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Correct sentence structure
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| 10. |
26 Jul 2006 Wed 02:54 pm |
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Quoting caliptrix: Quoting Daydreamer: I'd bet my head that the correct version is "Bugün çalışmam lazım. Is the -mak/-mek also possible with lazım? :-S |
You said very important point:
Bugün çalışmak lazım
This is necessary for everyone
Bugün çalışmam lazım
This is a necessity just for me! |
Ah!
That might just answer a question in another thread 
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| 11. |
26 Jul 2006 Wed 02:57 pm |
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Quoting caliptrix: "bugün lazım çalışmak" is too strange! I am not sure, let's ask to erdinç |
When you come across such an expression, for example, in a poem, just try to ask Erdinç if you have got it correctly. I am sure he would help you understand it.
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| 12. |
26 Jul 2006 Wed 02:59 pm |
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Quoting cyrano: Quoting caliptrix: "bugün lazım çalışmak" is too strange! I am not sure, let's ask to erdinç |
When you come across such an expression, for example, in a poem, just try to ask Erdinç if you have got it correctly. I am sure he would help you understand it. |
Erdinç is not the only person here who speaks fluent Turkish!!!
At least I hope not 
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| 13. |
26 Jul 2006 Wed 03:08 pm |
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Quoting bod: Quoting cyrano: Quoting caliptrix: "bugün lazım çalışmak" is too strange! I am not sure, let's ask to erdinç |
When you come across such an expression, for example, in a poem, just try to ask Erdinç if you have got it correctly. I am sure he would help you understand it. |
Erdinç is not the only person here who speaks fluent Turkish!!!
At least I hope not |
I was kidding
I think bugün lazım çalışmak is too strange practically. But it may be ok for grammar, I am not a teacher, so i referred him.
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| 14. |
26 Jul 2006 Wed 03:14 pm |
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Right now I am only interested in language that I can use practically......I have too mch to try and cram in during the next three weeks without worrying about things of literary interest only :-S
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| 15. |
26 Jul 2006 Wed 04:20 pm |
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Quoting cyrano:
Cyrano, Aslan'ı kırbaçladı. = Cyrano whipped Aslan.
Cyrano kırbaçladı Aslan'ı. = Cyrano whipped Aslan.
Kırbaçladı Aslan'ı Cyrano. = Cyrano whipped Aslan.
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There are always small nuances when word order changes. Here is a pdf file on this issue:
http://www.citebase.org/fulltext?format=application%2Fpdf&identifier=oai%3AarXiv.org%3Acmp-lg%2F9605008
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| 16. |
26 Jul 2006 Wed 04:28 pm |
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Yes "lazım çalışmak" is not a usual word order. I can imagine it in a poem but not elsewhere.
" Lazım " (needed) is the predicate and it takes the objects as gitmek, gitmem, gitmen etc. and the object comes before the predicate for "lazım".
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| 17. |
26 Jul 2006 Wed 06:10 pm |
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Quoting cyrano: What you have said is correct for regular turkish sentences. Turkish seems to distract itself with details first and later comes to the main point, namely verb. However to end with a verb isn't always necessary for a sentence to be correct.
Cyrano, Aslan kırbaçladı. = Cyrano whipped Aslan.
Cyrano kırbaçladı Aslan. = Cyrano whipped Aslan.
Kırbaçladı Aslan Cyrano. = Cyrano whipped Aslan.
All are correct. |
...oh no, that is not correct...this is much closer to reality:
Aslan, Cyrano kırbaçladı. = Aslan whipped Cyrano.
Aslan kırbaçladı Cyrano. = Aslan whipped Cyrano.
Kırbaçladı Cyrano Aslan. = Aslan whipped Cyrano.
Ehi! 
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| 18. |
26 Jul 2006 Wed 07:28 pm |
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Quoting bod: Am I right in thinking that without exception all correctly formed Türkçe sentences must end with either a verb or an interrogative particle associated with the verb? |
This is not quite right. It is possible to build sentences without putting the verb to the end. It is not that the verb must go to the end. It can be somewhere else. But, yes the regular structure is like this:
Subject + Object + Predicate.
This is the basic structure. The predicate can be a verb or a noun or adjective. Unlike English we don't have the verb "to be" but we do have noun sentences (isim cümlesi).
In fact, in Turkish sentences are devided into two groups according their predicate: Verb sentences and noun sentences.
Gerçekten de, Türkçede cümleler yüklemi bakımından ikiye ayrılır: Fiil cümlesi ve isim cümlesi.
In this content adjectives fall into the second category (noun sentences).
This is a noun sentence:
"Hava çok güzel"
It doesn't have a verb. It is noun sentence. It has a predicate (güzel) which is a noun or adjective.
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| 19. |
27 Jul 2006 Thu 12:34 pm |
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Quoting erdinc: Quoting cyrano:
Cyrano, Aslan'ı kırbaçladı. = Cyrano whipped Aslan.
Cyrano kırbaçladı Aslan'ı. = Cyrano whipped Aslan.
Kırbaçladı Aslan'ı Cyrano. = Cyrano whipped Aslan.
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There are always small nuances when word order changes. Here is a pdf file on this issue:
http://www.citebase.org/fulltext?format=application%2Fpdf&identifier=oai%3AarXiv.org%3Acmp-lg%2F9605008
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WoW Erdinç - you certainly manage to find some technical linguistic articles!!!
Not exactly bedtime reading
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| 20. |
27 Jul 2006 Thu 12:41 pm |
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Quoting erdinc: Quoting bod: Am I right in thinking that without exception all correctly formed Türkçe sentences must end with either a verb or an interrogative particle associated with the verb? |
This is not quite right. It is possible to build sentences without putting the verb to the end. It is not that the verb must go to the end. It can be somewhere else. But, yes the regular structure is like this:
Subject + Object + Predicate.
This is the basic structure. The predicate can be a verb or a noun or adjective. Unlike English we don't have the verb "to be" but we do have noun sentences (isim cümlesi).
In fact, in Turkish sentences are devided into two groups according their predicate: Verb sentences and noun sentences. |
Going back to a sentence earlier in this thread:
Bugün çalışmak lazım
What is the predictate - is it lazım or is it çalışmak lazım?
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