Welcome
Login:   Pass:     Register - Forgot Password - Resend Activation

Turkish Class Forums / Turkish Politics

Turkish Politics

Add reply to this discussion
Auschwitz of ´12 Eylul´
(28 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
1 2 [3]
20.       armegon
1872 posts
 16 Sep 2008 Tue 05:25 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

Why is it biased?

It is just a translation from a newspaper ´radikal´!

And it is not only one writer (and me) thinks that way on this subject.

There are many many turkish articles, web sites, columns regarding Diyarbakir jail.

Sometimes I really think if you REALLY are  living in Turkey at all!!

 

Why i need to rely on a columnist from Radikal? The events he mentioned most possibly true but gist of his writing is wrong so i do not agree, there are also many columnists, many articles who/which do not share the same same substances with him.

 

21.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 16 Sep 2008 Tue 06:21 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

I am dissapointed about you guys..

I could except you could sideline yourselves with the main stream nationalism, but i would never expect that you would try to ´lessen´ the importance of these horrific tortures..

 

 

no one denies the importance of these tortures, but when you try to "create" a Kurdish issue out of it, it just becomes irrelevant.

22.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 17 Sep 2008 Wed 01:14 am

As promised..

I have had look at the book I read years ago ..It is called Vahsetin Gunlugu-Diary of brutality- written by Mehdi Zana(PKK supporter)
Although he is a PKK supporter but his descriptions of tortures were verified by the others as well..So Mehdi Zana, being a PKK supporter does not make ´what went there´ a lesser crime.


The book is horrific..The details are graphic..It is starting from beating/torturing everybody while screaming ´there is no Kurd, you are not a Kurd, you are a Turk´ to intimidating/beating their visitors because they did not know how to speak Turkish (most of the prisoners begged their visitors not to come, because they did not want to be seen that low to their relatives) ; going on,  from asking ´are you Kurd or Turk?´ and beat them in either case to forcing them to memorize racist marching songs.
Forcing youngsters to engage sex to forcing them to eat live rats; dipping them into sewage and forcing them to drink swage water; tying them force them to bend down and insert lit cigarettes into their bums; Forcing them to respect dogs (they were forced to call a dog ´sir´ ) etc.. (some of the prisoners committed suicide by setting themselves on fire-using oil paints-some run and hit the concrete walls with their heads, some died in hunger strikes)

Anyway, I dont want to continue.

Lets see what Zana thought about his experience:  ´Diyarbakir  prison was converted into a place of savagery by the generals of 12 September in order to take the identities of Kurds and smash them. So that anybody, who had a little sympathy with kurdishness, would be intimidated and threatened.´
He says that´ those tortures made us realize what we are. we were kurds not mountain Turks. Kurdish struggle was pulled ahead for 20 years with Diyarbakir´
And he thanks The head of the army general K Evren ´we, Kurds, should put his pure gold statue in Diyarbakir. Even that statue would not be enough about what he did for our struggle´

the article is here (in Turkish) http://www.internethaber.com/author_article_detail.php?id=6853b     (turkish)
===============

Murat Belge: ´specially in that jail, somehow not in others but specially in Diyarbakir jail, they did tortures which ´just  listening´ would be enough to make people sleepless for days. (in others like Mamak, there were too But none of them could beat the tortures in Diyarbakir)
Now, in this society, if there is a primitive Kurdish nationalism which we dislike, the reason for that is the torture chamber called Diyarbakir prison´
http://www.radikal.com.tr/haber.php?haberno=238973  (turkish)
==================================
In order to solve the Kurdish problem, we have to come to terms with first half of 1908s and have to face the barbarity of Diyarbakir prison. (This guy was a prisoner in that jail)

http://www.sabah.com.tr/safak.html  (turkish)

===========================

he describes Diyarbakir prison as ´a place for ethnic revenge´ and he thinks that the real reason for the barbarity was ethnic hatred.
he talks about ´the programme´ was designed for the kurds specially -so prison guards did not like to see non-kurds there-
....
He also gives an example..a boy..non political..taken in..prison guards forced the boy to pee on others..he refused and in the end he started to hit his head to the walls..and they left the boy alone..The guy joined PKK after that and got killed..(Mehmet Kalkan his name is)


http://www.taraf.com.tr/yazar.asp?mid=642 (erdal safak) (turkish)

==========================================

http://www.taraf.com.tr/haber.asp?id=16735 (turkish)
In this article (Nilgün Yalçindag a relative of a prisoner).
She tells a story about a an old Kurdish woman who wanted to visit his son in diyarbakir prison. Because Kurdish was not allowed, the old woman asked Nilgün Yalçindag repeatedly if she was saying the turkish words right..she was trying to memorise only four words frantically: ´Oglim bayramin kutli olsin´- my son I wish you a happy Bayram- (if she did not memorize those words she just had to look at her son´s eyes)

=================
http://www.radikal.com.tr/haber.php?haberno=79191 (nese duzel) (turkish)
Selim Dindar..non pkk..happened to be in diyarbakir prison for 3 years.
After long description of tortures he answers a question: ´prison of Diyarbakir made people militants. 80% of them went to mountains to join PKK..it was very difficult to go back to normal life after being subjected to that savagery. They say -PKK really started in 1984- 1984 is the date when most of the prisoners were released´

Anyway, I am sure if you check most of the people who are interested in political science in Turkey, they will say the same thing..
What was done in Diyarbakir is  one of the reasons of PKK´s existance.

 

 

23.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 17 Sep 2008 Wed 01:42 pm

Nobody with clear thinking mind can deny the role of creating the PKK in the east and protecting its existance.

 

But these tortures can be seen only as a trig to collect their supporters not as a reason for its to be created.

24.       ciko
784 posts
 17 Sep 2008 Wed 02:10 pm

people in diyarbakir jail were 90 % kurds and yes they were being tortured just like other leftists in the rest of the country. but you dont want to understand what happened between 1980- 84 in that jail was one of the biggest reasons of PKK rebellion... and the other things happened between 1980-84 were to ban kurdish music and listening to it, to ban speaking kurdish in public places etc, to stop unionist activities in the east etc....

25.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 17 Sep 2008 Wed 04:42 pm

So PKK would give it to you when you have a free country around Diyarbakir?

 

Before this question, you can be rebel to the governors or make some actions to get your rights back after such tortures,ask for a change at government, but you cant ask for land and your own independence for it... so every ethnic group should ask for land... laz, greek, armenian etc... 

 

there is a part in north iraq which is claimed as Kurdish state... so you may move there... and have your better life there...

26.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 20 Sep 2008 Sat 04:23 am

 

Quoting SuiGeneris

So PKK would give it to you when you have a free country around Diyarbakir?

 

Before this question, you can be rebel to the governors or make some actions to get your rights back after such tortures,ask for a change at government, but you cant ask for land and your own independence for it... so every ethnic group should ask for land... laz, greek, armenian etc... 

 

there is a part in north iraq which is claimed as Kurdish state... so you may move there... and have your better life there...

 

well..

Of course, it is not only "the torture in Diyarbakir which happened years ago" is the reason for our Kurdish problem.

But the sheer  ignorant and intolerant mentality of us.

Just like this:

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=153641&bolum=103

 

..a student in the town of Aliağa in the province of İzmir was not allowed to read a poem at a ceremony opening the new school year because her name was Rojda, a well-known Kurdish name.

..

"The tolerance and positive approach afforded to British students is denied to a student just because of her name in her own country."..

..

but, as can be seen in the case of Rojda, the discrimination is still here.

 

 

 

27.       SuiGeneris
3922 posts
 20 Sep 2008 Sat 09:03 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

well..

Of course, it is not only "the torture in Diyarbakir which happened years ago" is the reason for our Kurdish problem.

But the sheer  ignorant and intolerant mentality of us.

Just like this:

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=153641&bolum=103

 

..a student in the town of Aliağa in the province of İzmir was not allowed to read a poem at a ceremony opening the new school year because her name was Rojda, a well-known Kurdish name.

..

"The tolerance and positive approach afforded to British students is denied to a student just because of her name in her own country."..

..

but, as can be seen in the case of Rojda, the discrimination is still here.

 

 

You know what the handsom, you cant blame a whole government for that "Rojda" issue just because of some idiots in the managing place in that school.

 

There are always people who will not be able to think in a healthy way and will always look to the life with their one way glasses...

 

For me there is no Kurding problem... according to the laws we are on equal positions! this is FACT! if on applying the rules some people have problems, you cant load those individual mistakes on whole country...

 

Yesterday it was on news that a group of people has caught the students after school and taught kurdish in the street, and you know what "your police" didnt do anything, as you were expecting to beat them all right?, but funny thing is, if they will learn kurdish or in kurdish language, how they will communicate with people in the west or north? as they will not learn turkish properly? This will bring later on that they want to have their own lands

 

 

This issue is not that big as you mention here all the time i am afraid its just the simple propaganda, but just a propaganda with no solutions.

 

 

 

On the other hand, i watched on news that in Kayseri a group was gonna make and record a documentary about anatolia and put byzantian flag over the Kayseri castle, some people on the street sees that and they try to shout and cry, get the flag down, today you put flag tomorrow you give the lands to west etc.

 

So as you see your people are not ready enough to think...

 

28.       azade
1606 posts
 20 Sep 2008 Sat 11:31 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

well..

Of course, it is not only "the torture in Diyarbakir which happened years ago" is the reason for our Kurdish problem.

But the sheer  ignorant and intolerant mentality of us.

Just like this:

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=153641&bolum=103

 

..a student in the town of Aliağa in the province of İzmir was not allowed to read a poem at a ceremony opening the new school year because her name was Rojda, a well-known Kurdish name.

..

"The tolerance and positive approach afforded to British students is denied to a student just because of her name in her own country."..

..

but, as can be seen in the case of Rojda, the discrimination is still here.

 

 

There is also this example: "Punishment for drawing with ´Kurdish´ colors"

http://www.milliyet.com.tr/2006/12/16/guncel/gun03.html (turkish)

 

On that same note, the traffic light colors were changed to red, yellow and blue in the 90´es in Şirnak, but it caused so much chaos the govenor had to change it again {#lang_emotions_you_crazy}

(28 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
1 2 [3]
Add reply to this discussion




Turkish Dictionary
Turkish Chat
Open mini chat
New in Forums
TLC servers hacked, all user emails & pass...
admin: We removed the user password data from the servers until the issue is ...
E-T: It´s one of the things on my bu...
gokuyum: No. It doesnt make sense. You can say ... yapmak istediğim bi...
T-E
og2009: DÜNYA TOPLUMU VE FELSEFE ... okul ... felsefe ... ....
Holidays in Turkey
: ...
24 HOUR FLASH SALE for learning Turkish e-...
qdemir: ...
Grammar Textbook
qdemir: ...
E-T: I see you have done this before?
harp00n: Bunu ... daha önce de ... Bu konuda iyi olduğun ç...
T-E
og2009: ...
T-E
og2009: ...
coronavirus
og2009: ...
OUR FRIENDS
og2009: ...
Coronavirus
harp00n: ...
Random Pictures of Turkey
Most liked