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About Armenian Issue
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20.       si++
3785 posts
 19 Apr 2011 Tue 05:44 pm

There is some discussion going on here recently. For those who have not noticed it, I´ll take the liberty to copy paste some of it here:


Mr.Thunder said:

Those numbers are not so important. Orhanis Pamukyan is not a historian either. He wants to become popular by creating a sensation in the media. His skills as a novelist are also very limited. They gave him that Nobel Prize for the political reasons only. He is full of hot air. There are serious charges of plagiarism against him. In fact they are proven by Historian Murat Bardakçı.

See his article about the plagiarist Orhanis Pamukyan Effendi


The important point is what had really happened in 1915 and why they (the western powers) heat up this issue.

Armenians were not innocent they commited vile atrocities in Eastern Anatolia. Ethnic cleansing was their only method to become a majority in the East of Turkey in order to be able to establish their "Greater Armenia".

When the Russians invaded Eastern Anatolia in WW I the Armenian militia made ethnic cleansing of civilians. And even the Russian commander complained to his headquarters in Russia about the Armenian barbarism. I read the printed version of his reports taken from the Russian archives. (Russian original documents, with Turkish and english translations in one book published by the Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs)

See what a supporter of the Armenians against Turks and an eyewitness to the events wrote then in 1915 !!

click here for Bolhovitinov´s report.


And some excerpts from video from that link:


England intentionally incited Armenians to violence in eastern Anatolia to impede the formation of an alliance between Czarist Russia and the Ottomans that would create a new axis of power.

Russian Brgader General Bolhovitinov 1915


Armenian volunteer regiments motivated by ethnic hatred vicously massacred Ottoman Muslims

from Bolhovitinov’s Report



Before the British induced conflict, Kurds, Turks and Armenians lived together in peace.

from Bolhovitinov’s Report


European diplomacy pushed the idea of the formation of an independent Armenia.

from Bolhovitinov’s Report


Europe supported rebellion and violence by Armenian guerillas and used Armenian intellectuals to influence public opinion in Europe.

from Bolhovitinov’s Report


The Muslim populace was attacked on every front using every means, both under cover of the staged ‘rebellion’ by Armenian guerilla bands and with propaganda.

from Bolhovitinov’s Report


Activity by the Armenian guerilla bands took the form of terrorism. This terror was not only directed at Muslims, but also against Armenians who did not support their cause.

from Bolhovitinov’s Report


Motivated by racism, Armenian guerilla bands massacred the Muslim population, without regard to age or gender, exterminating entire villages and pillaging all property.

from Bolhovitinov’s Report


Edited (4/19/2011) by si++

newquaker liked this message
21.       si++
3785 posts
 21 Apr 2011 Thu 04:34 pm

What happened to 1.5m Ottoman Armenians?



From the beginning of WW1 to 1921, there were 624.900 Armenians in Ottoman Empire, at least 400.000 in Yerevan Armenia and finally at least 40.000 in Iran. Unfortunately we can not conclude as to how many Ottoman Armenians immigrated to South Russia, Georgia, Egypt, Greece, USA or Europe.

However the most certain thing we get out of all these documents is that the Armenian population which was around 1.6 million before WW1 was at least around 1.1 million after WW1.


Quoted from: here

Elisabeth and newquaker liked this message
22.       si++
3785 posts
 24 Apr 2011 Sun 11:35 am

Ankara’s Ambassador to Washington criticizes Obama on Twitter


April 24, 2011 | 12:35

Turkish Ambassador to Washington Namik Tan criticized U.S. President Barack Obama for his annual April 24 address to Armenian people on Armenian Genocide Remembrance Day.

Tan responded Obama on Twitter, labeling U.S. President’s statement inaccurate, flawed and one-sided political characterization of history.


Source: here

Elisabeth liked this message
23.       si++
3785 posts
 25 Apr 2011 Mon 11:36 am

Turkey denounces Obama’s remarks on 1915 events

Issuing annual remarks for ‘Armenian Remembrance Day,’ US President Barack Obama once again declines to classify the World War I-era killings of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire as ‘genocide,’ yet Turkey still criticized his statement. US Armenians, meanwhile, were angered by the failure to use the term ‘genocide’
US President Barack Obama. AA photo.

US President Barack Obama. AA photo.

Turkey has denounced the U.S. president’s annual statement marking the deaths of Ottoman Armenians in 1915 as “one-sided,” criticizing Barack Obama for issuing the remarks on Turkey’s National Sovereignty day.

"Obama´s statement is one-sided and it reads history from a single perspective,” Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu said Sunday.

“I want to remind everyone that the statement was made on the same day that our nation was marking National Sovereignty day and the 91st anniversary of the national Parliament; it would be better if this had been noticed by the American side," the minister Sunday said in northwestern province of Çanakkale, where he was participating in a joint press conference with his New Zealand counterpart, Murray McCully, to mark the 96th anniversary of the Gallipoli Campaign in World War I.

The U.S. president traditionally releases a statement on April 24, “Armenian Remembrance Day,” but Obama chose to issue his statement this year on April 23, which is marked as National Sovereignty and Children’s Day in Turkey.

“It is saddening that each year this issue pops up and casts a shadow on our relations with the United States. Lots of pain was endured in the Ottoman territories during the break-up of the empire. We would have expected Mr. Obama to also remember the sufferings of Turks back in those days,” Davutoğlu said.

Obama on Saturday called the incidents of 1915 in the Ottoman Empire a "great disaster" or "Meds Yeghern" in Armenian – but he did not term them a “genocide,” greatly angering many American-Armenians.

Davutoğlu said Turkey would continue efforts to ensure that its version of the 1915 events would be fairly remembered. “[Obama’s] statement is unfit historically and it is biased."

"We find these remarks that distort historical truths very problematic and we regret them,” the ministry said in a statement released earlier Sunday before Davutoğlu spoke, adding that the president’s statement reflected concerns about U.S. domestic policy.

“Our expectation from the United States is to facilitate a normalization process between Turkey and Armenia, not hamper it."


Source: here

24.       si++
3785 posts
 01 May 2011 Sun 11:33 am

One of the most active Turkish organizations in United Staes, Young Turks held a protest demonstration at Times Square, New York against Armenian genocide allegations on April 24, which Armenians claim that it is anniversary of so called Armenian genocide.

The protest demonstration took place between 12:00 PM and 5:00 PM on April 24 close to Times Square between 42nd street and 7th avenue in New York.
Stressing that Turkish community in United States should say "No" to Armenian lies in solidarity and be responsible for the national cause, Tekman said that the historical truth about 1915 incidents should be known by whole world. Stating that they came together under the shade of Turkish flag on April 24 to protest genocide allegations.
Tekman said, "Following the adoption of so called Armenian genocide resolution by the Committee of U.S. House, Armenian diaspora gained strength and started to exert more pressure on Turkish community. We could gain permission of New York Police Department for holding the rally despite internal and external efforts to prevent this event.
Azerbaijani, Uzbek, Uyghur, Turcoman and Crimean Turks also supported the prostest demonstration. There were banners as "Say No To So Called Armenian Genocide Allegations" and "Open Archives".

25.       si++
3785 posts
 18 May 2011 Wed 07:23 pm

A balanced website:



Turkish Payroll

Turkish historians have been interviewing villagers in Turkey and researching historical archives of the Ottoman Empire for decades. Their investigation currently suggests that the event labeled as the Armenian Genocide is not a genocide as defined by the United Nations.

The Armenians have always supported the idea of a genocide ever since they lost World War I and the Allies did not approve of their requests in the Paris Peace Conference. After the Jews got reparations for the Holocaust from Germany; Armenians formed lobbying groups in many countries and their organizations such as the Armenian Revolutionary Federation stepped up their pressure to convince world governments to recognize the Armenian Genocide.

Once it became politicized (sometimes into a hate campaign) and Turkish historians increasingly found more evidence of Armenian massacres of Turks, the Turkish government decided to deny this alleged genocide because of lack of evidence and because they are the ones with access to the Ottoman archives.

Thus, Armenians claimed that since they deny the genocide, then they must have committed the genocide because they pointed to the psychology of genocide denial that asserts all perpetrators of genocide deny their crime.

In essence, if person A claims you´re a murderer, and you deny that you murdered anyone. Person A then claims that all murderers deny murders, hence you are truly a murderer. This is a logical fallacy called Begging the Question or circular argument.

To top it off, the Turkish government seeing that Armenians are continuing to convince the world without any evidence, decided it was time to allow all world historians to come to the Ottoman archives in Istanbul and learn the history of previous Ottoman governments. Every year more and more historians come out with new books on the subject, rejecting the idea that this was a genocide.

As a result of the Turkish government´s involvement in the debate, Armenians have started a habit of calling anyone who hints at looking for evidence for the Armenian Genocide as "on the Turkish government´s payroll". They have used it against every single author that has suggested that the Armenian Genocide does not qualify as genocide as declared by the United Nations.

In fact, even writers for this website have been attacked on the grounds that they are paid agents of the Turkish government. If this website or any of its researchers were paid by the Turkish government, then wouldn´t we have advertisement all over the web trying to convince you? Yet we don´t have a single ad. We post articles and our research because we are historians and we believe this subject is an important part of history.

We are not motivated by fame, fortune, nationalism, or a paycheck. We are interested in the integrity of history that propagandists on all sides have trampled.

If Armenians make this claim, then cannot Turks make the claim that they are being funded by the Armenian Revolutionary Federation or the Armenian government?

In fact, the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, has an office in Boston! What is a 100 year old terrorist organization doing in the United States? (This is equivalent to Al Qaeda having an office in NATO nation). The ARF is working to use US taxpayer money to send billions of dollars of aid to Armenia and to stop aid to country´s Armenia hates, such as Azerbaijan and Georgia.

What does Armenia do with more than 2 billion dollars of US taxpayer money over the last few decades? Allow Russia to build more Russian airbases, military bases, and batteries inside Armenia and make more trade deals with Iran (their only friendly neighbor). At least the Russians are getting their money´s worth.

As Americans, we dreamed our tax payer money would be used on Americans or at least on allied nations in their times of need that we know would support us when the time comes. Instead we are funding Armenia´s war and propaganda machine.

In 1992, Armenia launched an unprovoked sneak attack against Azerbaijan (a neighbor and a US ally). Wealthy Armenian lobbyists campaigned and the US Congress cut aid to Azerbaijan and increased aid to the aggressor: Armenia.

Instead of assuming--that just because the Turkish government elected by its people, and for decades (with completely contradicting political parties in power over the years) denying this genocide--is lying or guilty; we should do some research.

Perhaps it´s time we focus our attention to Armenia, a country that keeps its historical archives locked from even their own historians--or how about the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, an organization established to destroy the Ottoman Empire that has offices today in Boston, with its own ARF historical archives also locked.

Elisabeth liked this message
26.       si++
3785 posts
 20 Jun 2011 Mon 08:28 am



The Armenian President has said “reconciliation is impossible before Turkey admits genocide.” He has said that unless Turkey recognises the “Armenian genocide” the rift between the two countries will not close. These are big words indeed. One should pay them the utmost attention.

Before everything else someone should tell Serge Sarkisyan that whatever has happened in 1915, whatever took place before or afterwards is no business of the Armenian state. For what took place then happened within the Ottoman State. There was no Armenia back then. Serge Sarkisyan must be unaware of this fact, for otherwise he would not have made the claims he made.

There are other points. Someone should tell Serge Sarkisyan that one does not practice diplomacy by giving interviews to the Moscow News.

Serge Sarkisyan has told the Moscow News “True reconciliation will only happen when Turkey recognises the Armenian Genocide. Reconciliation is impossible before Turkey admits genocide. To think that repairing ties with Turkey means reconciliation is wrong. True reconciliation will only come after repentance.”

One wishes Sarkisyan would say these during negotiations, summit meetings or at least on the phone with his Turkish counterparts. Serge Sarkisyan continued his statement thus: “Of course we will not die of hunger before relations with Turkey are repaired. We do not see “economic benefit” as the fundamental basis for normalising ties with Turkey. Napoleon had said that the geography of a country determines its history. This is geographic fate...”

Geography may be fate. However lack of knowledge is not fate but a mistake. Where lack of knowledge, low output of knowledge and intellectual incapacity is the case, ignorance becomes fate.

For this reason someone must tell Serge Sarkisyan that the prestige of a state or a statesman is measured in the respect he has for those documents which it has undersigned.  The criterion is not messages of loyalty sent to friendly and allied neighbouring states.

What does Serge Sarkisyan think about those people who do not keep the promises they make? What is his opinion on those people who renounce the signatures they put on documents? Knowing the answers would come in very useful for analysis of the Caucasia.


Source: here


If Armenians have real evidence to prove what they are fabricating
relentlessly against Turkish people and the Democratic Republic of
Turkiye, they should go to an internationally recognized court of
justice, like the World Court, or set up an inquiry of honest,
independent and un-biased experts themselves, or cooperate with the
one proposed by the Turkish government (which is still on the table
with $25 million set aside for it) for such inquiry or just shut up.
Armenians are doing none of it. Just because what they are claiming
are just fabricated anti-Turkish lies and hate propaganda and can not
stand an honest, independent and un-biased scrutiny. Somehow Armenians
think and believe that they can fool all the people all the time. They
should realize, this is not possible anymore. Another and more
important reason why Armenians do not want to resolve this issue is
that the anti-Turkish hate propaganda efforts are a multi-billion
dollar industry for them. They do not want to lose such lucrative
business if the issue is settled.

27.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 21 Jun 2011 Tue 10:46 am

Really...multi-billion? You seem to get more and more off-track with this issue. How is claiming there was a genocide giving the Armenians income?

28.       si++
3785 posts
 21 Jun 2011 Tue 11:47 am


Quoting barba_mama

Really...multi-billion? You seem to get more and more off-track with this issue. How is claiming there was a genocide giving the Armenians income?


Their final aim is to make Turkish Republic recognise it and pay them some multi billion dollars as a result.


There is a genocide industry. Armenins are actively working to pursuit that goal. They publish books, campaign everywhere to make parliaments to pass resolutions recognising "so-called" genocide, collect fees from Armenian community to finance their activities, all sorts of activities.

alameda and Elisabeth liked this message
29.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 27 Jul 2011 Wed 03:56 am

I opened this thread and then forgot it.  Only thing I will say about this issue we should forgive each other.

30.       si++
3785 posts
 27 Jul 2011 Wed 12:39 pm

Armenians President´s lead to the Armenian Youth


In response to a student’s question concerning future borders of Armenian state and whether the Western Armenia with the Mount Ararat* will ever be united to Eastern Armenia, the president answered that everything depends on the young generation. Every generation has some goal to achieve, he added.

Current generation defended and liberated a part of Armenian land. If the future generation makes much effort then Armenia will be one of the best states in the world. Generally, the power of the state is not defined through its territory. The state should be modern, secure and prosperous. The Armenian people are able to achieve their goal. And they will if they believe, added President Sargsyan.

Turkey said it is “very irresponsible behavior” to make recommendations to youth and future generation that could provoke animosity and ideology of hatred among nations.

The statement said “at a time when peace attempts have intensified in the region, expressions that the Armenian president did not shunned to use signal that he has no intention for peace.”


* A mountain in the territory of the present Turkish Republic


Source: here

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