Over in this thread the -meksiniz suffix got a mention.....would this be a correct usage of this suffix?

Çalışmaksınız para kazanmak istiyorum
I want to earn money without working

" Çalışmaksızın para kazanmak istiyorum "

This sentence is alright. Usually "-meden" is prefered over the "-meksizin". So it would be better this way:

" Çalışmadan para kazanmak istiyorum "

çalışmadan : without working

"Ben de istiyorum ama çalışmadan para kazanmak çok zor."

what is the meksiniz suffix and meden suffix?

Which tense do they belong to ?and where can i check them out ?

They don't belong to any tense. These are verbal adverb suffixes.

As I mentioned in one of my previous replies, the two languages are fundementally different.

A verbal adverb is an adverb that is derived from a verb.
A verbal adejective is an adjective that is derived from a verb.

Example:
Call me when you come.
Gelince beni ara.


English uses preposition such as "when", "while" etc. We have suffixes such as -ince -meden etc.

In this sentence "when you come" is met by "gelince". The -ince suffix means "when + verb".

bakınca : when looking
gelince: when coming

What is "bakınca"? It is a verbal adverb.

Koşarak gel.
Come running.

"Koşarak" again is a verbal adverb. It is an adeverb because it modifies the verb "gelmek" by telling how gelmek should be done. It is a verbal adverb because it is derived from a verb (koşmak).

Koşmadan gel.
Come without running.

Again koşmadan is a verbal adverb.

We make adjectives from verbs as well.
"koşan adam"
"the man who runs"

It must be Çalışmaksızın not Çalışmaksınız

Am I correct?

Evet, haklısın bliss.

-meden önce is used for 'before'. Maybe this is what you ment.

Sen gelmeden önce - Before you came

Yes, kartal is right. Teşekkürler yardımınız için.

It means "before" because the "önce". Verbal adverbs are used together with normla adverbs to build adverbal clauses. There can be adverbal clauses of time, adverbal clauses of reason etc. I remember writing on this issue but I can' find it.

Anyway. Here are examples:

(Verb stem)-dikten sonra : after V-ing
(Verb stem)-meden önce : before V-ing

(Verb stem)-diğin için : because you V-ed
(Verb stem)-diğim için : because I V-ed
(Verb stem)-diği için : because he/she/it V-ed

(Verb stem)-diğin zaman : when you V-
(Verb stem)-diğim zaman : when I V-
(Verb stem)-diği zaman : when he/she/it V-

Going back to the begining of the thread......
Erdinç said that "çalışmaksızın para kazanmak istiyorum" is OK but that "çalışmadan para kazanmak istiyorum" is better.

Why is the latter better?
What is the difference in meaning?
When is -meksizin used?

And while we are on the subject.....how is -mezden used?

The -maksızın suffix is going to be dropped in the future. We are now in the middle of such a change. I think it will take 30 years untill that suffix is gone. Our language changes very fast. If you live within the language (we all live within the language but just don't realize it) and if you watch carefully you can see these changes. In Turkish these are amazing because many of them will fit in a person's lifetime while this will not happen in many other languages.

It would be very interesting to talk about the Turkish in 30 years. I can see it.

So when and how is -mezden used?

You don't use -mezden but you use -meden. Ignore -mezden. It is an uneducated person's speech.

Incorrect: Siz gelmezden önce.
Correct: Siz gelmeden önce.

This will be corrected in the next update of winmekmak if I have time for it.

Last time I have corrected conjugation problems and now you see a warning that they are not recommended. I didn't have enough time to revise gerunds etc. It would have delayed the release too much.

I have a qouestion about this.Can you create this sentence from negative word:
çalışmak-to work çalışmamak-not to work
koşmak-to run koşmamak-not to run
Çalışmadan para kazanmak istiyorum.
O koşmadan gitti.

Yes you can. It is not common because the "-meden" suffix already has a negative suffix -me and it will be negative + negative so it's not common but it is possible. Here is an example:

Dinlemeden konuşmamak gerekir.
Normal translation: One must not talk without listening.
Literal translation: It is necessary not to talk without listening.
gerekir: It is necessary
konuşmamak : not to talk
dinlemeden : without listening.

But instead the negative infinitive (konuşmamak) you could use the negative imperative (konuşma) and for sure this is more common. This is the main structure to use when you want to say "Don't do this without doing that."

Dinlemeden konuşma.
Don't talk without listening.

Bilmeden konuşma.
Don't talk without knowing.

Sütünü içmeden yatma.
Don't go to bed without drinking your milk.

Duş almadan havuza girmeyiniz.
Don't use the pool without taking a shower.

So simply "before you come"?

Sorry, I mixed two different things. It is not the same with verbal nouns and normal nouns.

Normal nouns:
N-den sonra > before N
N-den önce > after N

okuldan sonra : after school
tatilden önce : before holiday

Verbal nouns:
V-meden önce : before V-ing
V-dikten sonra : after V-ing