Handsom you´ve mentioned this point of view before and I have to disagree with you.  I don´t think the majority of Turkish members leave because they can´t win an argument.  It seems to me that you believe the discussions are arguments to be won rather than debates where opinions are considered.  Of course there may be those who haven´t researched as much as you but there are several who do and hold a different view to you. 

I recommended this site to a Turkish friend and he joined, initially helping with translations and culture but he became involved in a political discussion and there were some who became extremely rude rather than debate sensibly.  He decided he didn´t want to visit a site where that happens.  He hasn´t deleted himself, but he hasn´t visited the site for the last 12 months.  The rudeness and personally insulting nature of the comments made to him were the reasons for his decision not to visit anymore, not the debate itself.

As an outsider, I am interested in reading these arguments, but there comes a point when I become switched off because they become too personal and all about ´winning´.  This particular thread has been particularly off putting because of the argument (I´m not levelling this at you btw, there have been quite a few getting involved on this thread).  Of course there´s another reason too, I am learning nothing new reading this particular thread. 

Turkey will have it´s racists, like any other nation, but I don´t agree with LIR that most foreign members on the site believe Turks are racist.  Has there been a poll?  One individual cannot speak for the membership, surely.

Please don´t misunderstand me, I am interested in reading the issues you enjoy posting about but I lose interest when old ground is covered and accusations of nationalism and racism are levelled at Turkish members.  I believe most of them aren´t nationalists or racists.  I am guessing that most Turks that visit this site know full well what the day to day shortcomings of their country are and they will vote accordingly.  As for ethnic issues such as those discussed here, I don´t think the truth will ever be known, no matter how much research material is posted to support a point of view.  So, members are left with a chance to discuss/debate rather than argue and accuse. 

If people wish to leave the site, it´s a matter for them, but I don´t believe it´s because they feel their arguments are weak.

I presume you are on your way to the airport now

I have not followed this thread completely, but I agree with PeaceTrain that the name-calling and attacks are not right. I am quite shocked that SuiGeneris was called racist and narro minded -- I think this is crossing the line. However... there is also another side of the story that some people do not accept views other then their own and get offended very easily... etc.

 I like this post. I think Merih summed up everything very well. Good points. Thank you.

I don´t agree with name calling either, however I happen to think we ALL have a little bit of racism in us, whether we want to admit it or not.  Do you agree?

 I agree, the treatment of SuiGeneris was shocking, not least because he has been a member here for a very long time and seems to be quite well respected. 

As for the other side of the story, yes many people don´t accept the views of others, thehandsom included.  I don´t feel that debate/discussion is always about ´accepting´ someone else´s view rather it´s about being able to put one´s point across in a civilised way.  I believe that the political discussions that proceed here are more about persuading the audience rather than the opposing participants.  I´m sure Turkish members don´t change their political view points because of a debate on a site like this, whether or not they live in Turkey. 

 Thanks Mltm..

Quote: Armegon

I try to read the thread from the beginning and i stopped on page 13 that i guess it will come to this point again (actually it come to this point on first page).

My thought too.

Quote:Armegon

I was labelled racist here many times in fact im not racist and no relation with them , but then i understood they call every Turk or everyone like that if they dont like their thoughts.

This is my observation of some members and it does seem to be an attempt to discredit counter arguments.

Whilst I understand what you´re trying to say here, some may misconstrue what you are saying.  I presume you aren´t saying all act this way, because we don´t. 

I have left this thread, not because I can´t defend what I think, but I believe, there is no one here, really trying to understand.. Please keep in mind that everybody´s knowledge is limited to his own experience.  I believe, when you want to find the truth about something, before you make a decision about what you believe, you should try to learn pros and cons of the topic.  Yes, you may know some people who have suffered, but I know some people who abused.. It doesn´t make you or me,  right or wrong, but that there are many dimensions of things, not only one..

I leave this thread, because it is boring not to debate maturely and try to learn each others experiences..  My brother once told me there are 3 kinds of people.. first ones are very stupid, they don´t learn anything until they hit their head to the wall.. the second type is the copycats, who does not try to learn anything on their own, but totally depend on others experiences.. third kind is the wise one.. he is not scared to experience if necessary, but always learn from others experiences too.

So please ask yourselves why are you here, and what have you learnt..

I have learnt nothing new... except lost my control once...  I know very well our shortcomings.. how nationalist we are, how the best, the biggest and the important things always belongs to us, how our country is perfect and nobody can say anything negative about it.. but believe me everybody knows.. but we need to stay together not to loose our country no matter what keeps us together.. whether you like it or not..

So, for Türkiye ... hip hip...   HURRAYYYYYYY

 I criticise my husband quite a lot - can this be called being positive?

catwoman, the name calling happens on many thread over and over again.  Just yesterday a MOD called Americans dumb and YOU pointed out that there is something wrong with the education system here in the US .     

I don´t like the name calling but it should be addressed as it happens and not selectively to protect only certain members of certain nationalities. 

 That mod is certainly me you are talking about.However I think you see things as you want to see because I´m 100% certainly sure that I didn´t call americans dumb. I was talking about the magnitude of dumbness in a country called the USA.

The name calling that we oppose here is very different though, it consists of personal attacks, directly targetted to members that you debate with.