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A question about the word "gitmeye"
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| 20. |
24 Aug 2006 Thu 09:24 pm |
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Quoting CANLI: Erdinç,
Can we call eylem + (y) Iş infinitive too ?
like
Anlamak.....anlayış
Gülmek.....Gülüş |
No. These are permanent nouns. The -ış,iş,uş,üş suffix is a verbal noun suffix.
In Turkish the -ma, -me suffix in gitmeye, okumaya, yürümeyi, bakmaya is the short infinitive. You can call it a verbal noun suffix if it makes you happy. I used to call it verbal noun suffix.
The truth is that the -ma, -me suffix has two independent functions. Except the negative suffix -me, ma which we don't need to mebtion here, we have a verbal noun suffix -me, -ma and a shorth initive suffix -me, -ma.
1. to be a short infinitive as in gitmeye, koşmaya, yürümeye , bakmaya. This first usage is not limited. It can apply to any verb. Notive that ıt has no nominative version because nominative takes full infinitive. The short infinitive exists only in dative, accusative, genitive cases for all verbs.
2. to be a verbal noun suffix and to build permanent nouns such as yüzme (swimming) , okuma (reading) , yazma (writing). This second usage is called gerund in English. It is limited to very few verbs. There are few verbs that can have the gerund version in Turkish.
Most sources just call it verbal noun suffix and leave it that way. I would prefer using to different names for them. We have already one -me -ma suffix which is the negative suffix. Instead two -me, -ma's we would have three if we call one verbal noun and the other short infinitive.
Anyway, the naming is not the most important thing as long as you can use it. The "-ış,iş,uş,üş" works exactly the same way as the second usage (marked as number 2 above) of -me, -ma (not the first usage).
These are permanent names derived from verbs: gidiş (departure) , bakış (glance) , geliş (arrival).
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| 21. |
25 Aug 2006 Fri 02:17 pm |
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Ok,let me get this right,
First,not all verbs can take the 'me,ma' suffix as in the usage 2,i mean to become a gerund,it is limited for some verbs
And second the suffix 'Iş' is same with 'mA' in this usage,and not all verbs would apply to this suffix ?
İt is limited with some verbs too ? right ?
At my book, the 'mA' 'mAk' 'Iş' all become under same title which is Adlaştırma
That is why i thought all under same category
İt is HİTİT by the way
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| 22. |
25 Aug 2006 Fri 02:48 pm |
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Yes, you are right. The -iş is a verbal noun suffix and is limited to certain verbs just like the verbal noun suffix -ma.
The -ma infinitive and the -mak infinitive isn't limited.
Example:
gitmek (to go) > gidiş (departure)
gezmek (to walk around) > geziş (non existent)
I remember some sources listing the -iş as a third infinitive. I don't remember now where I have read this. There is no concencus on these issues.
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| 23. |
25 Aug 2006 Fri 03:00 pm |
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Çok Tşk Erdinç,
Anladım,
Very enlightening as usual
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| 24. |
26 Aug 2006 Sat 11:26 am |
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[QUOTE SOURCE=CANLI
Thanks Canli that has really helped.
One thing I really cannot get into my head is (of course I am only just beginning so this may sound stupid to you). Case s being added to verbs. If this is done in Turkish which verbs do you add cases to.
Thanks in advance for your help it is much appriciated by a hopless beginner like me
Jo-Anne
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| 25. |
26 Aug 2006 Sat 11:35 am |
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Bir şey değil,
İ done nothing really
And,not really,its not sound stupid to me,i'm a beginner too as well,but we can say semi beginner,,lol
And i know the difficult in learning it as well
İ think exchanging knowledge is very useful for us to learn,it may let us understand something we didn't even think to ask about
What do you mean exactly by the s case being added to the verb ?
you mean (Iş ) being added to the verb root as in
Gediş ?
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