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Abdullah Gül´s ´Yerevan expedition´
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| 1. |
05 Sep 2008 Fri 08:26 pm |
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Only a miracle can prevent President Abdullah Gül´s visit to the Armenian capital Yerevan on Saturday. In the football World Cup qualifiers Turkey is partnered with Armenia. So this will open historic new doors for Turks and Armenians.New Armenian President Serge Sarkisian, elected in Feb. 2008, used this opportunity and invited his Turkish counterpart to “watch the game together” in an article he wrote for the Wall Street Journal, July 9.
Today´s Turkish Daily News
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| 2. |
05 Sep 2008 Fri 11:48 pm |
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Only a miracle can prevent President Abdullah Gül´s visit to the Armenian capital Yerevan on Saturday. In the football World Cup qualifiers Turkey is partnered with Armenia. So this will open historic new doors for Turks and Armenians.New Armenian President Serge Sarkisian, elected in Feb. 2008, used this opportunity and invited his Turkish counterpart to “watch the game together” in an article he wrote for the Wall Street Journal, July 9.
Today´s Turkish Daily News
right, visiting a country that doesn`t even recognize our borders is a very wise thing to do, especially if you`re the president!
here is the Turkish word of the day to learn; "yalaka"
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| 3. |
06 Sep 2008 Sat 03:59 pm |
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A translation - Ahmet Altan´s daily column (from taraf news paper)
Orginal is here
I know, telling these things are not welcomed in this country but they endured one of the worst sufferings on this earth.
Dont say that ´but they killed us too´.
Saying this is a real shame..
What is and old man from Adana and a baby from Sivas got to do with Armenian mobs from the borders of Russia
Only being Armenian?
Just think for a moment.
When you are sitting in your home at night, your door is knocked and they take you away by force.
You start walking.
In the middle of the night you are forced to walk on the mountain roads with tired crowds.
An old woman is collapsing next to you.
They are hitting her head with rifle butts.
She is staying there lifeless.
They are smashing her crying grandson to the rocks.
Do you think they are just fairy tales?
Has anybody raped your wife next to you?
Has anybody killed your husband in front of your eyes?
Has anybody taken you away while you were eating your dinner because you are a Turk?
But they did this to hundreds of thousands of people because they were just Armenians
We have a conscience we own.
Are we going to sideline ourselves with ittihatcilar (young turks) because we are from the same blood or we will cry to death of a baby from another nation?
Do you now how many Armanians they killed?
Just because they were Armenians.
Think all of them in the middle of the night on a mountain road.
Hungry, tired and alone.
Infested with lice and ill.
They know they are taken to their deaths.
They are taking them to their deaths.
and killing them.
Hundreds of thousands of them!
Is it really important what nationality they have?
Do you really dont feel sorry for these people who suffered this much because they are Armenians?
For a moment, for a short time, you put yourself in their shoes.
Feel that moment , feel that helplessness
Are we going to ignore their sufferings because we are Turks?
...
And us, we even have forbidden their relatives to write requiems for many years
They lied to us all the time.
They told us "but they killed us too".
There were mobs over the borders with Russia and they killed.
They were barbarians too.
But what have they got to do with women, babies, men and elders from Bursa,Sivas,Maras and Adana?
Ittihatcilar killed them because they were just Armenians.
Forget ittihacilar, and murderers.
You are closer to victims not the murderers.
Because you are humans.
And now you are going into their country.
I dont know if we can,
but for the old times sake, if some tears come into our eyes and if we can bumble ´forgive us´.
Maybe a huge weight will be taken from our shoulders and may be a reflection of an old Armenian with mustache will smile for a moment in the place where everybody went and we will all go.
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| 4. |
06 Sep 2008 Sat 04:45 pm |
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To The handsom, thank you for posting this, thought this might be of interest to you too:
Assyrian genocide studies
The Assyrians Surviving Genocide After World War I
Prof. Anahit Khosroyeva
Armenia
 Prof. Khosroyeva is a specialist in the Assyrian genocide studies and has published a book on this topic. The following is the complete text of Prof. Khosroyeva´s speech at the Assyrian National Convention, held in September 2005 in Boston.
During the World War I along with the Armenians the Assyrians, one of the most ancient nations of the Middle East, also underwent the cruel massacres under the influence and direction of the Young Turks´ government. In the Ottoman Turkey and the adjacent territories, where more than one million Assyrians lived, a real genocide was implemented according to the criteria of international law. But the tragedy of Assyrians did not come to the end with this. Both during the World War I and after it the Assyrian nation bled both from the Europe´s incitements and from the slaughters and oppressions organized by Turkish, Kurdish, Iranian and Arabian tyrants.
The end of World War I and the fall of the Ottoman Empire gave a birth to hopes of gaining autonomy among the Assyrians. Doomed to unbearable conditions because of the policy implemented by Turkish government, they had to pin certain hopes on Russian and British authorities, which made lavish promises that in return for their military support, after the triumphal end of the war the countries of Triple Entente will enable the Assyrians to establish an independent state. Lulling them with these promises both the Russians and the British resolved a number of their strategic and political problems of primary importance at the cost of the Assyrians´ blood both in Turkey and in Iran, and eventually did not fulfill their promises.
Part of the Assyrian refuges, who escaped Turkish yataghan as early as in 1918, reached an Iraqi town Baqubah, and the other part that together with the Armenians made up about 50-60 thousand people, reached Baghdad[1]. Here they were lodged in camps constructed by the British army, were they lived in tents. Although the refugees had enough food, but the conditions of life were unbearable. One of the eyewitnesses testified that "in the beginning the number of dying people in average reached 70-80 people a day. Corpses of the Armenians and Assyrians were taken from hospital straight to the cemetery. And as here the number of Assyrian refuges was greater than that of Armenians´, the number of the dead among them was also greater.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SiyasetMeydani/message/51589
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| 5. |
06 Sep 2008 Sat 04:48 pm |
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A translation - Ahmet Altan´s daily column (from taraf news paper)
Orginal is here
Powerful words!
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| 6. |
06 Sep 2008 Sat 04:53 pm |
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Please explain to me: Ittihatcilar
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| 7. |
06 Sep 2008 Sat 04:55 pm |
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Do you really dont feel sorry for these people who suffered this much because they are Armenians?
I DO!!! I feel so sorry for them! Thats just soo sad!!! I cant imagine being you know, perscuted and followed and murdered because of my blood!Thts just so unfair!
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| 8. |
06 Sep 2008 Sat 05:15 pm |
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Doudi,do you know anything about so called Armenian genocide ?!
I DO!!! I feel so sorry for them! Thats just soo sad!!! I cant imagine being you know, perscuted and followed and murdered because of my blood!Thts just so unfair!
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| 11. |
06 Sep 2008 Sat 05:38 pm |
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As Gül is going to Armenia for a football match, lets mention another football match contrary to Altan´s agitation.
"There was a preparation for a one net football match in Khojaly square. Players were very assertive and also willing. They were using two women´s cutted heads as a pole for the sign of net and at that moment they were looking for a ball to play.
When they found a hairless boy, one of the armenian gang screamed:
-This boy is hairless with a small head, can roll very well, cut his head off.
At the same time, boy´s body fell down aside and his head fell down center. Armenians began to hit the boys head with their bloody boots, yelling victory.
And the world continues to rotate...
How the earth and sky bear this sorrow!...I wonder why living and lifeless subsistences did not get into motion!...why the stars did not collide eachother and fall onto earth!...why the sun did not break into pieces while the arms and legs were being cut by gang-saws!...why the blue sky was not rolled out while the people were being folded like a can!...why the mountains did not walk while the baby was being skewered to mother´s breast with a knife bigger than baby!...why the oceans did not boil while the infants were being boiled!...why the moon did not die down while Hazangül were lying down on the snow with her baby!...why a typhoon did not arise, dismantle all the buidings on eath and blow them to the sky!...where is it that promised day, being waited with longings and missings, why didnt it come!...Doomsday!..."
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| 12. |
06 Sep 2008 Sat 07:22 pm |
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Do you now how many Armanians they killed?
Just because they were Armenians.
Biggest lie ever...
APRIL 24, 1915
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The Ottoman government, against numerous rebellions that began after 1890 and promptly following Armenian massacres which resulted in the murder of tens of thousands of Turks, contented with informing most important persons of Armenian congregation and Armenian deputies that "Government will take the necessary precautions if Armenians continue to stab in the back and assassinate the Turks". However, it became a necessity to secure behind the borders because the army was in war at various fronts, the events did not stop but increased and assaults towards defenseless Turkish women and children increased.
With this aim, on April 24, 1915 the Armenian Committees were closed and 2345 of their directors were arrested due to the crime of carrying out activities against the government. April 24, which is commemorated annually as the "Anniversary of Armenian Massacre" by the Armenians abroad is this date when the 2345 revolutionary committee members were arrested and it has no relation with deportation.
However, the Armenian revolutionary committee members who propagandize even the unfounded events by exaggeration, promptly made a move to propagandize these mentioned arrests. As a matter of fact, Ecmiyazin Catholicos Kevork sent the telegraph below to the President of USA:
"Dear President, according to the last news we got from Turkish Armenia, the massacre began there and an organized terror endangered the presence of the Armenian people. At this critical moment, I am addressing to the noble feelings of your Excellency and great American Nation and in the name of humanity and Christianity belief requesting you to promptly interfere by means of your great Republic´s diplomatic representatives and protect my people in Turkey who are left to violence of the Turkish fanaticism.
Kevork, Archbishop and Catholicos of all Armenians."
Pursuant to the telegraph of Archbishop Kevork, Russia´s Washington Ambassador got in contact with USA and thus, April 24, which is the day when Armenian committee members dealing with illegal works were arrested was propagandized to world´s public opinion as "the day on which Turks massacred Armenians".
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THE RELOCATION LAW
“Temporary Law on the Measures Implemented by the Military against those Opposing the Government Implementations at Wartime” also known as “Immigration Law-Tehcir Law” was resolved on 27 May 1915. (1) The Law was published in the Official Gazette of the time, Takvim-i Vekayi, on 1 June 1915 and came into force. (2)
Article 1 of the before mentioned temporary law authorizes, the commanders of the Army, Army-corps and Divisions to take military measures against those opposing government orders, country’s defense, and the protection of peace; and against those organizing armed attacks and resistance, and kill rebels during aggression and uprising in wartime. The second article authorizes the same commanders to transfer and resettle on a single basis or in mass, the people living in villages and towns who are found to be engaged in espionage or treason.
The properties owned by the Armenians subjected to immigration were protected under an order (3) dated 10 June 1915. “Commission on Abandoned Properties” comprising of a president and two members, one administrative and one financial, was established. These commissions are to determine Armenian properties in the villages and towns that are evacuated, and to keep detailed record books. One of the books is to be kept in the regional churches, one to be submitted to the regional administration, and one shall be kept by the commission. Non-durable goods and animal stock shall be auctioned and the money shall be kept. In location where a commission is not appointed, the provisions of the communiqué shall be enforced by the officers in the regions. Both the commission and the regional administrators shall be responsible for the protection of these properties until the Armenians return.
As it can be understood from the law dated 27 May 1915 and order dated 10 June 1915, the immigration implementation initiated by Talat Pasha and approved by the Parliament covers “the regions that threaten the security of the front directly”. The first of these regions includes the vicinities of Erzurum, Van and Bitlis, which constitute the background of Caucasian and Iranian fronts. The second region is provinces of Mersin-Iskenderun, which constitute the background of the Sinae front. Because, in these regions, Armenians were collaborating with the enemy and were engaged in activities facilitating the landing of the enemy forces.
However, the law regarding “the measures implemented by the military against those opposing the government implementations at wartime” is an authorizing law intended to protect the state and its legal order. One of the most important characteristics of this law is that “not a name of any ethnic group or community was mentioned nor even suggested in the text of the law”. The Ottoman citizens of Moslem, Greek and Armenian origin covered under this law were subjected to immigrate from their own place and resettle elsewhere. To regard this law as being directed against one particular ethnic group is an indication of a lack of information, or else, intentional behavior... (4)
Source requested:http://www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr/english/intro/index.html
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| 13. |
06 Sep 2008 Sat 07:44 pm |
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Do you want to see what Armenians are, Ros? This video may help you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Rk30k5vx0
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| 15. |
07 Sep 2008 Sun 01:16 am |
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This terrible period of history, where there were many tragedies, has been discussed before it seems eg. http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_22961_13
A few quotes:
Putting ourselves in the other man’s shoes on the ‘Armenian question’ by MEHMET ÖĞÜTÇÜ* What a fascinating but equally unrewarding subject to write on the “Armenian question” is. Everything you say will touch the sensitive nerves and deep-seated emotions of both the Turks and the Armenians. Neither side will be content with your line of thinking. It is dangerous water into which few people are willing to wade.
This is only the first few lines of a much longer post at the beginning of the thread.
By the way, I dont believe that Armenians in Turkey and in Armenia insist on this subject very much, because they know us very well.I am from a town where many Armenian had lived ,before moving to Istanbul for bussiness.My grandmother and my father have a lot of Armenian friends.Still, we have some Armenian families around us and they are really very nice people.These subject is the problem of just politicians ,who have benefits thanks to the Genocide , not nationalities and History.
It is clear that this issue is highly politicized and any country´s decision to accept it as "genocide" is purely based on political interests. It is quite a shame that so many Western countries have accepted it as a genocide despite the lack of adequate, objective (done by a third party) historical investigation. But the most remarkable phenomenon is that politicians get involved in this to begin with, and decide on what is the "legal" version of events.
As to the truth about this matter, the Armenians killed Turks and helped Allied Countries with the courage they got mainly from the Russians in order to establish an Armenian State inside Anatolia, reaching the Mediterranean Sea , and the Turkish people killed them back. Then they were forced out of the country by military force in order to stop the internal bleeding in the body of the Turkish State which was struggling for its survival. Unfortunately during the journey those who could not stand the extreme difficulties died. It was not a genocide and considering the conditions the Turkish state was in, it was the best and rightest thing to do at the time, as confessed by the first prime minister of Armenia Hovannes Kacaznunni in his report presented in the Dashnak Party Congress held in Bucharest in 1923: "We mutinied against the Turks. We took sides with the Allies, the enemies of the Turks. What we demanded from the Turks was "an Armenia from one sea to another". We killed and we were killed. The forced migration was righteous and necessary. We could not see the facts and we were the starters of the incidents. The national struggle of the Turks was righteous. They made the Turkey Armenians subject to a forced migration in summer and autumn of 1915. The Turks knew well what they were doing and there is not a matter they should be regretful about. This was the most proper and certain thing to do. Complaining about destiny and searching for the reasons of disasters outside ourselves is a pathetic situation. This has been a characteristic feature of our national politics which the Dashnaksoution Party was also not able to avoid." What more is there to say after that? The book containing this report is first published in Russia in Tiflis (Tbilisi). A censored version was also published in USA under the name of "The Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnaksoution) Has Nothing To Do Anymore" in New York in 1955. This historical report is -of course- banned in Armenia. The Dashnaks in Europe also confiscated the books. Translations in various languages in European libraries have been confiscated. The books name is available in the catalogs but the books themselves are not to be found on the shelves. The Russian issue is still available in the Lenin library in Moscow.
It seems the Lenin library has been renamed, but can anyone shed any light on the report?
Btw, none of the above is meant to give a view either way for myself. It is very difficult, as an outsider, to know where the truth lies - historians, journalists and politicians are not averse to bias and anyone can find something on the ´net to bolster their own personal view, whether it be pro Armenian or pro Turk.
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| 16. |
07 Sep 2008 Sun 03:53 am |
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Excellently formulated, peacetrain, you could not have said better, so true! Thanks.
Btw, none of the above is meant to give a view either way for myself. It is very difficult, as an outsider, to know where the truth lies - historians, journalists and politicians are not averse to bias and anyone can find something on the ´net to bolster their own personal view, whether it be pro Armenian or pro Turk.
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| 17. |
07 Sep 2008 Sun 04:05 am |
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OMG!!!omg, poor people!! Its like what hitler did to the jews!!!! OMG!! I am ill now! Omg i sware my heart brke right now, its like when iw as readuing about the holocaust and the stories of ppl and stuff, I sware i started crying so bad!! I think ill wait later till I read about what happened, not now....
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| 18. |
07 Sep 2008 Sun 04:46 am |
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Calm down. Are you sure you´re in Egypt? You seem to be around at all hours which, at your age, is not healthy. Don´t your parents mind?
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| 19. |
07 Sep 2008 Sun 04:49 am |
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I have noticed that too. Every hour on the hour! I think doudi is certainly not residing in Egypt.
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