General/Off-topic |
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Ataturk
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| 21. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 09:39 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting catwoman: and Turks having missed the opportunity to be just another Islamic Republic by a split hair... |
good point, but people like bod wont understand it. |
Hey - gimme some credit!!!
Unless you believe that Turkia would have been better remaining under Ottaman rule then you almost have to agree that Ataturk was very good for Turkia. The problem is that social revolutions and policital developments that Ataturk started were never continued in any meanful sense.
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| 22. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 09:44 pm |
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Quoting bod: Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting catwoman: and Turks having missed the opportunity to be just another Islamic Republic by a split hair... |
good point, but people like bod wont understand it. |
Hey - gimme some credit!!!
Unless you believe that Turkia would have been better remaining under Ottaman rule then you almost have to agree that Ataturk was very good for Turkia. The problem is that social revolutions and policital developments that Ataturk started were never continued in any meanful sense. |
can you imagine what may have happent if there were no military control?
some nations gotta go through hundreds of years in order to have the freedom as in the western countries?
it takes blood.
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| 23. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 09:51 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: can you imagine what may have happent if there were no military control?
some nations gotta go through hundreds of years in order to have the freedom as in the western countries?
it takes blood.
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I am not suggesting that military control has not been necessary......overthrowing an empire, or any political system nearly always requires a lead from military forces.
But once the 'freedom' has been gained, there should always be a move towards policital rule (of whatever flavour) with the military protecting that - not leading it. Turkia seems to have drifted along without actively trying to establish this 'shift in power'.
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| 24. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 10:03 pm |
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Quoting bod:
But once the 'freedom' has been gained,
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its not so easy, gain the freedom and basta! they gotta get free from their horrible traditions (like honor killings). without being freed from ottoman mentality, its very difficult to speak of things like freedom. and unfortunately this process takes a long time.
Quoting bod:
there should always be a move towards policital rule (of whatever flavour) with the military protecting that - not leading it.
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a move with which politicians? 
Quoting bod:
Turkia seems to have drifted along without actively trying to establish this 'shift in power'. |
they need another ataturk.
some nations needs a strong hand.
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| 25. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 10:20 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: they need another ataturk.
some nations needs a strong hand. |
Totally agreed 
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| 26. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 10:48 pm |
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Quoting bod: Quoting femme_fatal: they need another ataturk.
some nations needs a strong hand. |
Totally agreed |
you dare not to agree 
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| 27. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 11:10 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting bod: Totally agreed |
you dare not to agree |
Exactly! 
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| 28. |
17 Dec 2007 Mon 06:19 pm |
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Quoting bod: Quoting femme_fatal: they need another ataturk.
some nations needs a strong hand. |
Totally agreed |
I absolutely disagree with ff.
Having a working democracy in a country is a process.
But saying that 'some nations need a strong hand' does not have bearings.
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| 29. |
17 Dec 2007 Mon 06:26 pm |
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Quoting thehandsom:
I absolutely disagree with ff.
Having a working democracy in a country is a process.
But saying that 'some nations need a strong hand' does not have bearings. |
then use your imagination and pretend theres no military control.
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| 30. |
17 Dec 2007 Mon 06:44 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting thehandsom:
I absolutely disagree with ff.
Having a working democracy in a country is a process.
But saying that 'some nations need a strong hand' does not have bearings. |
then use your imagination and pretend theres no military control. |
Military has been the biggest obstacle as far as the political process in turkey is concerned.
We have a parliament, we have a government!!
What? Are you suggesting that simply, country A needs a strong hand, but country B does not?
Then, we should stop arguing and look for a strong hand for Turkey and others which are not developed enough to 'deserve' democracy!
I wont buy that. Sorry!
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