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the - man [-men] suffix in Turkish
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40. |
30 Sep 2011 Fri 06:19 am |
I just had a thought about this. Interesting about how we can now see how many Turkish words were constructed from these suffixes. Seems like many established Turkish words constructed in this way? I know this curiosity might not matter much if one is just learning the language for personal reasons but still am curious.
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41. |
30 Sep 2011 Fri 09:41 am |
I agree it is funny that even suffixes tend to be borrowed from one language to another but it happens in world languages. I don´t know so much about Turkish, of course, but I know in Russian, for istance, the same English -men-suffix creates new actor names. They have even invented a feminine form for it, so a female athlete is sports|men|ka. The same way the Turkish actor derivator -ci is borrowed to Arabic and used with original Arabic words until know.
It might also be that there is a ready model in the language itself and the alien model feels at home because it is supported by similar domestic material.
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42. |
30 Sep 2011 Fri 10:02 am |
Now I know why are you so stubborn on your claim Si++, its because I mishighlighted the suffixes ; the right way should be as follows ;
Korkmak = to fear -----> Kork-ak ----> coward
Dilemek = to wish -----> Dile-k -------> wish
Kapamak = to close ----> Kapa-k this is wrong see my explaination below-----> lid, cover
Yatmak = to sleep ------> Yat-ak -----> bed
this will end the debate i guess..you cant be still oppose ?
No. -(i)k and -ak/-ek are not the same.
And still you don´t give a reference which will support your claim.
As a general rule suffixes that do not require a buffer letter after an open syllable (the one that ends with a vowel), are used with one ı,i,u,ü after a closed syllable (the one that ends with a consonant).
-(i)m, -(i)miz, -(in), -(i)niz
silgi-m, silgi-(n)
kalem-im, kalem-in
-(i)t-
taşı-t-mak, tanı-t-mak, kapa-t-mak, işle-t-mek
kork-ut-mak, az-ıt-mak, berk-it-mek, ak-ıt-mak, sark-ıt-mak
-(i)k-
ac-ık-mak
bir-ik-mek
gec-ik-mek
göz-ük-mek
taş-ık-mak (today´s çıkmak)
My grammar book says -ak/-ek suffix comes from another form -gak/-gek which is in turn said to be
-gak = -ga-k -> -ak in today´s Turkish.
kap-gak -> kapak (not my claim, my book says so)
kur-gak -> kurak
ker-gek -> gerek
em-gek -> emek
kür-gek -> kürek
etc.
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43. |
30 Sep 2011 Fri 12:13 pm |
THE SUFFIX -ÇıL [ -ÇİL,- ÇUL, -ÇÜL ]
This suffix comes to nouns and transform them into "fondness" ..etc..
Balık [ Fish ] ----> Balıkçıl ---> The name of the fish [ kingfisher ]
Ev [ House ] ----> Evcil ----> Domestic
İnsan [ Human ] ---> İnsancıl ----> Humanist, Humanistic
Ben [ I, me] -----> Bencil ---> Selfish,Egoistic
Ot [ grass] -----> Otçul ----> Herbivorous
Otçul hayvanlar ---> The group of animals who eat only plants.
Et [ Meat ] -----> Etçil ----> Carnivorous
Etçil hayvanlar ---> The group of animals who eat only meat.
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44. |
30 Sep 2011 Fri 03:37 pm |
I just had a thought about this. Interesting about how we can now see how many Turkish words were constructed from these suffixes. Seems like many established Turkish words constructed in this way? I know this curiosity might not matter much if one is just learning the language for personal reasons but still am curious.
A learner need not to know all about constructive suffixes unless they want to make up a brand new word. 
Most of the constructive suffixes only applied to a very few words. For example -gıç is also used to form a doer-name: dal-gıç (=diver), and so far as I know this is one of two doer-names formed this way. A learner misses nothing by not knowing about this suffix. If a learner want to know why it is dalgıç but not dalman, and why it is sayman but not saygıç they get no logical answer.
I think only major constructive suffixes should be taught.
-mak, -mek for example, -ma,-me and -ış, -iş,-uş, -üş applied all the verb roots and stems and every learner should know about them.
But what is funny most of the natives teaching Turkish to the learners think mek/mak form of a word is a verb.
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45. |
30 Sep 2011 Fri 04:16 pm |
A learner need not to know all about constructive suffixes unless they want to make up a brand new word. 
Most of the constructive suffixes only applied to a very few words. For example -gıç is also used to form a doer-name: dal-gıç (=diver), and so far as I know this is one of two doer-names formed this way. A learner misses nothing by not knowing about this suffix. If a learner want to know why it is dalgıç but not dalman, and why it is sayman but not saygıç they get no logical answer.
I think only major constructive suffixes should be taught.
-mak, -mek for example, -ma,-me and -ış, -iş,-uş, -üş applied all the verb roots and stems and every learner should know about them.
But what is funny most of the natives teaching Turkish to the learners think mek/mak form of a word is a verb.
Tabii ki Türkçeyi öğrenenlerin yapım eklerinin tamamını öğrenmelerine lüzum yok. Yeni sözcük türetmek TDK´nın işi fakat bilmelerinde de zarar yok kanısındayım. Türkçe zevkli ve sır dolu maceralı bir yolculuktur. 
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46. |
30 Sep 2011 Fri 04:29 pm |
Tabii ki Türkçeyi öğrenenlerin yapım eklerinin tamamını öğrenmelerine lüzum yok. Yeni sözcük türetmek TDK´nın işi fakat bilmelerinde de zarar yok kanısındayım. Türkçe zevkli ve sır dolu maceralı bir yolculuktur. 
Fazla sır dolu. Neyse, belki en yaygın kullanılan eklerden başlamak daha iyi bir fikir olabilirdi diye düşününmüştüm, ama burada patron sensin.
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47. |
30 Sep 2011 Fri 05:02 pm |
I don´t know the grammar books (for the suffixes) you two use, but mine is Türk Dil Bilgisi by Prof.Dr.Muharrem Ergin which is the top reference book for Turkish suffixes.
I had hated Turkish grammar because of unlikeble book of Muharrem Ergin untill I met with Feyza Hepçilingirler´s "Türkçe Dilbilgisi Öğretme Kitabı" I still don´t like Turkish grammar very much but at least I don´t hate it anymore.
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48. |
30 Sep 2011 Fri 05:12 pm |
I had hated Turkish grammar because of unlikeble book of Muharrem Ergin untill I met with Feyza Hepçilingirler´s "Türkçe Dilbilgisi Öğretme Kitabı" I still don´t like Turkish grammar very much but at least I don´t hate it anymore.
Kitap o kadar kötü mü Gök ? Lol.. Scalpel´e göre Top Reference mış ..Çok mu detaycı Muharrem Hoca acaba ?
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49. |
30 Sep 2011 Fri 05:15 pm |
Kitap o kadar kötü mü Gök ? Lol.. Scalpel´e göre Top Reference mış ..Çok mu detaycı Muharrem Hoca acaba ?
Şöyle söyleyeyim kitabın ruhu yok ve ben ruhsuz şeylerden nefret ederim. Bu yüzden ben hep edebiyatla ilgili olmuşumdur.
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50. |
03 Oct 2011 Mon 04:21 am |
THE SUFFIX -ÇıL [ -ÇİL,- ÇUL, -ÇÜL ]
This suffix comes to nouns and transform them into "fondness" ..etc..
Balık [ Fish ] ----> Balıkçıl ---> The name of the fish [ kingfisher ] and also "piscivorous"
As with herbivorous and carnivorous, "piscivorous" would mean "consumes only fish" so it is in line with the suffix describing character traits.
Balıkçıl kuş ?
But I wonder, if one is refering to the the group of bird species that eat fish (heron, egret etc) is kuş sometimes used after so its known that its the bird type you are talking about? Such as if yırtıcı kuş refers to raptor type birds. (eagle, buteo etc)
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