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Newbie´s question :)
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26 Dec 2008 Fri 09:39 pm |
"Masada bir kitap var." - why does this sentence not follow the subject-object-verb form?
I think I missed smthn. 
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26 Dec 2008 Fri 10:10 pm |
Help please 
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26 Dec 2008 Fri 10:22 pm |
There is a book on the table.
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26 Dec 2008 Fri 10:23 pm |
Thank you, but that was not my question. 
I asked why doesn´t this sentence follow the subject-object-verb form?
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26 Dec 2008 Fri 10:32 pm |
"Masada bir kitap var." - why does this sentence not follow the subject-object-verb form?
I think I missed smthn. 
This is how I understand it, but you might want to check with some more experienced learners.
In this sentence there´s no overt verb - the implied verb is "olmak" which roughly can be translated as "to be" or "to happen". So when you look at the sentence structurally you have a complement (masada), then a subject (bir kitap), then var (which is an adjective meaning "existing" but is translated as "there is") and then the implied verb olmak, which is missing here, but could be expressed as "dir" at the end of "var" (Masada bir kitap vardýr). There´s no object in this sentence as far as I can tell. So it does follow the S-O-V structure, except there´s no O and V is implied.
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26 Dec 2008 Fri 10:34 pm |
Things are clearer now. 
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15 Jan 2009 Thu 08:32 pm |
NOTE: ´Var´ > meaning ´is´ > IS A VERB. There can never be a sentence without a VERB!!! A group of words, without a VERB can only be a ´Phrase´!!!
Tazx1
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15 Jan 2009 Thu 10:28 pm |
NOTE: ´Var´ > meaning ´is´ > IS A VERB. There can never be a sentence without a VERB!!! A group of words, without a VERB can only be a ´Phrase´!!!
Tazx1
"Var" is not a verb, it is an adjective. It is not the same as English "is" even though it may translate as "there is" or "there are" in some cases. There actually is no equivalent for either "var" or "yok" in the English language, just like there´s no equivalent for "to have" in Turkish - both languages use different language structures to express the same meaning.
"Var olmak" is a verb (verbal phrase?) meaning "to exist"
"Varmak" is a verb that means "to reach, to arrive, to come to, etc" - however "varmak" and "var" in the example in the question are 2 different words.
There are plenty of sentences where verbs are not directly expressed, especially in the so called existential sentences or equational sentences (A is B) - for example "Ahmed doktor", "Hava güzel", etc.
For more info about it, let me refer you to "Turkish Grammar"by Prof. Lewis.
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16 Jan 2009 Fri 08:29 pm |
"Var" is not a verb, it is an adjective. It is not the same as English "is" even though it may translate as "there is" or "there are" in some cases. There actually is no equivalent for either "var" or "yok" in the English language, just like there´s no equivalent for "to have" in Turkish - both languages use different language structures to express the same meaning.
"Var olmak" is a verb (verbal phrase?) meaning "to exist"
"Varmak" is a verb that means "to reach, to arrive, to come to, etc" - however "varmak" and "var" in the example in the question are 2 different words.
There are plenty of sentences where verbs are not directly expressed, especially in the so called existential sentences or equational sentences (A is B) - for example "Ahmed doktor", "Hava güzel", etc.
For more info about it, let me refer you to "Turkish Grammar"by Prof. Lewis.
Though "var" is an adjective, it is also used as a noun (http://tdk.org.tr/TR/SozBul.aspx?F6E10F8892433CFFAAF6AA849816B2EF05A79F75456518CA) ... And it is mostly used as a "yüklem" in other words acts like a verb (http://www.turkcesozluk.org/search.php?record=0&word=var&desc=detailed&abbr_1=0&abbr_2=0&abbr_3=0&abbr_4=0&abbr_5=0&abbr_6=0&author=0)
I hope this makes things clearer.
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16 Jan 2009 Fri 08:49 pm |
I can act as a monkey but it doesn´t make me one. 
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16 Jan 2009 Fri 08:55 pm |
I can act as a monkey but it doesn´t make me one. 
So could you please explain how come it is an adjective in this sentence?
çok iþim var, þimdi gelemem...
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16 Jan 2009 Fri 09:07 pm |
So could you please explain how come it is an adjective in this sentence?
çok iþim var, þimdi gelemem...
Literal translation: A lot of my work existing (adjective), I can´t come now.
Meaning translation: I have a lot of work, I can´t come now.
Just because it´s translated with the verb "to have" or "there is" it doesn´t make it a verb, it´s only "acting" as one.
Anyway, you´re probably a native, I´ve only been learning for a few months, so you do know Turkish better than me if that´s what you´re trying to prove. I, however, do like grammar and I do read a lot about it. Let me refer you, again, to "Turkish Grammar" by Prof Lewis, and "The Dictionary of the Turkish Verbs" - if you have any problems with what I posted, pick it up with the authors of those books, who, accidently, happen to claim the same.
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16 Jan 2009 Fri 09:20 pm |
Literal translation: A lot of my work existing (adjective), I can´t come now.
Meaning translation: I have a lot of work, I can´t come now.
Just because it´s translated with the verb "to have" or "there is" it doesn´t make it a verb, it´s only "acting" as one.
Anyway, you´re probably a native, I´ve only been learning for a few months, so you do know Turkish better than me if that´s what you´re trying to prove. I, however, do like grammar and I do read a lot about it. Let me refer you, again, to "Turkish Grammar" by Prof Lewis, and "The Dictionary of the Turkish Verbs" - if you have any problems with what I posted, pick it up with the authors of those books, who, accidently, happen to claim the same.
First of all, I should say i appreciate your effort.. But having said that, as a person who also happens to be interested in grammer, I searched and gave you the links, specially from Türk Dil Kurumu, because it just sounded wrong. I have no problems with anyone, it´s just that everybody can make mistakes... And I didn´t want anyone to be confused.
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16 Jan 2009 Fri 09:33 pm |
First of all, I should say i appreciate your effort.. But having said that, as a person who also happens to be interested in grammer, I searched and gave you the links, specially from Türk Dil Kurumu, because it just sounded wrong. I have no problems with anyone, it´s just that everybody can make mistakes... And I didn´t want anyone to be confused.
Well, I appreciate the links , even though they are entirely in Turkish, however I did manage to notice the big, bold sýfat under var in the first link, and then the little s. in the 2nd link, which I´m assuming stands for sýfat, and we both know what sýfat means.
I really don´t understand what it is that we´re disagreeing on here, you´re convinced that I´m making a mistake and then you provide a link that says in bold letters that var is an adjective. I´m missing something here.
Anyway, I´m going to let it go. I think everybody here can look up the info on their own and make their own mind as to what var is. And in the long run it probably doesn´t even matter, maybe it´s more important how to use it and not what to call it.
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