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Tips for Women Traveling in the Muslim World
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110.       portokal
2516 posts
 24 Dec 2007 Mon 02:27 am

i decided to reply in this topic because some of the things that have been told here are unfair toward the plesent experiences i had while in turkey.

actually, for me traveling to turkey was almost as a relief after all that i heard or seen in romania. keywords for those who seek employment (mostly in bucharest) is avoid turkish and italian small businesses. why? most of the times job is brought by/brings along at least a nice laying down with the 'boss'. but i question the moral integrity, professionalism and education of both these employers and the willing candidates. some of them have only high school degree, in most cases i doubt that they possess even this diploma.

most of the men i met in turkey were polite. in tourist resorts some give themselves a fair chance while seeing a woman alone. (which can become annoying, imposing taking attitudes while even on holiday.) yet, from what i have experienced, approaches are made in a moderate way, especially in the place they work or run businesses. usually employees are the ones to permit themselves 'having fun', but their approach rely very much on foreigner women's response to this. i suspect very few of them would permit themselves a bad reputation for the business (but just a wild guess here). others are studying the ground as to see if what they heard is true. than again, others are very respectful and kind. yet again, some are even helpful, chasing away rude 'intruders'.

who is being spoiled here, turkish youth or western women? i guess it is an interactive process. as these problems always are. the candid becomes candidate, possibly a corrupt later. (just as it was put in the harlot's progress by hogarth). and what are the causes of these have been redundantly discussed already in this forum.

IMO what is referred to in this discussions is practiced by a narrow part of the society to which, if it seems right, one can gang, if not, can withhold. if traveling alone, a woman must be aware that she might be approached and have to deal with this experience. and this is not an attack or insinuation or a betrayal on an 'exposed' or 'mistreated' womankind. it is a fact.

so in my opinion it is much more practical to be scared by the werewolves while having a journey in turkey.)) and to be prepared on how to act if alone and being approached. with a fair attitude, if desired, some eventual misconceptions of western women could be changed, also.

111.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 24 Dec 2007 Mon 03:02 am

I have just read the list of "tips".

Now I am afraid of myself as a Turkish guy. I should go away from this country.

-I wish femme_fatal won't put any comments about what I wrote. Seriously-

112.       catwoman
8933 posts
 24 Dec 2007 Mon 04:01 am

Quoting caliptrix:

I have just read the list of "tips".

Now I am afraid of myself as a Turkish guy. I should go away from this country.


I again don't think that Turkey is one of those very scary muslim countries. Turkey is much more western and civilized compared to any other muslim country, so I wouldn't be very scared to be alone in Turkey. At the same time, there are people who reported certain incidents so let's not pretend like nothing ever happens.

113.       lalisia
0 posts
 24 Dec 2007 Mon 05:27 am

Quoting GatewaytoTR:

Tips for Women Traveling in the Muslim World
By Rose Aslan, Freelance Writer



Traveling as a single woman has its advantages and benefits, but as always, there are drawbacks if one doesn’t go prepared. Various Muslim countries in the Middle East and nearby are still very conservative in their customs and traditions and foreign women should be careful to follow certain etiquette. This is not only to respect the local culture but more importantly to avoid harassment. I have heard way too many horror stories from solo women traveling in Muslim countries, so here are some tips to avoid getting into any embarrassing or even potentially dangerous situations.

1. Bring appropriate clothes

Apart from tourist resorts such as the Mediterranean Coast of Turkey, Red Sea resorts in Egypt or beach resorts of Bali, it is advisable to follow a more conservative dress code. Shorts and tank-tops are definitely a no-no, as are mini-skirts and tight clothes. While wearing a loose jacket and headscarf in places like Iran is mandatory for all female citizens and travelers, similar dress codes of a lesser scale should be observed in other Muslim countries even if there is no government imposed laws. In a country like Egypt, you will find most local women dress in clothes that cover everything except their face and hands, but you needn’t go this far. A loose long sleeve shirt (which is much more suitable for hot weather anyway) along with a flowing skirt and sandals is the best way to go. You will receive less stares and more respect from locals. Also, don’t forget to carry a headscarf at all times to wear when entering mosques and some Christian churches.

Just as an example of the importance of wearing the right clothes, once, in a famous tourist area of Cairo, I saw two Russian women sporting very short shorts and halter-tops. There must have been a hundred men staring at them in amazement, following after them as if in a parade. On the other hand, in my modest long sleeve shirt and skirt, the men hardly batted an eyelash at me.

2. Wear a wedding ring

This is a necessary step one must take to avoid men getting too close or proposing to you (before I learned this trick, I must have gotten at least twenty proposals of marriage from men in the various Middle Eastern countries I traveled to). Before setting off on your trip, conjure up a believable story about your ‘husband’. You can tell people something along the lines that your husband is waiting for you in the next town over and you are just visiting some good friends in the area. It’s always good to make sure people know that you are on your way to meeting your husband. Also, if you are traveling with a man who is not your husband, wear a wedding ring anyway and tell people you are married. Dating before marriage or even having friends of the opposite sex is looked down upon in Muslim societies.

3. Don’t get too close to men in the hotel or in the tourism business

A lot of these men are used to foreign women and like to think that they can get them to bed with a few smooth words. Of course western women are used to mixing with men in purely friendly conservations and innocent nights out, yet beware most men in Muslim countries don’t think this way. By accepting an invitation from a local man, you have just agreed to sleep with him (in his view). A simple dinner or walk by the beach may be a big deal for the man since women in his country would never think of doing this. He may even propose to you before nightfall if you are really unlucky.

4. Never make eye contact with men in the street

If you observe local women, you will not see one of them looking around at people or walking slowly, they always appear to walk briskly to an apparent goal. If you want to take a look at the surrounding scene, then sunglasses are a must so men cannot attempt to make eye contact. Eye contact is a serious move in Muslim countries, and making contact with a strange man is your invitation to some annoying comments or even worse, an unwanted stalker.

5. Set-up a makeshift door alarm in your hotel room

There are many ways to set up a fool-proof alarm in your hotel room. This is sometimes necessary for single females as hotel managers, clerks, or ordinary thieves might decide that they have the right to pay you a night visit since, after all, you look just like those foreign women in movies who sleep with any man they meet. So what you can do is push a desk or table against the door, and then place an object such as a glass on the edge of the table. If anyone attempts to open the door, they have trouble opening the door because of the table, and then the glass will fall, which will most probably scare away any potential intruder and wake you up.

6. Carry a pocket knife and pepper spray with you

It might sound a little drastic, but I always keep these in my pocket or shoulder bag at easy reach. Even though I have never had to use them, I have definitely made use of them to threaten possible potential attackers. If anyone attempts to get near you or hurt you, just pull out the pepper spray, hold your place and threaten to spray it in the person’s eyes. This has worked for me on several occasions.


7. Try to befriend local women

Local women, especially students, will often be fascinated by you, a strange looking foreigner and will try practicing their English on you. Take advantage of your female status and go into a world where most foreign men can never enter. It’s really fun to hang out with the ‘gals, you can learn a bit of the language, culture, and cooking too.

Most of all, if you learn to respect local customs and traditions, your trip could be immensely richer and more pleasant and you will return home with warm memories with not a complaint to be heard.




This is the most stupid thing I ever read....first of all it is stupid to travel alone...where is the fun then?
Second it is not fair to label Turkey like this, and to constrain only to turkish(or other muslims) guys!!!
The world is like it is today,unfortunately,and there is bad people everywhere,and questions like 'in what world are you living?' are also stupid because we are(hope so) all aware of it. Because those who are not are gonna pass very bad.
'Don't walk alone at night', how you can claim this only for Turkey?! I'm afraid walking on my town alone at night, and would be in any country, so I'm not doing that, because I already said there are fools everywhere, and we all should be careful.
Don't take me now as paranoid,but I did have a few bad situations in my country.What I can't say for Turkey...where I wore clothes and behave as I do at home,where I met some great guys, who are still my friends,and had a great time,and like nation they are soooo friendly, but also I don't claim that Turkey is perfect..like I said shi' happens everywhere.
And yes, in my country rate of violation is higher every day, last case from two days ago is where 3 guys rape 16 years old girl.
()and one more thing I don't agree with: "I guess it's really cos turkish girls are not generally having premarital sex, so turkish boys know they cant get it from them...therefore any western women that they come across are targeted cos they are 'easy'...whether they are ugly, fat, unattractive, whatever, i guess the turkish boy doesnt care, cos they're unlikely to get it with a turkish girl before marriage!"
bad, bad way to defend your country, so what if they can't find girl they will rape a foreign one!!??
and don't think that is true that the girls in Turkey are not having premarital sex, not on that what I heard and saw...nay I was surprised of behavior of young people...specially in Istanbul, where I was in some bar,(turns out homosexual bar), and was surprised of freedom of behavior on public place.

114.       girleegirl
5065 posts
 24 Dec 2007 Mon 08:23 am

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting catwoman:

I am officially inviting Aenigma, GatewaytoTR, Kaddersokak and Zbrct to my gang! This gang is by invitation only, so feel special!


I extend my gang invitation to Girleegirl, Elisabeth and Foamy! (out of fear of getting infiltrated by another gang )



Oh I am so honored
and you are such a smart girl!

115.       boradiz
121 posts
 24 Dec 2007 Mon 09:11 am

Please dont take this as an insult. I am really raising this for information.
Several times people are adressing some verses in Quran to show how badly women are treated in muslim countries. To be honest, This is not fair. I dont want to be easily labelled as an animal because of a writing 1400 years ago (although many believe it is holy writing ) and simply am born in a 90% muslim society.
My main question is how women are treated in Christianity. I am not asking the question "in western cultures today"
I am really asking the behavior in the religion itself. (e.g. I have not ever heard of a women priest)
As I told this is not a this is not a "you are also treating badly" question. I am really asking for plain information from people who has knowledge on the topic.
For those who dont want to be involved in this long discussion , they can send me a private message.
PS : I am not sure we have jewish members, but they are welcome to inform me on their religion on this aspect.

116.       Cacık
296 posts
 24 Dec 2007 Mon 10:41 am

Quoting thehandsom URL=http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap-crime-rapes:

countries rape stats [/URL]



Actually a huge majority of rapes in Turkey are never reported. I have seen many instances where a woman claims she is raped and then her husband leaves her ! So naturally stats in Turkey are low for rape because woman are "asking for it" here, there is not much sympathy for a woman who is raped, there is not much support even from her own home. The reason why stats are high in the US and UK is because they are reported, and in the most part justice occurs.

117.       zettea
160 posts
 24 Dec 2007 Mon 12:31 pm

Quoting thehandsom:

Quoting AEnigma III:

Quoting thehandsom:

virginity might be prized, but in the end, turkey's population is shifting to big cities for one reason or another and in cities, the relationships are not hugely different than an european city. In coming years the importance of virginity will be less than today. And today the virginity is less important then 20 years ago.



But until then...you are a mostly muslim country, whose religion teaches...:-

"Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will....” Qur'an 2:223.


I agree with you on that verse. There are worse verses as well :S
However islam in Turkey has always been different than the islam in countries like sauidi arabia, pakistan etc.
Islam in Turkey has always been a milder version of islam.



*coughs* There is only ONE ISLAM... same with all religion it's whether u practise it or not... and if u practise it, whether u practise it the right way as it is supposed to be practised...

drinking, casual sex etc are prohibited in islam so if any MUSLIM does it... we cant say he/she is following the MILDER ISLAM.. lol sounds funny anyway.. he/she is just not practising the religion properly.. Muslim by name only? not by actions?

118.       hanan
197 posts
 24 Dec 2007 Mon 12:56 pm

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting hanan:

friend i guess u make muslims men look like animals,i admit that any single woman(even muslim) should be careful but not that much i guess that is gonna be a mentaldisease , men are men any where,and any girl will be disturbed if she was alone even if she was not that beautiful.


Hahahahahah, first you get angry that men are described like animals and then you say that "men are men everywhere and women are scared to be alone everywhere" Don't you think you're contradicting yourself? You are showing a typical eastern mentality - trying to deny the rape culture you live in and then saying that such behavior is "normal" and "happens everywhere". lol

Turkey is definitely much btter then all the other muslim countries, although any western woman would notice certain differences, some of which were described in the original post.

At the same time, dear hanan, yes - men in that post ARE described as animals, which they ARE in most muslim countries. And let me break it to you that it is NOT NORMAL for a woman to be disturbed, even if she's alone! What kind of place do YOU live in?







friend ,i think you got me wrong

"Hahahahahah, first you get angry that men are described like animals and then you say that "men are men everywhere and women are scared to be alone everywhere" Don't you think you're contradicting yourself?"

i wasn't contradicting myself, i got angry because there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between animals and humans and NOBODY can call any other as An animal even if he acts like one, if it is so then i should call all foreign soldiers in irak as animals for all the stories that we hear, but it wont be fair coz they are not all the same.

and when i said "MEN ARE MEN" i have never meant they r animals, i meant those men that were described in the post are everywhere not only (IN TURKEY OR IN ANY OTHER MUSLIM COUNTRY) because What makes men chase women they have no intention of marrying?
is The same urge that makes dogs chase cars they have no intention of driving.
and as you said" Look, I never said that ALL of them behave like animals,I said that those who do the things described in the original post do!"

as much as i didnt mean that women are scared to be alone but they should be careful and as the old proverb say" care is better than sorry" ,and as LALISIA has said "'Don't walk alone at night', how you can claim this only for Turkey?! I'm afraid walking on my town alone at night, and would be in any country, so I'm not doing that, because I already said there are fools everywhere, and we all should be careful."

you said "You are showing a typical eastern mentality - trying to deny the rape culture you live in and then saying that such behavior is "normal" and "happens everywhere". lol".
RAPE CALTURE(as a term ): "is a widely used term within women's studies and radical feminism describing a culture in which rape and other sexual violence are common and in which prevalent attitudes, norms, practices, and media condone, normalize, excuse, or encourage sexualized violence. Within the paradigm, acts of "harmless" sexism are commonly employed to validate and rationalize normative misogynistic practices; for instance, sexist jokes may be told to foster disrespect for women and an accompanying disregard for their well-being, which ultimately make their rape and abuse seem acceptable. Examples of behaviors said to typify rape culture include victim blaming, trivializing prison rape, and sexual objectification."

and i see that the same rape culture you are talking about (that u say i live in) is available all over the world even in internet there are so many abusers, not only in the environment that according to you "i live in",
and according to same environment the i live in i dont look at this behavior as "NORMAL or HAPPENS EVERYWHERE" coz everything agianst nature,relagion,and humanity is not normal and is unacceptable for me or for anyother person.

according to so many essays about rape culture the number of victims is increasing every year.
and as an example of what you call by your own words("more western and civilized compared to any other muslim country" and I AM NOT MEANING TURKEY HERE I MEAN THE WESTERN AND ESPECIALLY CIVILIZED COUNTRIES THAT SO MANY THINK RHEY ARE RAPE CULTURE FREE).
here is a Statistic about forcible rape in USA in details and numbers.
http://www.mrsdutoit.com/index.php/essays/1576
which says that
1-Every minute in America there are 1.3 rapes of women.
2-178 women are raped each hour in America.
3-1,871 women in America are forcibly raped each day.

and you said "Turkey is definitely much btter then all the other muslim countries, although any western woman would notice certain differences, some of which were described in the original post."
i see turkey as much different than all other muslim country as much as i see iran is different or egypt, EVERY COUNTRY HAS IT'S BRIVACY AND SOUL.

"dear hanan" like you said ,r u sure?

"yes - men in that post ARE described as animals, which they ARE in most muslim countries"

"And let me break it to you that it is NOT NORMAL for a woman to be disturbed, even if she's alone! What kind of place do YOU live in? "

i can agree with this, and the place that i live in is a very small city near the capital of libya so that i know most of it's people, and this small city tought me so many things like,
never laugh at someone when you disagree with him(Hahahahahah),or type .
never call people animals or animals people coz that is gonna be crazy(i dont mean you i mean in general).
never prejudice me or my place or my religion for any reason we can disagree but without being aggrasive to each other's lives (i mean YOU).
and at last but not least i still respect every different point of view as much as it is still respect me and my openion without making jokes or fun or misundestanding.
.












119.       catwoman
8933 posts
 24 Dec 2007 Mon 05:51 pm

Quoting Cacık:

Actually a huge majority of rapes in Turkey are never reported. I have seen many instances where a woman claims she is raped and then her husband leaves her ! So naturally stats in Turkey are low for rape because woman are "asking for it" here, there is not much sympathy for a woman who is raped, there is not much support even from her own home. The reason why stats are high in the US and UK is because they are reported, and in the most part justice occurs.


Precisely!

120.       catwoman
8933 posts
 24 Dec 2007 Mon 06:11 pm

Quoting boradiz:

Please dont take this as an insult. I am really raising this for information.
Several times people are adressing some verses in Quran to show how badly women are treated in muslim countries. To be honest, This is not fair. I dont want to be easily labelled as an animal because of a writing 1400 years ago (although many believe it is holy writing ) and simply am born in a 90% muslim society.
My main question is how women are treated in Christianity. I am not asking the question "in western cultures today"
I am really asking the behavior in the religion itself. (e.g. I have not ever heard of a women priest)
As I told this is not a this is not a "you are also treating badly" question. I am really asking for plain information from people who has knowledge on the topic.
For those who dont want to be involved in this long discussion , they can send me a private message.
PS : I am not sure we have jewish members, but they are welcome to inform me on their religion on this aspect.


I am not sure if I understood your post correctly, but when it comes to individuals, I'd never label anybody anything simply because of where they are born. Individuals always ought to be considered on an individual basis... In a general sense however, it is accurate to say that there's much more abuse of women in muslim countries. There is surely discrimination against women going on in all religions, however, the countries that are predominantly christian, are developed right now and are not governed by religious laws, so they are doing better in terms of equality and justice.

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