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Why Turkey and the EU need each other
(48 Messages in 5 pages - View all)
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1.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Mar 2009 Sun 12:48 am

It is over 20 years since Turkey first formally applied and Ankara has been warned that it could be a decade or more before the country actually joins. Besides, a few current EU member states, such as Austria and France, have indicated that they are not sure Turkish membership is a good thing anyway.

 

They are wrong. Full and equal membership of the EU will be good for both Europe and Turkey. Economically, the integration of Turkey into the European single market will make the EU a global colossus, a more than effective counterweight to the United States, let alone Japan and most of the major emerging economies. Moreover, the addition of a predominantly young Turkish labor force should be a stimulus to the European economy as it emerges from the current recession, given the ageing of the union´s population as a whole.

 

Politically, the potential gains are at least as important. The EU speaks with one voice not only on trade matters, but on global concerns such as climate change and the promotion of European values like democratic government and human rights. An integrated Turkey, clearly committed to the latter, could make the European Union an immense force for good in the eastern Mediterranean and beyond.

 

The Turkish population and business community will make a substantive leap forward through EU membership, far beyond the benefits of the customs union and other EU-Turkey arrangements currently in place. In particular, people in the less developed regions such as eastern Anatolia will see a whole new world of opportunity opened up, not just through migration but more importantly through the creative deployment of EU funds in the poorer regions themselves.

 

Politically, EU membership should strengthen democracy and human rights inside Turkey. An applicant country has to show that it fulfils stringent political as well as economic conditions in order to qualify -- the so-called Copenhagen criteria....

 

I do not underestimate the challenges ahead for both Turkey and the EU ..... The revelations about aspects of the "deep state" that have come about as the murky deeds of the Ergenekon group have become public are testimony to the scale of some of the problems. Moreover, even when laws are changed, it does not mean that they are immediately or successfully implemented. Crucially, there are still areas of the Turkish Penal Code (TCK) -- not least the notorious Article 301 -- and maybe even the Constitution which require further revision.

 

However, I wonder if some of the opponents of Turkey´s EU membership ....realize the degree to which their negative attitude endangers the process of reform ... When these critics mumble about how they want to keep the EU an overwhelmingly Christian society, they clearly do not know their history (or indeed acknowledge the growth of European secularism over the past century!). ..

.. six decades of membership of the Council of Europe, the Strasbourg-based, continent-wide organization ... Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Turkey is already half-integrated into the institutional architecture of Europe, as well as into the North Atlantic Alliance, through NATO.

 

EU membership is the logical and culminating stage of that bonding process and as such should be facilitated and welcomed by all parties involved.

 

Full article

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=170071

2.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 02:23 pm

It must feel really strange lately when you post stuff like this and nobody replies

 



Edited (3/23/2009) by TheAenigma

3.       TheJanissary
384 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 02:34 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

It must feel really strange lately when you post stuff like this and nobody replies

 

 

 Big smile

4.       lady in red
6947 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 02:36 pm

 

Quoting TheJanissary

 

 

 Big smile

 

 I think you may have lockjaw! 

5.       TheJanissary
384 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 02:44 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 

 

 I think you may have lockjaw! 

 

 and angel of him comes...

6.       lady in red
6947 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 02:54 pm

 

Quoting TheJanissary

 

 

 and angel of him comes...

 

Get a life Janis - nice to see you haven´t forgotten how to write though. ( Oh I just realised you probably didn´t understand my post)



Edited (3/23/2009) by lady in red

7.       TheJanissary
384 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 03:03 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 

 

Get a life Janis - nice to see you haven´t forgotten how to write though. ( Oh I just realised you probably didn´t understand my post)

 

 I wonder why u dont miss anything when somone wrote something about thehandsom

what kind of relation you have with thehandsomeBig smile that  forces you to protect him from every words  will make him sad or unhappy can u tell me if it s not private

 

8.       lady in red
6947 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 03:13 pm

 

Quoting TheJanissary

 

 

 I wonder why u dont miss anything when somone wrote something about thehandsom

what kind of relation you have with thehandsomeBig smile that  forces you to protect him from every words  will make him sad or unhappy can u tell me if it s not private

 

 

Right - in words of one syllable for you:

 

Post 3 - Aenigma posts ´

It must feel really strange lately when you post stuff like this and nobody replies

 

Post 4 - Janissary replies to Aenigma´s post with - Big smile (fixed grin smiley) which he has used in answer to almost every post for the past few days.

 

Post 5 - lady in red replies with - I think you might have lockjaw!  (this is a word for tetanus which is a medical condition which eventually locks the jaw muscles).

 

All completely offtopic to the original post and nothing to do with defending anyone or anything.



Edited (3/23/2009) by lady in red
Edited (3/23/2009) by lady in red
Edited (3/23/2009) by lady in red [complaint from Aenigma]

9.       TheJanissary
384 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 03:38 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 

Quoting TheJanissary

 

 

 I wonder why u dont miss anything when somone wrote something about thehandsom

what kind of relation you have with thehandsomeBig smile that  forces you to protect him from every words  will make him sad or unhappy can u tell me if it s not private

 

 

Right - in words of one syllable for you:

 

Post 3 - Aenigma posts ´

It must feel really strange lately when you post stuff like this and nobody replies

 

Post 4 - Janissary replies to Aenigma´s post with - Big smile (fixed grin smiley) which he has used in answer to almost every post for the past few days.

 

Post 5 - lady in red replies with - I think you might have lockjaw!  (this is a word for tetanus which is a medical condition which eventually locks the jaw muscles).

 

All completely offtopic to the original post and nothing to do with defending anyone or anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 u understand what I mean, stop playing with words

I mean ur general attitude

10.       femmeous
2642 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 03:46 pm

 

Quoting TheJanissary

 

 

 and angel of him comes...

 

 

11.       femmeous
2642 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 03:46 pm

 

Quoting TheJanissary

 

 

 I wonder why u dont miss anything when somone wrote something about thehandsom

what kind of relation you have with thehandsomeBig smile that  forces you to protect him from every words  will make him sad or unhappy can u tell me if it s not private

 

 

 

12.       femmeous
2642 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 03:47 pm

 

Quoting TheJanissary

 

 

 u understand what I mean, stop playing with words

I mean ur general attitude

 

 

13.       TheJanissary
384 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 03:55 pm

 

Quoting femmeous

 

 

 

 

 Big smileBig smileBig smile

14.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 04:01 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 

Quoting TheJanissary

 

 

 I wonder why u dont miss anything when somone wrote something about thehandsom

what kind of relation you have with thehandsomeBig smile that  forces you to protect him from every words  will make him sad or unhappy can u tell me if it s not private

 

 

Right - in words of one syllable for you:

 

Post 3 - Aenigma posts ´

It must feel really strange lately when you post stuff like this and nobody replies

 

Post 4 - Janissary replies to Aenigma´s post with - Big smile (fixed grin smiley) which he has used in answer to almost every post for the past few days.

 

Post 5 - lady in red replies with - I think you might have lockjaw!  (this is a word for tetanus which is a medical condition which eventually locks the jaw muscles).

 

All completely offtopic to the original post and nothing to do with defending anyone or anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Is the space at the bottom for making notes?  Or drawing a doodle?

15.       lady in red
6947 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 04:07 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 

 

 Is the space at the bottom for making notes?  Or drawing a doodle?

 

 Stop picking on me!!  I will get you    I don´t know! What the hell!

16.       femmeous
2642 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 04:09 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 

 

 Stop picking on me!!  I will get you    I don´t know! What the hell!

 

 we are the only to pick on, dear mom. Roll eyes

17.       lady in red
6947 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 04:09 pm

Quoting TheAenigma

 

 

 Is the space at the bottom for making notes?  Or drawing a doodle?

 

Ok I changed it - better now??

18.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 04:10 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

Quoting TheAenigma

 

 

 Is the space at the bottom for making notes?  Or drawing a doodle?

 

Ok I changed it - better now??

 

 No it is NOT

I had written my shopping list on that....!

19.       lady in red
6947 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 04:13 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 

 

 No it is NOT

I had written my shopping list on that....!

 

 Oh God, sorry - why didn´t you say?? 

20.       TheJanissary
384 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 06:04 pm

 

Quoting femmeous

 

 

 we are the only to pick on, dear mom. Roll eyes

 

 what???

is she thehandsom´s mom?

21.       femmeous
2642 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 06:22 pm

 

Quoting TheJanissary

 

 

 what???

is she thehandsom´s mom?

 

 

22.       TheJanissary
384 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 06:25 pm

 

Quoting femmeous

 

 

 

 

 Big smile

23.       TheJanissary
384 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 06:27 pm

 

Quoting femmeous

 

 

 we are the only to pick on, dear mom. Roll eyes

 

 Big smile

24.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Mar 2009 Mon 06:52 pm

 

Quoting TheJanissary

 

 

 I wonder why u dont miss anything when somone wrote something about thehandsom

what kind of relation you have with thehandsomeBig smile that  forces you to protect him from every words  will make him sad or unhappy can u tell me if it s not private

 

 

Ha ha

I dont think anybody has protected or protects me..On the contrary, I think they are trying to protect the site and they are trying to protect  ´you´ from further humuliation.

And of course they are also protecting the turkishness in generic sense which was sort of  taken to the gutters with faul words of yours by deleting them..

So, you should say to her  ´thank you very much LIR´..

25.       libralady
5152 posts
 24 Mar 2009 Tue 12:12 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

It is over 20 years since Turkey first formally applied and Ankara has been warned that it could be a decade or more before the country actually joins. Besides, a few current EU member states, such as Austria and France, have indicated that they are not sure Turkish membership is a good thing anyway.

 

They are wrong. Full and equal membership of the EU will be good for both Europe and Turkey. Economically, the integration of Turkey into the European single market will make the EU a global colossus, a more than effective counterweight to the United States, let alone Japan and most of the major emerging economies. Moreover, the addition of a predominantly young Turkish labor force should be a stimulus to the European economy as it emerges from the current recession, given the ageing of the union´s population as a whole.

 

Politically, the potential gains are at least as important. The EU speaks with one voice not only on trade matters, but on global concerns such as climate change and the promotion of European values like democratic government and human rights. An integrated Turkey, clearly committed to the latter, could make the European Union an immense force for good in the eastern Mediterranean and beyond.

 

The Turkish population and business community will make a substantive leap forward through EU membership, far beyond the benefits of the customs union and other EU-Turkey arrangements currently in place. In particular, people in the less developed regions such as eastern Anatolia will see a whole new world of opportunity opened up, not just through migration but more importantly through the creative deployment of EU funds in the poorer regions themselves.

 

Politically, EU membership should strengthen democracy and human rights inside Turkey. An applicant country has to show that it fulfils stringent political as well as economic conditions in order to qualify -- the so-called Copenhagen criteria....

 

I do not underestimate the challenges ahead for both Turkey and the EU ..... The revelations about aspects of the "deep state" that have come about as the murky deeds of the Ergenekon group have become public are testimony to the scale of some of the problems. Moreover, even when laws are changed, it does not mean that they are immediately or successfully implemented. Crucially, there are still areas of the Turkish Penal Code (TCK) -- not least the notorious Article 301 -- and maybe even the Constitution which require further revision.

 

However, I wonder if some of the opponents of Turkey´s EU membership ....realize the degree to which their negative attitude endangers the process of reform ... When these critics mumble about how they want to keep the EU an overwhelmingly Christian society, they clearly do not know their history (or indeed acknowledge the growth of European secularism over the past century!). ..

.. six decades of membership of the Council of Europe, the Strasbourg-based, continent-wide organization ... Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), Turkey is already half-integrated into the institutional architecture of Europe, as well as into the North Atlantic Alliance, through NATO.

 

EU membership is the logical and culminating stage of that bonding process and as such should be facilitated and welcomed by all parties involved.

 

Full article

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=170071

 

 Apart for a bit of emboldening, is his your opinion?  I am not so sure that this is the case from a pro EU paper I guess.

 

I wonder how Turkey would cope with all the health & safety, employment laws, environmental and human rights legislation that exists in the EU - the cost of implementation would be huge in both economic and human terms.



Edited (3/24/2009) by libralady [Added some bits]

26.       Kaya´08
posts
 29 Mar 2009 Sun 08:49 pm

I think Turkish accession into the EU will be a very positive step. Not only will it provide the framework for us to further adopt a progressive, westernized democracy, but it will provide opportunities for total integration of our society within EU boarders where they have felt like outsiders for years. It will provide opportunities for investment in a country that is growing radically; in a country that has remained the only secular, stable democracy within its region to the East.

Our accession into the EU will further catalyze our already sporadic growth. Investment will double, EU businessmen will come to Turkey and using our unique, versatile resources, provide opportunities for new revolutionary work and businesses, creating more employement and economic stability within the country, giving rise to a generation of Turkish businessmen and entrepeneurs. Turkey is a perfect market. The Turks are modern, well educated, and diverse in culture due to Turkeys population of immigrants from both the west and east which has given Turkish citizens a taste of different cultures from all over the world, not including our large, young and fruitful work force which is vital for business within Turkey and eventually all of Europe (which has a mainly ageing population). The gains on the European side, however, are usually misinterpreted. Some say it will sow together a widening gap of mainly christian to mainly muslim countries, though this is untrue. Turkish society is already mostly intregrated with the west, and though about 90 odd percent of our population is muslim, only 20% of our population is muslim in practice, and not just theory. Countries like Macedonia and Albania who seek membership would likely contribute more in terms of closing a widening gap of mainly muslim to christian countries. The real gains are simple; access to a large diverse Turkish work force, access to the middle east which is vital for Europe as a general power, ability to influence events within the Middle Eastern region, access to a wealth of oil that travel through the bosphorus, and strategic opportunities to defend Europe from hostile islamic states, as well as Iraqi and Afghanistani access via Turkey for the Americans, and easy access to Israel via Turkey. Our large army will further ensure and secure Europes ability to defend itself from neighbouring powers such as Russia, and will help Europe to pursue a goal of one unified European army (i am opposed to such an idea because i am a strong supporter of independence for every state, including its institutions.

 

The down sides are few, but the gains, without a doubt, are largely favourable in terms of Europes future, and its security.

27.       adana
416 posts
 30 Mar 2009 Mon 01:36 am

 

Quoting Kaya´08

I think Turkish accession into the EU will be a very positive step. You think but not all Eu countries taking France as a leading opposer one,not to mention Austria,GermanyNot only will it provide the framework for us to further adopt a progressive, westernized democracy,does Turkey really need such democracy? what does that mean for you?gay and lesbian rights,immigration status,etc...?but it will provide opportunities for total integration of our society ..yeah..new colonisation era...taking over without a war..within EU boarders where they have felt like outsiders for years.Does Turkey need Europe to feel like insiders? It will provide opportunities for investment in a country that is growing radically; in a country that has remained the only secular, stable democracy within its region to the East.Turkey with its attitude to religion secular ..hmmm..like Poland protestant...???

Our accession into the EU will further catalyze our already sporadic growth.Turkey can grow without Eu Investment will double, EU businessmen will come to Turkey..what for...?to make Eu new colony? and using our unique, versatile resources, provide opportunities for new revolutionary work and businesses, creating more employement and economic stability within the country, giving rise to a generation of Turkish businessmen and entrepeneurs.OMG  or Oh my Allah    Turkey must be really a backward country if  unique,versatile resources are planning to overwhelm it....!!!!Turkey is a perfect market. The Turks are modern, well educated, enough educated to see that Eu is an artificial creature which sooner or later collapse.. and diverse in culture due to Turkeys population of immigrants from both the west and east which has given Turkish citizens a taste of different cultures from all over the world, not including our large, young and fruitful work force which is vital for business within Turkey and eventually all of Europe (which has a mainly ageing population). The gains on the European side, however, are usually misinterpreted. Some say it will sow together a widening gap of mainly christian to mainly muslim countries, Turkey has not good ad in europe ,still growing image of islam taking over it..and referring back to Spanish getting rid of Arabs,and scream over islamic values not adequate to christian European values though this is untrue. Turkish society is already mostly intregrated with the west, and though about 90 odd percent of our population is muslim, only 20% of our population is muslim in practice, and not just theory. Countries like Macedonia and Albania who seek membership would likely contribute more in terms of closing a widening gap of mainly muslim to christian countries. The real gains are simple; access to a large diverse Turkish work force, EU is not interested now..has problems with crises and riots against it..Turkey access will deep it,won´t it? access to the middle east which is vital for Europe as a general power, ability to influence events within the Middle Eastern region, access to a wealth of oil that travel through the bosphorus, and strategic opportunities to defend Europe from hostile islamic states, Oh yes..another crusade without sending Europeans,turks will do!as well as Iraqi and Afghanistani access via Turkey for the Americans,  why do americans always have to interfere with foreign affairs of some countries...?and easy access to Israel via Turkey. Our large army will further ensure and secure Europes ability to defend itself from neighbouring powers such as Russia hmmm,is Russia really a threat in this world´s game???doubts,doubts,doubts!!!!, and will help Europe to pursue a goal of one unified European army  and control Turkey as they did not manage at the beginning of 20th century making it another country controlled and submissive to tycoons will..Not possible to part Turkey..let´s make it slave.(i am opposed to such an idea because i am a strong supporter of independence for every state, including its institutions.so why all this crap?

 

The down sides are few, but the gains, without a doubt, are largely favourable in terms of Europes future, and its security.Blah,blah,blah

 

 

28.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 30 Mar 2009 Mon 03:00 am

I wouldn´t mind Turkey´s accession to the EU but I doubt it´s soon possible with the army influence on Turkish democracy, Turkish-Kurish relations and human rights issue. I wonder how true the "Turkey will provide labour force and a breeze of youth into auld ageing Europe" is. For now even that small European population has outgrown the job market and unemployment rates in all EU countries is going up.

29.       TheJanissary
384 posts
 30 Mar 2009 Mon 10:33 am

 

Quoting Daydreamer

I wouldn´t mind Turkey´s accession to the EU but I doubt it´s soon possible with the army influence on Turkish democracy, Turkish-Kurish relations and human rights issue. I wonder how true the "Turkey will provide labour force and a breeze of youth into auld ageing Europe" is. For now even that small European population has outgrown the job market and unemployment rates in all EU countries is going up.

 

 I think the reasons that u wrote are not real reason behind the fact.

if we all solved these problems, do you think they would accept turkey as a member? impossible!

we can become member if EU collapses and if they need turkey immediately.

 to be honest, I dont think any of EU countries would vote for turkey in referendum.

I dont know any Eu country would say "yes" for turkey.

 

 

30.       Kaya´08
posts
 30 Mar 2009 Mon 12:14 pm

First of all Adana, the benefits of Europe are no less beneficial for us if the large European countries are opposed to our entrance or not. At the end of the day, they do not have veto powers to stop our accession, and neither can they alone stop our accession. Plus, we have the backing of Britain which you fail to mention.

 

Of course Turkey needs such a democracy, or have you forgotten the importance of democracy within our independant state? Improvement of democracy means improvement of political freedoms and civil rights for everybody to in joy, be it gay or lesbian, christian, muslim or Jew. How can you even question such a thing? Are you forgetting the work of our founding father?

 

A new colonisation era? Intregrating within a continent of modernized, advanced civilizations in no part entails colonisation. Where have you got this from? Inorder for us to feel like insiders in Europe, changes must be made at home. That includes reforms and modernization within our society. A westernized democracy and society is whats neccessary to make turks feel more at home in Europe, and there failure to integrate into places such as Germany is evident our society is not as modern as we should be. Therefore, yes, feeling at home in Europe is neccessary.

 

Though you state quiet correctly turkey can grow without Europe, you clearly have little idea on the workings or point of the EU. If we compared Turkey to how it is now, to what a European Turkey could be like, you"ll notice statistically Turkey will have a much bigger potential of becoming a power within Europe, and a bigger one.

 

EU new colony? You lack of knowledge on the union is evident in your statements. Infact its pretty amusing. I wont even referr to your other comments on european crusaders or european collapse as you english is so aweful i cant understand fully what you said. Clearly your backward mentality is preventing you from seeing Turkey needs the EU to modernize, and progess, something you obviously do not wish turkey to do.

 

Thanks for your childish comeback at my posts, im hopeful ill hear more in the future

31.       adana
416 posts
 30 Mar 2009 Mon 01:31 pm

 

Quoting Kaya´08

First of all Adana, the benefits of Europe are no less beneficial for us if the large European countries are opposed to our entrance or not. At the end of the day, they do not have veto powers to stop our accession have you ever thought that in case of referendum veto will increase?, and neither can they alone stop our accession. Plus, we have the backing of Britain which you fail to mention.And the support of Poland,which you fail to mention as well

 

Of course Turkey needs such a democracy, or have you forgotten the importance of democracy within our independant state? Improvement of democracy means improvement of political freedoms and civil rights for everybody to in joy, be it gay or lesbian, christian, muslim or Jew. How can you even question such a thing? Are you forgetting the work of our founding father?Never but how can mentality of religious people suddenly trigger secular thinking?

 

A new colonisation era? Intregrating within a continent of modernized, advanced civilizations in no part entails colonisation. Where have you got this from? Inorder for us to feel like insiders in Europe, changes must be made at home.  I Always kept on repeating that Turkey has enough power itself to make all neccessary changes That includes reforms and modernization within our society. A westernized democracy and society is whats neccessary to make turks feel more at home in Europe, and there failure to integrate into places such as Germany is evident our society is not as modern as we should be. Therefore, yes, feeling at home in Europe is neccessary. Isn´t it general attitude to Turkey in Europe that makes you not feeling at home?

 

Though you state quiet correctly turkey can grow without Europe, you clearly have little idea on the workings or point of the EU. If we compared Turkey to how it is now, to what a European Turkey could be like, you"ll notice statistically Turkey will have a much bigger potential of becoming a power within Europe, and a bigger one. I noticed ,and also noticed European fear of it

 

EU new colony? You lack of knowledge on the union is evident in your statements. I live in Eu member state,seeing benefits and drawbacks for our economy.Infact its pretty amusing.  Thank you -it was my goal to amuse I wont even referr to your other comments on european crusaders  I only wonder if Turks like  their land  being bought by foreigners?or european collapse-13 American states also wants  sovereignty,just a thought.. as you english is so aweful yours is awesome)i cant understand fully what you said. Clearly your backward mentality ....ouch) I will melt if you call me a nationalist is preventing you from seeing Turkey needs the EU to modernize, and progess, something you obviously do not wish turkey to do.You jump into conclusions very fast ,unfortunately wrong ones.I did not say or even had the slightest idea that Turkey should not modernise and progress.Personally I am for Turkey in EU,free travelling ,work access and settlement. I am only trying to show general European  biased tendency against its access.You follow euphoria of EU committee distracted a bit now by the Czech Republic goverment crisis.

Are you blind not to see that in Europe Turkey is considered Asian,Islamic ,backward country by ordinary  Europeans if you like it or not and media do not create positive picture of Turkey.

Just to your knowledge I strongly oppose such thinking but ppl who think Turkey should be part of EU are in minority.

 Thanks for your childish comeback at my posts, im hopeful ill hear more in the future

you wish you have)

BTW welcome to TCL again)

and have a nice day!

 

 

32.       Kaya´08
posts
 30 Mar 2009 Mon 01:54 pm

If you look at turkish areas in Europe, such as Berlin and certain parts of Belgium, you´ll realize integration has failed significantly; this isnt because of European attitudes alone, but the Turks feeling like outsiders in Europe, because of our politics in Turkey which has not yet fully integrated with Europe (which affects society, and its ability to integrate with the rest of Europe and taditional European society which Turkey has yet to evolve).

 

Only the large European economies, with the exception of Britain, see Turkey´s admission as a threat, because they know once Turkey gets in, all the investment will be redirected to Turkey and countries like France and Germany, and Spain, will mainly miss out on it. Of course, they also have a fair for muslim countries although thats nothing to worry about considering Turkey´s mild approach to the religion (and again, only 20% of all those in Turkey actually practise islam, and 90% claim there muslim).

My friend, im British, i was born in England and i continue to live there, and i am European. Take my word for it.

Joining the European union is not selling Turkey. Yes, some soviergn will be compromised, but to a minimal effect, and Turkey does not need to cooperate with the union if its will is against it. It can also pull out if it believes the EU is a threat to our independance.

 

You right, however, that there is a painted picture of Turkey being somewhat backwards at times. However, our influence in the region has grown dramatically, and its become evident everywhere that people have realized Turkey´s true economic potential and growth, abroad and in Europe. To say Turkey is a Asian country is a gross misconclusion, considering its actually Caucasian, Eurasian and Mediterranean. And secondly, just open your eyes a bit. The media over the past year have painted very positive images of Turkey, especially since the Obama administration. Turkeys image at home and abroad is evolving, and very dramatically. 

Evidence of this can be seen in Europe too, who made a recent announcement that Turkey, Macedonia and Croatia are on track for gaining membership.

 

http://arama.hurriyet.com.tr/arsivnews.aspx?id=11310897

 

With normalization effors going on at Yerevan, the Nabucco gas line, our efforts in NATO, iraq, and Afghanistan,  we are proving a huge success in the international community, and the end to the made up typical image of Turkey being an uneducated muslim nation somewhere in the ME

33.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 30 Mar 2009 Mon 06:08 pm

 

Quoting Kaya´08

My friend, im British, i was born in England and i continue to live there, and i am European. Take my word for it.

 

 I am very surprised to hear this

The phraseology and grammar in your posts are NOT native English...

34.       adana
416 posts
 30 Mar 2009 Mon 07:50 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 

 

 I am very surprised to hear this

The phraseology and grammar in your posts are NOT native English...

 

 Are we all hoodwinked into believing ?or perhaps Mr/Mrs Kaya leads us all up the garden path?Unsure

35.       alameda
3499 posts
 30 Mar 2009 Mon 08:15 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 

 

 I am very surprised to hear this

The phraseology and grammar in your posts are NOT native English...

 

 I noticed that too. It seems there is something in the name that is creating an error. There is a member called kaya and this one Kaya´08...different members.



Edited (3/30/2009) by alameda [spell]

36.       libralady
5152 posts
 30 Mar 2009 Mon 08:42 pm

 

Quoting Daydreamer

I wouldn´t mind Turkey´s accession to the EU but I doubt it´s soon possible with the army influence on Turkish democracy, Turkish-Kurish relations and human rights issue. I wonder how true the "Turkey will provide labour force and a breeze of youth into auld ageing Europe" is. For now even that small European population has outgrown the job market and unemployment rates in all EU countries is going up.

 

 Have to totaly agree with you on this, considering that Romania and Bulgaria are still under labour movement restrictions and will remain so for the next few years.  I was on a committee (in the UK to look at removing restrictions here) recently where this was debated in relation to construction, and our recommendation was that the restriction should be lifted more over due to the vulnerability of the workforce that these restrictions create in health & safety terms, but the government did not take our recommendations seriously and carried on with the restrictions.

 

No country in the current EU will allow Turkey´s population freedom of movment across the EU whilst it is in the grips of a severe recession.

 

But looking at it conversely, would Turkey allow freedom of labour movement into Turkey and other Eruopeans taking Turkish jobs in the tourist industry for instance? 



Edited (3/30/2009) by libralady [Added a sentance]

37.       Kaya´08
posts
 30 Mar 2009 Mon 09:37 pm

 

Quoting alameda

 

 

 I noticed that too. It seems there is something in the name that is creating an error. There is a member called kaya and this one Kaya´08...different members.

 

No...i signed up for the first time a few days ago, and yes, i am native to Britian. Any more insignificant opinions you´d like to share?

38.       lady in red
6947 posts
 30 Mar 2009 Mon 10:25 pm

 

Quoting alameda

 

 

 I noticed that too. It seems there is something in the name that is creating an error. There is a member called kaya and this one Kaya´08...different members.

 

Yes Alameda there does appear to be a problem where 2 members profiles seem to have merged.  If you click on Kaya´08´s name in any forum post you get the details for Kaya...but if you click on his name in the User Statistics panel you get details for Kaya´08.  I have reported it to main Admin to see if he can fix it.

39.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 30 Mar 2009 Mon 10:48 pm

 

Quoting Kaya´08

 

 

No...i signed up for the first time a few days ago, and yes, i am native to Britian. Any more insignificant opinions you´d like to share?

 

 Why is your grammar and phraseology so "unEnglish" then?   Sorry for my insignificant opinon...

40.       adana
416 posts
 30 Mar 2009 Mon 11:17 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 

 

 Why is your grammar and phraseology so "unEnglish" then?   Sorry for my insignificant opinon...

 

 why are you picking on AE?

Can´t you recognize this Euroasian,Caucasian,Balkan,Mediterranean,native to Britain pidgin?WinkSorry for another insignificant opinion.....



Edited (3/30/2009) by adana
Edited (3/30/2009) by adana [just teasing) is it clear enough for LIR???]

41.       lady in red
6947 posts
 30 Mar 2009 Mon 11:45 pm

 

Quoting adana

 

 

 why are you picking on AE?

Can´t you recognize this Euroasian,Caucasian,Balkan,Mediterranean,native to Britain pidgin?WinkSorry for another insignificant opinion.....

 

You think Kaya´08´s English sounds like pidgin English?????  How very strange  Unsure - or maybe I misunderstood your comment.

42.       adana
416 posts
 30 Mar 2009 Mon 11:55 pm

 

Quoting lady in red

 

 

You think Kaya´08´s English sounds like pidgin English?????  How very strange  Unsure - or maybe I misunderstood your comment.

 

 Of course you DID misunderstand)

43.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 31 Mar 2009 Tue 12:06 am

 

Quoting libralady

 

 

1) No country in the current EU will allow Turkey´s population freedom of movment across the EU whilst it is in the grips of a severe recession.

 

2) But looking at it conversely, would Turkey allow freedom of labour movement into Turkey and other Eruopeans taking Turkish jobs in the tourist industry for instance? 

 

1) Exactly, especially those like the UK or Eire with great social benefits for families with children

2) This one´s made me laugh - just picture those dudu-driven Brits and Amerikans moving to Turkey. There´d be a need to restore polygamy as some westerners will share a few dudus lol Picture that happy family with a dudu in the middle lol

44.       libralady
5152 posts
 31 Mar 2009 Tue 12:12 am

 

Quoting Daydreamer

 

 

1) Exactly, especially those like the UK or Eire with great social benefits for families with children

2) This one´s made me laugh - just picture those dudu-driven Brits and Amerikans moving to Turkey. There´d be a need to restore polygamy as some westerners will share a few dudus lol Picture that happy family with a dudu in the middle lol

 

 You can just picture it now, all those young, love struct girlies wanting to work in the tourist resorts, foam parties, pub crawls and the like............. uhmmmmm somehow I don´t think so <img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'>

45.       Kaya´08
posts
 31 Mar 2009 Tue 12:26 pm

 

Quoting adana

 

 

 why are you picking on AE?

Can´t you recognize this Euroasian,Caucasian,Balkan,Mediterranean,native to Britain pidgin?WinkSorry for another insignificant opinion.....

 

Thats okay friend

46.       femmeous
2642 posts
 02 Apr 2009 Thu 12:38 am

 

Quoting Kaya´08

 

 

Thats okay friend

 

 dear friend, can you change your nick by obtaining a new account or something?

47.       adana
416 posts
 02 Apr 2009 Thu 04:15 am

Laugh atohhh femme do not rant....he prefers me not you))Ninjait must be your soup .....!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Quoting femmeous

 

 

 dear friend, can you change your nick by obtaining a new account or something?

 

 

48.       Platschu
29 posts
 05 Sep 2009 Sat 07:46 pm

I read a Hungarian article about Ahmet Davutoðlu´s politic. I am so happy to see that Turkey began to walk on the right way. The Kurd and Armenian questions have to be answered, if Turkey wants to join EU. When I walked in Istanbul, I could feel it already did, because I had a so positive experience about the Turkish people. Istanbul was a very modern city and they could keep the old Turkish culture as well. If I couldn´t see the advertisements in Turkish language, I could feel I was in Spain or Italy. But I saw the bright side of Turkey, so I wish they could find a permanent solution and they could sign peace with the neighbours and minorities at the east borders.

 

On the other hand, I am not so sure you will win with the EU connection. You can work more easier in West European countries, but I fear the richer EU companies will buy everything in Turkey as they did in Hungary. And you have to controll the borders even harder, because so many immigrants will come from Middle Asia.

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