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To all TC members \"Hayırlı Ramazanlar\"
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30.       tunci
7149 posts
 17 Aug 2011 Wed 04:13 pm

 

Quoting lemon

I think starving yourself for religious beliefs is stupid and bears no value. God watches your heart not your mouth, stomach and hands. I think it is highly unhealthy not to eat during the day and eat during the night. You make all-knowing and almighty God stupid by putting Him in the frames of religion and making Him believe that your intentions are pure while He knows everything about you before you were born and before your parents were born. God is sovereign and is beyond all human thinking and perception. I dont think starving pleases Him.

 

In my opinion you are wrong Lemon. Its not that simple as you think. Its not all about starving yourself.

During Ramadan, every part of the body must be restrained. The tongue must be restrained from backbiting and gossip. The eyes must restrain themselves from looking at unlawful things. The hand must not touch or take anything that does not belong to it. The ears must refrain from listening to idle talk or obscene words. The feet must refrain from going to sinful places. In such a way, every part of the body observes the fast.

Therefore, fasting is not merely physical, but is rather the total commitment of the person´s body and soul to the spirit of the fast. Ramadan is a time to practice self-restraint; a time to cleanse the body and soul from impurities and re-focus one´s self on the worship of God

  • 1.Through fasting, a Muslim experiences hunger and thirst, and sympathizes with those in the world who have little to eat every day.
  • 2.Through increased devotion, Muslims feel closer to their Creator, and recognize that everything we have in this life is a blessing from Him.
  • 3.Through increased charity, Muslims develop feelings of generosity and good-will toward others. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) once said, "A man´s wealth is never diminished by charity."
  • 3.Through self-control, a Muslim practices good manners, good speech, and good habits.
  • Through changing routines, Muslims have a chance to establish more healthy lifestyle habits -- particularly with regards to diet and smoking.
  • 4.Through family and community gatherings, Muslims strengthen the bonds of brotherhood and sisterhood, in their own communities and throughout the world.

5.Ramadan is a very special time for Muslims, but the feelings and lessons we experience should stay with us throughout the year. In the Qur´an, Muslims are commanded to fast so that they may "learn self-restraint" (Qur´an 2:183). This restraint and devotion is especially felt during Ramadan, but we all must strive to make the feelings and attitudes stay with us during our "normal" lives. That is the true goal and test of Ramadan.

 Last Note , Lemon, none of us is perfect,I am not perfect. I had so many sins and still are.  God is perfect. So we should try our best to be a good believer. Btw you are totally free to express your thoughts as long as we respect eachother´s thoughts.

 



Edited (8/17/2011) by tunci

MarioninTurkey, Aida krishan, Nuraa-xo and jolanaze liked this message
31.       Abla
3647 posts
 17 Aug 2011 Wed 04:15 pm

Go ahead and express yourself, lemon. But I still think you used bad language. And I don´t think respect has to be gained.

The Bishop of Helsinki Irma Askola has been working on a dialogue between muslims and Christians. After visiting afternoon prayer in one of the local mosques she expressed her happiness and said she has a lot in common with people who believe holy exists. It´s not a self-evident truth for most people in today´s world. I am not a member of her chuch  -  we are not the same kind  -  but I can´t forget what she said.

I understand from your text that you are a believer. It shouldn´t be so difficult for you to understand people who think  -  just like you   - that holy exists.



Edited (8/17/2011) by Abla

32.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 17 Aug 2011 Wed 04:55 pm

Every major religion practices some form of fasting.  Whether people agree with it or not it is a fact of our human culture to try to become more perfect, more pure, more in touch with our various belief systems.  This is the muslim expression of that need/drive.  Billions of muslims have done it over a couple of millenia and still value its teachings (without dying or having any lasting health issues).  There is something to be said for having restraint...even if it does not fit your definition of worship.   

catwoman liked this message
33.       lemon
1374 posts
 17 Aug 2011 Wed 06:34 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

In my opinion you are wrong Lemon. Its not that simple as you think. Its not all about starving yourself.

During Ramadan, every part of the body must be restrained. The tongue must be restrained from backbiting and gossip. The eyes must restrain themselves from looking at unlawful things. The hand must not touch or take anything that does not belong to it. The ears must refrain from listening to idle talk or obscene words. The feet must refrain from going to sinful places. In such a way, every part of the body observes the fast.

Therefore, fasting is not merely physical, but is rather the total commitment of the person´s body and soul to the spirit of the fast. Ramadan is a time to practice self-restraint; a time to cleanse the body and soul from impurities and re-focus one´s self on the worship of God

  • 1.Through fasting, a Muslim experiences hunger and thirst, and sympathizes with those in the world who have little to eat every day.
  • 2.Through increased devotion, Muslims feel closer to their Creator, and recognize that everything we have in this life is a blessing from Him.
  • 3.Through increased charity, Muslims develop feelings of generosity and good-will toward others. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) once said, "A man´s wealth is never diminished by charity."
  • 3.Through self-control, a Muslim practices good manners, good speech, and good habits.
  • Through changing routines, Muslims have a chance to establish more healthy lifestyle habits -- particularly with regards to diet and smoking.
  • 4.Through family and community gatherings, Muslims strengthen the bonds of brotherhood and sisterhood, in their own communities and throughout the world.

5.Ramadan is a very special time for Muslims, but the feelings and lessons we experience should stay with us throughout the year. In the Qur´an, Muslims are commanded to fast so that they may "learn self-restraint" (Qur´an 2:183). This restraint and devotion is especially felt during Ramadan, but we all must strive to make the feelings and attitudes stay with us during our "normal" lives. That is the true goal and test of Ramadan.

 Last Note , Lemon, none of us is perfect,I am not perfect. I had so many sins and still are.  God is perfect. So we should try our best to be a good believer. Btw you are totally free to express your thoughts as long as we respect eachother´s thoughts.

 

 

Im thinking. And what I think is: so the rest 11 months you are allowed to sin? The rest 11 months your tongue, eyes and hands are ok to sin? A hypocrasy comes to my mind when I read such texts. You are cheating yourselves. You think you become a better person during ramadan? Who gives the guarantee? God? or your religion?

What you wrote is a pure philosophy made for men by men to satisfy the religious needs and make feel comfortable. When you stand before God on the other side what will you say to justify your sins? Imam Mehmet Ali said so? Then God will say? Who is he? Is he God? I gave you brains, I gave you eyes, I gave you ears. Couldnt you use them? Did you really look for Me? Did you really need Me? Or did you just shut down your brain and followed those who were just human beings like you?

 

34.       lemon
1374 posts
 17 Aug 2011 Wed 06:52 pm

 

Quoting Abla

Go ahead and express yourself, lemon. But I still think you used bad language. And I don´t think respect has to be gained.

The Bishop of Helsinki Irma Askola has been working on a dialogue between muslims and Christians. After visiting afternoon prayer in one of the local mosques she expressed her happiness and said she has a lot in common with people who believe holy exists. It´s not a self-evident truth for most people in today´s world. I am not a member of her chuch  -  we are not the same kind  -  but I can´t forget what she said.

I understand from your text that you are a believer. It shouldn´t be so difficult for you to understand people who think  -  just like you   - that holy exists.

 

Dear Abla,

I think I use a sharp language (not bad). I am known on this website because of my style and straightforwardness. Sometimes I think I should learn to become a politician who knows how to speak and which words to use in order to please the public. Such person is called a diplomat in my culture.

Irma is a complete ignorant. She knows nothing of Bible which says that a woman has no right to become a bishop neither can teach. She and many others ignore the Word of God thus become false teachers. May God forgive her and let her see the true grace from God. I dont think she has really repented from sins and studied Bible with all her senses. All she does is a job, all she has a title, but no faith. Forgive me, no where in New Testament it says to go on dialogue or seek compromise. She is doing the will of men (thus you are impressed), not the will of God.

I am sorry, Abla, I have a different definition of a believer. I do not follow the religious leaders, I follow the Word of God which is Bible.

There are no righteous or holy. Only God is holy.

35.       lemon
1374 posts
 17 Aug 2011 Wed 07:05 pm

 

Quoting Elisabeth

Every major religion practices some form of fasting.  Whether people agree with it or not it is a fact of our human culture to try to become more perfect, more pure, more in touch with our various belief systems.  This is the muslim expression of that need/drive.  Billions of muslims have done it over a couple of millenia and still value its teachings (without dying or having any lasting health issues).  There is something to be said for having restraint...even if it does not fit your definition of worship.   

 

Oh, yes! Major religions, yes! So this is pracitsed by Catholics and Muslims (both the biggest religions). Catholicism and Islam are actually twin sisters.

You sure know that fasting in Catholicism is not supported by Bible.

Fasting is recognised as a specific and individual choice spending time on prayers to God (that is practiced any time, any day). Usually people fast for a day or a few eating absolutely nothing. It has nothing to do with cleansing your body or your mind or even detoxing yourself.

Just simple logic says and many dietologists will support what I say that starving during the day and eating before going to sleep is unhealthy. Your body needs energy during the wake hours not the rest hours.

36.       tunci
7149 posts
 17 Aug 2011 Wed 07:24 pm

 

Quoting lemon

 

 

Im thinking. And what I think is: so the rest 11 months you are allowed to sin? The rest 11 months your tongue, eyes and hands are ok to sin? A hypocrasy comes to my mind when I read such texts. You are cheating yourselves. You think you become a better person during ramadan? Who gives the guarantee? God? or your religion?

What you wrote is a pure philosophy made for men by men to satisfy the religious needs and make feel comfortable. When you stand before God on the other side what will you say to justify your sins? Imam Mehmet Ali said so? Then God will say? Who is he? Is he God? I gave you brains, I gave you eyes, I gave you ears. Couldnt you use them? Did you really look for Me? Did you really need Me? Or did you just shut down your brain and followed those who were just human beings like you?

 

 

 Seems like your mind has a narrow look at things ,especially to Islamic Rituels. First you need take your horse glasses off [its a saying] and see the whole context ! . Yes God has given us brains to use . Therefore use your brain and read it carefully. Ramadan is re-focusing and special time that believers can train their tounge ,their mind, their body. Refreshing time for their soul..

Of course you are not allowed to sin the rest 11 months. You are not allowed to sin anytime. and if you had read the Quran you would see there is no room for Hypocricy.

When it comes to guarantee, No one has guarantee to go to heaven. Its between you and God. But you can become a better person by comitting your life to God.

I dont care "what Imam Ali says " . I care what QURAN says. But if " Imam Ali " speaks according to Quran then I would listen him too. We dont put our faith in Imam Ali, We put our faith in Allah c.c [God].

This is the phylosophy [as you put it] that we belive in. Whether you like it or not. Quran is not men made . It is Gods words and divine message for all humankind to lead them into the right path and make them to USE THEIR BRAINS.

 

37.       tunci
7149 posts
 17 Aug 2011 Wed 09:03 pm

 

People across Turkey view sakal-ı şerif in festive Ramadan mood

17 August 2011, Wednesday / TODAY’S ZAMAN, İSTANBUL

                                     Sakal-ı şerif

During the festive holy month of Ramadan, the Directorate of Religious Affairs is exhibiting sakal-ı şerif (pieces of hair from the beard of the Prophet Muhammad, preserved as relics) in mosques in Kocaeli, Antakya and Gaziantep.
 

In Kocaeli’s İzmit district, the sakal-ı şerif went on display in the Orhan Mosque after terawih prayers on Sunday evening. Traditionally, the exhibition of the sacred relic opens every year on the night of Aug. 14 to 15, religious officials said. While viewing the relic, the congregation was very excited. A long line of people were eager for the chance to see it. Abdülkadir Keşvelioğlu, the local religious official (müfti) of the town, said the sakal-ı şerif will be exhibited in different mosques so that everyone -- men and women, young and old -- will have an opportunity to see it. He added that Turks have shown great respect for the Prophet through the centuries.

The same night, another sakal-ı şerif was displayed at the Ulu Mosque in the Dörtyol district of Antakya. On the first day of the exhibition, there was a great deal of public interest in viewing the sakal-ı şerif. The sakal-ı şerif will remain available for public viewing until the end of Ramadan.

In Antakya’s city center, a sakal-ı şerif was displayed at the end of an iftar dinner organized by Antakya Intercultural Dialogue Association and Antakya Municipality. Representatives of the three Abrahamic religions attended the dinner along with the people. The religious leaders shared messages of peace at the end of the dinner.

The Şehitkamil Municipality in Gaziantep also hosted an event to open the exhibition of a sakal-ı şerif, which was very well attended. The opening event was held in the garden of the Aktoprak Elementary School. People in attendance said they were grateful for the activity and thanked the officials who planned it. In Belgium, where there is a large Muslim and Turkish population, a sakal-ı şerif was displayed at the Yavuz Sultan Selim Mosque in La Louviere, a city in the Belgian province of Hainaut, on Aug. 14

 

38.       tunci
7149 posts
 17 Aug 2011 Wed 09:08 pm

Ramadan celebrated in US as enthusiastically as in Turkey

17 August 2011, Wednesday / TODAY’S ZAMAN, İSTANBUL

The Ulu Mosque in the city of Patterson, New Jersey, hosts 400 guests every night. Bilal Ankaya (pictured above), an imam of a mosque in the state of Washington, says Ramadan in a foreign place has its beauties.
Many Turks live in cities in New Jersey where the holy month of Ramadan is celebrated as eagerly as in Turkey. Thousands of miles away from their native land, Turks share their food at the same iftar (fast-breaking dinner).
 

The Ulu Mosque in the city of Patterson hosts 400 guests and the Karaçay Türkleri Mosque hosts 150, while in the city of Clifton the Yeni Dünya Mosque has 150 visitors every night for iftar. Believers from other countries are welcome at these iftar tables, not just Turks.

The guests say these iftar events bond the Turks of the US and pave the way for the new generation in the community to learn about their native cultures. Cem Karadeniz, who moved to the US in 1989, told the Anatolia news agency they spend Ramadan with other Muslims and that these moments they spend together are precious. “It is very important for our families to come together and experience the atmosphere [of sharing]. We are away from Turkey, which we long for. That is the only thing missing. But I believe we have a good Ramadan here,” he said.

Born and raised in the US, Elif Kasaoğlu said she feels like she is in Turkey during Ramadan. Selman Minhaz, the child of a Turkish mother and a Pakistani father, shared the happiness of the crowd, saying they are like a big family.

Sixty-six-year-old Kezban Sözer, who can cook dinner for as many as 700 guests at the Ulu Mosque, is called “Kezban Ana” (Mother Kezban) by everybody in the mosque where she has cooked for the past 15 Ramadans. One of the participants, Engin Kocabaş, said iftars are better with a crowd. “That’s why we choose to come here. The atmosphere is no different than that in Turkey.”

Karaçay Türkleri Mosque Foundation head Kadir Taşkın said his foundation works to create the best Ramadan atmosphere so that Turks living in the city feel at home. “Rather than having food, we are happy to have the Turkish community together here,” he said.

Washington also celebrates Ramadan with enthusiasm. Bilal Ankaya is an imam of a mosque managed by the Virginia-based Institute of Islamic and Turkish Studies (IITS). After studying at Selçuk University’s faculty of theology in Konya, Ankaya got his master’s degree at an American university. Residing in Washington for the past 13 years, Ankaya told the Aksiyon weekly that he used to have nobody to share iftar with when he first arrived in the US but is never alone at iftar now.

“Ramadan in a foreign place has its beauties. It is not the same thing to fast in a place where everybody fasts as in a place where nobody fasts. Deep inside you feel a bond with the Creator that is hard to describe.

The mosque where Ankaya serves as an imam is not like the glorious mosques of Turkey. It is a place to pray among the workplaces of the city of Fairfax in the Washington metropolitan area. “Yes, our mosque is small, but our hopes are big. With the opening of the mosque, Turks from Turkey and the Turkic republics started to bond quickly and warmly. We should mention other Muslims in this group, including Afghans, Pakistanis and Egyptians. For example, it is possible to see an African reciting azan (call to prayer) and an Indonesian distributing food,” he said.

Ankaya’s institute has three types of services: for Muslims in general, for Turks and for Americans. He said Americans do not have many trustworthy sources for exploring Islam and that the institution is there to provide the most rational and sensible information. “Although 9/11 seemed to increase Islamophobia, it also boosted interest in the religion,” he said.

While noting that people in the US are religious, Ankaya said IITS has developed relationships with locals and churches and that they meet on various occasions at IITS or in churches. He said every time he delivers a seminar in a church he is asked many questions. The imam said the questions are mostly about jihad and women’s rights in Islam. “I tell them jihad is about defense and that the real jihad takes place in one’s inner soul.”

 

39.       lemon
1374 posts
 17 Aug 2011 Wed 10:03 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

 Seems like your mind has a narrow look at things ,especially to Islamic Rituels. First you need take your horse glasses off [its a saying] and see the whole context ! . Yes God has given us brains to use . Therefore use your brain and read it carefully. Ramadan is re-focusing and special time that believers can train their tounge ,their mind, their body. Refreshing time for their soul..

Of course you are not allowed to sin the rest 11 months. You are not allowed to sin anytime. and if you had read the Quran you would see there is no room for Hypocricy.

When it comes to guarantee, No one has guarantee to go to heaven. Its between you and God. But you can become a better person by comitting your life to God.

I dont care "what Imam Ali says " . I care what QURAN says. But if " Imam Ali " speaks according to Quran then I would listen him too. We dont put our faith in Imam Ali, We put our faith in Allah c.c [God].

This is the phylosophy [as you put it] that we belive in. Whether you like it or not. Quran is not men made . It is Gods words and divine message for all humankind to lead them into the right path and make them to USE THEIR BRAINS.

 

 

I just ignore your personal insults. This a cheap way to approach the discussion.

You are so much wrong!!! Jesus Christ gives you a 100% guarantee of getting to Heaven. No one else does! No prophet and no angel!

So, you acknowledge that the Quran is a philosophy. Thanks.

Define me "divine message", please. Is it a peace of paper that is dropped from heaven?

40.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 17 Aug 2011 Wed 10:18 pm

 

Quoting lemon

 

 

I just ignore your personal insults. This a cheap way to approach the discussion.

 

 Interesting point!

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