here.. At the same time.. for what? just because I post something remind what the racism is.. aah diddums!

Why do you want to stop me anyway?? why? and how can you explain ´stopping somebody expressing their opinions´ to your students for example?

Anyway..

I dont really CARE what you think and ´ahh calm is shuttered. and it is all you.´ . I dont really value that calm either..

I would post the subject regarding racism/KKK and blacks  if I was an American, I would be against nazis if i was in 1945 and a German.   

As I said.. I will post whatever I believe is important..

 

 

I rest my case . . . predictable and a perfect example of a walking, living, breathing oxymoron. For something not worth a reply, you certainly gave it your time.

When I said "is there anything to stop you?" I meant is there anything stopping you from taking your place in the world of politics in Turkey?  Seriously, what is there to stop you from doing so?

So . . . I never mentioned anything about stopping you from speaking, quite the contrary.

btw If you could just refrain from uttering "racist" , "racism"  etc.  there may be hope for a cure for your Tourette´s. I mentioned your tactics earlier, but sometimes you only have the tic .

That´s me done here. I have to go . . . places to go, people to see, children to gag .. .

 

 

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