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DK's Grammar/translation questions ;)
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1. |
21 Nov 2006 Tue 05:56 pm |
If you are able to help, please just quote the question you are willing to answer. Explanations and/or corrections would be very much appreciated.
1.
Boşuna ağlama.
What does it exactly mean? Don't cry without a reason? Don't cry uselessly?
Does it mean the same as 'Boş yere ağlama' or doesn't that exist?
What does 'Ne kadar ağlasan boş' mean?
What sort of verb is 'ağlasan' ?
2.
İyi insanlara yalan söylemek yakışmıyor.
- İt is not appropriate for good people to tell lies. İs this a correct translation? İf so, how would you say:
İt is not appropriate to tell lies to good people?
-- Does yakışmak go with the ismin e-hali?
3.
Matematikten yüz alabileceğimi hayal bile edemezdim.
- I couldn't even dream of going to be able to get 100 from the mathematics exam. İs this a correct literal translation?
- I don't even dare to dream of getting 100 for the maths exam. Would this be a good 'real' translation?
Yarın hava güzel mi olacak dersiniz?
- Are you saying that the weather will be nice tomorrow?
4.
Alıştırma 6, örnek
kitap okumak / sen --> okuyacağın kitap
Did I do the following ones correctly?
1 kitap okumak / ben --> okuyacağım kitap
2 gazete okumak / siz --> okuyacağınız gazete
3 film seyretmek / onlar --> seyredeceği film
4 ders çalışmak / biz --> çalışacağız ders
5 arabaya binmek / sen --> bineceğin arabaya
6 kalem vermek / ben --> vereceğim kalem
I don't understand what they mean tho???
1 The book I will read ??
2 The newspaper you will read??
3 The film they will watch?
İf so, then why doesn't the noun get the ismin -i-hali (accusative)? As it becomes a defined accusative?
5.
Bugün ne yapacaksın? Ne yapacağımı bilmiyorum ki!
- What does -ki- mean here, or what function does it have? Would hte sentence be wrong or loose its power if you don't use ki here?
Are these correct?
1 Bugün nereye gidecek? - Nereye gideceği bilmiyor ki!
2 Bu kitabı ne zaman okuyacaksın? - Bu kitabı ne zaman okuyacağımı bilmiyorum ki!
3 Ne zaman dinleneceğiz? - Ne zaman dinleneceğimizi bilmiyoruz ki!
I dont quite understand the grammar of -yapacağımı- etc. here. Well, i understnad the very first example sentence, but then when other persons but the first person singular come up, I get confues. Please explain this grammar and the usage of ki.
6.
Sınıfımı geçeceğim diyorsa geçer / Sınıfımı geçemeyeceğim diyorsa geçemez.
What does it mean? How is this sentence set up?
7.
DİYE.
What does diye exactly mean and when it is used?
'Benimle gelir misin?' diye sordum, 'Hayir' diye cevap verdi. --> İs such a construction only used in books and writings or could it also be like this?
A 's friend came to İzmir and B asks when he will go back to Ankara.
B: Arkadaşın ne zaman Ankara'ya dönecek?
A: Gelecek hafta. 'Kaç gün kalacaksın?- diye sordum, 'Beş gün İzmir'de kalacağım' diye cevap verdi.
B: When will your friend return to Ankara?
A: Next week. I asked him how long he will stay and he answered ' I will stay in İzmir for 5 days'.
What does this mean?
Gelir diye bekledim ama gelmedi.
8.
Hasta çocuk, ne onu yiyor ne bunu.
The ill child doesn't eat that nor this. İs this a correct translation?
So ne....ne doesnt have an olumsuz verb, the way hiç does?
Ne kavgam bitti ne sevdam --> Nor my fight nor my love has ended. ne..ne .. used with a positive verb -bitti- (not bitmedi)
Kavgam hiç bitmez --> My argument isnt finished at all. Hiç used with a negative verb -bitmez- (not biter)
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Thanks in advance!
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2. |
21 Nov 2006 Tue 06:12 pm |
Quoting Deli_kizin:
1.
Boşuna ağlama.
What does it exactly mean? Don't cry without a reason? Don't cry uselessly?
Does it mean the same as 'Boş yere ağlama' or doesn't that exist?
What does 'Ne kadar ağlasan boş' mean?
What sort of verb is 'ağlasan' ?
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close. boşuna = in vain. It means you will not get what you want by crying.
ne kadar ...-san = no matter how much ...
ne kadar ağlasan boş = it's useless no matter how much you cry
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3. |
21 Nov 2006 Tue 06:26 pm |
Quoting Deli_kizin:
2.
İyi insanlara yalan söylemek yakışmıyor.
- İt is not appropriate for good people to tell lies. İs this a correct translation? İf so, how would you say:
İt is not appropriate to tell lies to good people?
-- Does yakışmak go with the ismin e-hali?
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yes.
İt is not appropriate to tell lies to good people?
also can be translated with the same sentence:
İyi insanlara yalan söylemek yakışmıyor.
İt is not appropriate for good people to tell lies.
İyi insanlara yalan söylemek yakışmıyor.
underlined part is the subject of the sentence.
iyi insanlar is the object of the sentence
İt is not appropriate to tell lies to good people.
İyi insanlara yalan söylemek yakışmıyor.
underlined part is the subject of the sentence.
As you can guess, objects should be in "-e hali".
If it is subject, you don't need it.
So if you re-order the first one, you can get rid of the ambiguity.
yalan söylemek iyi insanlara yakışmıyor.
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4. |
21 Nov 2006 Tue 06:42 pm |
Quoting Deli_kizin:
3.
Matematikten yüz alabileceğimi hayal bile edemezdim.
- I couldn't even dream of going to be able to get 100 from the mathematics exam. İs this a correct literal translation?
- I don't even dare to dream of getting 100 for the maths exam. Would this be a good 'real' translation?
Yarın hava güzel mi olacak dersiniz?
- Are you saying that the weather will be nice tomorrow?
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I couldn't even dream of the fact that I would be able to get 100 from the math exam. (literally so)
Second one is not good. In Turkish it would mean
Matematikten 100 almayı aklıma bile getirmem.
bla bla mı dersiniz? = do you think bla bla
Yarın hava güzel mi olacak dersiniz?
Do you think that the weather will be nice tomorrow?
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5. |
21 Nov 2006 Tue 08:57 pm |
Three questions down, five to go!
Thank you for your help Aslan2!
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6. |
21 Nov 2006 Tue 09:11 pm |
Quoting Deli_kizin: 4.
Alıştırma 6, örnek
kitap okumak / sen --> okuyacağın kitap
Did I do the following ones correctly?
1 kitap okumak / ben --> okuyacağım kitap
2 gazete okumak / siz --> okuyacağınız gazete
3 film seyretmek / onlar --> seyredeceği film
4 ders çalışmak / biz --> çalışacağız ders
5 arabaya binmek / sen --> bineceğin arabaya
6 kalem vermek / ben --> vereceğim kalem |
Number 3.
onların seyredeceği film
or
seyredecekleri film
or
onların seyredecekleri film
or maybe onlar will watch many films: "filmler" (same as these 3 all)
Quoting Deli_kizin: I don't understand what they mean tho???
1 The book I will read ??
2 The newspaper you will read??
3 The film they will watch? |
Yes, your attempts are right.
Quoting Deli_kizin: İf so, then why doesn't the noun get the ismin -i-hali (accusative)? As it becomes a defined accusative? |
Like what? Why must they have -i?
If you ask about in the sentence as defined object, you are right, they must have:
Arkadaşım Ahmet okuyacağım kitabı verdi.
My friend Ahmet gave the book I will read
Ayşe okuyacağın gazeteyi çöpe attı.
Ayşe chucked out the newspaper you will read.
But if they are subjects of the sentence, they doesn't have -i suffix:
Okuyacağım kitap çok güzel.
The book I will read is very good.
Okuyacağın gazete anlamsız yazılarla dolu.
The newspaper you will read is full of meaningless texts.
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7. |
21 Nov 2006 Tue 09:43 pm |
Quoting Deli_kizin: 5.
Bugün ne yapacaksın? Ne yapacağımı bilmiyorum ki!
- What does -ki- mean here, or what function does it have? Would hte sentence be wrong or loose its power if you don't use ki here? |
I am not sure about the literal explanation but practically, what you think is right. Let's look at another example:
Ahmet-Ali nerede? Where is Ali?
Mehmet-Bilmiyorum. I don't know.
This is a normal dialogue. What about with "ki"?
Ahmet-Ali nerede? Where is Ali?
Mehmet-Bilmiyorum ki! I don't know
Here, in this example, I understand that Mehmet doesn't know the answer and wonders too. Or maybe he is confused or surprized about this question. He may go on to say:
Bir dakika önce buradaydı... He was here one minute ago...
or
Bana "Geleceğim" demişti He said "I will come"
I mean, with "ki", the answer refers on that the person who answers wants to know the real answer too, or he thinks that he knew but he failed. You will feel the same thing below...
Quoting Deli_kizin: Are these correct?
1 Bugün nereye gidecek? - Nereye gideceği bilmiyor ki!
2 Bu kitabı ne zaman okuyacaksın? - Bu kitabı ne zaman okuyacağımı bilmiyorum ki!
3 Ne zaman dinleneceğiz? - Ne zaman dinleneceğimizi bilmiyoruz ki! |
Number 1
Nereye gideceğini bilmiyor ki!
I feel a little angry here.Let me write the names in order to understand clearly who is who and who says what, as a full dialogue:
Ahmet: Ayşe bugün nereye gidecek?
Mehmet: Nereye gideceğini bilmiyor ki!
Mehmet says that Ayşe must know the place to go, but we understand that she(Ayşe) doesn't know where to go.
2
your answer is ok, and we understand that he doesn't have time to read the book, so he is confused. Or maybe, there are a lot of work, so he is angry because of this conditionals.
3
Answer is ok, and you may think it same as the sentence 2. A- When will we relax?
B- We don't know that! << maybe there is the anger too, or confuse... or surprize about the question... Depends on the conditionals.
Quoting Deli_kizin: I dont quite understand the grammar of -yapacağımı- etc. here. Well, i understnad the very first example sentence, but then when other persons but the first person singular come up, I get confues. Please explain this grammar and the usage of ki. |
I think we should have some examples again. But I can't get exactly what you are confused about.
Ne yapacağımı bilmiyorum...
We should think this in two ways:
I don't know what to do
or
I don't know what I will do
What about other examples? Hmmm
Gideceğimi biliyor musun?
Do you know that I will go
Hayır, gideceğini bilmiyordum
No, I didn't know that you will go
I don't know what else I can say...
Ohh it is hard to find examples...
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8. |
21 Nov 2006 Tue 09:50 pm |
Thank you Caliptrix, that was really helpful I understand it now.
Does bilmek go with the ismin i-hali then?
If you have time I would be thankful if you could do the others too, this way I learn more than at school!
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9. |
21 Nov 2006 Tue 09:58 pm |
Quoting Deli_kizin: 6.
Sınıfımı geçeceğim diyorsa geçer / Sınıfımı geçemeyeceğim diyorsa geçemez.
What does it mean? How is this sentence set up? |
If he says "I will pass my class (pass the exams and go on with the next year ordinary)", he will!
If he says "I can't pass my class", he cannot!
Normally, sınıfı geçmek means to pass the all exams of the year and succes to the next year. This is almost for primary/high schools. In some universities like medical in Turkey have same system. If you can't pass all the exams (or most of them), you have to repeat. so it is called: sınıfta kalmak or sınıfı geçememek
And remember Nike adversitement:
If you want, you can! (or maybe another ads, sorry if not Nike)
İstiyorsan, başarırsın! (or directly: yapabilirsin!)
Gelecekse gelsin!
If he will come, let him come! << there is a defiance!
What else?
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10. |
21 Nov 2006 Tue 10:08 pm |
Quoting Deli_kizin: 7.
DİYE.
What does diye exactly mean and when it is used?
'Benimle gelir misin?' diye sordum, 'Hayir' diye cevap verdi. --> İs such a construction only used in books and writings or could it also be like this?
A 's friend came to İzmir and B asks when he will go back to Ankara.
B: Arkadaşın ne zaman Ankara'ya dönecek?
A: Gelecek hafta. 'Kaç gün kalacaksın?- diye sordum, 'Beş gün İzmir'de kalacağım' diye cevap verdi.
B: When will your friend return to Ankara?
A: Next week. I asked him how long he will stay and he answered ' I will stay in İzmir for 5 days'.
What does this mean?
Gelir diye bekledim ama gelmedi. |
Direct speech!
"Kaç gün kalacaksın?" diye sordum
I asked "how many days will you stay?"
"Üç gün" diye cevapladı
"three days" he answered.
It is because of the verb: sormak and cevap vermek (or cevaplamak)
If you use demek, there is not "diye":
"Kaç gün kalacaksın?" dedim.
"üç gün" dedi.
Same as the previous...
ağlamak goes with "diye" too:
"Annem nerede?" diye ağladı.
He cried "where is my mom?"
söz vermek(promise), kandırmak(cheat or tell lie?) and yalan söylemek(lie) are also three more I remember.
"Geleceğim" diye beni kandırdın.
"alacağım" diye yalan söyledi.
"yiyeceğim" diye söz verdi.
Maybe for all verbs which we use with quotes, besides demek... I am not sure.
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11. |
21 Nov 2006 Tue 10:15 pm |
Gelir diye bekledim ama gelmedi.
I waited because I expected that he would come, but he didn't.
gelir << there is an estimation. "(I expect that) he will come"
falan diye bekledim << directly the verb "to wait", and "I waited" about that estimation.
gider diye ümit ettim I hoped that he would go
bekler diye düşÃ¼ndüm I thought that he would wait
kızar sandım (without "diye") I thought he would be angry
Without "diye" because of the verb sanmak
OMG... Are there rules about that?
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12. |
21 Nov 2006 Tue 10:21 pm |
Quoting Deli_kizin: Thank you Caliptrix, that was really helpful I understand it now.
Does bilmek go with the ismin i-hali then? |
Exactly!
I remember only one exception:
Ne biliyorsun?
(there may be a contempt...)
What do you know?
or
there is also another expression: "how do you know!" like: "you cant know that, dont lie about that you knew"
Neyi biliyorsun?
There is something specific to know and he asks about it.
What do you know?
Quoting Deli_kizin: If you have time I would be thankful if you could do the others too, this way I learn more than at school! |
Ok, appreciate me
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13. |
21 Nov 2006 Tue 10:35 pm |
Quoting Deli_kizin: 8.
Hasta çocuk, ne onu yiyor ne bunu.
The ill child doesn't eat that nor this. İs this a correct translation? |
Yes, right.
Quoting Deli_kizin: So ne....ne doesnt have an olumsuz verb, the way hiç does?
Ne kavgam bitti ne sevdam --> Nor my fight nor my love has ended. ne..ne .. used with a positive verb -bitti- (not bitmedi)
Kavgam hiç bitmez --> My argument isnt finished at all. Hiç used with a negative verb -bitmez- (not biter) |
Normally, "ne... ne...." has to be positive (olumlu), but you may see in some speeches, people may do wrong. Don't worry, be happy! everyone may fail
Ne arabaları sever ne yolları.
He likes neither cars nor roads (is the English sentence right?
But hiç means "never" in your example:
Kavgam hiç bitmez
My fight never ends
Baharlar hiç gelmez, ömrüm hep kış olur...
Springs never come, my life is always winter...
Ben seni hiç sevmedim ki...
I have never loved you...
(oh my god, there is a "ki" He must be angry or upset or confused or all of them because of this love)
But in questions, this may be different:
Hiç Amerika'ya gittin mi?
Have you ever been in America?
or maybe same:
Hiç mi sevmedin?
You never loved?
or maybe he is asking about the degree of the other's love:
You loved none? (even not a little?)
So, hiç may refer the degreee "none"
Ödevini hiç yapmamış.
He made none of his homework.
But generally "never".
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14. |
21 Nov 2006 Tue 10:41 pm |
Thank you very very much This is really information worth studying. Thanks again!
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15. |
23 Nov 2006 Thu 07:58 pm |
Some more questions to be answered, please.
Today İ studied all the words from Ceyda's big list(yes I got bored as I was slightly ill today and spent all the day in the waaarm bed). Now there are some of which either I dont totally understand the meaning (probably caused by english not being my mothertongue) or of which I dont know how you could use them.
If someone native/fluent could please use the words in a phrase and translate that sentence to English (you dont have to stick to the exact english translation I gave), this thread would become more worth
A.
Abone - subscriber, subscription
Ahır - stable
Allahtan - luckily, fortunately
Arıza - breakdown, defect
Artmak - to increase
Arzu etmek - to wish, want, desire (any difference in the feeling of the word with İstemek?)
Ayrıca - in addition, moreover
B.
Basmak - to tread on, to squash, to step
Bayağı - quite
Becermek - to manage to do something
Bu seferlik - just this once
CÇ.
Çağdaş - contemporary
Çakmak - to hammer, to strike
Çakmak (-den) - to cotton on (huh???)
Çarpmak - to hit, to beat
Çevre - surroundings
D.
Dövülmüş - beaten, crushed (dövmek - to beat, to crush)
Dernek - association, society
Duble - a double
dakik - punctual
Düdük - beep
As the alphabet has more letters there are more to follow.. I will add when İ wrote them down while studying.
Thanks in advance!
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16. |
23 Nov 2006 Thu 08:38 pm |
Quoting Deli_kizin: Some more questions to be answered, please.
Today İ studied all the words from Ceyda's big list(yes I got bored as I was slightly ill today and spent all the day in the waaarm bed). Now there are some of which either I dont totally understand the meaning (probably caused by english not being my mothertongue) or of which I dont know how you could use them.
If someone native/fluent could please use the words in a phrase and translate that sentence to English (you dont have to stick to the exact english translation I gave), this thread would become more worth
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If you google any of them, you should get many sentences.
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17. |
23 Nov 2006 Thu 09:13 pm |
Quoting aslan2: If you google any of them, you should get many sentences. |
They wont have an english translation though and that way I can also study the sentences, which will enlarge vocab and sentence construction.
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18. |
24 Nov 2006 Fri 09:39 am |
Quoting Deli_kizin: Quoting aslan2: If you google any of them, you should get many sentences. |
They wont have an english translation though and that way I can also study the sentences, which will enlarge vocab and sentence construction. |
Yes. But isn't it better. You yourself try to decode them first. If you are still in trouble, you can post them to "Practice Turkish" section.
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19. |
24 Nov 2006 Fri 06:38 pm |
Quoting aslan2: Yes. But isn't it better. You yourself try to decode them first. If you are still in trouble, you can post them to "Practice Turkish" section. |
Haklısın, gerçekten haklısın ama oooooooooo kadar zamanım yok ve belki İngilizcesini ilerletmeye çalışmayı isteyenler var Ama zamanım varsa ben şÃ¶yle yapacam.
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20. |
24 Nov 2006 Fri 11:17 pm |
Quoting Deli_kizin: Quoting aslan2: Yes. But isn't it better. You yourself try to decode them first. If you are still in trouble, you can post them to "Practice Turkish" section. |
Haklısın, gerçekten haklısın ama oooooooooo kadar zamanım yok ve belki İngilizcesini ilerletmeye çalışmayı isteyenler var Ama zamanım varsa ben şÃ¶yle yapacam. |
NOOOOO!!!! I am exactly against to the chat language in forums!!! Never "yapacam"! It must be yapacağım!!!
By the way, şÃ¶yle is used with something that comes after it.
ŞÃ¶yle yapalım; önce yemek yeriz, ardından sinemaya gideriz.
"şÃ¶yle" shows that you will say what are you talking about, so you can't use it without an explanation.
zamanım varsa << be careful for this: If you are sure about that you will have time, we don't say: "varsa", "if there is"/"if i have". We say: "var" without if clause.
If you are not sure, you must say: "olursa", because you are talking about future, and we say it with "become" (changing of the conditionals)
Ama zamanım olursa bunu yapacağım.
Hey, your Turkish is very good, so you must write more in Turkish, I think...
Kolay gelsin
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21. |
25 Nov 2006 Sat 11:59 am |
Quoting caliptrix:
Ama zamanım olursa bunu yapacağım.
Hey, your Turkish is very good, so you must write more in Turkish, I think...
Kolay gelsin  |
Thank you, I always mix olmak and var up. I managed to say 'param varsaydı'
And about the şÃ¶yle.. I should've known! Now that you say it I realize that my teacher always says 'şÃ¶yle yapacağım' and then gives an example of how she wants us to communicate or do the alıştırma.
I'll try to talk more turkish then Bana kolay gelsin
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22. |
29 Nov 2006 Wed 11:55 pm |
Quoting caliptrix: Quoting Deli_kizin: 4.
Alıştırma 6, örnek
kitap okumak / sen --> okuyacağın kitap
Did I do the following ones correctly?
1 kitap okumak / ben --> okuyacağım kitap
2 gazete okumak / siz --> okuyacağınız gazete
3 film seyretmek / onlar --> seyredeceği film
4 ders çalışmak / biz --> çalışacağız ders
5 arabaya binmek / sen --> bineceğin arabaya
6 kalem vermek / ben --> vereceğim kalem |
Number 3.
onların seyredeceği film
or
seyredecekleri film
or
onların seyredecekleri film
or maybe onlar will watch many films: "filmler" (same as these 3 all)
Quoting Deli_kizin: I don't understand what they mean tho???
1 The book I will read ??
2 The newspaper you will read??
3 The film they will watch? |
Yes, your attempts are right.
Quoting Deli_kizin: İf so, then why doesn't the noun get the ismin -i-hali (accusative)? As it becomes a defined accusative? |
Like what? Why must they have -i?
If you ask about in the sentence as defined object, you are right, they must have:
Arkadaşım Ahmet okuyacağım kitabı verdi.
My friend Ahmet gave the book I will read
Ayşe okuyacağın gazeteyi çöpe attı.
Ayşe chucked out the newspaper you will read.
But if they are subjects of the sentence, they doesn't have -i suffix:
Okuyacağım kitap çok güzel.
The book I will read is very good.
Okuyacağın gazete anlamsız yazılarla dolu.
The newspaper you will read is full of meaningless texts. |
Not çalışacağız ders.çalışacağımız ders.
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