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Dutch approve ban on religious animal slaughter, Muslims, Jews outraged
(68 Messages in 7 pages - View all)
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1.       tunci
7149 posts
 29 Jun 2011 Wed 05:03 pm

Dutch approve ban on religious animal slaughter, Muslims, Jews outraged

28 June 2011, Tuesday / AP, AMSTERDAM

The Dutch parliament passed a bill Tuesday banning the slaughter of livestock without stunning it first, removing an exemption that has allowed Jews and Muslims to butcher animals according to their centuries-old dietary rules.
 

If enacted and enforced, religious groups say observant Jews and Muslims would have to import meat from abroad, stop eating it altogether, or leave the Netherlands.

However, the bill must still pass the Senate, which is unlikely before the summer recess, and the Cabinet said Monday the law may be unenforceable in its current form due in part to ambiguity introduced in a last-minute amendment.

If the Netherlands outlaws procedures that make meat kosher for Jews or halal for Muslims, it will be the second country after New Zealand to do so in recent years. It will join Switzerland, the Scandinavian and Baltic countries, whose bans are mostly traceable to pre-World War II anti-Semitism.

"The Cabinet will give its judgment over the proposed law after it has been treated by both houses," said Deputy Secretary of Economic Affairs and Agriculture Henk Blekers.

The Cabinet will "also look at how it fits with freedom of religion," he said, citing the European Convention on Human Rights.

Lawmaker Marianne Thieme of the Party for the Animals - the world´s first animal rights party to win seats in a national parliament - welcomed the approval of the bill that she had first introduced in 2008, and said she was now prepared to defend it in the Senate.

"It´s a great honor," she said. She has argued that sparing animals needless pain and distress outweighs religious groups´ rights to follow slaughter practices "no longer of our time."

But the threat of a possible ban has led to outcry from Jewish and Muslim groups who say it infringes on their right to freedom of religion.

Around 1 million Muslims live in the Netherlands, mostly immigrants from Turkey and Morocco. The once-strong Jewish community now numbers 40,000-50,000 after more that 70 percent were deported and killed by the Nazis during World War II.

"The Dutch Jewish community is small and the Jewish kosher meat consumption is smaller still, but the impact on our community is deep and large," said a committee of rabbis pleading with parliament not to pass the law in an open letter Tuesday.

"Older Jews are frightened and wonder what the next law will be that limits their religious life. The youth are openly asking whether they still have a future that they can or want to build in the Netherlands."

A solid majority of Dutch voters say they support the ban, and parliament voted for it by a margin of 116 for to 30 against.

Ritual slaughter rules prescribe that animals´ throats must be cut swiftly with a razor-sharp knife while they are still conscious, so that they bleed to death quickly.

Support for the ban came from the political left, which sees ritual slaughter as inhumane, and from the anti-immigration right, which sees it as foreign and barbaric.

Only Christian parties were opposed, arguing the ban undermines the country´s long tradition of religious tolerance.

Centrist parties were initially divided, with many of them loath to lose support of Muslim voters. Last week they introduced an amendment that says ritual slaughterers may still be granted licenses - if they can "prove" that it does not cause animals more pain than stunning.

Science is divided as to whether ritual slaughter does cause more suffering.

The Royal Dutch Veterinary Association says it believes that during "slaughter of cattle while conscious, and to a lesser extent that of sheep, the animals´ well-being is unacceptably damaged."

Other observers, including noted American welfare expert Temple Grandin of Colorado State University, has said animals do not appear to show more distress when a ritual slaughter is conducted properly.

Elbakkali Elkhammar, chairman of the Dutch Council of Imams, said that religious groups should be given the benefit of the doubt.

"There are various opinions about this matter, both from Islamic jurisprudence as medical science, that sometimes approve of other protocols for ritual slaughter and sometimes forbid them," he said in a statement

 

2.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 29 Jun 2011 Wed 05:14 pm

People like to state it as a "ban against religiously slaughtered meat". That is totally not the point. The point is a ban against non-stunned slaughter. It´s not an anti-religion thing, but a anti-animal cruelty thing. By stating it as anti-religious the religious groups make it sound like a discriminating law, which it basically isn´t.

 

I think the rules surrounding religious slaughter were set up to prevent people from eating bad meat. No sick animals, etc. Times have changed since the creations of the major religions, and often times animal welfare has taken a step back (when it comes to animal used for food). However, the ability to slaughter animals after a quick stunning (not with electrical shock as people like to say, but with a bullet-like pin) is one of the few animal welfare improving inventions that we have seen. If we look at the essence of religion, is this really a bad thing?

3.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 29 Jun 2011 Wed 09:11 pm

OK, I hate the thought of animals suffering.  However, regardless of what this bill is disguised as (somehow I don´t think politicians care about animals...they barely care about people!!) it is clearly designed to marginalize certain religious practices.  It is fairly easy to see that the West and the East are engaged in cultural wars.  That is not to say that a country does not have the right to create laws that preserve its own culture, but I think we should call it like it is.   

alameda liked this message
4.       stumpy
638 posts
 29 Jun 2011 Wed 11:15 pm

I would like to know how many of those law makers were raised on an cattle farm?  I was and when it came time for slaughter it was a rule at my house, no playing with the animals, kill it quickly and painlessly and if this meant sticking a knife in the animal´s jugular veine then that is how it was done.

People who torture and mistreat animals prior and during the slaughter process are ignorant fools who have no respect for the food that they are processing, be it for themselves or for the general population.

Imagine what the non christians must think when they hear "this is this is my body...thi is my blood" during eucharist!! They must think we are a bunch of bloody canibals!

 {#emotions_dlg.think}

 

5.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 30 Jun 2011 Thu 01:45 am

I´m not really surprised at Jews and Muslims being outraged by this bill, it sure does make things harder for them unless they decide to turn vegetarian. It´s going to have economic repercussions for halal/kosher butchers in the Cloggieland as well, I reckon some of them may go to the wall because of the ban. On the other hand, I do find slaughtering animals without stunning them first cruel, so my personal feeling would be that the ban has solid foundations.

I suppose halal/kosher meat is going to have to be imported now? German and French butchers must be delighted at the thought of taking over the Dutch market...

6.       stumpy
638 posts
 30 Jun 2011 Thu 02:18 am

I am not Muslim or Jewish and I am outraged by this law.  If the meats are clearly labeled Halal/Kosher then let them have their meats and let the consumer chose.  Are we as humans so brain dead that we cannot chose what we want.  I would rather buy my meat from a halal shop then from big chain markets that gets their meats from slaughter houses who just "crank" out the meat.

Modern slaughter houses are not the humain, painless and stress free way of killing the animals we think they are.  It has been proven that those environment are the worst environment to slaughter animals.  They are dirty, infested with contaminents and many of the sick animals are just slaughtered anyways and the meat sent to the markets.

What next? 

Outlawing silk because the pour silkworm get boiled to death so we can have its much prized silk thread? What about wool, the sheering of the lamb "stresses" the pour animal!

7.       stumpy
638 posts
 30 Jun 2011 Thu 02:39 am

Quoteaydreamer

German and French butchers must be delighted at the thought of taking over the Dutch market...

did you know that Adolf Hitler banned Halal/Kosher meat slaughter, and during the reign of the reich, all the occupied countries had to adhear to those laws

"The current animal welfare laws in Germany are modified versions of the laws introduced by the Nazis"

8.       alameda
3499 posts
 30 Jun 2011 Thu 02:58 am

 Ourtageous...these people are so damned arrogant! Stunning the brain of an animal is not a healthy thing to do at all. Is the animal inspected to see if it´s healthy? Stunning the front of the head can cause parts of dura matter to be spread throughout the carcass, making the possibility of getting  Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, the human form of Mad Cow disease.

I have never had any desire to go to Holland, keep your silly country. Ewww....I would not want to eat any Dutch meat...or any meat from stunned animals.

Eating meat means an animal died for you/us to eat it. The least we can do is take care to be respectful of the poor creature. If halal or kosher slaughter is done as intended, it is not cruel to the animal. I have seen many halal slaughters, and have not seen animals screaming and writhing in pain.

Quoting tunci

Dutch approve ban on religious animal slaughter, Muslims, Jews outraged

28 June 2011, Tuesday / AP, AMSTERDAM



Edited (6/30/2011) by alameda
Edited (6/30/2011) by alameda [sp]

Aida krishan and stumpy liked this message
9.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 30 Jun 2011 Thu 10:41 am

Alameda, soon you´ll run out of countries you took offence to - British customs officers made you not to want to visit the UK and now the Dutch idea of stopping animal cruelty puts you off the Netherlands. Why would you call a country that´s interested in animal rights silly but never used this word to describe a country where women´s rights are being violated by religious regime is beyond me...

I know if I were to die I´d rather be stunned than having my throat slit. But maybe that´s just me and cows appreciate watching their blood pour over their ears while hanging upside down - I´m not going to argue here as I base my idea on guessing rather than observation

10.       stumpy
638 posts
 30 Jun 2011 Thu 01:28 pm

Quoteaydreamer

...cows appreciate watching their blood pour over their ears while hanging upside down

 

If you were to hang a cow upsidown by their hind legs to slit their throats, firts of all the cow would flay around and you would run the risque of getting kicked.  The throat is always slit when the animal is standing on all 4 legs. Secondly, when the jugular is slit, by the second heartbeat of the cow there is no blood going to the brain, that is why the jugular is slit, to stop the blood flow to the brain so basicly the animal does not feel anything.  When the animal if finaly hung upsidown it is dead.

You should see how many times the animals are not "stunned" properly, yes the piston gun is not fool proof because the piston has to break the thick bone of the cow´s forehead, so in 90 percent of the times the cows suffer more with what is called the humaine way of butchering.

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