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Location order
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| 10. |
08 Aug 2006 Tue 01:38 pm |
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| 11. |
08 Aug 2006 Tue 02:05 pm |
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It's much more clear, now Scalpel, thanks for clarifying.
Guys, let's simplify the examples in order to see the difference much clear.
'Istanbul'dan Ankara'ya gidiyorum.'
'Ankara'ya Istanbul'dan gidiyorum.'
Simple sentence. Simple meaning. Bu we can focus on the same location order issue.
Q: Istanbul'dan nereye gidiyorsun?
A: Istanbul'dan Ankara'ya gidiyorum.
But, be ready to get the difference:
Q: Ankara'ya nereden gidiyorsun?
A: Ankara'ya Istanbul'dan gidiyorum.
There you go. And Here's what you shouldn't do:
Q: Ankara'ya nereden gidiyorsun?
A: Istanbul'dan Ankara'ya gidiyorum.
Q: 
When the question emphasizes 'From where?', The answer should stress where it is.
In my book, this is the difference. 
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| 12. |
08 Aug 2006 Tue 02:19 pm |
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Quoting scalpel: p.s. dear Bod,you're an advanced learner and it's time for you to know that every word with -mek/-mak is noun (not verb) according to Turkish grammar. |
Now I am really confused 
Firstly, I am not an advanced learner - I have only been learning Türkçe for 8 months!!! Although I understand many of the grammar rules, I cannot build sentences quickly enough to have any hope to saying them, let alone understanding a sentence spoken to me 
But perhaps more importantly - if -mek / -mak word forms are not verbs then I need to rethink everything I thought I knew about Türkçe. Every grammar book and language book I have looked at says that "bilmek" is the verb "to know" and "olmak" is the verb "to be". Other Turkish resources (including the lessons on this site) promote this view.......
Are you really saying that "bilmek" is a noun?
Or are we talking about different terminology?
Is it actually a "verbal noun"? Something which English doesn't have so I have a great deal of difficulty in really understanding
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| 13. |
08 Aug 2006 Tue 04:31 pm |
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| 14. |
08 Aug 2006 Tue 04:52 pm |
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Quoting scalpel: I knew you'd be confused. |
Hey - thanks for that 
Quoting scalpel: have no idea why they call a word with -mek/-mak a verb when teaching Turkish to the foreigners.But here in Turkey every grammar book at any level for Turkish students say that -mek/-mak is the most common suffix in Turkish to form a noun from a verb stem, and this suffix can be used with all verb stems. |
So, in Turkish, what would you consider the most basic form of a verb / noun (call it which you like) - the verb stem or the -mek / -mak form?
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| 15. |
17 Jun 2007 Sun 10:04 pm |
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Quoting bod: So, in Turkish, what would you consider the most basic form of a verb / noun (call it which you like) - the verb stem or the -mek / -mak form? |
This confuses me too now :-S
This is how I always used to see it:
eg:
gelmek ~ verb
gelme ~ verbal noun
gel ~ verb stem
Is that the wrong way of seeing it then? 
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| 16. |
17 Jun 2007 Sun 10:59 pm |
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gel+mek is a "fiilimsi" or "isim-fiil" which means it's a noun which describes an act.
"fiilimsiler" (literally: the ones that are like verb, verb-alikes) or "isim-fiiller".
-mek, -mak suffixes together with the -me, -ma, -ış, -iş, -uş, -üş suffixes make "fiilimsiler" out of verb stems.
-mek, -mak suffixes are also like test suffixes for verbs.
What we usually say to distinguish the verbs from the nouns, we put the -mek, -mak suffix at the end of a word , and if it makes sense, then it's a verb.
"gel+mek", gelmek makes sense
"masa+mak" is a noun, masamak does not make sense, then gel is a verb stem but masa is not a verb stem.
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| 17. |
18 Jun 2007 Mon 12:01 am |
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Quoting mltm: gel+mek is a "fiilimsi" or "isim-fiil" which means it's a noun which describes an act. |
Hm, guess "infinitive" is the word to use then instead of "verb".
Anyway, I can't order a drink with linguistic terms, I better give those a break and concentrate on making myself understandable in daily life 
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| 18. |
18 Jun 2007 Mon 07:49 am |
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Quoting Elisa: Quoting bod: So, in Turkish, what would you consider the most basic form of a verb / noun (call it which you like) - the verb stem or the -mek / -mak form? |
This confuses me too now :-S
This is how I always used to see it:
eg:
gelmek ~ verb
gelme ~ verbal noun
gel ~ verb stem
Is that the wrong way of seeing it then? |
gelmek & gelme - they are both verbal nouns. We call them isim-fiil (noun form of a verb). The following may be clear for you.
Different case suffixes make some difference in usage.
Nominative case (No suffix)
-mek form is used more.
gitmek istiyorum.
gitmek mi zor kalmak mı?
-e/-i cases and possessive suffixes
-me form is used almost always.
sana gelme-ye karar verdim.
sana gelme-yi düşÃ¼nüyorum
sana gelme-m iyi olacak.
In theory -mek is possible but never used.
sana gelmeğ-e karar verdim.
sana gelmeğ-i düşÃ¼nüyorum
sana gelmeğ-im iyi olacak.
-de case
Both forms are possible and most of the times they are close in meaning.
eve gitmek-te fayda var.
eve gitme-de fayda var.
-den case
Both forms are possible but there may be difference.
eve gitmek-ten vazgeçtim.
eve gitmek-ten gitme-ye fark var.
eve gitme-den gitme-ye fark var.
with postpositions
-mek is used mostly. See nominative case also.
işe gitmek için erken kalktım.
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| 19. |
23 Jun 2007 Sat 03:40 am |
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Quoting bod: Quoting scalpel: 3) Ankara' ya trenle yolculuğu Istanbul'dan etmek istiyorum. |
Are you sure this one is gramatically correct?
The verb is "yolculu etmek" - can a subject split the infinitive or is this just poor usage of the language?
We have a famous saying in English from "Star Trek" - to boldly go where no man has gone before - here "to go" is the infinitive of the verb so "boldly" is not allowed to split the verb. To be correct it should be to go boldly where.....
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Actually, I agree with bod. It is very strange usage. "yolculuğu ... etmek istiyorum" could be ok as grammar but very "un-natural".
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| 20. |
23 Jun 2007 Sat 11:32 am |
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Quoting si++:
sana gelme-m iyi olacak.
In theory -mek is possible but never used.
sana gelmeğ-e karar verdim.
sana gelmeğ-i düşÃ¼nüyorum
sana gelmeğ-im iyi olacak.
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In theory one could say that they are also not possible because:
The mak/mek eki of the isim fiiller, is used to descrive/say the general name of moves. Words that take this suffix, cannot take iyelik ekleri, çokluk eki, belirtme eki, yönelme eki and tamlayan eki.
Taking this as an official grammar rule, it is also no longer possible in theory 
Benim gel-meğ-im --> gel-me-m, gel-iş-i-m
Gelmekler, gitmekler --> gel-me-ler, git-me-ler, gelişler, gidişler
Kitap okumağı severim -->okumayı
Çocuk kitap okumağa başladı --> Okumaya
As you can see, when one of the above mentioned suffixes is used, mak/mak eki is not longer used, but replaced by the suffix ma/me or ış-iş-uş-üş. (this last one is used when it is about more personal movements/behaviors).
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