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Gender Equality in Turkey
(76 Messages in 8 pages - View all)
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1.       doudi94
845 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 06:18 pm

In the 1930s, Turkey became one of the first countries in the world to give full political rights to women, including the right to elect (in 1930) and to be elected (in 1934), to every political office.

Article 10 of the Turkish Constitution bans any discrimination, state or private, on the grounds of sex. Turkey was one of the first countries to elect a female prime minister, Tansu Çiller in 1995. It is also the first country which had a woman as the President of its Constitutional Court, Tülay Tuğcu. In addition, Turkish Council of State, the court of last resort for administrative cases, also has a woman judge Sumru Çörtoğlu as its President.

Since 1985, Turkish women have the right to freely exercise abortions in the first 10 weeks of pregnancy and the right to contraceptive medicine paid for by the Social Security. This is in contrast with the policies of certain EU countries, such as Poland and Ireland, that ban abortion. Modifications to the Civil Code in 1926 gave the right to women to initiate and obtain a divorce; a right still not recognized in Malta,[13] an EU country.

Nevertheless, in Eastern and Southeastern Anatolia regions, older attitudes prevail among the local Kurdish, Turkish and Arab populations, where women still face domestic violence, forced marriages, and so-called honor killings. To combat this, the government and various other foundations are engaged in education campaigns in Southeastern Anatolia to improve the rate of literacy and education levels of women.[15]

Recently, critics have pointed out that Turkey has become a major market for foreign women who are coaxed and forcibly brought to the country by international mafia to work as sex slaves, especially in big and touristic cities.[16][17][18] Retired Col. Arif Doğan, leader of the illegal JITEM gendarmerie intelligence unit, who has been arrested in 2008 on charges of conspiracy against the state, in the frame of the investigations concerning the Ergenekon nationalist network, has also been accused of setting up prostitution rings in Yalova, in 1997-1998

 

 

2.       doudi94
845 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 06:20 pm

Over all its not bad!!!!Seems like Turkey ahs good gender equality

3.       sonunda
5004 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 06:21 pm

Doudi-you never cease to amaze me!!

4.       doudi94
845 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 06:25 pm

 

Quoting sonunda

Doudi-you never cease to amaze me!!

 

lol, dont give me any credit for it! I copy-pasted it from wikipedia but i just lke to read about this stuff i guess i shouldve posted the link {#lang_emotions_shy} here it is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Turkey

5.       sonunda
5004 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 06:47 pm

You´re still amazing! You have opinions about everything and you´re not afraid to express them. Keep it up!

6.       doudi94
845 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 06:51 pm

 

Quoting sonunda

You´re still amazing! You have opinions about everything and you´re not afraid to express them. Keep it up!

{#lang_emotions_shy}, thx so much sonunda {#lang_emotions_flowers}

and dont worry i will {#lang_emotions_wink}

 

7.       teaschip
3870 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 07:32 pm

 

Quoting doudi94

Over all its not bad!!!!Seems like Turkey ahs good gender equality

 

 Gender equality?  Really..{#lang_emotions_wtf}

8.       doudi94
845 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 07:35 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

Gender equality? Really..{#lang_emotions_wtf}

 

What then? tell me your opinion, what do YOU see? my opinion is judged on the article

9.       teaschip
3870 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 07:40 pm

 

Quoting doudi94

What then? tell me your opinion, what do YOU see? my opinion is judged on the article

 

 My opinion is that Turkey is well far from gender equality. Of course I´m comparing this to the West.  If compared to other Middle Eastern countries then maybe they are way ahead of the game.  There is the perception that women still should be barefoot and pregnant along with their rightful place in the home.  Maybe the younger generations ideals are less critical.

10.       doudi94
845 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 07:52 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

My opinion is that Turkey is well far from gender equality. Of course I´m comparing this to the West. If compared to other Middle Eastern countries then maybe they are way ahead of the game. There is the perception that women still should be barefoot and pregnant along with their rightful place in the home. Maybe the younger generations ideals are less critical.

 

Again witht that same style of thinking about the middle east! I really dont blame you for thinking lke this though its all the medias fault, you say maybe the younger generation thinks different, yeah, they do but nit only the younger generation, even before my grandmas time here in egypt, women were business owners and singers and actors and everything,a nd the same thing today, a woman can ahve any role she wants, and the "middle eastern"media is actually supporting that getting and making alot of arabic shows starring most of teh time rich ladies , the whole thought of "women running aroun pregnant on bare" has been abolished liek 100 years ago!!!! atleast in the more civilized places, but in the rural areas the sME THIGN IS HAPPENONG, but the country is doing alot of efforts to change that, and you hear about storues everyday in the newspaper about a birl from the country who decided she wanted to.....whatever, i dont kbnow if what youre saying is based on personal experiences or is that justan opinion, have you lived both hhere and there to compare? I dont know about youbut i have! Or does it just make you feel more comftrobale saying yeah, were the most civilized peopkle and compare yourself to other countries and laugh?!?!It isnt a womans goal to get married and have kids! She doesnt see her respectful place as home! Of course youre rtight there are some countries who are a little backward but i dont think turkey is one of them, but i cant judge since i have nt lived theer

11.       Trudy
7887 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 08:13 pm

 

Quoting doudi94

Again witht that same style of thinking about the middle east! I really dont blame you for thinking lke this though its all the medias fault, you say maybe the younger generation thinks different, yeah, they do but nit only the younger generation, even before my grandmas time here in egypt, women were business owners and singers and actors and everything,a nd the same thing today, a woman can ahve any role she wants, and the "middle eastern"media is actually supporting that getting and making alot of arabic shows starring most of teh time rich ladies , the whole thought of "women running aroun pregnant on bare" has been abolished liek 100 years ago!!!! atleast in the more civilized places, but in the rural areas the sME THIGN IS HAPPENONG, but the country is doing alot of efforts to change that, and you hear about storues everyday in the newspaper about a birl from the country who decided she wanted to.....whatever, i dont kbnow if what youre saying is based on personal experiences or is that justan opinion, have you lived both hhere and there to compare? I dont know about youbut i have! Or does it just make you feel more comftrobale saying yeah, were the most civilized peopkle and compare yourself to other countries and laugh?!?!It isnt a womans goal to get married and have kids! She doesnt see her respectful place as home! Of course youre rtight there are some countries who are a little backward but i dont think turkey is one of them, but i cant judge since i have nt lived theer

 

 Go for it, Doudi! Change ideas and acts. {#lang_emotions_flowers}

12.       teaschip
3870 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 08:13 pm

 

Quoting doudi94

Again witht that same style of thinking about the middle east! I really dont blame you for thinking lke this though its all the medias fault, you say maybe the younger generation thinks different, yeah, they do but nit only the younger generation, even before my grandmas time here in egypt, women were business owners and singers and actors and everything,a nd the same thing today, a woman can ahve any role she wants, and the "middle eastern"media is actually supporting that getting and making alot of arabic shows starring most of teh time rich ladies , the whole thought of "women running aroun pregnant on bare" has been abolished liek 100 years ago!!!! atleast in the more civilized places, but in the rural areas the sME THIGN IS HAPPENONG, but the country is doing alot of efforts to change that, and you hear about storues everyday in the newspaper about a birl from the country who decided she wanted to.....whatever, i dont kbnow if what youre saying is based on personal experiences or is that justan opinion, have you lived both hhere and there to compare? I dont know about youbut i have! Or does it just make you feel more comftrobale saying yeah, were the most civilized peopkle and compare yourself to other countries and laugh?!?!It isnt a womans goal to get married and have kids! She doesnt see her respectful place as home! Of course youre rtight there are some countries who are a little backward but i dont think turkey is one of them, but i cant judge since i have nt lived theer

 

I´m basing my opinions on experience of course. I never said Turkey hasn´t progressed.  And yes, it is the older generation as I specifically said in my previous post.  A great deal of women do not have educations, therefore it is very difficult to get work for them. Women get arrested for wearing short skirts how about honor killings shall I go on?  This has nothing to do with the media, I´m afraid.  If you really think the perception of women having their places in soceity is abolished..you have alot to still learn.   Many people in my own country the U.S. still feel this way as well.

 

Does it make me feel more comfortable laughing at other countries because I think were more civilized?  What kind of question is this.....and what gave you that opinion?  {#lang_emotions_you_crazy}

13.       doudi94
845 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 08:32 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

I´m basing my opinions on experience of course. I never said Turkey hasn´t progressed. And yes, it is the older generation as I specifically said in my previous post. A great deal of women do not have educations, therefore it is very difficult to get work for them. Women get arrested for wearing short skirts how about honor killings shall I go on? This has nothing to do with the media, I´m afraid. If you really think the perception of women having their places in soceity is abolished..you have alot to still learn. Many people in my own country the U.S. still feel this way as well.

 

Does it make me feel more comfortable laughing at other countries because I think were more civilized? What kind of question is this.....and what gave you that opinion? {#lang_emotions_you_crazy}

Of course a lot of women dont have the proper educationa nd i feel so bad about that, but i dont know why everybody always spcifies the middle east, but the media has a lot of things to do with this! Maybe not to you since youve actually seen and experienced, im just rerally mad that a positive side never arises always criticism from european and western countries, and the funny thing is they air these things here (we get almost all foreign channels) i mean i think its kinda weird when i talk to a girl from europe on the internet and she doesnt believe i ahev internet and that i acn speak english, dont you thik taht ahs somethignt o do with the media?Its just crazy really!And of course there are all those bad stuff you said but ive never heard abotu women getting arrested for wearing a short skirt at least not here, or else the theyll ahev to arrest half of cairo! lol

 

14.       zhang ziyi
205 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 08:43 pm

 

.

15.       doudi94
845 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 08:49 pm

 

Quoting zhang ziyi

A big faux pais!

It is a bit strange that you haven´t picked up certain habbits, rules of even say codex of commenting here.

When women from Middle East (such as Canli or doudi) give their opinions it would be ideal if you agree with them and don´t criticize their countries, cultures and religious actions.

Pointing out frustraiting facts equals to insulting and offending.

 

Im sorry!!btu she has the right to do whatever she wants, to agree or not agree with me is her opinion and i respect it!!!!And she can point out any facts she wants, were nto some kind of aliens="don´t criticize their countries, cultures and religious actions.

Pointing out frustraiting facts equals to insulting and offending." she can critociz e how ever she wants!!! Im sorry but i take what you say VERY insulting! And I think youre from china right? I can poin out  alot of things i want, and you might take it as insulting also? What do you see us? Crazy monsters who´s youd better agree with!!!!?????????iM VERY SORRY BuT I TOTalLY DIsagREE wITH YOU!! and what youre saying is exactly what i mean by"what people think of the middleast!!!"

16.       Trudy
7887 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 08:53 pm

 

Quoting doudi94

Im sorry!!btu she has the right to do whatever she wants, to agree or not agree with me is her opinion and i respect it!!!!And she can point out any facts she wants, were nto some kind of aliens="don´t criticize their countries, cultures and religious actions.

Pointing out frustraiting facts equals to insulting and offending." she can critociz e how ever she wants!!! Im sorry but i take what you say VERY insulting! And I think youre from china right? I can poin out  alot of things i want, and you might take it as insulting also? What do you see us? Crazy monsters who´s youd better agree with!!!!?????????iM VERY SORRY BuT I TOTalLY DIsagREE wITH YOU!! and what youre saying is exactly what i mean by"what people think of the middleast!!!"

 

 Doudi: {#lang_emotions_flowers}

17.       teaschip
3870 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 08:55 pm

 

Quoting doudi94

Of course a lot of women dont have the proper educationa nd i feel so bad about that, but i dont know why everybody always spcifies the middle east, but the media has a lot of things to do with this! Maybe not to you since youve actually seen and experienced, im just rerally mad that a positive side never arises always criticism from european and western countries, and the funny thing is they air these things here (we get almost all foreign channels) i mean i think its kinda weird when i talk to a girl from europe on the internet and she doesnt believe i ahev internet and that i acn speak english, dont you thik taht ahs somethignt o do with the media?Its just crazy really!And of course there are all those bad stuff you said but ive never heard abotu women getting arrested for wearing a short skirt at least not here, or else the theyll ahev to arrest half of cairo! lol

 

I agree the media happens to exploit things all the time.  I was mearly giving you an example regarding Turkey and it´s neighboring countries compared to the west regarding equalities.   You commented about why the middle east is always criticized.. just take a look at the criticism we receive all the time. Heck I can pull thousands of pictures with the following people rioting in the streets in the ME :Burn the Americans alive...etc...we are the most hated country right now.  The problem exists because you have a bunch of men running this world...that´s equalities for you.

 

Back to original comment you thought Turkey did a good job with equalties for women, I still think they have a long way to go. 

 

If you do a search at this site you will see articles posted by members of honour killings and here is the one about the short skirt. http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_27720_72

18.       doudi94
845 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 08:57 pm

 

Quoting zhang ziyi

A big faux pais!

It is a bit strange that you haven´t picked up certain habbits, rules of even say codex of commenting here.

When women from Middle East (such as Canli or doudi) give their opinions it would be ideal if you agree with them and don´t criticize their countries, cultures and religious actions.

Pointing out frustraiting facts equals to insulting and offending.

 

I just want you to imagine how i felt reading this! A VERY red face with the my head and ears and nostrilks blowing smoke(+ fire lol)!!!!! I really wish i couldve said more but i couldnt put it in to words.....

19.       teaschip
3870 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 08:58 pm

 

Quoting zhang ziyi

A big faux pais!

It is a bit strange that you haven´t picked up certain habbits, rules of even say codex of commenting here.

When women from Middle East (such as Canli or doudi) give their opinions it would be ideal if you agree with them and don´t criticize their countries, cultures and religious actions.

Pointing out frustraiting facts equals to insulting and offending.

 

 Thanks for reminding me of this.  {#lang_emotions_lol}

20.       teaschip
3870 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 08:59 pm

 

Quoting doudi94

I just want you to imagine how i felt reading this! A VERY red face with the my head and ears and nostrilks blowing smoke(+ fire lol)!!!!! I really wish i couldve said more but i couldnt put it in to words.....

 

 He meant this as sarcasm doudi, I assure you.{#lang_emotions_wink}

21.       doudi94
845 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 09:02 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

Thanks for reminding me of this. {#lang_emotions_lol}

 

So you agree with this?!?!

22.       doudi94
845 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 09:02 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

He meant this as sarcasm doudi, I assure you.{#lang_emotions_wink}

 

Didnt sound like it!

23.       doudi94
845 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 09:22 pm

Even if he did write it as sarcasm it was very insulting!!! So he better watch out or elsa"ll come running after him, barefoot, baring my uncut nails with a kitchen knife in my ahnd like the animals we arabs are" right?!?!

Now thats sarcasm

24.       lady in red
6947 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 09:38 pm

 

Quoting doudi94

Even if he did write it as sarcasm it was very insulting!!! So he better watch out or elsa"ll come running after him, barefoot, baring my uncut nails with a kitchen knife in my ahnd like the animals we are" right?!?!

Now tahst sarcasm

 

 Nope!  That sounds very scarey  {#lang_emotions_scared} Hope I never get on the wrong sıde of you!!  lol

25.       doudi94
845 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 09:43 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

Nope! That sounds very scarey {#lang_emotions_scared} Hope I never get on the wrong sıde of you!! lol

 

lol

no,dont worry LIR{#lang_emotions_wink} youll never get on MY wrong side{#lang_emotions_flowers}plus my nails are PURRRRRRRRRRFECT!!

 

26.       teaschip
3870 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 09:43 pm

 

Quoting doudi94

Even if he did write it as sarcasm it was very insulting!!! So he better watch out or elsa"ll come running after him, barefoot, baring my uncut nails with a kitchen knife in my ahnd like the animals we are" right?!?!

Now tahst sarcasm

 

 Now I know who to call if I get into any trouble and the plus side is penalities for a minor is less.{#lang_emotions_wink}

27.       zhang ziyi
205 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 09:49 pm

Haven´t I said it is insulting?

 

Quoting doudi94

Even if he did write it as sarcasm it was very insulting!!! So he better watch out or elsa"ll come running after him, barefoot, baring my uncut nails with a kitchen knife in my ahnd like the animals we are" right?!?!

Now tahst sarcasm

 

+100000 Bravo, Doudi, {#lang_emotions_flowers}

 

(Learn, Teaschip, you still can pick up the rules)

28.       doudi94
845 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 09:54 pm

 

Quoting zhang ziyi

Haven´t I said it is insulting?

 

 

+100000 Bravo, Doudi, {#lang_emotions_flowers}

 

(Learn, Teaschip, you still can pick up the rules)

 

{#lang_emotions_wtf}{#lang_emotions_rant} really i sware you leave me speechless

tsk,tsk

i hope thast sarcasm or else enta ma3andeksh dam

and get somebody who speaks arabic to tell yuo what that means

OOOFF!!

Its people like you who keep the world backwards!

 

29.       teaschip
3870 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 10:06 pm

 

Quoting doudi94

{#lang_emotions_wtf}{#lang_emotions_rant} really i sware you leave me speechless

tsk,tsk

i hope thast sarcasm or else enta ma3andeksh dam

and get somebody who speaks arabic to tell yuo what that means

OOOFF!!

Its people like you who keep the world backwards!

 

Just ask ZZ where those gymnasts birth certificates disappeared to?{#lang_emotions_bigsmile}

 

30.       zhang ziyi
205 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 10:45 pm

 

Quoting doudi94

{#lang_emotions_wtf}{#lang_emotions_rant} really i sware you leave me speechless

tsk,tsk

 enta ma3andeksh dam

Its people like you who keep the world backwards!

Bravo! Well said! {#lang_emotions_flowers}

Your comments pull me out of my backwardness!

 

 

31.       lady in red
6947 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 10:56 pm

 

Quoting doudi94

{#lang_emotions_wtf}{#lang_emotions_rant} really i sware you leave me speechless

tsk,tsk

 

 

And I get the feeling that not many people can do that doudi!!

 

{#lang_emotions_razz} 

32.       doudi94
845 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 11:52 pm

 

Quoting zhang ziyi

Bravo! Well said! {#lang_emotions_flowers}

Your comments pull me out of my backwardness!

 

Again with your unbearable sarcasm?

33.       doudi94
845 posts
 27 Aug 2008 Wed 11:53 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

Quoting doudi94

{#lang_emotions_wtf}{#lang_emotions_rant} really i sware you leave me speechless

tsk,tsk

 

 

And I get the feeling that not many people can do that doudi!!

 

{#lang_emotions_razz}

If you only knew!!!!You have no idea how right you are {#lang_emotions_satisfied_nod}

 

34.       doudi94
845 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 12:44 am

Back to our topic about gender equality in Turkey:

 

With the foundation of the Republic in 1923, Turkey has experienced rapid social and political transformation. Ensuring the equality between men and women; state support for women in entry into the public sphere; restructuring the legal system; efforts to transform the social traditions and values which were inherently discriminatory are some of the main axis of this transformation. However, with respect to advancement of women and gender equality in the country, some problems still exist in practice. In Turkey, women do not confront with any legal obstacles in exercising fundamental human rights such as education, political rights, employment. Turkish legislation guarantees equality between men and women. The amendments in the Constitution constitute the most important part of the reforms directed towards women. Nonetheless Turkey had placed explicitly the equality principle between men and women in her constitution formerly, by the addition of a provision to Article 10 of the Constitution, State has the responsibility to take necessary measures to provide women equal rights and opportunities with men. In this way, Turkey has become one of the very few countries that has a similar provision in their legal system. However, despite significant legal improvement, it is not possible to say that gender equality has been reflected completely in practice in accordance with these improvements. In this case, a strong patriarchal culture, gender discriminatory traditions and practices have roles. In Turkey 25 % of the population (13 million) are women in the age range of 15-49. Naturally, with such a huge population of women, it is unavoidable that women’s problems are reflected to the social life of the country. Turkey, by increasing compulsory education to 8 years in 1997, has taken a significant step to get over the problems in education that women are faced with; targeted to make schooling rate reach 100 % for girls and boys until 2010. In this framework, many projects have been initiated.

Another problematic area, employment of women is still among the basic areas of problem. Turkey has taken this issue under legal and constitutional guarantee by incorporating provisions regarding equal participation of women and men in working life both into its Constitution and into the Labour Act

With the New Labour Act, effective as of 2003, it is resolved that no discrimination with any reason in terms of basic human rights, including sex is permissible in the relationship between the employer and employee. In this context, the Law includes provisions ruling the employer must not make any discrimination, either directly or indirectly, against an employee in the conclusion, conditions, execution and termination of her employment contract due to the employee’s sex or maternity, differential remuneration for similar jobs or for work of equal value is not permissible and sex, marital status, family responsibilities, pregnancy and confinement shall not constitute a valid reason for termination of the contract. Besides, provisions regarding sexual harassment in the workplace and part time work are also included in the Law for the first time. Provisions in the State Personnel Law and Vocational Education Act on access to work, promotion, training and work conditions are also regulated on the basis of non-discrimination principle. In parallel with these arrangements, the Prime Ministry Circular related to “Acting in Accordance with the Principle of Equality in Employee Recruitment” has been issued. With the mentioned Circular, governmental institutions have been instructed on the subject of no discrimination shall be made on the basis of gender, except for service requirements, during staff recruitment. Although the equality between women and men is ensured legally, women’s labour force participation rate was only 24.8% in 2007, while this rate was 71.3% for men. Additionally, in the context of globalization, unemployment of women during the last two decades has shifted to unregistered economy. Agriculture is still the sector that employs women most. Even this sector causes women remain as unpaid family workers, it motivates women to socialize and participate in decisions. The basic reason of working women to end their work life after a short period and/or not to be able to show their potential for advance in their career is the problem for women to reconcile their work and home life. The number of day care centres in the country is still insufficient in spite of all efforts.

 

 

http://www.wikigender.org/wiki/index.php?title=Gender_Equality_in_Turkey

35.       alameda
3499 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 12:50 am

 

Quoting teaschip

I´m basing my opinions on experience of course. I never said Turkey hasn´t progressed.  And yes, it is the older generation as I specifically said in my previous post.  A great deal of women do not have educations, therefore it is very difficult to get work for them. Women get arrested for wearing short skirts how about honor killings shall I go on?  This has nothing to do with the media, I´m afraid.  If you really think the perception of women having their places in soceity is abolished..you have alot to still learn.   Many people in my own country the U.S. still feel this way as well.

 

Does it make me feel more comfortable laughing at other countries because I think were more civilized?  What kind of question is this.....and what gave you that opinion?  {#lang_emotions_you_crazy}

 

 And tell us please, how long did you live in Turkia or Egypt? Have you lived in the South West of the US? When was the last time you were in Istanbul, or Ankara...or even anyplace in Turkia?

36.       doudi94
845 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 01:22 am

 

Quoting zhang ziyi

A big faux pais!

It is a bit strange that you haven´t picked up certain habbits, rules of even say codex of commenting here.

When women from Middle East (such as Canli or doudi) give their opinions it would be ideal if you agree with them and don´t criticize their countries, cultures and religious actions.

Pointing out frustraiting facts equals to insulting and offending.

 

Wait a sec, i ddint notice this earlier, what do you mean by "frustrating facts???"

37.       armegon
1872 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 01:40 am

 

Quoting teaschip

 Women get arrested for wearing short skirts  

 

 Vay canına!! im surprised as a Turkish {#lang_emotions_smile} 

biraz destekli atalım lütfen...

38.       lady in red
6947 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 01:52 am

 

Quoting armegon

 Vay canına!! im surprised as a Turkish {#lang_emotions_smile} 

biraz destekli atalım lütfen...

 

Not my post but I remember there was something posted a month or so ago about a certain area of Istanbul where this (being arrested for wearing a mini-skirt) would still happen today.  I am sorry I can´t remember where/when exactly this was posted or the name of the area.

39.       armegon
1872 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 01:57 am

 

Quoting lady in red

Not my post but I remember there was something posted a month or so ago about a certain area of Istanbul where this (being arrested for wearing a mini-skirt) would still happen today.  I am sorry I can´t remember where/when exactly this was posted or the name of the area.

 

 Arrested by police?? and judged by law court?? its impossible, maybe you refering to some parts of İstanbul where bigots are living, harressed that woman

40.       lady in red
6947 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 02:00 am

 

Quoting armegon

 Arrested by police?? and judged by law court?? its impossible, you refering to some parts of İstanbul where bigots are living...

 

 I said - I don´t know exactly - I´ll see if I can find the thread .  I just mentioned it because that was maybe where Teaship got this information from.

41.       armegon
1872 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 02:04 am

 

Quoting lady in red

 I said - I don´t know exactly - I´ll see if I can find the thread .  I just mentioned it because that was maybe where Teaship got this information from.

 

Thats a good generalisation anyway that "women get arrested because of wearing mini-skirt", how many? only one (i also doubt that)

42.       lady in red
6947 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 02:17 am

Quoting lady in red

 I said - I don´t know exactly - I´ll see if I can find the thread .  I just mentioned it because that was maybe where Teaship got this information from.

 

 

Quoting armegon

Thats a good generalisation anyway that "women get arrested because of wearing mini-skirt", how many? only one (i also doubt that)

 

I give up looking!!  It could have been anywhere - the way threads go off topic on here it could have been on a Turkish Cookery thread!!  A Turkish friend did tell me about the area I am thinking of though - but its late and I´m tired - I´ll ask him tomorrow and get back to you

BTW - there was that incident of the woman on the Galata Bridge arrested for wearing a low cut top!!! (also mentioned on a thread somewhere here)

 

Anyway I´ll say goodnight for now - iyi geceler

43.       armegon
1872 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 02:47 am

 dont waste ur time, i remembered the Galata bridge incident, she is not arrested for wearing low cut top, she is arrested because of indecent exposure, and people complained about this, also she introduced herself as police .  Personally i think this has not to be a problem but during the government of AKP, we begin to hear news like this...

Quoting lady in red

Quoting lady in red

 I said - I don´t know exactly - I´ll see if I can find the thread .  I just mentioned it because that was maybe where Teaship got this information from.

 

I give up looking!!  It could have been anywhere - the way threads go off topic on here it could have been on a Turkish Cookery thread!!  A Turkish friend did tell me about the area I am thinking of though - but its late and I´m tired - I´ll ask him tomorrow and get back to you

BTW - there was that incident of the woman on the Galata Bridge arrested for wearing a low cut top!!! (also mentioned on a thread somewhere here)

 

Anyway I´ll say goodnight for now - iyi geceler

 

 

44.       CANLI
5084 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 02:47 am

 

Quoting zhang ziyi

A big faux pais!

It is a bit strange that you haven´t picked up certain habbits, rules of even say codex of commenting here.

When women from Middle East (such as Canli or doudi) give their opinions it would be ideal if you agree with them and don´t criticize their countries, cultures and religious actions.

Pointing out frustraiting facts equals to insulting and offending.

 

 Awwwww,i didnt know you have missed me that much ZZ {#lang_emotions_shy}

 

İ agree with you ´´mmm,its a first {#lang_emotions_confused},must because i have felt the LOVE ´´lol

Yes,its better if you agree with us,so you save yourself long debats and then you find out that we are right

For 2 reasons actually,first because we are women,and women always right...but you already knew that didnt you ?! lol

Second,because....well...we are right

 

But sure you can criticize if you like,anytime too...but that does mean you are right  

45.       CANLI
5084 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 02:51 am

 

Quoting zhang ziyi

 

 

(Learn, Teaschip, )

 

 Now,i wish you have learnt something yourself

 

mmmm,i wonder,if there were few of us here on TLC not just me and doudi...what would you do ?!

And there are about 30,or 35 million more ´Egyptian women´ here in Egypt...scary huh ?!{#lang_emotions_scared}lol

 

lollllll omg its AMAZİNG how you can hate ´we can make it lighter and say dislike if you wish ´ someone or some people you dont even know !

 

Ps: sry guys for interrupting i just wanted to salute zz back,zz wasnt around for a while,STİLL seems zz never forgot me {#lang_emotions_cool} 

46.       doudi94
845 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 02:56 am

I think i found teh article

Could there be Islamic police in Turkey - that would bring them in line with other Arab and Islamic states where Islamic police are sent out to monitor women´s dress. This woman was given a suspended prison sentence - yet the fisherman who were supposed to have objected are no where to be seen and the regulars think the whole thing is nonsense.

About 70 Turkish women have protested in Istanbul after a court found a woman guilty of exhibitionism for fishing in what was termed "improper clothing".

The protesters marched across the iconic Galata Bridge chanting slogans.

"It´s not exhibitionism, it´s male abuse!" and "State, take your hands off my body!" they cried.

Rows of bemused fishermen watched as they passed - many were wearing strappy tops, flimsy sun-dresses with plunging necklines, or shorts.

The incident they were protesting about occurred last summer, on the same bridge, when men complained that the woman´s clothing was "improper."

Turkish newspapers quote court documents as saying she was wearing a lightweight outfit like a nightdress, which blew up in the wind.

Last week a judge upheld the men´s complaints.

 

 

http://islamizationwatch.blogspot.com/2008/07/turkish-women-attack-islamic-clothing.html

thats the rest of it

another link

http://islamizationwatch.blogspot.com/2008/07/turkish-women-attack-islamic-clothing.html

47.       doudi94
845 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 03:11 am

heres another side of teh story, just to be fair:

Today, in Turkey, we take pride in the higher percentage and the qualifications of our women in science, in the business sector and, as our theme suggests, in engineering as compared to other countries. Currently, the rate of women taking university staff positions is 36 percent and the rate of women professors is 25 percent. A total of 31 percent of all architects, 29 percent of all doctors and surgeons and 26 percent of all lawyers are women. The Scientific and Technical Research Council of Turkey, for example, which is the leading institution to develop scientific and technological policies in Turkey is headed by a distinguished lady.

  None of these could be possible without the “women´s revolution” which I mentioned earlier. If we consider the centuries-long discrimination, what Turkish women could achieve in just 85 years of the Republic, in my opinion,  is a clear sign that they are as much if not more capable than men in any area we can name. I am not saying this as a compliment but because I truly believe in it.

  In fact, it is because of this strong conviction that, in 1993 before I was elected as president, I wholeheartedly wanted to hand over my place as head of my political party, to a lady, who later became the first woman prime minister of Turkey.  Turkey is also one of the first countries which had a woman as president of its Constitutional Court.

  But, despite all these achievements, we must also admit that there is still a long way to go to fill the huge gap in terms of gender equality. There are still women who suffer from violence, poverty and discrimination. The literacy rate for example, has still not reached the desired level. There is still also a need to change the mindset on this issue.

48.       ceylanOANA
45 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 03:20 am

hello everybody,

 

I lived here long enough to tell you that in Mersin, even my mother in law when she was young could wear mini skirt....

n her mom never wore a veil...so..

i think women have problems of gender discrimination in Eastern parts of Turkey...

or in non educated families...

Anyway, it is also true that here women have to ask permission of their fathers, brothers or husbands sometimes to do different things, which are normal to do without even telling in European countries..

for example, give private lessons to a man...if u are a teacher...i can tell u that 99 percent of men will say a big NO

 

49.       doudi94
845 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 04:12 am

 

Quoting ceylanOANA

hello everybody,

 

I lived here long enough to tell you that in Mersin, even my mother in law when she was young could wear mini skirt....

n her mom never wore a veil...so..

i think women have problems of gender discrimination in Eastern parts of Turkey...

or in non educated families...

Anyway, it is also true that here women have to ask permission of their fathers, brothers or husbands sometimes to do different things, which are normal to do without even telling in European countries..

for example, give private lessons to a man...if u are a teacher...i can tell u that 99 percent of men will say a big NO

This is just the kind of stuff i wa s talkin about!!thank you ceylan, really!!!, Did  anybidy ever see the old egyptian movies?u know "black and white?" People could wear whatever they wanted, and everybody ahs their own choice!!!! I wear whatever i want, because ts my choice, my mom wears a veil, but her mom doesnt, my grandma goes and changes her hair color every month, and shes always at teh koiffeur lol

so U cant ay anything baout illeterate or unfree women in middle eastern countries, like i was shocked to see one post on the  Yahoo answers thing, a girl said she was going on vacation to egypt and wondered if she wore a short skirt if shed get arrested (she also wondered what would happen to her if she stole a mummy!) because she heard a lot of news about ppl getting arrested in islamic countries! Again the media only transmits what it wants too, and i bet you there area million others like her too!!But that teacher thing is weird, ive never seen anything like it before, but maybe in most countries"middle eastern" the rural areas are un educated and still live backwards but a lot of people are changing that, like that 19-year old shpard yuo posted about once, and that lady that sold a cow to get a PC, we all ahve to start somewhere!!And these ppla re only examples, i bet there are a millipn others too, i like it when is ee both sides, both perspecives, not only a person who says i think this and i think that and thats the only thing thats right and im right and youre wrong!!!!! PLZ ppl!!!!

 

50.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 08:56 am

Quote: Doudi94

Again the media only transmits what it wants too,

Exactly right!  They want to make money and they want to manipulate the masses.  Sensationalism is often their intention.  Ownership of the publication is also a factor, because that can determine the political stance of a newspaper for example. This is why, many months ago, I posed the questions here:

 

"Which  Turkish newspapers are reputable? Whiat is the political stance of some of the newspapers? " 

 

As a foreigner I wanted to read both sides of the Turkish news.

 

Then there are the many documentaries, hours of footage condensed into 30 or 60 minutes.  I´d be more interested in what´s on the cutting room floor, not what I´m being fed.

 

Individuals can and do seek redress in the law courts, often with success.  Unfortunately this doesn´t appear to be an option for sectors of society who receive poor treatment at the hands of the press/media.  In England there are sometimes retractions printed in newspapers as a result of a complaint, although they almost never make the front page, but a few centimetres somewhere in the middle pages.  There are also TV watchdogs and people can lodge complaints, the results of which are broadcast (in the we hours often).  I guess it´s a start.

 

Of course there is good practice out there but sensationalism seems to be prevalent (I´m not only referring to Turkey btw).

 

 

 

 

51.       teaschip
3870 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 03:52 pm

 

Quoting alameda

 And tell us please, how long did you live in Turkia or Egypt? Have you lived in the South West of the US? When was the last time you were in Istanbul, or Ankara...or even anyplace in Turkia?

 

 You really think I´m going to tell YOU my personal information.{#lang_emotions_you_crazy} It´s frankly none of business whether I have lived in Turkey or any other part of the world.  I don´t need to justify to you what my experience has been.. You are almost comical alamada since you would like to believe you are a subject expert on EVERYTHING.  But we know different.{#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

52.       girleegirl
5065 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 04:23 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

 You really think I´m going to tell YOU my personal information.{#lang_emotions_you_crazy} It´s frankly none of business whether I have lived in Turkey or any other part of the world.  I don´t need to justify to you what my experience has been.. You are almost comical alamada since you would like to believe you are a subject expert on EVERYTHING.  But we know different.{#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

 

 It´s especially funny given that fact that alameda refuses to answer any questions put to her about her experience or her expertise!   Hell, she didn´t even want anyone to know she was a chick for the longest time!!!  {#lang_emotions_laugh_at}

53.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 06:03 pm

 

Quoting girleegirl

 It´s especially funny given that fact that alameda refuses to answer any questions put to her about her experience or her expertise!   Hell, she didn´t even want anyone to know she was a chick for the longest time!!!  {#lang_emotions_laugh_at}

 

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_(Saturday_Night_Live)

 

I believe I revealed this before....when will you start listening to me GG!!

54.       doudi94
845 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 06:27 pm

 

Quoting teaschip

You really think I´m going to tell YOU my personal information.{#lang_emotions_you_crazy} It´s frankly none of business whether I have lived in Turkey or any other part of the world. I don´t need to justify to you what my experience has been.. You are almost comical alamada since you would like to believe you are a subject expert on EVERYTHING. But we know different.{#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

 

thats kinda mean........

55.       lady in red
6947 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 06:34 pm

 

Quoting doudi94

thats kinda mean........

 

 .......but kinda true.....

56.       alameda
3499 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 07:06 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 .......but kinda true.....

 

 Ummm....excuse me? Are you not supposed to be a moderator? Instead, you seem more like an instigator.

 

For what it´s worth, I asked teaschip about her experience because she claimed it as her source when involved in a discussion regarding Gender Equality in Turkey. That discussion evolved into the rights of women in the ME. She was involved in a discussion with a woman from the ME. It is relevant in that case.

 

In particular the question was asked by doudi94

 

"i dont kbnow if what youre saying is based on personal experiences or is that justan opinion, have you lived both hhere and there to compare? I dont know about youbut i have!"

 

To which teaschip replied:

 

"I´m basing my opinions on experience of course."

 

Based on reading teaschip´s story posted here, I am curious, what new experience she has aquired.

 

As for my information sources, I do give links to them.  As for my experience, I have decades of serious personal and business involvement with both cultures. If I do not care to publicly broadcast my gender, unlike some, it is my right to privacy. It does not change the facts I refer to.

 

Now, I have been personally insulted numerous times by teaschip and girleegirl. I have never personally insulted them. So, moderator, what´s up? Are you picking and choosing here?

57.       teaschip
3870 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 07:47 pm

 

Quoting alameda

 Ummm....excuse me? Are you not supposed to be a moderator? Instead, you seem more like an instigator.

 

For what it´s worth, I asked teaschip about her experience because she claimed it as her source when involved in a discussion regarding Gender Equality in Turkey. That discussion evolved into the rights of women in the ME. She was involved in a discussion with a woman from the ME. It is relevant in that case.

 

In particular the question was asked by doudi94

 

"i dont kbnow if what youre saying is based on personal experiences or is that justan opinion, have you lived both hhere and there to compare? I dont know about youbut i have!"

 

To which teaschip replied:

 

"I´m basing my opinions on experience of course."

 

Based on reading teaschip´s story posted here, I am curious, what new experience she has aquired.

 

As for my information sources, I do give links to them.  As for my experience, I have decades of serious personal and business involvement with both cultures. If I do not care to publicly broadcast my gender, unlike some, it is my right to privacy. It does not change the facts I refer to.

 

Now, I have been personally insulted numerous times by teaschip and girleegirl. I have never personally insulted them. So, moderator, what´s up? Are you picking and choosing here?

 

You are so full of CRAP!  Let´s see who the instigator is...instead of adding anything meaningful to this post, you question my experience in a cunning manner, so don´t deny it.   You need to really take a good look at yourself, but somehow I doubt you ever will.  Why does it always appear that it is YOU who is always in some kind of arguement with other members here. 

Since you state I have insulted you numerous times which is a LIE...consider this post an insult which you well deserve.

 

Quit playing the innocent victim card Alamada..you make me sick.{#lang_emotions_puking}  Oh and you wanted resources.. well you know where you can get your resources.....I´ll leave it at that.

 

58.       lady in red
6947 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 07:55 pm

 

Quoting alameda

 Ummm....excuse me? Are you not supposed to be a moderator? Instead, you seem more like an instigator. 

 

My comment was not insulting, a personal attack or backing anyone up.  My comment ´...but kinda true...´  was an answer to doudi´s ´that´s kinda mean...´ and was made because I was agreeing that it is none of your business where Teaschip has lived and she doesn´t have to justify her experience and you do seem to think you are an expert on everything. Perhaps I should have just added ´+1´ to teaschip´s post 

 

Being a moderator doesn´t mean I am not allowed to post my opinion - although mostly I hold back on what I´´d really like to say

 

´Views of moderators and administrators do not represent the views of the site´

59.       Trudy
7887 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 10:01 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

Quoting alameda

 Ummm....excuse me? Are you not supposed to be a moderator? Instead, you seem more like an instigator. 

 

My comment was not insulting, a personal attack or backing anyone up.  My comment ´...but kinda true...´  was an answer to doudi´s ´that´s kinda mean...´ and was made because I was agreeing that it is none of your business where Teaschip has lived and she doesn´t have to justify her experience and you do seem to think you are an expert on everything. Perhaps I should have just added ´+1´ to teaschip´s post 

 

Being a moderator doesn´t mean I am not allowed to post my opinion - although mostly I hold back on what I´´d really like to say

 

´Views of moderators and administrators do not represent the views of the site´

 

 No comment, just: + 10000000!!!

60.       vineyards
1954 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 11:44 pm

I don´t know how relevant this is but we can´t talk about gender equality here in TC either. Remember that all the active mods are females.  One might claim that sex has never been a factor with regard to moderator selections. Others may add males were also given chances in the past too. If your view is one of a sexist regardless of what kind, you will inevitably become irritated by the fact that you are a member of a community run by females. You see the world the way you want to see it.

 

Microsoft introduced us to a world of icons that put those once not-so-easy-to-master tasks just a click away.   Sadly, in real life too, we often resort to those magical icons e.g. The West, The East, Islam, Al Qaeda and terror. Use one of these before any concept and it instantly becomes crystal clear.  The East means no gender equality, oppression, malice, igorance and yes terrorism. Anything that is West by definition is probably too early for the East and is unexpected...

 

Last summer, I listened to a Greek guy in Athens who put his hand on my shoulder to give me an authoritative description of my country with such seriousness that almost compelled to question my own knowledge about it. That guy had not even been to Turkey. In fact, he didn´t have to; he had all the necessary stereotypes.

 

We are living in a world which is divided into camps. Everyone attempts to understand one another in their own cultural terms.

 

Today, the problem of women is a universal one. It is not specific to a particular religion or culture. According to the Bible, the order of the creatures is as follows : Holy trinity, angels, males, females, animals, plants and chaos. The West still believes in this book. All the institutions are still either directly or indirectly based on or influenced by it. When a child is born, when people are getting married they still follow the rules of a system that turns around a male God, a male prophet, male pontiffs and male rulers. While this may seem insignificant to you this is actually the reason why the US has still never had a female President. The religion has penetrated into society so deeply that it is not possible to get around it. Religions tend to demonize other faith systems; again the hatred it aroused among people is still so alive.

 

It goes without saying whatever I said about the Christian faith is also true for Islam.

 

61.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 11:58 pm

Love your post Vineyards! 

62.       libralady
5152 posts
 28 Aug 2008 Thu 11:58 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

I don´t know how relevant this is but we can´t talk about gender equality here in TC either. Remember that all the active mods are females.  One might claim that sex has never been a factor with regard to moderator selections. Others may add males mods were also given chances in the past too. If your view is one of a sexist regardless of what kind, you will inevitably become irritated by the fact that you are a member of a community run by females. You see the world the way you want to see it.

 

cut

 

 Uhmm right you are!  the gender mix with mods, in fact the whole site is a little female orientated!  Is that anything to do the with scientific "fact" that women use more words in conversation than men?  OK, Ok I am dodging the knives {#lang_emotions_lol}

63.       vineyards
1954 posts
 29 Aug 2008 Fri 12:10 am

Yes we have Virginia Woolf don´t we?

64.       zhang ziyi
205 posts
 29 Aug 2008 Fri 01:31 am

 

Quoting vineyards

Yes we have Virginia Woolf don´t we?

 

Thank you. I will not contribute to this site anymore. I am thinking of contributing to another Turkish language forum at http://29984.rapidforum.com/ from now on...

 

I will remain a passive user of this site. I will not post anymore. I am also resigning as a mod.

 

http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_29320

65.       girleegirl
5065 posts
 29 Aug 2008 Fri 02:07 am

It´s called changing your mind zhang.  People do it all the time.

66.       Norae
27 posts
 29 Aug 2008 Fri 04:40 am

Quoting Vineyards:

We are living in a world which is divided into camps. Everyone attempts to understand one another in their own cultural terms.

 

Today, the problem of women is a universal one. It is not specific to a particular religion or culture. According to the Bible, the order of the creatures is as follows : Holy trinity, angels, males, females, animals, plants and chaos. The West still believes in this book. All the institutions are still either directly or indirectly based or influenced by it. When a child is born, when people are getting married they still follow the rules of a system that turns around a male God, a male prophet, male pontiffs and male rulers. While this may seem insignificant to you this is actually the reason why the US has still never had a female President. The religion has penetrated into society so deeply that it is not possible to get around it. Religions tend to demonize other faith systems; again the hatred it aroused among people is still so alive.

 

It goes without saying whatever I said about the Christian faith is also true for Islam.

 

With that you hit the nail on the head. So very very true.

67.       vineyards
1954 posts
 29 Aug 2008 Fri 06:39 am

 

Quoting zhang ziyi

Thank you. I will not contribute to this site anymore. I am thinking of contributing to another Turkish language forum at http://29984.rapidforum.com/ from now on...

 

I will remain a passive user of this site. I will not post anymore. I am also resigning as a mod.

 

http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_29320

 

Aha,do I owe you anything for this extra publicity?

 

 

68.       bydand
755 posts
 29 Aug 2008 Fri 11:05 pm

 

Quoting libralady

 Uhmm right you are!  the gender mix with mods, in fact the whole site is a little female orientated!  Is that anything to do the with scientific "fact" that women use more words in conversation than men?  OK, Ok I am dodging the knives {#lang_emotions_lol}

 

 {#lang_emotions_wtf} Good heavens! I almost choked on my malt when I read this post by LL. TC female oriented indeed{#lang_emotions_noway}  Catwoman would never stand for it{#lang_emotions_confused}

69.       gencturk
326 posts
 30 Aug 2008 Sat 01:22 am

Güler Sabancı Turkey´s most powerful woman again

Güler Sabancı

Sabancı Holding Chairman Güler Sabancı has been named Turkey´s most powerful woman for the third time in a row on the Forbes 2008 list of the top 100 women based on career, economic impact and media coverage.

70.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 30 Aug 2008 Sat 02:40 am

Women Pushing for Increased Representation in Turkey

Seventy years ago, Turkey was one of the first countries to give women the vote. Seven decades later, there is only one woman in Turkey´s 20-member parliament. From Istanbul, Dorian Jones reports on a new initiative to build women´s political power.

Didem Engin is not your typical Turkish politician. For one thing Engin is only 30 years old. She is also a woman.

Engin says the days of women having only five percent of the seats in parliament have to end.

"Once we are going to have more and more women in parliament, I believe the rights of the women have to be much more discussed in the parliament," siad Engin.

Kader, a non-partisan group, wants to put more women in parliament. Nuket Sirman is one of the founders of Kader. She says the members of the organization came up with what they think is a winning slogan to promote their cause.

"We took out mustaches and stuck them on our faces, and the slogan was, is a mustache necessary, in other words do you have to be a man to go into parliament," said Sirman.

Kader took the idea a step further. The group persuaded many of Turkey´s most powerful women, including pop stars and business leaders, to don mustaches, to highlight the male domination of parliament. The media ran with the story. Soon Turks were seeing famous women wearing mustaches on television and in newspapers and magazines. Sirman says the publicity campaign has struck a chord.

"For the first time in the elections you had huge numbers of women, going to political parties and asking to become candidates," said Sirman. "Of course this is very very difficult because most political parties demand enormous sums of money from candidates and, of course, women are not the richest people in this country. So that is a very big problem."

And, it is not the only problem. All Turkish party leaders are men. It has been difficult for women to be taken seriously. One exception may be Neval Sevindi. She is first on her party´s list of candidates in Istanbul. Sevendi says her position has raised eyebrows among her male colleagues.

"When are politicians inside our party, look at me, oh you are women," said Sevindi. "How you get first [laughs] and I have to be strong, but I don´t want to change my women identity because I want to show new role model."

The coffee shop is one of Turkey´s male domain´s. It is traditionally a place where men go to escape their wives and enjoy a game of dominos or cards. But the men here say they support female candidates. Taxi driver Metin Demir says he is disappointed few women are running for office. this year.

He says the most of his countrymen support equality. But, he says women must work hard to see it becomes a reality

During her campaign, Didem Engin has met a lot of Turkish men, who share the opinion of that taxi driver. In fact, Engin thinks people are ahead of the politicians when it comes to women having power.

"I believe that there is much more and more role for the leaders of the party to support women and bring them to the parliament, because Turkish society likes to see women acting," saidn Engin. "We had a women prime minister. When we are talking to people in the street, they really want to see women and young persons, so I believe Turkish society is really supporting women."

This Sunday´s election appears likely to justify Engin´s optimism, as political analylsts are predicting that the next parliament could see a near tripling of women deputies. Advocates of Turkish women´s rights hope that this will pave the way to their voices being increasingly heard in Turkish politics.

http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2007-07/2007-07-16-voa34.cfm?

CFID=32223655&CFTOKEN=98168892

71.       MichelleAnne
21 posts
 30 Aug 2008 Sat 06:12 am

I think that no matter where you come from you are what you were made to be. If you grow up around patriarcal ruling you will grow and continue the path, same is true if you reverse the example. I believe so because i was raised very far from religion and i had toys ´suitable´ for male and female. I was thought to cook and repair a car. I took dancing classes and played sports. I was raised in a non traditional family. I see the difference I have with others. I also believe that if you show someone (girl or boy) that he or she can do what he wants, that there is no gender limits, he or she can grow up to be exactly same. Like we say here, it does matter who you are, what metters is how you were born

 

72.       doudi94
845 posts
 31 Aug 2008 Sun 08:19 pm

Opinion of the Committee on Women´s Rights and Gender Equality

 

The Committee on Women´s Rights and Gender Equality calls on the Committee on Foreign Affairs, as the committee responsible, to incorporate the following suggestions in its motion for a resolution:

 

having regard to its resolutions of 6 July 2005 [1] and of 13 February 2007 [2] on women´s role in social, economic and political life in Turkey,

1. Emphasises that respecting human rights, including women’s rights, is a conditio sinequa non for membership of the EU and calls on the Commission to make the issue of human rights, in particular women’s rights a priority in its negotiations with Turkey;

 

2. Underlines the importance for Turkey of combating all forms of discrimination in line with Article 13 EC treaty, which requires equality for all regardless of sex, racial or ethnic origin, religion or belief, disability, age or sexual orientation;

 

.......................

15. Calls on the Turkish authorities to further tackle the gender gap in primary education and to better monitor drop-outs, especially of girls.

 

12. Commends the Turkish government on its support for successful cooperation projects between EU and Turkish partners, such as the twinning project which is preparing for an independent gender equality body and which is training 750 officials on gender mainstreaming, expects that such a gender equality body will be created without delay;

 

9. Considers it crucial that the new constitution should ensure gender equality and provides women with more, not fewer, rights, including full enjoyment of their right to work; that it should lay the foundations for equal representation at all levels of decision making, that it should avoid the use of vague criteria such as "General Morality"; that it should refrain from perceiving women primarily as family or community members or as a vulnerable group needing protection and that it should reaffirm women’s human rights, including their sexual and reproductive rights, as their individual rights;

 

xoxoxoxoxo theses are only soem of them

 

here are the rest

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=139774

73.       vineyards
1954 posts
 01 Sep 2008 Mon 03:17 am

This is cool doudi. Nevertheless, there are a number of things that Turkish women could set an example for women in say Germany, Sweden and France. In Sweden women receive less pension money than males. In German army, female soldiers are paid less; and in France, they are also  penalized for being women; i.e. problems in maternal duties etc.

 

In Turkey, salaries are paid in equal terms. There are tons of examples from both the private and public sectors. A number of my friends have wives receiving better salaries than themselves. My wife too was paid more than I was when we were working in comperable positions.

 

It is indeed very funny to come up with a list of requirements every now and then when there are still a lot of things to be corrected in one´s own society.

 

Many of Turkey´s problems are linked to ignorance and poverty in remote parts of the country. Many of the problems regarding gender equality in Europe however, are not directly linked to affluence. They are usually cultural problems stemming from a patriarchal heritage. Would it be otherwise, deficiencies in gender equality in this country could not be corrected so rapidly as people become wealthier.

 

Learners of the Turkish language should have noticed, there is NO GENDER in our language either. Women and Men are not referred to differently nor is there a gender classification of nouns or adjectives. Isn´t this noteworthy?

74.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 01 Sep 2008 Mon 01:01 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

... Turkish women could set an example for women in say Germany, Sweden and France. ....

In Turkey, salaries are paid in equal terms. There are tons of examples from both the private and public sectors. ....

 

Had there been some statistics regarding what you say, it would have been much better.

 

75.       vineyards
1954 posts
 01 Sep 2008 Mon 11:31 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

Quoting vineyards

... Turkish women could set an example for women in say Germany, Sweden and France. ....

In Turkey, salaries are paid in equal terms. There are tons of examples from both the private and public sectors. ....

 

Had there been some statistics regarding what you say, it would have been much better.

 


 

True but:

 

* This is not an academic platform

* The EU report does not provide any tangible evidence backed by comperative statistical data either.

* It is ridiculous  to trust some French or German bureucrat for the solutions of your social problems.

* I have included my own personal observations. Anyone could just do the same. Have you ever heard of a boss offering gender based salaries. In corporates the recruitment procedure has become very sophisticated. True they pay tremendous attention to personal details but I have  never heard of sex being one of them.

 

 

 

76.       hillside
3 posts
 10 Sep 2008 Wed 05:59 pm

Having lived in Istanbul for five years, it seemed to me that there is a considerable degree of gender equality in that city. I can´t speak for the east, or rest of Turkey.

 

Of course, by gender equality, we usually mean women having as much or more rights than men.

 

Women seemed to be successful in all walks of life--right to the top. Turkish women under these successful women complained and claimed they would rather have a man than a woman as a boss and employer. Their point beign the women were tyrants.

 

I personally didn´t have any problems.

 

Men are also equal with women--equal access to children after a divorce or separation. If you are a father in England, for example, you have no rights whatsoever--resposiblities to pay money, but no rights for your money.

 

In this respect, Turkey is more advanced in gender issues than England or Scotland.

 

(A bigger problem in Turkey and the west, is that of class equality. Like in the West, the rich seem to be able to do what they want--anything they want--the poor are emasculated.)

 

I am married to a Turkish woman, and I did not notice any sign of inequality in the extended families.

 

However, the one area would be that of sexual promiscuity. Boys are allowed to be as promiscuous as they like, or as they can afford--prostitues everywhere. But the pressure is on girls to save themselves for marriage. Many do, but many don´t.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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