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Meyhane
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1.       bod
5999 posts
 02 Jul 2006 Sun 03:19 pm

Birkaç meyhane nerede gerçek Türkler var ama turist yok yoklamak istiyorum.
Bu gibi meyhaneler nerede?


I want to visit some restaurants where there are genuine Turks, not tourists.
Where are there restaurants like this?


Corrections please :-S

2.       scalpel
1472 posts
 02 Jul 2006 Sun 03:33 pm


3.       bod
5999 posts
 04 Jul 2006 Tue 02:02 pm

Quoting scalpel:

Bu tür restoranlar nerededir?



I am still struggling to work out the suffixes on the first sentence......
so let's just look at this one! Why the -dir suffix on nerede???

4.       scalpel
1472 posts
 04 Jul 2006 Tue 06:09 pm

5.       HomeSick
137 posts
 05 Jul 2006 Wed 01:27 am

Quoting scalpel:


Turistlerin değil gerçek Türklerin olduğu bazı restoranlara gitmek istiyorum.Bu tür restoranlar nerededir?



"gerçek Türkler" sounds incorrect to me. Are there any fake ones ? I think dropping the adjective "gerçek" would be better. Just an opinion.

Turistlerin değil Türklerin olduğu bazı restoranlara gitmek istiyorum.Bu tür restoranlar nerededir?

6.       bod
5999 posts
 05 Jul 2006 Wed 12:47 pm

Quoting HomeSick:

Quoting scalpel:


Turistlerin değil gerçek Türklerin olduğu bazı restoranlara gitmek istiyorum.Bu tür restoranlar nerededir?



"gerçek Türkler" sounds incorrect to me. Are there any fake ones ? I think dropping the adjective "gerçek" would be better. Just an opinion.



I included "gerçek" orginially to mean "Turks that are not involved in the tourist industry" - perhaps it was a poor choice of word!

Having said that, I do not have the time left to learn prefect Turkish and need to widen my vocabluary with words that I may need while in Turkia in 6 weeks time.

7.       bod
5999 posts
 05 Jul 2006 Wed 12:50 pm

I also think "meyhane" is a better description of where I actually want to go than "restoran". Perhaps my English translation should have used "cafe" or "pub".

The purpose of such a visit would be to meet 'ordinary' Turks (not those involved in tourism) to experience the culture and language - not to sit quietly in a corner and eat good food. Meeting people is better done over drinks than food

8.       mltm
3690 posts
 05 Jul 2006 Wed 01:09 pm

Maybe it helps.. The names of places in Türkiye (as they're written in turkish)

Kahvehane (traditional cafe, there're all men, they play card games, tavla, smoke and kill the time talking)
Çay bahçesi (you drink tea in the open air )
Cafe/Kafe
Bar
Disko/disco
Club
Pub
Meyhane (bar/pub where you can eat and drink, usually rakı and meze, there's traditional turkish music etc. The ones in Çiçek Pasajı in Beyoğlu are so nice)
Gazino (it can be anything from the large coffee house to night club, but it's a bit outdated word.)
Pavyon (nowadays they don't have a very nice reputation)
Restoran/Lokanta (lokanta is the turkish word for restaurent, but people use restoran because it sounds more western and therefore stylish :o )
Kebapçı
Dönerci
Kokoreççi and the derivatives

9.       scalpel
1472 posts
 05 Jul 2006 Wed 01:51 pm



10.       scalpel
1472 posts
 05 Jul 2006 Wed 02:28 pm

11.       mltm
3690 posts
 05 Jul 2006 Wed 02:34 pm

Quoting scalpel:


lokanta is not a Turkish word but Italian.The most proper word in Turkish for lokanta/restoran is aşevi but used very rearly


Oh, really? I never bothered to search its origine because it always sounded to me so turkish.

12.       yusuf :)
0 posts
 05 Jul 2006 Wed 02:51 pm

Quoting mltm:


]
Oh, really? I never bothered to search its origine because it always sounded to me so turkish.


no its not turkish

13.       erdinc
2151 posts
 06 Jul 2006 Thu 07:04 am

I personally don't see loan words in Turkish as foreign words. I see them as Turkish words. I think any word that has become a part of our language is Turkish, no matter its origin. I would say lokanta is Turkish.

Similarly 'televizyon, telefon, doktor, ambulans' etc. are all Turkish. These are Turkish words from other origins. Their origin is not Turkish but the words are.

We have given the foreign words a new sound, a new space to exist and grow and a new soul. Many words that have been taken from foreign languages have a wider usage in Turkish than they have in their original language. We have constructive suffixes in our language to build new words from existing words. These suffixes apply also to almost all load words. To give you an example, we have, "lokanta > lokantacı > lokantacılık" and "futbol > futbolcu > futbolculuk".

If 'lokanta' is not Turkish, are you suggesting that 'lokantacılık' is not Turkish either? I would like to hear if a native Italian can tell me the meaning of "lokantacılık' without checking the Turkish dictionary.

For instance the Turkish word 'pas' is from English origin (to pass). We use it in the same meaning as they do in English. We say "Beckham, Lampard'a pas verdi".

to pass: Sports. "To transfer a ball or puck to a teammate." http://www.answers.com/pass

But 'pas' is a Turkish word. As soon as we took it from another language it became independent. Loan words have an independent life within Turkish. Therefore we can say "kız bana pas verdi" which would be impossible to guess for an English speaker.

Even though we took some nouns from foreign languages we have taken them for inspiration. Not just to copy them as they are.

Many words in English are from other origins such as Latin and French. Would you say these kind of words are not English?

For instance is the word "student" English? Is "school" English? Is "pencil" English? Are you suggesting that "student, school, pencil" and thousands of more words that native English speakers use, are not English, or are you suggesting that these English words are from other origins?

14.       scalpel
1472 posts
 06 Jul 2006 Thu 01:29 pm

15.       libralady
5152 posts
 06 Jul 2006 Thu 03:39 pm

Sorry to add my two peneth worth but aren't European Lanugauges, French, English, Spanish, Italian derived from Latin and that is where the similarities occur with volcabulary? Sorry this is not to answer the original but perhaps to answer some of the thread below.

16.       HomeSick
137 posts
 07 Jul 2006 Fri 01:49 am

Quoting scalpel:

Quoting bod:

Quoting HomeSick:

Quoting scalpel:


Turistlerin değil gerçek Türklerin olduğu bazı restoranlara gitmek istiyorum.Bu tür restoranlar nerededir?



"gerçek Türkler" sounds incorrect to me. Are there any fake ones ? I think dropping the adjective "gerçek" would be better. Just an opinion.



I included "gerçek" orginially to mean "Turks that are not involved in the tourist industry" - perhaps it was a poor choice of word!

Having said that, I do not have the time left to learn prefect Turkish and need to widen my vocabluary with words that I may need while in Turkia in 6 weeks time.



Not because "gerçek" was the best choice,but bacause it had been in the original text (genuine)I didn't see any risk to use it, even if i knew there would be some objections.What I want to do with a translation and correction is to follow the original text faithfully and not to change it unless really needed, so that learners would be less confused.Well,if it had been me, I would have used "sadece (or çoğunlukla) Türklerin" instead of "gerçek Türklerin"



Hey I just hope to help people while posting my opinions, not to offend anybody. So if I did, I am really sorry

17.       bod
5999 posts
 12 Jul 2006 Wed 01:55 am

Quoting HomeSick:

Quoting scalpel:

Quoting bod:

Quoting HomeSick:

Quoting scalpel:


Turistlerin değil gerçek Türklerin olduğu bazı restoranlara gitmek istiyorum.Bu tür restoranlar nerededir?



"gerçek Türkler" sounds incorrect to me. Are there any fake ones ? I think dropping the adjective "gerçek" would be better. Just an opinion.



I included "gerçek" orginially to mean "Turks that are not involved in the tourist industry" - perhaps it was a poor choice of word!

Having said that, I do not have the time left to learn prefect Turkish and need to widen my vocabluary with words that I may need while in Turkia in 6 weeks time.



Not because "gerçek" was the best choice,but bacause it had been in the original text (genuine)I didn't see any risk to use it, even if i knew there would be some objections.What I want to do with a translation and correction is to follow the original text faithfully and not to change it unless really needed, so that learners would be less confused.Well,if it had been me, I would have used "sadece (or çoğunlukla) Türklerin" instead of "gerçek Türklerin"



Hey I just hope to help people while posting my opinions, not to offend anybody. So if I did, I am really sorry



I can't speak for the rest of the contributors to this thread - but it was I who chose the word gerçek. You have not offended me. I really do appreciate everyone's help - if it were not for the help from this site I would not have any grasp of Türkçe at all........

My choice of words often comes from a limited vocabulary which I am trying to enhance and expand.

18.       bod
5999 posts
 18 Jul 2006 Tue 09:29 pm

Quoting mltm:

Kahvehane (traditional cafe, there're all men, they play card games, tavla, smoke and kill the time talking)



Men only

What would happen if I were to walk into a kahvehane with kız arkadaşım?

19.       erdinc
2151 posts
 18 Jul 2006 Tue 09:38 pm

Other man who are playing cards, having a chat or drinking a tea would freeze and would stare at your girlfirend like they were seeing a girl for the first time. I think eveybody would stop doing what they are doing and would be focused on you.

Of course this is only so in the traditional places.

20.       bod
5999 posts
 20 Jul 2006 Thu 01:22 am

Quoting erdinc:

Other man who are playing cards, having a chat or drinking a tea would freeze and would stare at your girlfirend like they were seeing a girl for the first time. I think eveybody would stop doing what they are doing and would be focused on you.

Of course this is only so in the traditional places.



But would be thrown out / refused service ???

21.       erdinc
2151 posts
 20 Jul 2006 Thu 02:45 am

I don't think so. People are just curious about strangers. Especially a tourist in a local kahve would be a big surprise if it is not a touristic town.

In a big city or in a touristic town nobody would care much. On the other hand, an ordinary traditional town or village would be very different.

I think what would happen is that, they would all think that you have lost your way and would try to help you. First they would offer you a seat. Then some tea and maybe water, afterwards some cigarettes of course. I think if you would talk a few words Turkish they would be so surprised that even people outside the cafe would come to see you.

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