Quoting erdinc:

Here are some pictures from İzmir rally.
http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/modules/gallery/070512izmirmiting/

Quoting aslı:

LTC you are against of everything ı guess.

Quoting azade:

catwoman I have had respect for you but when it comes to this issue you're jumping peoples throats and I see no reason for that. This discussion is very flammable.

Quoting LCT:

Those rallies in İstanbul, Ankara, İzmir and Manisa with the concurrent rise in nationalism scare me more than anything the AKP say.

Some of those on the demo would prefer a coup than to uphold the democratic process just because they don't like who might get elected.

A strange way to claim they are defending democracy.

Quoting LCT:

What gives you the right to think that your understanding of Turkey is any better or more correct than mine?

Because the people you are disagreeing with are Turks, and you are not.

Back in the early 1920s when the republic was formed the need for a strong national identity in order to cement a bulwark against the threat of imperialism was very real and wholly justified. However this is no longer the early 1920s and those conditions have long since gone.

Long since gone? Take a look at Turkey's Arab neighbors. This is not the type of government that will continue Turkey's modernization.

It seems to me that the doctrine of nationalism has remained like a stuck clock.

Are you sure your not talking about the Arabic Muslim governments, not Turkey?


Why are those people on the rallies not attacking the AKP on questions of poverty, education and the War in Iraq?

You form the anti-Iraq war rally, and I will come.

Because the majority of those behind it are from the lower and upper middle classes and therefore do not share those concerns. They have the same position on those issues as the AKP. They are relatively comfortable and can so afford to worry about the ghost of laicism. It is the only thing they can cling to, to use as a tool to voice their fears.

This point is so un-clear

They were saying on the rallies.. No left.. No right let's come together a third way....

That has a very scary precedence..

How is this scary? There was no violence. The only thing scary is the posibilty of a backwards islamic government

Quoting LCT:

LCT:Is holding Turkish nationality the only qualification for understanding Turkey?

I think that those that live here, were educated here, read the newspapers here, and watch the news on TV here, do have a better understanding than almost all foreigners. YES

Well that means that everybody who holds Turkish nationality has an understanding of the problem..
AKP,CHP,MHP,....etc.the people....
Do you agree with all these people?
You cannot fully agree until you fully understand.

Do you have to be black to understand that racism is wrong?
Do you have to be a woman to understand that sexism is wrong? No!
No, but a black may have more understanding being subjected to racism than a white, and a woman may have more understanding of being subjected to sexism than a man

second point How do you know I don't hold Turkish citizenship?
I was not born in this country that is true but I live here.
I think we all know that. But, having not being raised here, or educated here, or having read extensivally on turkish history and political subjects, your opinion is not as valid lets say as a person who has gone through nearly 20 years of the turkish educational system

I speak some Turkish and I came here to learn some more.
I got into an argument with someone here mainly because I objected to having my grammar corrected in English.
I wanted it to be corrected in Turkish...
I like ice hockey. Neither point has anything to do with turkish politics

I do not defend the sort of nationalism we are talking about anywhere...We may never agree on this but nationalism for me is aborrent...
You have the right to your opinion. Even if it is uninformed...

I do not defend the nationalism of the country I was born in or any other country..I am an internationalist...
I would be very interested to know what country you are from....can you tell us?

You work it out?
Isn't that scary?
Work what out? Your messages are so cryptic...

Quoting KeithL:

In this short paragraph, you have displayed however that you don't fully understand turkish history, especially in the post WWI era.
Turkey would be nothing without its staunch defense of secularism. And foreseeing the potential in the future for a pro-islamic government to be in power, Ataturk made it impossible for them to run government. And Ataturk himself gave the military not only the authority, but THE RESPONSIBILITY, to not let an Islamic government take hold.
As foreigner, the turkish military's actions might scare you, but it does not scare the turkish people. The militray's approval rating remains in the high 90's. At best, the AK Party approval ratings are in the high 40's.
These demonstrations are clear support for government as Ataturk envisioned and established here.

Quoting qdemir:

remember colonel Talat Aydemir.

Quoting LCT:

It is clear that this argument is going nowhere.
I still stand on a position opposing nationalism.
The only nationalism I would defend is that of an oppressed group fighting against imperialism.
The problem as I see it lies between the rich and the poor.
the boss and the worker.
I do not identify with someone because of their nationality.
The idea is absurd.
I have more in common with people all over the world by virtue of class than anything else.
İn Turkey, as everywhere, I look to the working class.
We are the ones who make everything produce everything.
Not the likes of Baykal or Erdogan...

So do not ask me to support some cross class alliance of nationalists bent on serving their own ends..