"Sheikh Sait rebellion did not have anything with any foreign powers. Not only Sheikh Sait rebellion, almost none of them had anything to do with foreigners. These lies were told by the state and most of us believed them. "

 

Didnt I already provide you proof that the perteprators of şeyh sait rebellion were the same squad that were assembled by the british in kürt teali? and that kürt teali is mentioned by the british intelligence as something that is formed to stand as s destructive force agains the ottoman empire? you know very well that he british fueled every single country and land in arabia and middle east and conquered the ottoman empire piece by piece. and so they did the same up till musul/kerkük and hatay. ottomans fought them and armenia in the east with kazım karabekir.

 

"The state decieved all of us. The biggest betrayel will be(or is) felt by  the ones who believed with their whole heart."

 

my sources are all foreign.

 

"Your second president of Turkey told you that Turks did not find any evidence to connect Sheikh Sait rebellion to  British!"

 

thought you said the state deceived and betrayed us?

 

"There is no need to go on further this."

 

first you said that the şeh sait rebellion was the result of outlawing of kurdish. but actually the proof that you claim (şark ıslahat) is done AFTER the şeyh sait rebellion. you lose more and more credibility in my eyes.

 

"(Only evidence about this are a few catalogs sent to Sheikh Said from some arm dealers of the UK. So what? A few greedy arm dealers wanted to sell weapons to Sheikh Said. They would sell arms to even satan as long as they get paid)."

 

during 1920s this is more than enough proof and reason where the grand independant weapon dealing comapnies didnt exist yet. you cannot conclude history with todays conditions. you need to study them in their own conditions. an exampe to this can be given by the russian weapon smuggle to turkey during independence war. the weapon smuggle didnt start until the moskova agreement, when the goals of russia and turkey had become common goals against the british and the french. the weapon transfer to turkey was seen as a serious offence by the british. during a world war you dont sell weapons to both countries. every country gives its wepons to its ally countries since theres a shortage in weapons. weapon production and trade were all governmental at those times.

 

"Calipha back to S Arabia? I have to give the credit to your correction. You are right. Turkey has never returned the caliphate back , just abolished it.  But however, it does not change the fact that abolishing Caliphate was one of the reasons for the rebellion."

 

it does. you made it sound like the calphate being taken away from the kurds who were under the rule of ottoman empire and given to arabs without their consulation and as if that caused a disturbence. its not. şeyh sait was a hardcore Islamist. he wasnt about nationalism.

 

"The words  Kurd and Kurdistan were banned in March 1924 as well as Kurdish language in schools."  

 

i dont see something like that even in your so called link to the şark ıslahat planı.

 

 

"in 1925  famous ´sark islahat plani´ (http://nedir.net/sark-islahat-plani.html) comes along. And after that anybody speaking Kurdish would pay a penalty fee for each word.  This is the fact."

 

i said give source. your link is.. just a link. doesnt cite to any official document. actually i asked you on purpose since there is not actual historical validity of the contents of şark ıslahat planı. its a pop culture kurdish nationalist thing, claimed by several popularist autors and columnists.

 

there is however a historical document called the lozan agreement:

 

PROTECTION OF MINORITIES.
ARTICLE 37.

Turkey undertakes that the stipulations contained in Articles 38 to 44 shall be recognised as fundamental laws, and that no law, no regulation, nor official action shall conflict or interfere with these stipulations, nor shall any law, regulation, nor official action prevail over them.

ARTICLE 38.

The Turkish Government undertakes to assure full and complete protection of life and liberty to ali inhabitants of Turkey without distinction of birth, nationality, language, race or religion.

All inhabitants of Turkey shall be entitled to free exercise, whether in public or private, of any creed, religion or belief, the observance of which shall not be incompatible with public order and good morals

 

link

 

that article was added in by the turkish delegate btw

 

 

"You can check these with all historians. You can not change these things."

 

oh believe me this conversation has taken place many times before. youre not the first one to fall for this delusion.

 

 

"Kenan Evren is a spring chicken as far as assimilation policies are concerned."

 

he is the first one.

 

"Living with less lies is always better."

 

than stop lying.

 

 

if you look at this link which shows the ottoman empires collapse history you will see that in every agreement and state of aggression you will see the the rivals of the ottoman empire demanding rights of minorities again and again, bringing this on the table in every single agreement. minority minority minority. no this is not a new thing you are right. the foreign agitation of the minorities in the ottoman empire has been going on for a really long time.

 

"I. Dünya Savaşı sonunda yapılan anlaşmalar ve barışın korunmasına veya uzun bir dönem sürdürülebilmesi için kurulan Milletler Cemiyeti, işlevinin büyük bir kısmını da ulus devletlerin bütünlüğü üzerine geliştirmiştir. Bununla beraber 1920 yılından sonra, Avrupa devletleri, kendi aralarında akraba devlet konumunda olmaları nedeniyle, birbirlerinin topraklarında yaşayan azınlıkların haklarının korunması yönünde ikili anlaşmalar yapmışlardır. Yapılan bu anlaşmaların görünen yüzü, azınlıkların hak ve hukuklarının korunması olsa da esas sebep azınlıkların, diğer bir devletin ulus devlet sistemini zedelemeye yönelik faaliyetlerde bulunulmasının önlenmesi olarak değerlendirilmiştir. Bununla beraber, I. Dünya Savaşı sonrası galip devletlerin yaptığı anlaşmalara ilâve edilen azınlıklar ile ilgili düzenlemeler ile 1920 sonrası ikili bazda azınlıkların korunmasına yönelik yapılan anlaşmalar; Avrupa bazında ilk defa “Azınlık Koruma Rejimi”ni ortaya çıkarmıştır."

here is an interview with apo by m. ali birand where apo says he received logistic and mnoetary support from foreign countries (also wipes his eyes with the same paper that he wiped his nose)

 

here is the newscast in the israeli government tv channel that shows israeli agents training pkk about the usage of anti aircraft

 

so please stop this very well known fact about pkk not being a foreign element. what you call as truth is a lie itself. i can come up with thousands of sources about this because its not a hidden thing.

 

I dont want to go over again and again.

You event do NOT know Sark islahat Plani. We discussed it zillion years ago.

http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_29206

http://www.bianet.org/bianet/siyaset/107183-27-mayis-kurtler-ve-sark-islahat-plani-kararnamesi

http://www.radikal.com.tr/Radikal.aspx?aType=RadikalYazar&articleid=952102&yazar=ceng%ddz%20%c7andar&date=30.08.2009&categoryid=97

http://www.radikal.com.tr/Radikal.aspx?aType=RadikalYazar&ArticleID=1104843

14. Maddesini (sadeleştirilmiş Türkçeyle) aktaralım: “Aslen Türk olup Kürtlüğe yenilmeye başlayan Malatya, Elaziz, Diyarbakır, Bitlis, Van, Muş, Urfa, Ergani, Hozat, Erciş, Adilcevaz, Ahlat, Palu, Çarsancak, Çemişkezek, Ovacık, Hısnımansur, Behisni, Hekimhan, Birecik, Çermik vilayet ve kaza merkezlerinde, hükümet ve belediye dairelerinde ve diğer kurum ve kuruluşlarda, okullarda, çarşı ve pazarlarda, Türkçeden başka dil kullananlar, hükümet ve belediyenin emirlerine muhalefet etmek ve direnmek suçundan cezalandırılacaktır.

Lozan Agreement and Kurds?

In Lozan Kurds never ever considered as minority. If they were it would be a different ball game.

Sheikh Sait rebellion was started some nationalists Kurds. And they had nothing to do with the Brits. There is no relation what so ever!! What you are saying that ´they belonged to the same squad and the squad was established by the brits´. God.. The entire jon Turks movements were formed in London and Paris. Entire Ittihak ve Terakki was formed in Europe and had some sort of backing from the UK and France. were they all agents?

You can keep believing every single lie the state told you such as "Kurds are actually mountain Turks" etc. Nothing stops you personaly. But majority of Turks and Kurds dont believe them anymore.

And I also want to warn you about the language and words you are using. Getting more and more aggressive. Getting more and more provocative.

 

 

 

 

 

They are not foreign elements.

They are Kurds mainly from Turkey.

Are there still people in Turkey believing that PKK was established by the CIA or British MI6?

Geez.. This is 2013!!

We lost 40.00 to 50.000 people in this war!! People´s language was banned. The names of people´s villages town were changed.. 0ver 3000 villages emptied. Millions of Kurds had to leave their villages. Yet our kurds are still ready to die, still over a million people are chanting Ocalan´s name!!

Still you are able to believe the craps of your lovely dictator Kenan Evren?

As if you have been living in a completely different universe!!

 

 

 

 

what kenan evren? o-o my links are of apo, birand and israeli news reporter whom i dont know the name of. do you want me to come up with more links like these?

 

 

 

SOURCE. I ask ou for sources. all you keep giving me is a few broken links of text and your discussion that has taken place whatever zillion years ago. what, you guys are all academicians? your words are golden?

 

just a squad?? you said yourself that they have supported them with weapons.

 

yong turks operated in europe because ottoman empire was in europe at that time! are you even thinking? this is like saying atatürk was greek because he was born in thesselanoki! young turks opened an outpost in france AFTER they got formed.

 

and no, ittihat ve terakki was not found in europe:

 

İttihat ve Terakki, 19. yüzyıl sonunda Osmanlı İmparatorluğu’nun içinde bulunduğu bunalımdan kurtulması için Kanun-ı Esasî’nin yeniden yürürlüğe konmasını isteyen öğrenciler tarafından 1889´da Askeri Tıbbiye Mektebi´nde İttihad-ı Osmanî Cemiyeti adlı gizli bir örgüt olarak kuruldu. Daha sonra İttihat ve Terakki Cemiyeti adını alacak örgüt, aynı devirde kurulmuş irili ufaklı diğer pek çok örgütle birleşerek Osmanlı coğrafyasının en güçlü teşkilatı haline geldi.

http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%B0ttihat_ve_Terakki

 

you can keep giving me false accusations of thinking "kurds to be mountain turks" but i never said that. you are drawing a straw man argument. where did you see me saying anything close to "kurds dont exist"?? please stop making up stuff.

 

my offensive language? look at yourself getting more and more angry because you cannot keep up an argument without false statements that you cannot prove. i havent aid anything insulting towards you until you called me a liar. you are projecting. another sign of a losing argument.

 

if you dont know history dont talk about it. i never said anything like kurds dont exist or denied the oppression of kurds. i just hate fake self-declared experts about the oh-great-kurdish-oppression who synchronise kurds with pkk. if 5 million people in this country were armed fighters there wouldnt be a stone over stone.

 

and your empty threats and warnings about my language are pointless. what are you gonna do, block me?

 

 

Of course they do!!

Because, if we dont learn how to live with others, the stubborness will leave us, Turks, only  Sogut and Domanic.

 

 

Do you think "others" know how to live with Turks?  

 

 

If someone asks we, Turks in disapora,  "if I know how to live with Brits/Grmans etc", my answer would be, ´NO and what are you going to do about it?"

No one has the authority to ask that question to me as long as I am paying my taxes, respecting the others and respecting the law.

So my advice will be forget about how great your nation, I am  turk, I am a kurd, we are turks  blah blah type of rethorics. If you can call yourself a goot teacher, a successful engineer etc will be better. Of course If you are ready to call yourself a good citizen of free, equal, democratic country, will be the best.

 

 

Your Germans friends already have found the solution. They dont go into useless discussions..........They simply try to burn them, in the most cowardly way.