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Muska Böreği
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10.       bod
5999 posts
 01 Aug 2006 Tue 11:20 am

Quoting bliss:

Poor Bod!
Did you eat your Muska Böreği because I think 5 minutes were past long before all these grammar explanation.



I was hitting refresh every 30 seconds while cooking, hoping for some help......but none came in time But I deep fried them and they were very tasty

11.       bliss
900 posts
 01 Aug 2006 Tue 11:33 am

Glad to hear it. Next time do not wait for grammar rules to eat, do it as you wish, never fallow the instructions.

12.       bod
5999 posts
 01 Aug 2006 Tue 11:52 am

Quoting bliss:

Glad to hear it. Next time do not wait for grammar rules to eat, do it as you wish, never fallow the instructions.



I don't usually follow instructions - my cooking is good enough not to need to. But I was cooking something I hadn't tried before so thought I better at least understand the instructions

13.       bliss
900 posts
 01 Aug 2006 Tue 12:04 pm

I understand you very well. Usually I do not fallow the instructions.
Men are better chefs.

14.       erdinc
2151 posts
 01 Aug 2006 Tue 03:31 pm

Quoting bod:

havalandırarak dinlendiriniz
Set it aside by ventilating it



Hi Bod,
Winmekmak currently recognizes both conjugations correctly and it has the translations as well. Open winmekmak, press F3 key on your keyboard and write down havalandırarak or dinlendiriniz .

15.       bod
5999 posts
 01 Aug 2006 Tue 05:48 pm

Quoting erdinc:

Quoting bod:

havalandırarak dinlendiriniz
Set it aside by ventilating it



Hi Bod,
Winmekmak currently recognizes both conjugations correctly and it has the translations as well. Open winmekmak, press F3 key on your keyboard and write down havalandırarak or dinlendiriniz .



Thanks Erdinç.
But how can I tell (without using WinMekMak) that it is havalandir-arak and not havalan-dir-arak?

Nice to see that the new version of WinMekMak supports copy and paste of Türkçe characters

16.       erdinc
2151 posts
 01 Aug 2006 Tue 06:58 pm

Hi Bod,
This -dir suffix is the causative suffix.

Examples:
almak (to get) > aldırmak (to make somebody get)
bakmak > baktırmak (to make somebody look)
yapmak > yaptırmak (to make somebody do)

This issue is very smillar to passives:
germek (to stretch) > gerilmek (to be stretched)
bozmak (to break down) > bozulmak (to be broken down)

Now, the question is, "Is aldırmak a verb on its own or is it a variant of almak?" Smillarly, "Is 'gerilmek' a verb on its own or is it a variant of germek?"

These are a bit difficult to tell. My approach is to consider all those causative or passives as independent verbs. Therefore there is nothing wrong to say the infinitive of havalandırarak is havalandırmak.

In most cases the causatives or passives have different meanings then the version they were derived from. This means the causatives ort passives have such meaning that are not included in the definition of non-causative or non-passive versions. Those causative and passives need their own definitions. They are independent verbs. In some cases a verb might be omited from language but its passive or
causative verb can survive.

On winmekmak we couldn't prevent passives to take passive a second time. There is no causative conjugation at all so the problem was only with passives although the issues are the same.

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