For all those learning English (and for English speakers who don´t know) definitely is NOT spelt definAtely or any other way. It´s definitely definitely with an I.

Thank you! 

Thanks!

Separetely, I have problem with separately. Its spelling is hard to keep in mind, while it´s actually not supposed to do so. While on the subject, may I add its and it´s to the list?

 - and the other one that grates every time I see it - loose/lose.  You don´t loose your way, loose your mind or loose a game!!!  You can, however ´Lose a loose tooth´ ´break loose´ or find your clothes are too loose if you lose weight!  

I have a problem with separate and desperate too.

Here are some more

pronunciation (not pronounciation)

argument (not arguement)

grateful (not greatfull)

happiness (not happyness)

helpful (not helpfull)

welcome (not wellcome)

You hunted me here! Thanks again!

Happy to be of service!

Some of those words I´m starting to have a problem too..!! I must say that my English pronunciation was better when I just started learning English.. and it´s getting worse the longer I use it.. any explanations for this oxymoron?

You´re probably beginning to sound like a native English speaker! I sometimes watch those awful shows like Ricky Lake or Jeremy Kyle and wonder if they are actually speaking the same language.

I hope you don´t mean that I´m starting to sound like the people on these aweful shows. (even though I have no idea what they are, since I don´t watch tv..)

I´m sure you don´t ! 

... loving this

embarrass(ed)

committee

accommodate/accommodation

And thank you Sonunda. Definate is definitely a spelling I am always itching to correct.

It´s difficult to know whether to correct or not, but, for the sake of those learning English, I guess it´s better to explain. 

Such an interesting post! I think a lot of confusion comes from accents too... Northern english people pronounce words more rounded and often shorten the words.. For example.... i would type dint instead of didn´t or summat instead of something. And im sure there are other takes on words too depending on the region you come from, which in turn can be very confusing to most trying to learn the correct way to write and speak english. A turkish friend finds the fact that we use  words like... read or live in past and present context and becomes very confusing. I can´t explain to him the ins and outs of english grammar because it confuses me at times hahahaa. i learned to speak, read and write english but didn´t learn all about grammar, punctuation, nouns etc at school.. admittedly i was just too lazy to take it all in !

Soooo some english lessons on the latter would be very helpful too lol

Janette

The subject of pronunciation is a whole different topic and one that we could write much about. catwoman was saying her English pronunciaton was getting worse but I wonder who taught her in the first place. If she learnt from a northerner like me she would pronounce words very differently from someone from the south. If she learnt from an American it would be a different kettle of fish altogether! In England very few words have to be spoken to be able to identify pretty accurately where that person is from.

In addition,without wishing to offend anyone,I have very,very rarely heard a non-native English speaker who could be taken for a native and you can normally tell by their English accent which country they are from.I´m sure when we speak Turkish,even though we think we have the correct pronunciation, we are easily identified as English!

awful (not aweful)

wonderful (not wonderfull)

 I´m shore you are write about this.

Sadly, it is true: I can pass for a Turk until I open my mouth. Then they know I am English!!

Even after 10 years? No hope for me then! I don´t really care though-I just open my mouth and get on with it!

...and with you looking SO Turkish and all!!!  

There are red-headed Turks!

.....this is true, I have met several - but you still don´t look Turkish! 

I know   

I like this thread!

You are welcome = ´You´re welcome´ not ´Your welcome´.  ´Your welcome´ means the welcome that belongs to you!!  Equally for ´You´re right´, ´You´re wrong´ and any other contraction of ´You are´.  If you remember that the apostrophe is replacing the ´a´ in ´are´ you shouldn´t (!) go wrong. 

[it´s a relief getting that one off my chest ]

How ´bout of in:

should´ve ... = should of ...

Not something that I do but I see natives doing it.

I think I should start one about Turkish spelling mistakes

(Although there is http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_38902, it was in Turkish  

 me to

Also I am tired of those spell-checkers tuned for American English that keeps telling me there is something wrong with my spelling when I prefer -ise over -ize:

organise

memoise

etc

Yes! Yes!    - who do these Americans think they are??     And what have they got against the letter ´u´ (eg color, flavor, honor)???

 Yes i have a Turkish friend who is ginger

 how about it

should´ve== should have

Exactly!  Si++ was commenting on the mistake he has often seen native speakers making of writing ´should of´ for ´should have´

You should of realised!!!!

The difference between effect and affect...it is not that hard  What I have seen in checking business assignments of people... customer or costumer... the spelling checks says they are both correct, but when you´re talking business the chance is small that you want to talk about people who make costumes.

What a great thread! What really gets my goats is how the natives use apostrophes, especially when making plural nouns: photo´s, cake´s etc. You can see such things in cafes (not cafe´s) and restaurants here all the time. Also, perhaps it´s just the Irish, tend to use "me" instead of "my," as in "it does me head in" or, more commonly heard, "me bollix" (yes, bollix not bollocks.) And they use weird constructions like "to be do" and "be after doing something" but that´s probably direct translations from Irish.

Sonunda is right about non-natives always sounding foreign, no matter how well they learn a language. So many factors influence that, starting with our biology ie brain´s ability to hear different sounds and categorise them as separate phonemes or our articulators that get fixed positions as we grow up. It was interesting to observe it at the university, where we learnt (or learned as Americans would say I guess) all the theory behind pronouncing different sounds but still, many people were unable to repeat them. Our native pronunciation habits play a big part here. We, Poles, always change word-final voiced consonants into voiceless ones, hence seeing the word "food" we´re likely to read it as "foot." The idea of long vs short vowels is non-existent in polish, so it shouldn´t surprise native English speakers that when we say we need "keys" they hear that we´d like "kiss."

Even if we learn the correct pronunciation of individual words, there´s still the melody, sentence rythm and tune that differ from our native ones. I remember one time when I was in Turkey, my friend told me it was time I started using Turkish and told me to tell the waiter to get the bill. I called the waiter and asked politely "Hesap alabilir miyim?", to which the said friend reacted with surprise and asked why I was so rude. Apparently the melody was wrong and I sounded aggressive...oh, well...

Back at the university when I had a lot of English around me - classes, natives, etc, I was always told how good my accent was. A few natives were actually surprised I didn´t grew up in eastern London. the funny thing is, I wouldn´t be able to tell this accent from any other in the Uk (ok, maybe apart from Geordie ). What I always used to do while speaking was to exaggerate and mock what I remembered from British films and songs. And it worked. Too bad for me, I don´t have a fixed accent, which means that I tend to pick up an accent and a manner of speaking as I go. It might be a bit embarrassing at times when speaking to a person with a lisp. Subconsciously I start lisping too. Many years ago I went to visit friends in eastern Poland, after a week I had their funny accent, which made my mum roll on the floor. Now, having lived in Ireland for almost 3 years I don´t have any accent at all. I mean, you still wouldn´t tell I was Polish, but I don´t sound either British nor Irish. I reckoned it wasn´t a good idea to speak with a British accent so I tried something more American. As I´ve never been a great fan of American accent, I don´t sound very convincing, though. Still, it´s enough to baffle people who always try to guess where I am from. So far I have been thought to be from each English-speaking country short of RSA Well...maybe in 10 years I´ll finally pick Hiberno English. Keep your fingers crossed!

Some linguists believe there is a language acquisition mechanism that is only active in early childhood. The language you learn in childhood is your native one. Bilingualism is an exception of couse, scientists talk about a dominant language, it is supposed to be the one in which we make calculations etc.

As far as I know, no language teaching program sets such a challenging target as "being able to speak like a native speaker." Unless you are planning to work as a spy, this would not be very necessary. They say anyone spending 7 active years in a foreign country could have a native like command of the language spoken in that country.

The phonetic aspects of a language pose one of the biggest challenges for learners. Nevertheless, it is perfectly possible for someone to study and learn a language on a discourse level far exceeding the average. This brings us back to Joseph Conrad the Polish captain who wrote one of the most sophisticated novels of the English language although his native language was Polish.

Quoting Daydreamer

As I´ve never been a great fan of American accent, I don´t sound very convincing, though. Still, it´s enough to baffle people who always try to guess where I am from. So far I have been thought to be from each English-speaking country short of RSA Well...maybe in 10 years I´ll finally pick Hiberno English. Keep your fingers crossed!

What is it about US English? There is a strange flat twang to it.  John Wayne is the archtype of US English.  Of course, there the Robert DeNiro (faugedahbtit) style as well...still not pretty.

There is a nasal quality to it and a lazy nature of reducing words to one syllable.  Of course, let´s not forget Southern American English. It has a few variations as well.  There is the Texas accent of Jim Hightower

It´s tragic that through the years up to now, much of it is barely intelligible.

My favorite English is that of the Cambridge area. It has a nice lilt to it.

I sometimes have a problem with the "talking like a native" thing. A lot of "natives" don´t speak perfect English. I understand all of my foreign friends when they speak English, except for my friend from Manchester. Half of the time I have no idea what´s coming out of her mouth. When I had my English for business course at university, my teacher asked me if I lived in the UK for a while, since I made some "native" mistakes. So speaking like a native isn´t what you should aim for. And native itself is already so vague. In Holland they prefer teachers with a classic British accent, but an Australian is also a native. So if he would teach all the kids to talk with an Australian accent, they would also be speaking like natives.

What a strange favourite! (in my opinion) - maybe you mean favourite out of the ones you have heard!

 I quite like my sarf London axecent meself...

I thought it was possible to set the spell checker to either American or British English .

I also don´t like -ize but not because it´s American, I just don´t like the way it looks!  Perhaps I´m a little odd but I have favourite words, depending on the way they look or sound.  I love words that sound "cuddly" . . .lol. . . I am sounding more odd by the minute.

In his book, "Shakespeare: The World as a Stage", Bill Bryson writes:

"We are not sure how best to spell his name – but then neither, it appears, was he, for the name is never spelt the same way twice in the signatures that survive. They read as Willm Shaksp, William Shakespe, Wm Shakspe, William Shakspere, Willm Shakspere and William Shak-speare. One spelling he didn’t use was the one now universally attached to his name."

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/book_extracts/article2283218.ece

This seems to be true of spelling in general in those days.

It´s a while since I read his book, but Bryson also discusses American spellings and, from what I can remember (I gave the book to a friend and it has never been returned ) it would seem that a good amount of it can be traced back to England. Of course there were settlers from other parts of the world too.  I haven´t read it yet, but Bryson will probably have mentioned this in his book "Mother Tongue: The Story of the English Language".

One of my pet hates:

alot . . . not one word but two i.e.  "a lot"

also:

some abbreviate etcetera/et cetera as "ect" and it should be "etc."

In schools (I can only speak for Primary) children are taught about use of language in formal and informal situations.  In some schools, the latest resource in class is a crown. The children put on the crown and endeavour to "speak like the Queen" (not a queen ).  The boys prefer to be a king or a prince, but overall, the younger children enjoy it and it´s a less intrusive, entertaining way of teaching them.

There is a boy in the school where I work and he is of Asian Indian heritage.  He has red hair!  The only member of his family to have it. 

Are you a native English speaker Janette?

I might speak in a more rushed and colloquial style amongst friends but at work, and when speaking to my turkish friends, I use more formal language and speak more clearly. When I email my Turkish friends I use formal English, because I know they´ll learn from it.  One of my Turkish friends prides himself on his standard of English and I must say it´s excellent.  I tend to use more challenging words when I email him, in order to broaden his vocabulary (I know he will look up the word).  It´s the same with idioms etc. I will use them in emails in order to broaden the knowledge of the recipient.

Although I´ve lived in the North West of England for most of my life, I wasn´t born there and I´ve lived in more than a handful of areas of England, as well as abroad.  I would class myself as from the North West, but people can´t always detect this from my accent. 

"For example.... i would type dint instead of didn´t or summat instead of something."

Do you mean you would write this if you were a non native English speaker, listening to English natives from the North?

However informal my language might be orally, I wouldn´t use it when writing.  That brings me to another annoyance (for me) . . . text messages!  I have OCD and hate to abbreviate or use lower case when there should be a capital letter (mainly I/i).  Thankfully I have unlimited texts so I can tap away endlessly .

....aha!  That naughty milkman again!  

My favourite English accents:

North East - "Geordie"

The Liverpool accent, but not too "thick" (my dad´s a Liverpudlian)

I also like the Welsh and Southern Irish accent.

Sorry, but I´m not keen on:

The Birmingham accent (Brum?) - but it´s growing on me

the Nottingham accent

Mancunian (Manchester/Manchestah) - this one can vary. It´s the more "street" version that I don´t like.

I also cringe when I hear myself speaking on  recorded video or audio . . . yuk!

Or naughty Empire builders of the past perhaps?

How ´bout non-errors (Those usages people keep telling you are wrong but which are actually standard in English.)

For example:

Off of

For most Americans, the natural thing to say is “Climb down off of [pronounced “offa”] that horse, Tex, with your hands in the air”; but many UK authorities urge that the “of” should be omitted as redundant. Where British English reigns you may want to omit the “of” as superfluous, but common usage in the US has rendered “off of” so standard as to generally pass unnoticed, though some American authorities also discourage it in formal writing. But if “onto” makes sense, so does “off of.” However, “off of” meaning “from” in phrases like “borrow five dollars off of Clarice” is definitely nonstandard.

Quoted from: here

I read somewhere that Londoners say "fink" instead of "think" (or pronounce it as such)

I fink I need a cup of coffee.

I´m on a roll

We had a training session, related to Literacy, last week.  The speaker referred to the letter "H/h" (aitch) as "haitch" . . . boy that really annoys me!!!!

Yes, it does happen, and not only in London.  I work in a school in Blackburn (North West England) and "f" for "th" is rife.  The trouble is, the children carry it through into their writing.  That´s one of the issues I cover with my Queen´s crown

Me too!! - and it´s amazing how many people use it which is strange because it´s actually more awkward to say ´haitch´ than ´aitch´ when you ´fink abaht it´!  

English accents I don´t like much are Brummy, and basically any of the ´middle-England´ ones - Leics, Cambridgeshire, Norfolk, Suffolk etc.  Favourites are Geordie and Devon or Cornwall accents. .  

P.S. ....For the sake of not causing any offence - having a horrible accent doesn´t necessarily make you a horrible person!  

You guys are the last few native English speakers on the earth who still regard the English accent, the English nativeness, this and that level, sounding a native speaker important/vital! Guys, let me remind you of the fact that the year is 2010! And you still tend to be busy with the above mentioned points! You may find it saddening, but today no non-native English speaker cares what their accent/level is and how good their pronunciation is! Hundreads of millions of Indian, Chineses, Japanese, Russian, Arabs and more speak terrible (yes, terrible!) English in every respect, but they don´t care simply because neither they nor their trading English and American partners have time to take care of this since nowadays only the ability for basic communication counts - that´s why this basic communication has become enough for a Dubaian Arab to trade with an British/American trader or for a Turkish resort worker to put a blonde British into the bed! Don´t expect the blonde British to care of the resort worker´s accent or his english nativeness level!

I have nothing against anyone with any type of English accent and I certainly would never expect anyone to change their accent.  We are who we are.  This does not mean that I have to like the sound of every accent in England.  Some accents don´t sound as nice as others but I´m not stupid enough to judge a person by their accent. I also mentioned that I don´t like the sound of my own voice!

Many members on this site don´t have English as their first language and I´m in awe of them.  Firstly because I haven´t got the same level of skill in French or Turkish and secondly because their level of English is higher than many "native" English speakers I come across on other forums. 

You are wrong, there are non native English speakers who DO care about their competence when it comes to speaking and writing English.  They never stop wanting to learn more, even when they have reached a more than functional level.  My friend´s daughter is a Turkish civil engineer, currently studying for her Masters and she needed to attain a certain level of English in order to get on the course.  I think it is standard procedure in Turkey, to take a test for English competency before being accepted for study at Masters level. On occasion I receive texts from Turkey, asking for advice on points of grammar or the meaning of a word because friends work in international situations and they want their correspondence to be perfect.  Turkishcobra is another member here who takes a pride in his language skills.  There is nothing wrong with this.  What I witness here is many people working hard to learn Turkish and also English.  I wish I had the same tenacity when it comes to learning a language. 

You are right, there are many that don´t care.  That´s their own personal view on what is right for them in their situation.

Horses for courses.

I´ve read many a discussion here too, amongst Turkish translators, regarding the nuances of Turkish.  Language does matter to people, whatever language it is, especially when it´s being taught.  When I´m with my Turkish friends I feel duty bound to be on my best behaviour when speaking, because I´m setting an example for them.  I just wish they would speak Turkish so that I could learn more quickly!

btw . . . You also have an excellent level of English.

Peacetrain and LiR - does saying that you like Geordie mean you actually understand it? Wow! That´s impressive.

Poles speaking English use "F" instead of "TH" in think, however, they´re more likely to replace th with "V" or "D" when saying there. The Irish never bother to pronounce "th" and go for "t." The word whose pronunciation always makes me smile is "thirty" pronounced in a thick Irish bog accent - it sounds like "torty"

As for Gezegen´s English - it is unbelievable. I still remember what it was like 4 years ago. Gezegen is a person full of surprises and I´ve always admired his motivation, intellect and all the effort he made to learn English like this over such a short period of time.

For my part, I was referring to how I like to hear people from the North East speak,  It´s like music to my ears.  Whether I understand all of it is another matter.  It´s more the accent rather than the dialect that I was talking about.  A salesman from Newcastle, Sunderland, Middlesborough or close by could sell me anything

I think most nationalities may have a problem with certain pronunciations in other languages and I think it adds character.

Turkish people identify me as  English as soon as they see me!  Sometimes they ask if I´m German but in the main they say I "look" English.

Neither do I. Like me, I think many Turks don´t seem to bother themselves with it either.

Thirty - törti (Turkish orthography)

Them - dem

etc.

Dutch people of an older generation tend to say "s" instead of "th"... it irritates the hell out of me Even the host of the tv show "dancing with the stars" says "dancing wis de stars."

also Germans, and no need to be of an older generation

for example:

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=125031520866702

lightning is the bolt of electricity from the sky that can strike you dead

lightENing is the act of making something lighter less dark or less heavy 

Is this what makes you say it?

I was very close to getting struck by lightening once

See LIR´s earlier post!

Really? I learned my first words of English from the tv, and I used to say f instead of th. I sounded much more like a f than an s to my ears.  I only started to say "think" instead of "fink" when I was about 10, 11.

How come "love" means zero, any idea? (Watching Wmbledon these days)

15-0 fifteen love

30-0 thirty love

40-0 fourty love

0-15 love fifteen

etc

from all about tennis.com

the term love (possibly derived from the French word for egg, l´oeuf, referring to the physical appearance of the number zero)

To trace the origin of “soccer” we must go all the way back to 1863, and a meeting of gentlemen at a London pub, who congregated with the purpose of standardizing the rules of “football,” which was in its infant years as an organized sport but was growing rapidly in popularity.

Those assembled became the founding members of the Football Association (which still oversees the game in England to this day). And they decided to call their code Association Football, to differentiate it from Rugby Football.

A quirk of British culture is the permanent need to familiarize names by shortening them. “My friend Brian Johnston was Johnners,” said Toye. “They took the third, fourth and fifth letters of Association and called it SOCcer. So there you are.”

source: here

 How about deuce? (Beraber in Turkish).

What the deuce is the derivation of deuce???

From the French ´a deux´ meaning you still need two points to win. 

 Wow ... I am impressed sonunda with your knowledge!!! For those of us stuck in turkey who didnt see the news this morning, is Andy Murray still in?

He plays Nadal this afternoon in the semi-final.

 Did you say Barbara Nadel???  If so ... just let me plug her latest book Death by Design which this week comes out in paperback, so is affordable! The latest in the fabulous Inspector İkmen mysteries, this time İkmen ends up having to go undercover in the Turkish community in North London ... can´t wait to get my copy!!!

haha.

PS-I´ve read it already!

 Is it as good as I guess it will be?

I was trying to remember what it was about! I´m sure I enjoyed it though.

He is out. I watched the game and he made me think he could beat Nadal at first but apperantly he´s not a match for Nadal (yet). The second set´s tie break was a tragedy for him. He was about to win the set (he was serving for the set but Nadal broke his serve and he converted his serves so won the set). Maybe next year we can see him in the final.

 Maybe next year

lol depends where in london they from , i know sometimes my pronounciation aint that good and thats probally because my dad is a londoner , my mum northen , when i go up to manchester or sunderland after a few days my wording changes , bad i know but i can always remember when i went to visit my auntie in nottiingham they had a barbeque , i remember saying omg you bont the chicken , instead of burnt , i just think its where you are and how long it takes to pick up accent or the wording  

I hate KPSS (Public Personnel Choosing Exam). It is need to become a teacher in Turkey. This will be my fourth time. Studying it taking all my time but i will be free after Saturday and i will continue translating texts and helping people here.

Sana başarı diliyorum. I wish you success Gokuyum. 

 Bende
Kolay gelsin!