Language |
|
|
|
|
|
Beri... !
|
| 1. |
09 Nov 2006 Thu 04:12 am |
|
İ understand that 'beri' means since,
How can we use it with nouns and verbs ?
İ saw those forms,
Ad + DIr
Ad +DAn beri ... both means since ?
And,
Eylem +DIk + iyelik eki +(n) dAn beri
(Eylem + DI +kişi eki) eylem + (mA) (y) AlI
What does that means ?
Can you support by examples please ?
Çok Tşk
|
|
| 2. |
09 Nov 2006 Thu 07:59 am |
|
Quoting CANLI: İ understand that 'beri' means since,
How can we use it with nouns and verbs ?
İ saw those forms,
Ad + DIr
Ad +DAn beri ... both means since ?
And,
Eylem +DIk + iyelik eki +(n) dAn beri
(Eylem + DI +kişi eki) eylem + (mA) (y) AlI
What does that means ?
Can you support by examples please ?
Çok Tşk |
First "-dir" and "-den beri" are not exactly the same. -dir is used for a period of time and "-den beri" is used to refer to a time in the past.
bir haftadır -- for a week (for a period of one week)
iki gündür -- for two days (for a period of two days)
bir haftadan beri -- since a week ago (something started a week ago and still continues)
iki günden beri -- since two days ago (something started two days ago and still continues)
-den beri is also used with noun and adjective clauses (which refer to an event in the past) and also means "since".
Ali İstanbula gitti -- Ali went İstanbul
Ali, İstanbula gittiğinden beri hergün beni arıyor.
Ali calls me everyday since he went İstanbul.
The same sentence can be constructed using "-eli beri".
Ali, İstanbula gideli beri hergün beni arıyor.
Ali calls me everyday since he went İstanbul
Note that in this construction the underlined subclause is a gerund clause and has no person and time. And also "beri" is optional in "-eli beri" and can be reduced to "-eli".
Ali, İstanbula gideli hergün beni arıyor.
Ali calls me everyday since he went İstanbul.
|
|
| 3. |
09 Nov 2006 Thu 07:47 pm |
|
Quoting aslan2:
Ali, İstanbula gittiğinden beri hergün beni arıyor.
Ali calls me everyday since he went İstanbul.
The same sentence can be constructed using "-eli beri".
Ali, İstanbula gideli beri hergün beni arıyor.
Ali calls me everyday since he went İstanbul
Note that in this construction the underlined subclause is a gerund clause and has no person and time. And also "beri" is optional in "-eli beri" and can be reduced to "-eli".
Ali, İstanbula gideli hergün beni arıyor.
Ali calls me everyday since he went İstanbul.
|
Thank you aslan2 so much,
But there is a person in 'gittiğinden' the 'in'
And doesn't 'dIk' consider a tense ?
Or you mean there is no person or time in 'eli beri' case ?
|
|
| 4. |
09 Nov 2006 Thu 09:49 pm |
|
Quoting CANLI: But there is a person in 'gittiğinden' the 'in'
And doesn't 'dIk' consider a tense ? |
isn't "Ali" a person?
"Ali,(o) İstanbul'a gittiğinden beri hergün beni arıyor.
Ali calls me everyday since he went İstanbul"
|
|
| 5. |
10 Nov 2006 Fri 04:00 am |
|
İ have those Örnek here,
1. 1996'dan beri evliyim.
5 yıldan beri evliyim.
5 yıldır evliyim.
2. Aylardan beri sigara içmiyorum.
Aylardır sigara içmiyorum.
Then that means,'dan beri' can be used in same place with 'dır',but,
'dır' cann't be used in 'dan beri' place, doğru mu ?
|
|
| 6. |
10 Nov 2006 Fri 05:50 am |
|
Doğru-- you cannot use DIr when referencing a specific point in time, like a specific day or hour, because of the fact that it refers to a duration, as opposed to -DAn beri which refers to a period that can start from a specific time...
yani--
22 Ocak 1999'dur------> OLMAZ
ama
22 Ocak 1999'dan beri----> olabilir (correct)
saat ikidir----> OLMAZ
ama
saat ikiden beri-----> olabilir
examples
Bir yıldır bu evde oturuyoruz.
We have been living in this house for one year.
Salı gününden beri hastayım.
I have been sick since tuesday.
The important thing to remember with both these expressions is that they are continuing actions... for example:
Iki yıl bu lokantada çalıştım.
I worked at this restaurant for two years (but not any longer)
As opposed to--
Iki yıldan beri bu lokantada çalışıyorum.
I have worked at this restaurant for two years (and still do)
|
|
| 7. |
10 Nov 2006 Fri 05:52 am |
|
|
|
| 8. |
10 Nov 2006 Fri 06:02 am |
|
Both are continuing, Doğru mu ?
İ mean both 'dIr' and 'den beri'.
|
|
| 9. |
10 Nov 2006 Fri 06:06 am |
|
I know both CAN be continuing, but I'm wondering if 'Dır' can refer to a period that has passed... I'm not sure... native speakers?
For sure Dan beri has to be continuing though.
|
|
| 10. |
10 Nov 2006 Fri 06:10 am |
|
No,this i know,DIr cann't refer to a passing time.
|
|
| 11. |
10 Nov 2006 Fri 06:14 am |
|
Quoting siyahkediyim: Doğru-- you cannot use DIr when referencing a specific point in time, like a specific day or hour, because of the fact that it refers to a duration, as opposed to -DAn beri which refers to a period that can start from a specific time...
|
But other than that,and the fact that DIR cann't be used to refer to a passing time,
They are both alike .Doğru mu ?
|
|
| 12. |
10 Nov 2006 Fri 06:32 am |
|
Evet, sanırım çünkü
Beş yıldan beri sigara içmedim.
Beş yıldır sigara içmedim.
Have the same meaning....
|
|
| 13. |
10 Nov 2006 Fri 08:24 am |
|
Quoting CANLI: Quoting aslan2:
Ali, İstanbula gittiğinden beri hergün beni arıyor.
Ali calls me everyday since he went İstanbul.
The same sentence can be constructed using "-eli beri".
Ali, İstanbula gideli beri hergün beni arıyor.
Ali calls me everyday since he went İstanbul
Note that in this construction the underlined subclause is a gerund clause and has no person and time. And also "beri" is optional in "-eli beri" and can be reduced to "-eli".
Ali, İstanbula gideli hergün beni arıyor.
Ali calls me everyday since he went İstanbul.
|
Thank you aslan2 so much,
But there is a person in 'gittiğinden' the 'in'
And doesn't 'dIk' consider a tense ?
Or you mean there is no person or time in 'eli beri' case ? |
I thought I was clear. I was talking about "-eli beri" of course. Gerund clauses doesn't convey time and person is expressed by using pronouns or names if necessary. You should check the main clause for the tense part. Of course "-eli beri" refers to an event in the past. On the other hand -dik shouldn't be considered a tense (See my example at the very end).
Examples for "-eli beri":
Ben, İstanbula gideli beri onu aramadım.
I didn't call her since I went to İstanbul
The underlined Turkish clause is used for "Ben" (I) and in the past by checking the main clause which is:
Ben onu aramadım.
If the underlined clause has a different person, you should use a name or personal pronoun (you cannot use any suffix for the person after "-eli beri"):
Ben, Ali İstanbula gideli beri onu aramadım.
I didn't call Ali since he went to İstanbul.
or
Since Ali went to İstanbul, I didn't call him.
If we use a pronoun for example:
Ali, ben İstanbula gideli beri beni aramıyor.
Ali doesn't call me since I went to İstanbul.
If we take this last example, in a clear context you can drop some parts:
Ali, İstanbula gideli beri beni aramıyor.
Ali, ben İstanbula gideli beri aramıyor.
Ali, İstanbula gideli beri aramıyor.
İstanbula gideli beri beni aramıyor.
Ben İstanbula gideli beri aramıyor.
İstanbula gideli beri aramıyor.
Ali, İstanbula gideli beni aramıyor.
Ali, ben İstanbula gideli aramıyor.
Ali, İstanbula gideli aramıyor.
İstanbula gideli beni aramıyor.
Ben İstanbula gideli aramıyor.
İstanbula gideli aramıyor.
And all of them might mean:
Ali doesn't call me since I went to İstanbul.
When there is no context, the last one would be very confusing indeed. To make it clear, you would have to ask a question like this:
q: Kim, kim İstanbula gideli kimi aramıyor?
a: Ali, ben İstanbula gideli beni aramıyor.
As for -dik, check these examples.
İstanbula gittiğimi biliyorsun.
You know that I went to İstanbul. (past)
You know that I am going to İstanbul.(present or future)
The underlined clause can be used for all the main tenses (i.e. past, present and future). Which tense is used should be understood with the help of the context.
|
|
|
