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İ have an opinion......
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| 10. |
02 May 2007 Wed 12:15 am |
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Quoting CANLI: But of course not walking naked,cause people wont accept that far!
as long as they are covering their bodies, then its ok
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These two points in bold are so open to personal interpretations/comments that by interpreting them the way you please, you can even hang, let's say, me! 
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| 11. |
02 May 2007 Wed 01:08 am |
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I agree with you Canli. The main problem is that we live in men's world which they inflicted with greed, insecurities, immaturity as dominant traits in our societies! Women are also at fault for the current situation, but they are the ones that are brainwashed as opposed to who is doing the brainwashing. We have been squandered and then blamed for not being strong enough.
Wherever you go, it's infected with patriarchy like a plague. Whether it's Islamic world or the USA (or any other western country). One came up with the idea of covering women up head to toe without any freedom about it (yes, some women want to cover themselves up, but are they also given power, money, and 4 virgin, headscarfed husbands???), while the other brought explicit degradation of women through seeing nothing in them but sexual objects, preferably naked. There is criticism to both sides. While radical religiousness is inflicted with intolerance and discrimination, secularism that has no concern for ethics and morality becomes a filthy pigsty run by the greedy dominant class. Religions, at least TRY to preach morality.
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| 12. |
02 May 2007 Wed 01:46 am |
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| 13. |
02 May 2007 Wed 01:53 am |
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İts not here matter West or East,the problem is in men's minds !
No matter where he is,what he do,what position he is in,what he see in women first is their bodies,not their minds.
Then try to control her in any way they can !
Even it became indication too,to be secularism is to take off women headscarf or else you are not secularism?!!!
How about to be secularism is to give human his freedom ,to be not is to take it away ?!
And just forget about controlling women,stop making issue what they wear for its their own freedom,and value their minds!
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| 14. |
02 May 2007 Wed 02:28 am |
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Quoting vineyards: With women so responsive to male dominance (either material or sipiritual) submissiveness seems to be a natural trait on their part. |
Excuse me??? Please just tell me something, does speaking Turkish seem natural to you??? That's really weird if it does!
Please, don't confuse what we are being brainwashed with (all the spoken and unspoken messages that shape our thinking) with what's 'natural'! Obviously, you don't know what's natural to women and didn't use enough common sense if these are your ideas.
I think that women who AGREE or WILLINGLY choose a man that dominates them in some way in exchange for being rich, are manipulative, lazy women who just agree to play the same games their 'husbands' play. It's not about submissiveness, but about manipulativeness. Obviously, women who were raised in the idea that they're worthless and have to have a man to protect them, are just victims of horrendous culture or family.
I agree with you that men are also victims of this sick system. They are often expected to do work that is obviously exploitation. That's why it's also in their stake to change this social structure. I have an uncle who works beyond capacity, ruining his health and life, in order to support his family because his wife is a lazy bitch who doesn't think she's responsible for anything other then spending his money and bitching around all day.
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| 15. |
02 May 2007 Wed 03:10 am |
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Quoting CANLI: And just forget about controlling women,stop making issue what they wear for its their own freedom,and value their minds! |
Yes! I'd rather wear a scarf then live up to some sick male-created ideas about beauty or be looked at as a sex object. If it's her choice to wear a headscarf, then of course! - provided that it's not connected with any form of submission to a man (that regularly watches porn or does other similar shit), and the woman is fully independent and doesn't take crap from anyone.
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| 16. |
02 May 2007 Wed 08:16 am |
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Quoting catwoman: Yes! I'd rather wear a scarf then live up to some sick male-created ideas about beauty or be looked at as a sex object. |
No!!! I will not wear a scarf, long skirts, or any other type of clothes because men have ideas about women being a sex object. It's not my problem that they have those stupid thoughts. Their ideas should change, they should be raised according to equality between women and men, in acts and in thoughts. Dressing - in what way - to avoid their aberration (yes, that is what it is: seeing women as 'things'), means I give in. And I will NOT do that!! If I want to wear miniskirts and tight tops or longsleeved blouses with ankle long skirts, it is MY choice and I'll wear it because I like those clothes fitting me well, because I think I look pretty in it, because I like my picture in the mirror, because I feel good wearing it. But never, never I will want to wear clothes because of the idea to 'protect' (?) me from stupid thoughts of Neanderthaler males!
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| 17. |
02 May 2007 Wed 11:07 am |
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Quoting Trudy: Quoting catwoman: Yes! I'd rather wear a scarf then live up to some sick male-created ideas about beauty or be looked at as a sex object. |
No!!! I will not wear a scarf, long skirts, or any other type of clothes because men have ideas about women being a sex object. QUOTE]
You miss the point here !
Im not saying we wear Hijab to be covered ,and hide,
As i said before we wear Hijab as a believe !
The point is, even wearing Hijab ,even if women are covered as you say,but men STILL looking at as as objects not as equal individual and forget about gender .
Not only in Eastern but also in Western Veiled women suffering from same problem too.
So the problem is not veiled or not, the problem is in the way men look at women and try to control her under any name,protection,Secularism,tradition,modern....ect
Under any way,name they try to control women.
By tradition,they say, ohh no dont do that its ayip.
By modern, ohh no do that or dont do that or else they will call you not modern.
By protection.....
By Secularism.......
All are same,and the idea is just one
Controlling women !
Of course every women can play the game,can make man thing he control her and the truth is the other way arround.
BUT... NOPE ... that is enough ... We dont want to play it.
And a little advice to men , try to be nice with us,day will come and women will be in charge and you wouldnt know what is hitting you 
Oppss have i said that out loud ? lol |
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| 18. |
02 May 2007 Wed 11:10 am |
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Quoting CANLI: Quoting Trudy: Quoting catwoman: Yes! I'd rather wear a scarf then live up to some sick male-created ideas about beauty or be looked at as a sex object. |
No!!! I will not wear a scarf, long skirts, or any other type of clothes because men have ideas about women being a sex object. |
You miss the point here ! |
No Canli, you miss the point. Your first post was about the idea men looking at women as if they were toys. That is what Catwoman responded to and what I responded to. I never said anything about wearing a scarf out of religion. I'm talking about dressing different because of men!
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| 19. |
02 May 2007 Wed 12:03 pm |
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Quoting Trudy:
No Canli, you miss the point. Your first post was about the idea men looking at women as if they were toys. That is what Catwoman responded to and what I responded to. I never said anything about wearing a scarf out of religion. I'm talking about dressing different because of men! |
+100000000
That i accept, i was afraid of having missunderstanding so thought to point it out 
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| 20. |
02 May 2007 Wed 03:55 pm |
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Quoting Trudy: stupid Neanderthaler males! |
Stupid Neanderthaler males versus clever homosapiens females! 
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