... bir þekilde

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... bir þekilde

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Melek74
1506 posts

18 Jan 2009 Sun 08:07 pm

I have a question about the use of the expression ....(adjective) bir Ã¾ekilde ...

I´ve seen it in sentences such as:

"Ahmet üzgün bir Ã¾ekilde cevap verdi", where "üzgün bir Ã¾ekilde" is translated as "sadly";

"O yorgun bir Ã¾ekilde eve döner", where I would imagine "yorgun bir Ã¾ekilde" would be translated simply as "tired".

What I´m trying to understand is if that is the usual way to form adverbs out of adjectives? Can any adjective be used in that expression? For example, can one say: "mutlu bir Ã¾ekilde" for "happily", "uykulu bir Ã¾ekilde" for "sleepily" and "kÃ½zgÃ½n bir Ã¾ekilde" for "angrily? What about adjectives such as "güzel" - can one say "Güzel bir Ã¾ekilde Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi" for "She sung beautifully"?

Thanks.

harp00n
3993 posts

18 Jan 2009 Sun 08:18 pm

Quoting Melek74

I have a question about the use of the expression ....(adjective) bir Ã¾ekilde ...

I´ve seen it in sentences such as:

"Ahmet üzgün bir Ã¾ekilde cevap verdi", where "üzgün bir Ã¾ekilde" is translated as "sadly";

"O yorgun bir Ã¾ekilde eve döner", where I would imagine "yorgun bir Ã¾ekilde" would be translated simply as "tired".

Thanks.

hmmm, i think it´s not a good idea.

Ahmet has answered sadly. You can translate that sentence

"Ahmet üzgün bir Ã¾ekilde cevap verdi"

Ahmet üzgün(ce) cevapladÃ½.

Merih
933 posts

18 Jan 2009 Sun 08:41 pm

Quoting Melek74

I have a question about the use of the expression ....(adjective) bir Ã¾ekilde ...

I´ve seen it in sentences such as:

"Ahmet üzgün bir Ã¾ekilde cevap verdi", where "üzgün bir Ã¾ekilde" is translated as "sadly";

"O yorgun bir Ã¾ekilde eve döner", where I would imagine "yorgun bir Ã¾ekilde" would be translated simply as "tired".

Thanks.

Yes, you can use adjective + bir Ã¾ekilde.. and it is widely used.

harp00n
3993 posts

18 Jan 2009 Sun 08:53 pm

in daily conversation ????? ohh yes we are using in every sentence....

Melek74
1506 posts

18 Jan 2009 Sun 09:17 pm

Thank you both for the responses.

So, just to make sure I understand it, it sounds that this is an acceptable way to express how something is, but it seems that maybe not the most common way. So is adding the -ce/ca, -çe/ça a better way to express the same idea?

In the example I gave initially, would it be more common/correct to say:

"Güzel bir Ã¾ekilde Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi" or "Güzelce Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi" to express "She sung beautifully"?

How about "mutlu" - is it better to say "Mutlu bir Ã¾ekilde geldi" or "Mutluca geldi" for "He came happily".

I understand that this suffix (-ce/ca, -çe/ça) is used for things like nationalities, to say that something is according to somebody (e.g. bence) or that something is "ish" (like çocukça - childish), but I´m still a bit unsure about adding that suffix to regular adjectives.

Merih
933 posts

18 Jan 2009 Sun 09:33 pm

Quoting Melek74

Thank you both for the responses.

In the example I gave initially, would it be more common/correct to say:

"Güzel bir Ã¾ekilde Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi" or "Güzelce Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi" to express "She sung beautifully"?

How about "mutlu" - is it better to say "Mutlu bir Ã¾ekilde geldi" or "Mutluca geldi" for "He came happily".

We don´t say mutluca geldi or güzelce Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi, we always use mutlu bir Ã¾ekilde geldi and güzel bir Ã¾ekilde Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi..

We use it for adj. when we believe that quality is close to the said adj.

slightly beautiful / so so girl (not very beautiful, but not ugly) - güzelce bir kÃ½z

slightly fat man - Ã¾iÃ¾manca bir adam..

a bit saddish expression - üzgünce bir ifade

a plate larger than usual - büyükçe bir tabak

But it is not very common to use it with adj, unless you want to mean it. I hope this makes it clear.

Melek74
1506 posts

18 Jan 2009 Sun 09:36 pm

Quoting Merih

We don´t say mutluca geldi or güzelce Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi, we always use mutlu bir Ã¾ekilde geldi and güzel bir Ã¾ekilde Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi..

We use it for adj. when we believe that quality is close to the said adj.

slightly beautiful / so so girl (not very beautiful, but not ugly) - güzelce bir kÃ½z

slightly fat man - Ã¾iÃ¾manca bir adam..

a bit saddish expression - üzgünce bir ifade

a plate larger than usual - büyükçe bir tabak

But it is not very common to use it with adj, unless you want to mean it. I hope this makes it clear.

It does, thank you very much for your explanations Merih. ${#lang_emotions_flowers}$

Merih
933 posts

18 Jan 2009 Sun 09:38 pm

Quoting Melek74

It does, thank you very much for your explanations Merih. ${#lang_emotions_flowers}$

You´re welcome.

si++
3785 posts

18 Jan 2009 Sun 10:18 pm

Quoting Merih

We don´t say mutluca geldi or güzelce Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi, we always use mutlu bir Ã¾ekilde geldi and güzel bir Ã¾ekilde Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi..

I don´t see anything wrong with mutluca geldi or güzelce Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi. They are correct. They can be used.

We use it for adj. when we believe that quality is close to the said adj.

HÃ½zlÃ½ca soludu

YavaÃ¾ça sÃ½vÃ½Ã¾tÃ½

Güzelce dinlendi

Ãyice emin oldu

etc

slightly beautiful / so so girl (not very beautiful, but not ugly) - güzelce bir kÃ½z

slightly fat man - Ã¾iÃ¾manca bir adam..

a bit saddish expression - üzgünce bir ifade

a plate larger than usual - büyükçe bir tabak

But it is not very common to use it with adj, unless you want to mean it. I hope this makes it clear.

10.

si++
3785 posts

18 Jan 2009 Sun 10:24 pm

What is this admin? My post has been screwed up.

Quoting Merih

We don´t say mutluca geldi or güzelce Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi, we always use mutlu bir Ã¾ekilde geldi and güzel bir Ã¾ekilde Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi..

We use it for adj. when we believe that quality is close to the said adj.

HÃ½zlÃ½ca soludu

YavaÃ¾ça sÃ½vÃ½Ã¾tÃ½

Güzelce dinlendi

Ãyice emin oldu

etc

slightly beautiful / so so girl (not very beautiful, but not ugly) - güzelce bir kÃ½z

slightly fat man - Ã¾iÃ¾manca bir adam..

a bit saddish expression - üzgünce bir ifade

a plate larger than usual - büyükçe bir tabak

But it is not very common to use it with adj, unless you want to mean it. I hope this makes it clear.

11.

Merih
933 posts

18 Jan 2009 Sun 10:31 pm

Quoting si++

What is this admin? My post has been screwed up.

Quoting Merih

We don´t say mutluca geldi or güzelce Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi, we always use mutlu bir Ã¾ekilde geldi and güzel bir Ã¾ekilde Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi..

I don´t see anything wrong with mutluca geldi or güzelce Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi. They are correct. They can be used.

We use it for adj. when we believe that quality is close to the said adj.

-ce suffix also makes adverbs

Çabukça eve geldi

HÃ½zlÃ½ca soludu

YavaÃ¾ça sÃ½vÃ½Ã¾tÃ½

Güzelce dinlendi

Ãyice emin oldu

etc

slightly beautiful / so so girl (not very beautiful, but not ugly) - güzelce bir kÃ½z

slightly fat man - Ã¾iÃ¾manca bir adam..

a bit saddish expression - üzgünce bir ifade

a plate larger than usual - büyükçe bir tabak

But it is not very common to use it with adj, unless you want to mean it. I hope this makes it clear.

That is really funny...

12.

lady in red
6947 posts

18 Jan 2009 Sun 10:40 pm

Quoting Merih

That is really funny...

The fact that his post was screwed up or do you mean that what si++ says is wrong?

13.

Merih
933 posts

19 Jan 2009 Mon 05:05 am

Quoting lady in red

The fact that his post was screwed up or do you mean that what si++ says is wrong?

I guess both.. ${#lang_emotions_satisfied_nod}$

14.

Merih
933 posts

19 Jan 2009 Mon 05:12 am

Quoting si++

Could you tell me when did you in your life used it like: mutluca geldi, or güzelce Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi... may be it is not wrong grammatically, but we never use it..

The other examples you have given can not apply for other adjectives as these ones are always used like that...

hÃ½zlÃ½ca solumak

iyice emin olmak

yavaÃ¾ça sÃ½vÃ½Ã¾mak

güzelce dinlenmek

as using them like:

iyi bir Ã¾ekilde emin olmak

yavaÃ¾ bir Ã¾ekilde dinlenmek

güzel bir Ã¾ekilde dinlenmek

hÃ½zli bir Ã¾ekilde solumak

does not give the same meaning, and is not used widely.

15.

si++
3785 posts

19 Jan 2009 Mon 11:20 am

Quoting Merih

Could you tell me when did you in your life used it like: mutluca geldi, or güzelce Ã¾arkÃ½ söyledi... may be it is not wrong grammatically,  OK you accept it they are not wrong, so they can be used. They sound OK to me when somebody says ´em. but we never use it..

The other examples you have given can not apply for other adjectives as these ones are always used like that...

hÃ½zlÃ½ca solumak

iyice emin olmak

yavaÃ¾ça sÃ½vÃ½Ã¾mak

güzelce dinlenmek

as using them like:

iyi bir Ã¾ekilde emin olmak

yavaÃ¾ bir Ã¾ekilde dinlenmek

güzel bir Ã¾ekilde dinlenmek

hÃ½zli bir Ã¾ekilde solumak

I would prefer the shorter ones and they give the same meaning to me. Usually shorter forms are preferred. It´s human nature to choose the shorter forms and seen in every language.

does not give the same meaning, and is not used widely.

16.

Merih
933 posts

19 Jan 2009 Mon 12:48 pm

Quoting si++

i think there is some kind of conspiracy to your posts..

17.

lady in red
6947 posts

19 Jan 2009 Mon 01:03 pm

Quoting Merih

i think there is some kind of conspiracy to your posts..

Please keep conspiracy theories out of the Language Section - and in General/Offtopic where they belong!! ${#lang_emotions_ninja}$

18.

si++
3785 posts

19 Jan 2009 Mon 01:39 pm

Quoting lady in red

Please keep conspiracy theories out of the Language Section - and in General/Offtopic where they belong!! ${#lang_emotions_ninja}$

Everything I said in this thread is relevant here.

19.

Merih
933 posts

19 Jan 2009 Mon 03:04 pm

Quoting lady in red

Please keep conspiracy theories out of the Language Section - and in General/Offtopic where they belong!! ${#lang_emotions_ninja}$

It´s not fair.. we were just joking ${#lang_emotions_unsure}$

20.

lady in red
6947 posts

19 Jan 2009 Mon 06:36 pm

Quoting Merih

It´s not fair.. we were just joking ${#lang_emotions_unsure}$

hmmm.......and of course I was deadly serious! ${#lang_emotions_rolleyes}$

21.

Merih
933 posts

19 Jan 2009 Mon 07:49 pm

Quoting lady in red

hmmm.......and of course I was deadly serious! ${#lang_emotions_rolleyes}$

${#lang_emotions_head_bang}$

can i stop banging my head now? It really hurts.

22.

si++
3785 posts

20 Jan 2009 Tue 04:25 am

Quoting Merih

i think there is some kind of conspiracy to your posts..

Some more of it then:

Consider the phrases "recliner", "chair", and "furniture". Recliner is a more specific category than chair; furniture is a more general category than chair. But the vast majority of chairs have a common use - you use the same sort of motor actions to sit down in them, and you sit down in them for the same sort of purpose (to take your weight off your feet while you eat, or read, or type, or rest). Recliners do not depart from this theme. "Furniture", on the other hand, includes things like beds and tables which have different uses, and call up different motor functions, from chairs.

In the terminology of cognitive psychology, "chair" is a basic-level category.

People have a tendency to talk, and presumably think, at the basic level of categorization - to draw the boundary around "chairs", rather than around the more specific category "recliner", or the more general category "furniture". People are more likely to say "You can sit in that chair" than "You can sit in that recliner" or "You can sit in that furniture".

And it is no coincidence that the word for "chair" contains fewer syllables than either "recliner" or "furniture". Basic-level categories, in general, tend to have short names; and nouns with short names tend to refer to basic-level categories. Not a perfect rule, of course, but a definite tendency. Frequent use goes along with short words; short words go along with frequent use.

23.

si++
3785 posts

20 Jan 2009 Tue 05:53 am

Quoting si++

Some more of it then:

In the terminology of cognitive psychology, "chair" is a basic-level category.

Haven´t we have thread about using cam instead of pencere couple weeks ago here? And it´s no coincidence either that cam is 1 syllable while pencere is 3.

http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_37322

24.

Melek74
1506 posts

20 Jan 2009 Tue 03:21 pm

Quoting si++

Haven´t we have thread about using cam instead of pencere couple weeks ago here? And it´s no coincidence either that cam is 1 syllable while pencere is 3.

http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_37322

Thank you very much Si++ for your explanations in this thread, I think you make an excellent point about using the forms that are easier or shorter to use. At this point I´m hoping to be somewhat understood no matter what form I use lol.

Thanks again ${#lang_emotions_flowers}$

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