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Ataturk
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| 1. |
24 Sep 2005 Sat 07:00 pm |
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What comes to your mind when you hear the word Ataturk.
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| 2. |
26 Nov 2007 Mon 06:56 pm |
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Interesting, no one ever responded to this post....
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| 3. |
26 Nov 2007 Mon 06:59 pm |
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I think that may change VERY soon..... 
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| 4. |
26 Nov 2007 Mon 07:01 pm |
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..... perhaps you should post some bait 
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| 5. |
26 Nov 2007 Mon 07:06 pm |
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OK, here is my comment
I think that Ataturk was an exceptional man who made HUGE achievements in Turkey. He was progressive and forward thinking and I believe he would be HORRIFIED to discover that years after his death LITTLE has changed and, rather than continue with his great work, Turkey has enshrined his ideas that were relevent to the times but are no longer relevant or appropriate (i.e. army intervention in politics).
If Turkey continue this policy, they will never have another GREAT leader like Ataturk, because the very way they rigidly stick to his ideas prevents another "Ataturk" from rising to power.
Ataturk was not a god, but he was a great leader.
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| 6. |
26 Nov 2007 Mon 07:07 pm |
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peculiar
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| 7. |
26 Nov 2007 Mon 07:08 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: OK, here is my comment
I think that Ataturk was an exceptional man who made HUGE achievements in Turkey. He was progressive and forward thinking and I believe he would be HORRIFIED to discover that years after his death LITTLE has changed and, rather than continue with his great work, Turkey has enshrined his ideas that were relevent to the times but are no longer relevant or appropriate (i.e. army intervention in politics).
If Turkey continue this policy, they will never have another GREAT leader like Ataturk, because the very way they rigidly stick to his ideas prevents another "Ataturk" from rising to power.
Ataturk was not a god, but he was a great leader.
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Any comment? 
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| 8. |
26 Nov 2007 Mon 07:26 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: OK, here is my comment
I think that Ataturk was an exceptional man who made HUGE achievements in Turkey. He was progressive and forward thinking and I believe he would be HORRIFIED to discover that years after his death LITTLE has changed and, rather than continue with his great work, Turkey has enshrined his ideas that were relevent to the times but are no longer relevant or appropriate (i.e. army intervention in politics).
If Turkey continue this policy, they will never have another GREAT leader like Ataturk, because the very way they rigidly stick to his ideas prevents another "Ataturk" from rising to power.
Ataturk was not a god, but he was a great leader.
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i disagree
the state needs the military control. its Ataturk who established it that way. its safe with the army. no army - no stability.
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| 9. |
26 Nov 2007 Mon 07:28 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting AEnigma III: OK, here is my comment
I think that Ataturk was an exceptional man who made HUGE achievements in Turkey. He was progressive and forward thinking and I believe he would be HORRIFIED to discover that years after his death LITTLE has changed and, rather than continue with his great work, Turkey has enshrined his ideas that were relevent to the times but are no longer relevant or appropriate (i.e. army intervention in politics).
If Turkey continue this policy, they will never have another GREAT leader like Ataturk, because the very way they rigidly stick to his ideas prevents another "Ataturk" from rising to power.
Ataturk was not a god, but he was a great leader.
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i disagree
the state needs the military control. its Ataturk who established it that way. its safe with the army. no army - no stability. |
I like the way Turkey has that sort of "Hive Mind" thing going on.
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| 10. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 08:49 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: the state needs the military control. its Ataturk who established it that way. its safe with the army. no army - no stability. |
I totally disagree.....
In any stable society the state leads the military - not the other way round. It is the place of the military to serve the wishes of the state, not to direct the state.
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| 11. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 08:59 pm |
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When I hear the word "Ataturk", I immediately think of all classrooms in Turkey, multiple statues in all city centers, all airport names, all park names, all Turks going in the state of psychosis and rage in a matter of seconds, severe censorship, angry muslims..... and Turks having missed the opportunity to be just another Islamic Republic by a split hair...
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| 12. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 09:02 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: and Turks having missed the opportunity to be just another Islamic Republic by a split hair... |
good point, but people like bod wont understand it.
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| 13. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 09:02 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: When I hear the word "Ataturk", I immediately think of all classrooms in Turkey, multiple statues in all city centers, all airport names, all park names, all Turks going in the state of psychosis and rage in a matter of seconds, severe censorship, angry muslims..... and Turks having missed the opportunity to be just another Islamic Republic by a split hair... |
i would not be that brave
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| 14. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 09:04 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting catwoman: When I hear the word "Ataturk", I immediately think of all classrooms in Turkey, multiple statues in all city centers, all airport names, all park names, all Turks going in the state of psychosis and rage in a matter of seconds, severe censorship, angry muslims..... and Turks having missed the opportunity to be just another Islamic Republic by a split hair... |
i would not be that brave |
I noticed! You prefer to just agree with me!
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| 15. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 09:07 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting catwoman: When I hear the word "Ataturk", I immediately think of all classrooms in Turkey, multiple statues in all city centers, all airport names, all park names, all Turks going in the state of psychosis and rage in a matter of seconds, severe censorship, angry muslims..... and Turks having missed the opportunity to be just another Islamic Republic by a split hair... |
i would not be that brave |
I noticed! You prefer to just agree with me! |
nope, im afraid of turkish nationalists 
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| 16. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 09:11 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: nope, im afraid of turkish nationalists |
According to free press rankings Boratstan is 24 points worse then Turkey (at position 125 and Turkey is at 101, for comparison, Poland is 56 and USA is 48!)
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| 17. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 09:20 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting femme_fatal: nope, im afraid of turkish nationalists |
According to free press rankings Boratstan is 24 points worse then Turkey (at position 125 and Turkey is at 101, for comparison, Poland is 56 and USA is 48!) |
shut up you smelly cat! 
everything is wonderful in my country!
we have a great democracy and a freedom of speech!
kazakhstan is a heart and soul of the earth!
you dont know what respect( typical to bed amerikans).
or you simply are jealous!
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| 18. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 09:23 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: everything is wonderful in my country!
we have a great democracy and a freedom of speech!
kazakhstan is a heart and soul of the earth!
you dont know what respect( typical to bed amerikans).
or you simply are jealous! |
If Boratstan is the heart and soul of the earth then we have conflicting information with that coming from Turkey... I thought there could be only one heart and soul... now I'm confused 
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| 19. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 09:25 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting femme_fatal: everything is wonderful in my country!
we have a great democracy and a freedom of speech!
kazakhstan is a heart and soul of the earth!
you dont know what respect( typical to bed amerikans).
or you simply are jealous! |
If Boratstan is the heart and soul of the earth then we have conflicting information with that coming from Turkey... I thought there could be only one heart and soul... now I'm confused |
they are simply liars!
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| 21. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 09:39 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting catwoman: and Turks having missed the opportunity to be just another Islamic Republic by a split hair... |
good point, but people like bod wont understand it. |
Hey - gimme some credit!!!
Unless you believe that Turkia would have been better remaining under Ottaman rule then you almost have to agree that Ataturk was very good for Turkia. The problem is that social revolutions and policital developments that Ataturk started were never continued in any meanful sense.
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| 22. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 09:44 pm |
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Quoting bod: Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting catwoman: and Turks having missed the opportunity to be just another Islamic Republic by a split hair... |
good point, but people like bod wont understand it. |
Hey - gimme some credit!!!
Unless you believe that Turkia would have been better remaining under Ottaman rule then you almost have to agree that Ataturk was very good for Turkia. The problem is that social revolutions and policital developments that Ataturk started were never continued in any meanful sense. |
can you imagine what may have happent if there were no military control?
some nations gotta go through hundreds of years in order to have the freedom as in the western countries?
it takes blood.
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| 23. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 09:51 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: can you imagine what may have happent if there were no military control?
some nations gotta go through hundreds of years in order to have the freedom as in the western countries?
it takes blood.
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I am not suggesting that military control has not been necessary......overthrowing an empire, or any political system nearly always requires a lead from military forces.
But once the 'freedom' has been gained, there should always be a move towards policital rule (of whatever flavour) with the military protecting that - not leading it. Turkia seems to have drifted along without actively trying to establish this 'shift in power'.
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| 24. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 10:03 pm |
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Quoting bod:
But once the 'freedom' has been gained,
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its not so easy, gain the freedom and basta! they gotta get free from their horrible traditions (like honor killings). without being freed from ottoman mentality, its very difficult to speak of things like freedom. and unfortunately this process takes a long time.
Quoting bod:
there should always be a move towards policital rule (of whatever flavour) with the military protecting that - not leading it.
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a move with which politicians? 
Quoting bod:
Turkia seems to have drifted along without actively trying to establish this 'shift in power'. |
they need another ataturk.
some nations needs a strong hand.
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| 25. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 10:20 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: they need another ataturk.
some nations needs a strong hand. |
Totally agreed 
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| 26. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 10:48 pm |
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Quoting bod: Quoting femme_fatal: they need another ataturk.
some nations needs a strong hand. |
Totally agreed |
you dare not to agree 
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| 27. |
16 Dec 2007 Sun 11:10 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting bod: Totally agreed |
you dare not to agree |
Exactly! 
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| 28. |
17 Dec 2007 Mon 06:19 pm |
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Quoting bod: Quoting femme_fatal: they need another ataturk.
some nations needs a strong hand. |
Totally agreed |
I absolutely disagree with ff.
Having a working democracy in a country is a process.
But saying that 'some nations need a strong hand' does not have bearings.
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| 29. |
17 Dec 2007 Mon 06:26 pm |
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Quoting thehandsom:
I absolutely disagree with ff.
Having a working democracy in a country is a process.
But saying that 'some nations need a strong hand' does not have bearings. |
then use your imagination and pretend theres no military control.
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| 30. |
17 Dec 2007 Mon 06:44 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting thehandsom:
I absolutely disagree with ff.
Having a working democracy in a country is a process.
But saying that 'some nations need a strong hand' does not have bearings. |
then use your imagination and pretend theres no military control. |
Military has been the biggest obstacle as far as the political process in turkey is concerned.
We have a parliament, we have a government!!
What? Are you suggesting that simply, country A needs a strong hand, but country B does not?
Then, we should stop arguing and look for a strong hand for Turkey and others which are not developed enough to 'deserve' democracy!
I wont buy that. Sorry!
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| 31. |
17 Dec 2007 Mon 07:43 pm |
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Quoting thehandsom: Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting thehandsom:
I absolutely disagree with ff.
Having a working democracy in a country is a process.
But saying that 'some nations need a strong hand' does not have bearings. |
then use your imagination and pretend theres no military control. |
Military has been the biggest obstacle as far as the political process in turkey is concerned.
We have a parliament, we have a government!!
What? Are you suggesting that simply, country A needs a strong hand, but country B does not?
Then, we should stop arguing and look for a strong hand for Turkey and others which are not developed enough to 'deserve' democracy!
I wont buy that. Sorry! |
sorry, canim, you ll have to buy. you have no other option. i know i hurt your romantic feelings.
im just stating the facts. the naked truth
tell me if your country is ready to live in a free democratic state?
how can you expect any citizen to understand and embrace the democracy rules if he/she doesnt know that his/her basic human rights are abused? you live so long in the west and till this time havent noticed the mentality difference?
im sorry to tell you that turkey is not developed enough to organise a democratic country. it longs so, but it will fail again and again. why? because of our backward mentality.
to have the same democracy as in the west we have a long marsh of hardships and fights.
therefore as i stated before there must be a stron hand to push it ahead again!
like ataturk who just gave a great kick to turkey out of feudalism.
watch how your countrymen talk about politics and the history. they all speak like automised robots, the same slogans for years.
there must be a freedom of speech. the actual social education comes from mass media (which in turkey is not free). these are basic elements to build a democracy.
im sorry, there are no equal nations!
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| 32. |
17 Dec 2007 Mon 08:38 pm |
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Quoting femme_fatal: sorry, canim, you ll have to buy. you have no other option. i know i hurt your romantic feelings. |
thehandsom now? Grrrrrrrrrrr I was busy fixing you up with Ciko!
Make up your mind you fickle bigass!
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| 33. |
17 Dec 2007 Mon 08:59 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting femme_fatal: sorry, canim, you ll have to buy. you have no other option. i know i hurt your romantic feelings. |
thehandsom now? Grrrrrrrrrrr I was busy fixing you up with Ciko!
Make up your mind you fickle bigass! |
madame butterfly,
you are offtopic again!
this is the lat warning!
further offtopics will be deleted!
as for turks what shall i do then?
i mean they are all so handsome (with big shiny noses)! i feel dizzy, i have loads of choice. luckily i got rid of sui fatass.
maybe i should try my luck with younger ones?
1980-1985?
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| 34. |
17 Dec 2007 Mon 09:01 pm |
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1980-1985 was a vintage year 
Grrrrrrrr Femme! Of course I have to keep going off-topic! I have made myself a promise to NOT talk politics or religion this week - if I can't mess about then what is left for me? The poetry section? 
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| 35. |
17 Dec 2007 Mon 09:14 pm |
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Quoting AEnigma III: 1980-1985 was a vintage year
Grrrrrrrr Femme! Of course I have to keep going off-topic! I have made myself a promise to NOT talk politics or religion this week - if I can't mess about then what is left for me? The poetry section? |
you are good at poetry
and this week is soooooooooo longgggggggggg!
break your promise pls!
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| 37. |
18 Dec 2007 Tue 12:34 pm |
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Quoting thehandsom: I am still not buying it. I agree with you about the fight for democracy was long and hard in the west and Turkey got most of western democratic values with Ataturk without a long struggle.
My country men speaks of history and politics as if they are automatized robots but at some stages in our recent history peoples more freedom demands were always suppressed by the army and the main stream ideas are all results of the army being in politics.
I am still a romantic and I believe my country deserves better and we can built it. Democracy and its values are still under construction in Turkey. The reason it is still under construction is "the strong hands". |
I agree with you TheHairiest, but I'm also skeptical because of the influence of Islamists. The army is there to ensure that they won't take over the government and I'm not so sure that Turkish public is democratized enough to fight that off by themselves.
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| 38. |
18 Dec 2007 Tue 12:50 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: Quoting thehandsom: I am still not buying it. I agree with you about the fight for democracy was long and hard in the west and Turkey got most of western democratic values with Ataturk without a long struggle.
My country men speaks of history and politics as if they are automatized robots but at some stages in our recent history peoples more freedom demands were always suppressed by the army and the main stream ideas are all results of the army being in politics.
I am still a romantic and I believe my country deserves better and we can built it. Democracy and its values are still under construction in Turkey. The reason it is still under construction is "the strong hands". |
I agree with you TheHairiest, but I'm also skeptical because of the influence of Islamists. The army is there to ensure that they won't take over the government and I'm not so sure that Turkish public is democratized enough to fight that off by themselves. |
I am not that worried about the islamists to be honest. They are in the power because people did not have viable alternative. I never ever thought Turkey could be a second Iran.
But as long as the army is in politics we will never prove ourselves we are a democratic society. Or we will never learn if we are.
The army keeps delaying the entire process basically.
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| 39. |
18 Dec 2007 Tue 12:53 pm |
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Real democracy has never come to Turkey. can you ever say anything bad about Ataturk? Turkishness? State? you cant even criticise those concepts. Democracy is not only having right to vote. We cant say we have a proper democracy as long as 301 exists and as long as the army is stronger the governments. offffffffffff !!!!!
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| 40. |
18 Dec 2007 Tue 01:16 pm |
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Quoting ciko: Real democracy has never come to Turkey. can you ever say anything bad about Ataturk? Turkishness? State? you cant even criticise those concepts. Democracy is not only having right to vote. We cant say we have a proper democracy as long as 301 exists and as long as the army is stronger the governments. offffffffffff !!!!! |
Ciko, you are too smart for a dudu!!!! Such a waste of potential... 
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| 41. |
18 Dec 2007 Tue 03:52 pm |
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dearest handsome
when you grow up you will understand my words 
im 100% sure turkey may easily share the fate of iran.
someone in TC once posted a piece of article about how bad the turkish girls (the daughters of kemal and mehmet) became copying the western style (not covering themselves with blankets). and THATS IT! IT WORKS! there comes a turkish lady (supposedly a smart one) admitting the guilt, or they should behave better in order to deserve the image of daughters of turkey.
its so easy to manipulate the nations mentality (even the better educated ones) stirring their patriotic feelings. and there you go, you have zombies, ready to reject all their rights to fit in the false ideology.
in order to get rid of the army power, you first have to work on their education about their rights (i believe only through the free mass media).
otherwise, there are loads of imams waiting at the eastern cordon to replace the army.
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