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Turkish PM storms off in Gaza row
(110 Messages in 11 pages - View all)
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90.       Melek74
1506 posts
 02 Feb 2009 Mon 05:16 pm

 

Quoting cynicmystic

The reason why my post is long is because I actually took the time to provide evidence for what I was stating. Not many people on this board are capable of that.

 

 

 Aren´t we blessed to have you come and enlighten us idiots {#lang_emotions_flowers}

91.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 02 Feb 2009 Mon 05:27 pm

 

Quoting cynicmystic

 My point is very simple. War, terror and continual violence serves the Israeli economy, whose exports are predominantly counter-terrorism devices & know-how.  The reason why my post is long is because I actually took the time to provide evidence for what I was stating. Not many people on this board are capable of that. You can check every refrence in my post and see how it supports the point I was making. War, whether it is the War on Terror, or the War with Hizbollah is a much better economic stimulus than peace due to the way the Israeli economy was restructured following the collpase of the Mid East peace talks in Osla back in the early 90s. Hence, Israel escalates violence for economic reasons as well.

 

 

 

I think your previous post is rather simplistic to be honest..

"Isreal does not want peace because they are selling counter-terrorism devices & know-how" is the WRONG (OR A PARTIAL) answer to the question ´why Isreal does not want peace´..

If you remove ´counter-terrorism devices & know-how part´ from israel´s economy, do you think Isreal will collapse and they will want peace?

I dont think so..

They dont want peace because as long as there is a war, they will keep grabbing more arab lands.

As long as there is war, they dont need to go back to 1967 borders and they dont need to accept UN resolutions.

As long as there is a terrorism threat for them, they can delay leaving any part of land

they are occupying.

They can not sit for peace negatiations while occupying most of  west bank, south labenon etc.

And as long as they are occupying the land they think, they are having more legitimacy there..(Note the last 8 years during Bush administration, USA  spokesmen started to refer ´disputed territories´ as opposed to ´occupied territories´

They are the reasons why they are doing anything to preserve the current statusquo..

 



Edited (2/2/2009) by thehandsom
Edited (2/2/2009) by thehandsom

92.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 02 Feb 2009 Mon 09:48 pm

I do not know if you are blessed or not, and do not really care. I did not call you an idiot either. However, you did take the liberty of clarifying that for us.

 

What is the problem? Too many facts down where the sun doesn´t shine. What is wrong with the length of my post? Is it the content? If you read what many people post in the politics forum, it is mainly personal insults, half-assed statistics and bogus claims without any supporting evidence other than "I don´t think etc." Taking into consideration that a post half the size of mine usually contains nothing other than accusations, personal vendetta and name-calling on this board, I am actually quite proud of my posts. I do take the time to research the facts to support my arguments, and many people here do not. If waht you were looking for was a post in which someone talks straight out of his ass, then I am afraid you should have by-passed mine.

 

By the way, be honest, did you know about half the shit I wrote in my post about Israeli firms and its economy? Is it that bad for a post to have some substance to its content?

Quoting Melek74

 

 

 Aren´t we blessed to have you come and enlighten us idiots {#lang_emotions_flowers}

 

 

93.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 02 Feb 2009 Mon 10:00 pm

Actually handsom, I hate to disappoint you but it is your view that is simplistic. I have to admit that what I posted is NOT my view at all, but the view of well-recognized, established and published scholars. I wish that I could take credit and say that I came up with these ideas, but I have not. Like many others, I learned them through reading books for which knowledge and insight, I am certainly grateful and in debt to the original authors.

 

Every single point in my post regarding Israel was taken directly from two books written by Noam Chomsky and Naomi Klein. I just passed on the wisdom. The views that you consider "simplistic" are directly from the book SHOCK DOCTRINE, which has been a New York Times Bestseller, and the FINALIST for the National Business Book Award. The other book is the American Hegemony by Chomsky. I guess those that awarded Naomi Klein were not as deep thinkers as you are, and failed to see how simplistic her views were.

 

Had you have the habit of reading books rather than newspaper articles from ZAMAN that you love to post here to antagonize people, you would perhaps save yourself the shame of shooting yourself in the foot.

 

However, you could always write to those scholars and present your deep thoughts about these siiues and how "simplistic" their views are. I am sure they would be delighted.

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

I think your previous post is rather simplistic to be honest..

"Isreal does not want peace because they are selling counter-terrorism devices & know-how" is the WRONG (OR A PARTIAL) answer to the question ´why Isreal does not want peace´..

If you remove ´counter-terrorism devices & know-how part´ from israel´s economy, do you think Isreal will collapse and they will want peace?

I dont think so..

They dont want peace because as long as there is a war, they will keep grabbing more arab lands.

As long as there is war, they dont need to go back to 1967 borders and they dont need to accept UN resolutions.

As long as there is a terrorism threat for them, they can delay leaving any part of land

they are occupying.

They can not sit for peace negatiations while occupying most of  west bank, south labenon etc.

And as long as they are occupying the land they think, they are having more legitimacy there..(Note the last 8 years during Bush administration, USA  spokesmen started to refer ´disputed territories´ as opposed to ´occupied territories´

They are the reasons why they are doing anything to preserve the current statusquo..

 

 

 

94.       Melek74
1506 posts
 02 Feb 2009 Mon 10:17 pm

 

Quoting cynicmystic

I do not know if you are blessed or not, and do not really care. I did not call you an idiot either. However, you did take the liberty of clarifying that for us.

 

What is the problem? Too many facts down where the sun doesn´t shine. What is wrong with the length of my post? Is it the content? If you read what many people post in the politics forum, it is mainly personal insults, half-assed statistics and bogus claims without any supporting evidence other than "I don´t think etc." Taking into consideration that a post half the size of mine usually contains nothing other than accusations, personal vendetta and name-calling on this board, I am actually quite proud of my posts. I do take the time to research the facts to support my arguments, and many people here do not. If waht you were looking for was a post in which someone talks straight out of his ass, then I am afraid you should have by-passed mine.

 

By the way, be honest, did you know about half the shit I wrote in my post about Israeli firms and its economy? Is it that bad for a post to have some substance to its content?

 

 

The problem is not the content of your post, actually I did find it informative and enjoyed reading it. The problem is your incredible arrogance and thinking that you´re smarter than everybody on this forum. You accuse people of being arrogant, ignorant, not capable of making long posts full of trivia info that they copied from other books, you criticize other people´s ability to express themselves in English even though it´s not that person´s first language, and don´t think that you comment about me clarifying that I was an idiot escaped me.

 

That´s the problem! 

 

And no, I didn´t know half the shit that you wrote and like I said I did find it interesting. [1 sentence removed by admin]

 



Edited (2/2/2009) by Melek74
Edited (2/3/2009) by admin [Personal attack]

95.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 02 Feb 2009 Mon 10:57 pm

Trivia info copied from other books? Are you confusing this with the TV show jeopardy? You are the one who posted an arrogant one-sentence reply to my post with a dumbo smiley face presenting flowers. Additionally, you took the liberty of referring to everyone else as "idiots to be enlightened", supposedly by me. I am not here to enlighten people, but to contribute posts of substance rather than venom. If I do strike you as arrogant, it is simply because I am a bit tired of the name-calling forum-board superstars shooting bogus facts out of their asses without ever bothering to offer any sort of evidence. Regarding your wisdom about English not being the first language of the posters, keep in mind that it is not my first language either. It is actually my fifth one. (Here is more arrogance for you, eh!) Speaking English as second language should not mean that people will have the freedom to post garbage. Eveyone can take the little bit of time to give their posts some sort of coherency, a body stating their main points and the evidences supporting those points. Otherwise, we might as well text-message calling each other names rather than waste our times posting on message boards. [1 sentence removed by admin] Post something that I will find reading interesting for a change.

"The problem is not the content of your post, actually I did find it informative and enjoyed reading it. The problem is your incredible arrogance and thinking that you´re smarter than everybody on this forum. You accuse people of being arrogant, ignorant, not capable of making long posts full of trivia info that they copied from other books, you criticize other people´s ability to express themselves in English even though it´s not that person´s first language, and don´t think that you comment about me clarifying that I was an idiot escaped me.

 

That´s the problem! 

 

And no, I didn´t know half the shit that you wrote and like I said I did find it interesting. 



Edited (2/3/2009) by admin [Personal insult]

96.       femmeous
2642 posts
 02 Feb 2009 Mon 11:08 pm

Israel has a diversified, technologically advanced economy with substantial but decreasing government ownership and a strong high-tech sector. The major industrial sectors include high-technology electronic and biomedical equipment, metal products, processed foods, chemicals, and transport equipment. Israel possesses a substantial service sector and is one of the world´s centers for diamond cutting and polishing. It also is a world leader in software development and, prior to the violence that began in September 2000, was a major tourist destination.


Israel´s strong commitment to economic development and its talented work force led to economic growth rates during the nation´s first two decades that frequently exceeded 10% annually. The years after the 1973 Yom Kippur War were a lost decade economically, as growth stalled and inflation reached triple-digit levels. The successful economic stabilization plan implemented in 1985 and the subsequent introduction of market-oriented structural reforms reinvigorated the economy and paved the way for rapid growth in the 1990s.


A wave of Jewish immigration beginning in 1989, predominantly from the countries of the former U.S.S.R., brought nearly a million new citizens to Israel. These new immigrants, many of them highly educated, now constitute some 13% of Israel´s 6.7 million inhabitants. Their successful absorption into Israeli society and its labor force forms a remarkable chapter in Israeli history. The skills brought by the new immigrants and their added demand as consumers gave the Israeli economy a strong upward push and in the 1990’s, they played a key role in the ongoing development of Israel´s high-tech sector.


During the 1990s, progress in the Middle East peace process, beginning with the Madrid Conference of 1991, helped to reduce Israel´s economic isolation from its neighbors and opened up new markets to Israeli exporters farther afield. The peace process stimulated an unprecedented inflow of foreign investment in Israel, and provided a substantial boost to economic growth in the region over the last decade. The onset of the intifada beginning at the end of September of 2000, the downturn in the high-tech sector and Nasdaq crisis, and the slowdown of the global economy have all significantly affected the Israeli economy. However, despite the recent conflicts in Gaza and Lebanon, the Israeli economy grew during 2006.


Israeli companies, particularly in the high-tech area, have in the past enjoyed considerable success raising money on Wall Street and other world financial markets; Israel ranks second to Canada among foreign countries in the number of its companies listed on U.S. stock exchanges. Israel’s tech market is very developed, and in spite of the pause in the industry’s growth, the high-tech sector is likely to be the major driver of the Israeli economy. Almost half of Israel’s exports are high tech. Most leading players, including Intel, IBM, and Cisco have a presence in Israel.


Growth was an exceptional 6.2% in 2000, due in part to a number of one-time high tech acquisitions and investments. This exceptional year was followed by two years of negative growth of -0.9% and -1%, respectively, in 2001 and 2002. As a result of the security situation and the associated downturn in the economy, there was a significant rise in unemployment and wage erosion. This led to a decline in private consumption in 2002, the first time that there had been negative private consumption since the early 1980s. However, following growth rates of 1.7% in 2003 and 4.4% in 2004, the Israeli economy entered into a period of stabilization and recovery after the deep recession of 2001 and 2002. Since then, the Israeli economy seems to have returned to a trend of consistent growth. The Israeli economy grew by 5.2% in 2005 and GDP per capita (U.S. $17,80 increased by 3.3%. The Israeli economy grew by an estimated 4.8% in 2006.

Exports of goods and services in Israel grew by 7% in 2005. Service and agricultural exports each increased by more than 10% in 2005, whereas exports increased by 5.6% and imports rose to 4.4%. Tourism revenues increased by 22.7% as a result of the dramatic increase following the intifada’s subsidence.

Israel’s private consumption increased by 4% in 2005. The largest growth in private consumption was in the purchase of clothing, footwear, and personal effects, which increased by 10.2%, following an increase of 5.4% in 2004. Consumption of consumer durables grew much more slowly than in 2004, with an increase of only 3.4%, compared with 14.3% the previous year.

In the Israeli business sector, business GDP grew by 6.6% in 2005. According to CBS statistics, the transportation, storage, and communications industries grew by 9.2%, following growth of 6.6% in 2004. The GDP of the wholesale, retail, restaurant, and hotel sector increased by 8.1%, up from 6.1% in 2004. The GDP of the finance and business services sector in 2005 increased by 6.4%, up from the previous year’s 6.1% growth rate.

The general consensus among economists is that Israel’s economy is very strong and that its growth potential is in the 4% to 5% range.


The United States is Israel´s largest trading partner. In 2005, two-way trade totaled some $26.6 billion, up 12% from 2004. The U.S. trade deficit with Israel was $7.1 billion in 2005, up 33% from 2004, due largely to rising Israeli exports to the U.S. U.S. exports to Israel rose 6.1% in 2005 to $9.7 billion, making Israel our 19th largest export market for goods. The principal goods exported from the U.S. include civilian aircraft parts, telecommunications equipment, semiconductors, civilian aircraft, electrical apparatus, and computer accessories. Israel´s chief exports to the U.S. include diamonds, pharmaceutical preparations, telecommunications equipment, medicinal equipment, electrical apparatus, and cotton apparel. The two countries signed a free trade agreement (FTA) in 1985 that progressively eliminated tariffs on most goods traded between the two countries over the following 10 years. An agricultural trade accord signed in November 1996 addressed the remaining goods not covered in the FTA but has not entirely erased barriers to trade in the agricultural sector. Israel also has trade and cooperation agreements in place with the European Union, Canada, Mexico, and other countries.


Best prospect industry sectors in Israel for U.S. exporters are electricity and gas equipment, defense equipment, medical instruments and disposable products, industrial chemicals, telecommunication equipment, electronic components, building materials/construction industries (DIY and infrastructure), safety and security equipment and services, non-prescription drugs, travel and tourism services, and computer software.


GDP (2006 est.): $170.3 billion.
Annual growth rate (2006): 4.8%.
Per capita GDP (2006): $26,800.
Currency: Shekel (4.13 shekels = 1 U.S. dollar; 2007 est.).
Natural resources: Copper, phosphate, bromide, potash, clay, sand, sulfur, bitumen, manganese.
Agriculture: Products--citrus and other fruits, vegetables, beef, dairy, and poultry products.
Industry: Types--high-technology projects (including aviation, communications, computer-aided design and manufactures, medical electronics, fiber optics), wood and paper products, potash and phosphates, food, beverages, tobacco, caustic soda, cement, construction, plastics, chemical products, diamond cutting and polishing, metal products, textiles, and footwear.
Trade: Exports (2006 est.)--$42.86 billion. Exports include polished diamonds, electronic communication, medical and scientific equipment, chemicals and chemical products, electronic components and computers, machinery and equipment, transport equipment, rubber, plastics, and textiles. Imports (excluding defense imports, 2006 est.)--$47.8 billion: raw materials, diamonds, energy ships and airplanes, machinery, equipment, land transportation equipment for investment, and consumer goods. Major partners--U.S., U.K., Germany; exports--U.S., Belgium, Hong Kong; imports--U.S., Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, U.K.

97.       CANLI
5084 posts
 02 Feb 2009 Mon 11:13 pm

Ok boys and gals, please modify your posts so it wont contain any swearing words, insults or any like

We all well aware of the rules of the site.

 

And femmeous will you add link to the post, and if you can, repost it with a another font size ´you can use Word´, its too tiny to read.

98.       Melek74
1506 posts
 02 Feb 2009 Mon 11:19 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

Ok boys and gals, please modify your posts so it wont contain any swearing words, insults or any like

We all well aware of the rules of the site.

 

And femmeous will you add link to the post, and if you can, repost it with a another font size ´you can use Word´, its too tiny to read.

 

You´re more than welcome to delete mine. I´ve said what I had to say and it was read by whom it was meant to be read. 

99.       CANLI
5084 posts
 03 Feb 2009 Tue 12:14 am

 

Quoting Melek74

 

 

You´re more than welcome to delete mine. I´ve said what I had to say and it was read by whom it was meant to be read. 

 

Quoting cynicmystic

 Things dont work like that Melek and cynicmystic and you know it too!

Ýf you ´generally´ have a problem with anyone at the forum take it via pm´s and not at the forum.

We here to exchange opinions thoughts, not to fight and insult each other then welcome the post to be deleted !

 

So,Please keep it away from the forum!

100.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 03 Feb 2009 Tue 12:21 am

What are you talking about? How else can I present my opinions other than I already have. I wrote a fine post and people responded. Whether positively or negatively is a different matter. What is this ? Instant messenger? I didn´t ask anything to be deleted either. If someone replies to your post you can reply back. plus, should not the same principles apply to you? You have been having quite a back-n-forth argument with femmeous yourself.

Quoting CANLI

 

 Things dont work like that Melek and cynicmystic and you know it too!

Ýf you ´generally´ have a problem with anyone at the forum take it via pm´s and not at the forum.

We here to exchange opinions thoughts, not to fight and insult each other then welcome the post to be deleted !

 

So,Please keep it away from the forum!

 

 

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