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Turkish Translation

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E to T my attempt :-)
(26 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
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10.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 29 Dec 2010 Wed 08:58 pm

"geri iade" can seem you idiotic but it is not. There can be such  semantic shifts in languages. For example serbest means "başı bağlı(dependent)" in Farsi but it is the opposite in Turkish. Also peş means "ön(front)" in Farsi but we use it as "arka(back)". Even if you think  it is idiotic to use them this way you can´t do anything to stop people. Because only people can decide what is proper to use in any language not linguists. If you try to set rules people don´t obey you will create another language; an elite language like Ottoman Turkish. You should accept the language as it is. Language is like a living organism. It grows and changes. Nobody can stop this. Grammer rules also have to change. They are not like ten commandments.



Edited (12/29/2010) by gokuyum
Edited (12/29/2010) by gokuyum

11.       scalpel
1472 posts
 29 Dec 2010 Wed 09:04 pm

I didn´t know you were one of those who use "geri iade". Then you are free to say "örneğin mesela", "nüans farkı", "alternatif seçenek" and so..I wouldn´t mind  that at all...   



Edited (12/29/2010) by scalpel

12.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 29 Dec 2010 Wed 09:11 pm

 

Quoting scalpel

You are free to say "örneğin mesela", "nüans farkı", "alternatif seçenek" and so..I wouldn´t mind  that at all...

 

 It is not important if I say so. It is important if people say so. You can´t do anything. I think people say "nüans farkı" and maybe they will say the others. You have to accept it. Do you have any objection to wrong usage of serbest, peş and many others?



Edited (12/29/2010) by gokuyum [accept]
Edited (12/29/2010) by gokuyum
Edited (12/29/2010) by gokuyum

13.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 29 Dec 2010 Wed 09:17 pm

 

Quoting scalpel

 

 

Tamam, google "geri iade" and see the result: 604.000. Just because it is repeated 604.000 times, doesn´t make it any less idiotic, right? Don´t trust such numbers too much.

When possible, preferring the shortest way is what we all do in any language in the world...but we must not allow the language to be reduced back to such a degree as it was 1000000 years ago,right?

A tiny note: I highly recommend you to read her (Feyza Hepçilingirler,the writer of that text) book with the name "Türkçe Dilbilgisi, Öğretenlere ve Öğrenenlere" before talking about the Turkish Grammar.

 

 I don´t teach Turkish. And I always said I hate grammer. Check my profile. I am not interested in Turkish grammer. I am only interested in literature and philosophy. I can easily accept that I am wrong when I made a mistake. I  said people don´t obey the rule. I haven´t denied such a grammer rule. If people don´t obey the rule, it has to change. It is what I want to say.

14.       zeytinne
596 posts
 29 Dec 2010 Wed 09:50 pm

 What is this "geri iade" ?

15.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 29 Dec 2010 Wed 10:00 pm

 

Quoting zeytinne

 What is this "geri iade" ?

 

 İade is an Arabic word and it means return or give back. When you say "geri iade" you say something like give back back. This seems absurd but foreign words gain different meanings in other languages. When you say "geri iade" in Turkish it makes sense. I guess Turks give a meaning to iade as  "to give " and they use it with "geri (back)". This is a very normal thing. This is called semantic shift.



Edited (12/29/2010) by gokuyum
Edited (12/29/2010) by gokuyum
Edited (12/29/2010) by gokuyum
Edited (12/29/2010) by gokuyum

16.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 29 Dec 2010 Wed 10:09 pm

delete this post



Edited (12/29/2010) by gokuyum
Edited (12/30/2010) by gokuyum
Edited (12/30/2010) by gokuyum
Edited (12/31/2010) by gokuyum

17.       scalpel
1472 posts
 30 Dec 2010 Thu 01:58 pm

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

 

 I don´t teach Turkish. And I always said I hate grammer. Check my profile. I am not interested in Turkish grammer. 

 

Then why you are so fond of replying each and every grammar question that is asked? How would you explain this paradox? 

18.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 30 Dec 2010 Thu 02:05 pm

 

Quoting scalpel

 

 

Then why you are so fond of replying each and every grammar question that is asked? How would you explain this paradox?

 

 I just want to help. If they don´t want me to answer, I will give up answering. By the way thank you for your book advice I will read it.

19.       scalpel
1472 posts
 30 Dec 2010 Thu 02:42 pm

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

 

 It is not important if I say so. It is important if people say so. You can´t do anything. I think people say "nüans farkı" and maybe they will say the others. You have to accept it. Do you have any objection to wrong usage of serbest, peş and many others?

 

You mix the things up quite a lot. There is too a big difference between idiotically using the two words one immediately after another which are of the same meaning (as in geri iade, nüans farkı, örneğin mesela,etc.) and creating a modified meaning to a loanword (as in serbest, münakaşa). Every language is free to do this. For example the English word kiosk is from Turkish köşk (a large stately house;a manor house) and used for a small structure where newspapers are sold or so.

I think we have better options than rough populism to prove that language is a living organismWink

20.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 30 Dec 2010 Thu 03:20 pm

 

Quoting scalpel

 

 

You mix the things up quite a lot. There is too a big difference between idiotically using the two words one immediately after another which are of the same meaning (as in geri iade, nüans farkı, örneğin mesela,etc.) and creating a modified meaning to a loanword (as in serbest, münakaşa). Every language is free to do this. For example the English word kiosk is from Turkish köşk (a large stately house;a manor house) and used for a small structure where newspapers are sold or so.

I think we have better options than rough populism to prove that language is a living organismWink

Even it cause ambiguity to say so you have to accept it as it is if the people use it that way. This can seem you as populism but the opposite approach seems me as elitism. 

 

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