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I have found some interesting similarities between turkish and estonian
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| 1. |
11 Oct 2006 Wed 07:18 pm |
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first thing I noticed was that the ending of infinitive forms of verbs (-mak) is similar with estonian, because in estonian the equivalent for -mak is -ma. the second thing is the verb 'olmak' - in estonian 'olma' (actually 'olEma' but this is not so important).
a grammatical similarity is also that by verbs it is not needed to add the personal pronouns: okuyorsun, not sen okuyorsun, and in estonian: loed, not sina loed.
by the way, the word 'you' (singular) is in turkish 'sen' and in estonian 'sina'.
when I find more I will write it down and put on here
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| 2. |
11 Oct 2006 Wed 07:22 pm |
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Quoting eestlane: first thing I noticed was that the ending of infinitive forms of verbs (-mak) is similar with estonian, because in estonian the equivalent for -mak is -ma. the second thing is the verb 'olmak' - in estonian 'olma' (actually 'olEma' but this is not so important).
a grammatical similarity is also that by verbs it is not needed to add the personal pronouns: okuyorsun, not sen okuyorsun, and in estonian: loed, not sina loed.
by the way, the word 'you' (singular) is in turkish 'sen' and in estonian 'sina'.
when I find more I will write it down and put on here |
Keep us informing. Olmak was actually bolmak in old Turkish.
Hungarian has vol- for bol- similarly.
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| 3. |
11 Oct 2006 Wed 08:20 pm |
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"a grammatical similarity is also that by verbs it is not needed to add the personal pronouns: okuyorsun, not sen okuyorsun, and in estonian: loed, not sina loed."
Excellent topic. I've noticed it is a characteristic of some European languages too: Latin, Italian, Spanish (not sure about Portuguese, but I suppose) and almost all Slavic languages. It seems that some language branches are more closely related than we speculate? Oh, I like this. 
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| 4. |
11 Oct 2006 Wed 08:34 pm |
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Quoting duda: "a grammatical similarity is also that by verbs it is not needed to add the personal pronouns: okuyorsun, not sen okuyorsun, and in estonian: loed, not sina loed."
Excellent topic. I've noticed it is a characteristic of some European languages too: Latin, Italian, Spanish (not sure about Portuguese, but I suppose) and almost all Slavic languages. It seems that some language branches are more closely related than we speculate? Oh, I like this.
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Well actually it happened like this for Turkish.
Gelir-im < gelir men
Gelir-sin < gelir sen
Gelir < gelir ol
Gelir-iz < gelir miz
Gelir-siniz < gelir siz
Gelir-ler < gelir ollar
So we have personal pronouns which have become suffixes in Today's Turkish.
Latin and Italian (probably Spanish too) makes me think that they had personal pronouns after the verb forms similarly.
Italian has always an -o for the 1st person which makes me think that it was once ego (me).
pens-o, ved-o, veng-o vad-o etc.
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| 5. |
11 Oct 2006 Wed 08:55 pm |
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Oh, it is the very same with Slavic languages. There is an example from my own language, Serbo-Croatian (i write it in Latin letters, for we use both alphabets):
I am here: Ja sam ovde.
Ovde sam.
I was there: Ja sam bila tamo.
Bila sam tamo.
(Or: Tamo sam bila, depending on nuance).
I will be there: Ja ću biti tamo.
Biću tamo.
In this last case, you can even see the kind of agluttination - "ću biti" gives "biću". And in first two of three examples, the enclitic "sam" is pronounced as a part of preceding word, just as suffix.
It becames even more interesting when you compare personal suffixes from medieval and proto-Slavic, but that would be too much for one post.
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| 6. |
12 Oct 2006 Thu 07:50 am |
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Quoting duda: Oh, it is the very same with Slavic languages. There is an example from my own language, Serbo-Croatian (i write it in Latin letters, for we use both alphabets):
I am here: Ja sam ovde.
Ovde sam.
I was there: Ja sam bila tamo.
Bila sam tamo.
(Or: Tamo sam bila, depending on nuance).
I will be there: Ja ću biti tamo.
Biću tamo.
In this last case, you can even see the kind of agluttination - "ću biti" gives "biću". And in first two of three examples, the enclitic "sam" is pronounced as a part of preceding word, just as suffix.
It becames even more interesting when you compare personal suffixes from medieval and proto-Slavic, but that would be too much for one post.
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Yes, I think it happens in many languages. The words used frequently may become suffixes/prefixes. Turkish is a good example for this process.
For example "ile" (with) can be used as a suffix or a postposition.
senin ile or senin-le (with you)
bıçak ile or bıçak-la (with knife)
Actually most of the suffixes in Turkish should have been developed this way.
In French for example j' (je) or t' (tu) are considered a prefix.
j'aime la vie.
je t'aime.
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| 7. |
12 Oct 2006 Thu 09:49 am |
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i dunno if its related with the subject or not but i also found few similarities between estonian and turkish ppl
*,man kind ,we,always greedy in both races...
*girls like to be spoilt
*we find estonians more beautiful than us and they think same for us(what a fair thought)
*in both race guys like to wear boxers
*and girls mostly doesnt know cooking bfor they marry(then they discover how to cook,bcos its good way to keep urslef far from the boring husband)
ehh these are my discoveries anybody else?who wana help the science?and scientific researches? cmoon everybody
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| 8. |
12 Oct 2006 Thu 10:45 am |
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Quote: Yes, I think it happens in many languages. The words used frequently may become suffixes/prefixes. Turkish is a good example for this process.
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Suppose it documents the ancientness of a language. Not that I adore Charles Darwin that much, but he said that personal pronouns in English are a kind of "atavism" in some structures, especially in predicate nominative, comparing it with languages where subject is not needed. That's why the Turkish language is so perfect.
Quote: i dunno if its related with the subject or not but i also found few similarities between estonian and turkish ppl |
And as much as I can see, our friend Ramayan gives his tribute to new kind of agglutination... dunno and ppl... Ramayan, do you know for Bernard Shaw's legacy for the one who manage to make a reform of English language? I think it's pretty a sum.  But you really bring joyful mood everywhere. Well, try with Serbia if you like good-cooking girls. And don't be so critical to Estonian girls! In fact, don't be critical to any girls! 
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| 9. |
12 Oct 2006 Thu 10:57 am |
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Quoting duda:
Quote: i dunno if its related with the subject or not but i also found few similarities between estonian and turkish ppl |
And as much as I can see, our friend Ramayan gives his tribute to new kind of agglutination... dunno and ppl... Ramayan, do you know for Bernard Shaw's legacy for the one who manage to make a reform of English language? I think it's pretty a sum. But you really bring joyful mood everywhere. Well, try with Serbia if you like good-cooking girls. And don't be so critical to Estonian girls! In fact, don't be critical to any girls! |
yaa i was just telling my scientific views...anyway..serbia? good-cooking girls? ouh my god? are u serious? anyway i should shut up..u know..i dont wana get a slap on my cheek..
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| 10. |
12 Oct 2006 Thu 11:07 am |
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Quoting duda:
... Not that I adore Charles Darwin that much, but he said that personal pronouns in English are a kind of "atavism" in some structures, especially in predicate nominative, comparing it with languages where subject is not needed. That's why the Turkish language is so perfect.
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And the same Darwin said some nasty things about Turks. Here is his famous quote:
"The Turkish nation will soon disappear, this is a law of evolution"
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| 11. |
12 Oct 2006 Thu 04:05 pm |
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In the older turkish the personal pronoun "I" is "men" ?? and "sen" is "you" as I know - - so, in estonian "I" is "mina" (men) and "you" is "sina" (sen)
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| 12. |
12 Oct 2006 Thu 04:13 pm |
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Quoting eestlane: In the older turkish the personal pronoun "I" is "men" ?? and "sen" is "you" as I know - - so, in estonian "I" is "mina" (men) and "you" is "sina" (sen) |
As in Finnish. How 'bout other pronouns?
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| 13. |
12 Oct 2006 Thu 08:39 pm |
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Quote: And the same Darwin said some nasty things about Turks. Here is his famous quote:
"The Turkish nation will soon disappear, this is a law of evolution" |
I cited that just as one of his (rare) sensible and lucid conclusions. But I absolutely agree with you, it is better not to discuss the rest of his postulates concerning Eastern natons... E.g. that "Arabs are extremely unmusical..." And his states about some other nations... including mine... We should have dissapeared long ago, too. But this is not the topic, I quoted Darwin's just because of good chosen word "atavism", for I really find Turkish language almost perfect in comparison with many other European languages. Comparative linguistics is more than a hobby for me, so I am amazed with each new discovery about Turkish.
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| 14. |
13 Oct 2006 Fri 08:37 am |
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Quoting duda: Quote: And the same Darwin said some nasty things about Turks. Here is his famous quote:
"The Turkish nation will soon disappear, this is a law of evolution" |
I cited that just as one of his (rare) sensible and lucid conclusions. But I absolutely agree with you, it is better not to discuss the rest of his postulates concerning Eastern natons... E.g. that "Arabs are extremely unmusical..." And his states about some other nations... including mine... We should have dissapeared long ago, too. But this is not the topic, I quoted Darwin's just because of good chosen word "atavism", for I really find Turkish language almost perfect in comparison with many other European languages. Comparative linguistics is more than a hobby for me, so I am amazed with each new discovery about Turkish.
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OK. It's also a hobby for me to study the Turkish grammar. A nearly perfect language (with some defects of course) in my opinion. Keep in mind that Turkish made contacts with many languages (Slavic languages, Persian, Finno-Ugric languages, Armenian, Greek, Albenian, Chinese etc) over the centuries in a very big geographical area. So there may be a lot of similarities. Armanian language for example has many Turkic elements (borrowings, suffixes etc). I read an article about the similarities between Turkish and Japanese recently. They are amazing.
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| 15. |
21 Oct 2006 Sat 03:04 pm |
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other pronouns are totally different:
he/she = tema, ta
we = meie, me
you (plural) = teie, te
they = nemad, nad
there are parallel forms as you can see and all of them are used equally but none of them has any similarity to turkish
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