General/Off-topic |
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Egyptian Girl dies during circumcision
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1. |
13 Aug 2007 Mon 10:57 am |
Sometime ago there was a topic that people were talking on circumcision. On my way to home, I received a U.A.E.(B.A.E. in Turkish) newspaper(Gulf News) in the airplane. There was a news about that. I just want to share it with you.
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Egyptian girl dies during circumcision:
Facility shut and doctor being quizzed.
Cairo(AFP) a 13-year-old Egyptian girl has died during an illegal operation to mutilate her genitalia, the Al Masri Al Yom daily reported yesterday.
Karima Rahim Massud died as the result of problems with the anasthaesia in the Nile Delta village of Gharbiya.
Her death was discovered after her father sought a death certificate from another doctor.
The medical practice where the operation took place has been closed, and the doctor is being interrogated, the newspaper said.
Female genital mutilation, also known as female circumcision, is a practice that dates back to pharaonic times in Egypt.
It is common in a band that stretches from Senegal in West Africa to Somalia on the East Coast, and from Egypt in the north to Tanzania in the south. The practice, which affects both Muslim and Christian women in Egypt, was banned in 1997 but doctors were allowed to operate "in exceptional cases".
Female circumcision can cause death through hemorrhaging and later complications during childbirth. It also carries risks of infection, urinary tract problems and mental trauma.
Banned
In June, following the death of 12-year-old Bedur Ahmad Shaker, Health Minister Hatem Al Gabali issued a decree banning every doctor and member of the medical profession from performing the procedure.
The ban must still be translated into law and could face a tough debate in parliament, but is likely to be passed.
A government survey in 2000 said the practice was carried out on 97 percent of the country's women aged between 15 and 45 years of age.
Religious leaders, usually silent on taboos relating to female sexuality, have also started to speak out against the practice, which many Egyptians believe is a duty under Islam and Christianity. After the death of Shaker, chief mufti Ali Gomaa declared female circumcision forbidden under Islam.
Mohammad Sayyed Tantawi, the Shaikh of Al Azhar University, the top Sunni Muslim authority, and Coptic Patriarch Chenouda III also declared it had "no foundation in the religious texts" of either Islam or Christianity.
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2. |
13 Aug 2007 Mon 11:13 am |
Besides the horrible act itself, I find awful that her father wanted a death certificate telling her death was 'a natural death'! Mutulating your daughter and then say 'it is natural'?
For those of you who want to know in which countries it occurs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting
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3. |
13 Aug 2007 Mon 12:22 pm |
This act only in Egypt and some African countries neighboring. Egyptian intellectuals trying to get rid of this phenomenon, but the insistence of ignorant people due to historical periods have nothing to do with the religion of Islam or Christian
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4. |
13 Aug 2007 Mon 03:54 pm |
The speaker on the wonders of the Patriarchial Society
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5. |
13 Aug 2007 Mon 04:10 pm |
Quoting elham: This act only in Egypt and some African countries neighboring. Egyptian intellectuals trying to get rid of this phenomenon, but the insistence of ignorant people due to historical periods have nothing to do with the religion of Islam or Christian |
Have you read the link I gave, Elham? I doubt it, else you would know it also occurs in Iraq.
Whilst FGC is widely practiced out in the open by African Muslims and Ethiopians and Eritreans of all faiths, it is practiced in secrecy in some parts of the Middle East. The practice occurs particularly in northern Saudi Arabia, southern Jordan, and Iraq, and there is also circumstantial evidence to suggest it is present in Syria, western Iran and southern Turkey. In Oman a few communities still practice FGC; however, experts believed that the number of such cases was small and declining annually. In the United Arab Emirates and also Saudi Arabia, it is practiced mainly among foreign workers from East Africa and the Nile Valley.
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6. |
15 Aug 2007 Wed 06:19 pm |
Quoting AEnigma III:
The speaker on the wonders of the Patriarchial Society  |
An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth
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7. |
15 Aug 2007 Wed 06:33 pm |
Quoting elham: Quoting AEnigma III:
The speaker on the wonders of the Patriarchial Society  |
An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth
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Oops, yes it was a bit wasn't it sorry - you caught me on a bad day!
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9. |
15 Aug 2007 Wed 06:53 pm |
Quoting elham: no problem canim
we are only speaker on nothing |
I should inform you that I am an expert on NOTHING! It is my speciality subject!
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10. |
15 Aug 2007 Wed 07:00 pm |
Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting elham: no problem canim
we are only speaker on nothing |
I should inform you that I am an expert on NOTHING! It is my speciality subject! |
yes , you are right, me too, but do you know, what is the last news of NOTHING?
cause i did not attend the meeting of NOTHING
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11. |
15 Aug 2007 Wed 07:04 pm |
Quoting elham: Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting elham: no problem canim
we are only speaker on nothing |
I should inform you that I am an expert on NOTHING! It is my speciality subject! |
yes , you are right, me too, but do you know, what is the last news of NOTHING?
cause i did not attend the meeting of NOTHING |
Well I am a bit angry that you missed it because now I have been given so many assignments before the next meeting. Basically it seems I have to do NOTHING all evening despite having spent a tiring day at work today doing NOTHING. I will need a restful holiday after all this
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12. |
15 Aug 2007 Wed 07:14 pm |
im sure you will tell me about this meeting
ok canim take your time of rest and I represented you to do a lot of NOTHING this evening ,
really i have NOTHING, only reply you,
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13. |
15 Aug 2007 Wed 10:56 pm |
Call me ignorant, but a girl being circumsized?
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14. |
15 Aug 2007 Wed 10:57 pm |
Quoting teaschip1: Call me ignorant, but a girl being circumsized? |
Ouh TC!
I guess, if it doesn't happen in the US, you don't hear about such things on your news! Hardly circumcision, more mutilation...
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15. |
15 Aug 2007 Wed 11:00 pm |
interestingly it happens only in muslim (african) communities.
the reason its been done is so that a woman wont be able to cheat on her husband.
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16. |
15 Aug 2007 Wed 11:01 pm |
No, sorry but I have never heard of this. Would you like to enlighten me with this?
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17. |
15 Aug 2007 Wed 11:05 pm |
Quoting femme_fatal: interestingly it happens only in muslim (african) communities.
the reason its been done is so that a woman wont be able to cheat on her husband. |
What the heck do they do to them?
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18. |
15 Aug 2007 Wed 11:06 pm |
teaschip
the key word "female circumcision" in google and you ll see all the horror of this fact.
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19. |
15 Aug 2007 Wed 11:08 pm |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting
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20. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 01:16 pm |
Quoting femme_fatal: interestingly it happens only in muslim (african) communities.
the reason its been done is so that a woman wont be able to cheat on her husband. |
This act has nothing to do with Islam, Islam is innocent of it, Because there are many Muslim countries do not act it.
Only Egypt and some neighboring countries,like somalia, , Sudan, Ethiopia, and Mali.
so please femme_fatal, avoid accusing Islam in all big and small
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21. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 01:53 pm |
Quoting elham: so please femme_fatal, avoid accusing Islam in all big and small |
And take away Femme Fatal's main enjoyment in life??? Ouh you cruel thing! She doesn't smoke, she doesn't drink, she doesn't even listen to music - take away her Islam-bashing and she has nothing! You may as well kill her!
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22. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 02:51 pm |
Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting elham: so please femme_fatal, avoid accusing Islam in all big and small |
And take away Femme Fatal's main enjoyment in life??? Ouh you cruel thing! She doesn't smoke, she doesn't drink, she doesn't even listen to music - take away her Islam-bashing and she has nothing! You may as well kill her!  |
What happened to you, my friend , who said biography of killing, what you said is nonsense
i prefer not reply you after that, Because there are many in this forum prefer argumentation and false charges :-S
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23. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 02:58 pm |
Quoting elham: Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting elham: so please femme_fatal, avoid accusing Islam in all big and small |
And take away Femme Fatal's main enjoyment in life??? Ouh you cruel thing! She doesn't smoke, she doesn't drink, she doesn't even listen to music - take away her Islam-bashing and she has nothing! You may as well kill her!  |
What happened to you, my friend , who said biography of killing, what you said is nonsense |
She meant by doing this,as if you are killing her.
She was just joking.
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24. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 02:59 pm |
Quoting elham: What happened to you, my friend , who said biography of killing, what you said is nonsense |
Ouh .
Did you misunderstand my joke
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25. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 03:02 pm |
Quoting elham:
Only Egypt and some neighboring countries,like somalia, , Sudan, Ethiopia, and Mali.
so please femme_fatal, avoid accusing Islam in all big and small |
İts not an İslamic thing,as you must read in the link which Femme has posted 'i wonder if she read it !'
Both Muslim and Christians used to do it as you read.
And its not common in Egypt too elham,maybe it was 100 yrs ago,i dont know,but only ignorant,and none educated people doing it.
Some people didnt know about it except only from the newspaper!
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26. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 03:08 pm |
I agree you can't blame Islam for this - but let's not detract from the horror of it. I can't begin to imagine what those poor woman suffer. Until I read the link I didn't know about the childbirth problems as well.
It is truly vile - and it seems, part of everyday life in Somalia....
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27. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 03:14 pm |
Quoting AEnigma III: poor woman suffer. |
poor girls you mean,they usually do it to their girls in small age,same as boys
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28. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 03:17 pm |
Quoting CANLI: Quoting AEnigma III: poor woman suffer. |
poor girls you mean,they usually do it to their girls in small age,same as boys |
Yes correction, girls...and then for the rest of their lives, after each child etc....
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29. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 03:26 pm |
Quoting CANLI: Quoting elham:
And its not common in Egypt too elham,maybe it was 100 yrs ago,i dont know,but only ignorant,and none educated people doing it.
Some people didnt know about it except only from the newspaper
yes ofcourse, CANLY, its not common in Egypt too , i said in first post to me that Egyptian intellectuals do not do this and it is the most tradition pharaonic, you can read it above |
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30. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 03:27 pm |
Quoting AEnigma III:
and then for the rest of their lives, after each child etc....  |
For the rest of their lives?!:-S
They used to do it for the girls only once when they are young,as i said exactly as boys.
İ guess i will to check the link
Edited: as i said in Egypt,they dont do it like that at every childbirth.
They used to do it to the girls once in young age.
But its still something horrible not in İslam nor Christianity and against the law here too.
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31. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 03:57 pm |
aferin sana CANLY
To STOP accusing Islam in things whom innocent of it
ok AEnigma, thats all right
we will see the othere what will post as i PM you
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32. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 04:04 pm |
As far as I can see, only ONE person is blaming Islam. Lets not turn this into a religious issue. It is a cultural issue and a horrible one.
And Canli I was referring to the extreme "circumcision/butchery" which occurs in Somalia. After they are "healed" girls are cut "open" with a knife on their wedding night and then cut open further everytime they have a child. They then have to be sewn up and have their legs tied together after each child, to "heal" up again.
But I guess it's worth it because apparently it increases the man's pleasure.
What a wonderful world...
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33. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 04:10 pm |
Quoting AEnigma III: As far as I can see, only ONE person is blaming Islam. Lets not turn this into a religious issue. It is a cultural issue and a horrible one.
And Canli I was referring to the extreme "circumcision/butchery" which occurs in Somalia. After they are "healed" girls are cut "open" with a knife on their wedding night and then cut open further everytime they have a child. They then have to be sewn up and have their legs tied together after each child, to "heal" up again.
But I guess it's worth it because apparently it increases the man's pleasure.
What a wonderful world...
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One word...
To the HELL with marriage !
Oh GOD!
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34. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 04:13 pm |
Quoting CANLI: One word...
To the HELL with marriage !
Oh GOD! |
Well actually that's 5!!! But I get your point...
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35. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 06:02 pm |
Quoting elham: This act has nothing to do with Islam, Islam is innocent of it, Because there are many Muslim countries do not act it.
Only Egypt and some neighboring countries,like somalia, , Sudan, Ethiopia, and Mali.
so please femme_fatal, avoid accusing Islam in all big and small |
Indeed, it is a cultural thing, not a religious. People from all religion do it, so lets not blame the religion but the people who do this!
But the problem is that is does NOT only occur in Egypt, Somalia, Sudan and some neighbouring countries! It happens in many more, mostly in secret, like Gambia, Mali, Sierra Leone, Malaysia, Indonesia, Jemen. It also happens in western Europe, the US, Canada etc. by immigrants who take their daughters on a 'nice' vacation....
The latest news about that Egyptian girl you can read here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6251426.stm
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36. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 06:10 pm |
Thanks Trudy
as i read in it
;The Grand Mufti and the head of the Coptic Church said female circumcision had no basis either in the Koran or in the Bible.
and as CANLI said not all egyption do that
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37. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 06:18 pm |
Quoting elham: Thanks Trudy
as i read in it
;The Grand Mufti and the head of the Coptic Church said female circumcision had no basis either in the Koran or in the Bible.
and as CANLI said not all egyption do that |
According to that bbc article in the post above 90% of the women in Egypt had this 'operation'. Isn't that an awful thought? Good for Egypt they banned it! And I hope offenders are punished quite hard!
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38. |
16 Aug 2007 Thu 06:58 pm |
Don't believe everything you read .
İ wonder how did they get that statistic tho ?
Asked every woman ?! Doubt it,unless they've got a good slap on their faces !
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