Travelling to Turkey |
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How (not) to do it - Harams/helals
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| 180. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 02:56 am |
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Quoting CANLI:
Actually,no we dont !
We dont make jokes about our religion even between eachothers because we respect it
When you believe in something and respect it you dont make jokes about it.
Even when bad things happened,we accept it as fate,as test,and we dont blame ALLAH for it
So,as japrak has pointed out the way West and east deal with religion is way much different!
That is why you 'West'cant understand why we 'East' get offended when the discussion in religions regarding İslam reach certain limit .
We have great deal of respect to what we believe!
Same as we too,we dont get it when 'West' make jokes with religion 'Christianity'
We dont get it and we dont accept it,so you dont find Muslim make joke of it tho...but,all to his ways,and its THEİR religion!
When someone talk about God as if talking about his friend,fighting with God,making fun of HİM...we dont understand it...
''HEY,that is GOD,HE is YOUR creator SHOW some respect,you respect your Mom and Dad for giving birth to you,dont you respect the one who MADE you,and MADE your parents too ?!!!''
That is what we think about it in those stiuations..but as i said all to his ways .
So you see,the way we see religion,the way we deal with it is different! |
With all due respect to what you believe Canli, but what you are saying is kind of approval of what femme said in the first place about muslims are easily offended about the jokes. And it is also KIND OF approval of condemming salman rushdi, danish cartoons etc..
But cant you see that these ideas were always common in the west? The only difference is the internet age and the information traveling so fast. so that some cartoons are printed, guys in pakistans sees the following day..(and somehow, tragically, some of them get killed in demonstrations  )
Since, we know that there is freedom of expression, and also we know that there are people thinking those things about islam.
Why dont you want to hear them? why is always people sent after those people responsible? (many people sent after s rushdi, they are trying to kill those danish cartonists, in Turkey, they burnt more than 30 intellects alive in sivas madimak-because aziz nesin published s rushdi's book )
About beliving in something and not making jokes about it: Sorry but, you are wrong and how come can you speak of all islamic people? there are many many jokes about mohammed and religion in turkish language. I can give some examples if you like..
About not questioning the bad things and simply call it faith is another thing I will disagree. I really believe that it is the part of reason why all the muslim countries are not developed!! Leaving everything to Allah kind of blocks the search for what is going wrong..
I think in this forum, we talked about REFORM in islam. What is acceptable as a joke, what is freedom of speach, what is really insulting or couple of infidels' cartoons can harm The Creater. They should all be in this reform package.
Islam should have a milder face. And not accepting any critisism or jokes is not doing any good to islam..
It is partly why in the world, christianty is expanding more than islam!!
I really think muslims should be more relaxed about these issues.
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| 181. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 02:57 am |
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Quoting alameda:
Obviously this woman was exploited.....as many of them are.
However, my contention:
The most dangerous people are those with nothing left to loose....or those who feel they have lost their dignity, self worth.
I don't believe anyone who has hope would become a suicide bomber. It really is a phenomenon that should be studied seriously, if anyone wants it to stop. |
CORRECT...
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| 182. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 02:59 am |
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Quoting azade: Quoting AlphaF: West tells you the suicide bombers are born idiots, and you believe them. You obviously have a very clean washed brain yourself.
You cant even suspect there may be another gross reality behind the suicide bombers ! you are happy to be safe, sound and well fed among others. That is your price... |
Those people who end up being suicide bombers etc. were probably regular people in the first place but due to circumstances and brainwashing they become completely different people in time. No sane person would blow up themselves (or take other people with them).
That is reality.
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İ agree with you azade,no sane person would blow up himself.
Let me tell you what i've been told about suicide bombers from a Palestinian friend back at school
Family live in poverty,a mother,son,2 daughters,and some small kids
Father not there,because he's died,uncle not there for same reason.
the boy taking the responsibility to support his family,and protect it...he is the man of the family now!
He want to study to have a better future he and his sisters,and want to work at same time to support his family.
The boy accepted his fate,and try to go to school to study,but he couldnt...all schools closed or destroyed...
He wanted to work to bring food to his Mom and small ones...he also couldnt,because all roads are locked and there is no work opportunities for him !
He wanted to take care of his family...but he cant also,soldiers are coming and they will arrest him,will rape his sisters,if not,will take them to jail to be raiped there !
He wanted to defend them,to defend his sisters and mother...but he has no weapon !
He only has himself...
Would he stand still and watch it ?!he thinks.
Or would he kill himself trying to defend them so he wont be able to watch it ?!
He may kill innocent people in his way of killing the soldiers ? he still thinking
But aren't his mother and sisters,and those small ones innocent too ?
Wasnt he innocent when his father died and he had to carry the family responsibility which he failed to do too ?!
All he dreamed off is to live like other people live,the people which he watch in TV,they live in safety,go to school,and ACTUALLY live to go to UNİ...
He wanted that too..
But...
So,he just choose to be selfish,and to bomb himself,so he wont witness what will going to happen to his family!
İf this brainwashed,then yes...they get brainwashed!
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| 183. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 02:59 am |
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Quoting alameda: However, my contention:
The most dangerous people are those with nothing left to loose....or those who feel they have lost their dignity, self worth. |
This man was a 30 year old teaching assistant, who was a loving family man, was married with a child, and had a very comfortable life, living in the UK with more rights than he would ever have in his own country. All his family are astonished that he would ever do such a thing.
Now please tell me how this man felt he had lost dignity or self worth? This is not a suicide. This is a terrorist attack in the name of extremist muslims with the promise of eternal paradise for the bomber.
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| 184. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:01 am |
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Quoting adonis: CORRECT... |
It is very heartening to see that you have such sympathies for PKK bombers Adonis 
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| 185. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:02 am |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting peace train:
In this particular instance you shovelled it into your own, enormous mouth. The thread title was a clear warning it would have a religious angle. So, you had a choice DEAR. The truth of the matter is you enjoy every opportunity you get to whinge on and on and on and on and on.
'FRANKLY' whilst you know a lot of 'FACTS' you aren't smart . . . you're a great stonking ignoramus!!!
I just realised that there is absolutely no point in talking to you and I'm sure you'll be glad to know that.
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a nice peaceful western muslim!
its so hard to pretend a nice polite lady, isnt it?
yuck yuck, and all yout teachings about being polite and nice  |
Have it your way.
You are predictable.
You have nothing new to say.
(See Peace Train skip happily into the sunset.)
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| 186. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:02 am |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting adonis: CORRECT... |
It is very heartening to see that you have such sympathies for PKK bombers Adonis
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me? don't be silly!!!
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| 187. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:05 am |
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No? Well, doesn't this description also fit the Turkish/Kurdish PKK? 
Or is it "different" when the attacks are not against the west? 
Quoting adonis: Quoting alameda:
Obviously this woman was exploited.....as many of them are.
However, my contention:
The most dangerous people are those with nothing left to loose....or those who feel they have lost their dignity, self worth.
I don't believe anyone who has hope would become a suicide bomber. It really is a phenomenon that should be studied seriously, if anyone wants it to stop. |
CORRECT... |
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| 188. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:07 am |
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Quoting CANLI: Quoting thehandsom:
So the moral of the story is that with the industralision the religion is bound to get weaker. That is what is happening in the west. And that is what is not happening in the east.
That is what will happen to the eastern cultures with the time.
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İ dont think its related to industrializing,and i wish it wont happen ,but i agree East will follow |
I really believe it is very much related to that. West paid the industrialisation dearly. did you know that app 150 years ago, 1/3 of women in London were prostitutes? but east did not..it is trying to catch up..
And that experience moved the religion back in their priorities. Nobody gives a thing in the west what you believe or what you say about the religion. That is the reason why 35% of uk population dont believe in any religion!!..very small number of people go to the curches!!
it is not the case because west has lost its moral values. It is simply they dont care..They passed that stage!!
And it is what will happen to the east in the future!!
There is no escape from it I am afraid!!
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| 189. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:15 am |
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Quoting thehandsom: ...........
I really think muslims should be more relaxed about these issues.
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It seems there are, unfortunately, many uneducated Muslims in the world that have been propagandized and indoctrinated by the very narrow Wahabbis. (who have been able to do so with their petrol wealth) Such disrespect is not at all productive to calming emotions and promoting tolerance.
I have a Jewish friend who gets very upset about the casual use of the work God....if you notice Jews write it like this G-d in order not to take the name in vain. I know more than a few Christians who get very offended by disrespect to their saints and Holy Family.
The difference is the Islamic world is now in a compromised state, thus the reaction is different. Certainly throughout history we have seen a different story.
The issue, to me, is one more of the wisdom of such provocation. If one wants to really have communication, one does not insult and provoke the one who they want to communicate with.
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| 190. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:23 am |
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Quoting adonis: YOU ABSOLUTELY DON'T KNOW THE KURD PROBLEM IN TURKEY SO DON'T MAKE DEMAGOGY AND DON'T DIGRESS THE TOPIC.
THE BOMBER IN THE LINK IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM PKK BOMBERS.
PKK WANT TO DIVIDE THE BOUNDARIES OF TURKEY WITH USING TERRORIST ATTACKS. USA AND EU SUPPORT THEM.
THE BOMBER IN THE LINK WANTS TO DESTRUCT THE PEACE IN THE WEST WITH EXPLOITING ISLAM. WHY? BECAUSE THE WEST CREATES ENEMIES FOR ITSELF TO DESTRUCT THE EAST IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH GREAT MIDDLE EAST PROJECT.
IF YOU STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCES, YOU SHOULD SEE A DOCTOR... |
Wowwwwwwwwwww! Anger a muslim and you soon find out they support Al-Qaeda - very interesting.
You are screaming like a caged animal because you trapped yourself. You were giving such sympathies to suicide bombers until I mentioned PKK bombers and then, suddenly, you have to amend your statement.
There is really no difference, so I dont need to see a doctor. The west taking over the east? Thats a joke!!!! You are doing a great job of taking over europe.
I absolutely DO know about the Kurdish "problem" in Turkey.
I think people will be very interested to read your post supporting Al-Qaeda terrorists.
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