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gidip dönüp ?
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1. |
27 Sep 2009 Sun 08:43 am |
Hi,
What does it mean whenever there is a p at the end of a verb like the "gidip" or "dönüp" i have seen it a couple of times but can´t figure it out. Is it a kind of participle or what?
thanks
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2. |
27 Sep 2009 Sun 08:53 am |
Hi,
What does it mean whenever there is a p at the end of a verb like the "gidip" or "dönüp" i have seen it a couple of times but can´t figure it out. Is it a kind of participle or what?
thanks
In Turkish, I think it works like this (from what I have seen in my books and my learnning so far):
The -ip -üp -up -ýp suffixes actually are put at the end of a verb when there are two or more verbs. Then, only the last verb takes the tense and the mark of the person.
An example: ´biz Kapalý Çarþýya gidip, halýcýya girip, halýya baktýk´.
We went to the Kapalý Çarþý, went to a carpet seller, looked at carpets.
In this example, only the last verb takes the mark of the past tense and 1st person plural.
However, my own understanding of the rule and the explanation I am giving might be too simple or wrong, only learner.
Please wait for more advanced learners or native speakers to complete this. Thanks.
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3. |
27 Sep 2009 Sun 08:57 am |
thanks a lot
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4. |
29 Sep 2009 Tue 10:31 am |
I am only a learner, but Bea Blanchi´s explanation is correct. One more thing - it is only used if the verbs are the same tense and if the subject is the same.
Edited (9/29/2009) by fico
[if, not it]
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5. |
29 Sep 2009 Tue 11:19 am |
I am only a learner, but Bea Blanchi´s explanation is correct. One more thing - it is only used if the verbs are the same tense and if the subject is the same.
Thank fico for adding this, I had forgotten!
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6. |
29 Sep 2009 Tue 11:25 am |
You dont use it in this case:
we will go home and I will work. = Eve döneceðiz ve çalýþacaðým.
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7. |
29 Sep 2009 Tue 01:18 pm |
I had this explained to me once as similar to an English sentence saying:
I am writing Turkish and I am reading Turkish and I am speaking Turkish.
In English we would shorten this to:
I am writing, reading and speaking Turkish. (ie dropping some of the "I am"s)
Similarly in Turkish you wouldn´t say:
Türkçe yazýyorum ve Türkçe okuyorum ve Türkçe konuþuyorum.
I think it becomes:
Türkçe yazýp okuyup konuþuyorum (again dropping the ´I am/um´ and also the ´...ing/uyor´
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8. |
29 Sep 2009 Tue 06:29 pm |
We use suffix –ip
1) when the subject performs two actions in one sentence.
Gittim. Gördüm. (two sentences)
Gittim ve gördüm. (one sentence with the conjunction ve)
Gidip gördüm. (one sentence with the suffix -ip)
Note that when the first verb takes the suffix –ip, the second one remains as it is.
You should keep in mind that it is not proper to use the suffix –ip more than once in a sentence:
So, instead of “Türkçe yazýp okuyup konuþuyorum” it is more proper to say “Türkçe yazýyor, okuyor ve konuþuyorum”
And
´biz Kapalý Çarþýya gidip, halýcýya girip, halýya baktýk´ should be said as follows:
Biz Kapalý Çarþý’ya gittik, bir halýcýya girip halýlara baktýk.
2) in place of the suffix –ince.
Gidince göreceksin.
Gidip göreceksin.
Note that they are not always interchangeable.
3) (verb+ip) + dur => keep + (verb+ing)
Gülüp durma – don’t keep laughing
Bütün gün aðlayýp durdu – s/he kept crying all day long
Erkek arkadaþýndan þikayet edip duruyor - She keeps complaining about her boyfriend
Edited (9/29/2009) by upsy_daisy
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9. |
30 Sep 2009 Wed 07:49 am |
We use suffix –ip
1) when the subject performs two actions in one sentence.
Gittim. Gördüm. (two sentences)
Gittim ve gördüm. (one sentence with the conjunction ve)
Gidip gördüm. (one sentence with the suffix -ip)
Note that when the first verb takes the suffix –ip, the second one remains as it is.
You should keep in mind that it is not proper to use the suffix –ip more than once in a sentence:
I don´t see any problem with twice
Gidip gelip birþeyler atýþtýrýyor.
Bakýp bakýp duruyor ama birþey demiyor.
Merdivenler inip çýkýp duruyor.
So, instead of “Türkçe yazýp okuyup konuþuyorum” it is more proper to say “Türkçe yazýyor, okuyor ve konuþuyorum”
In colloquial language we don´t use "ve" much and prefer shorter forms. I would say it as
Türkçe yazar, okur, konuþurum.
And
´biz Kapalý Çarþýya gidip, halýcýya girip, halýya baktýk´ should be said as follows:
Biz Kapalý Çarþý’ya gittik, bir halýcýya girip halýlara baktýk.
2) in place of the suffix –ince.
Gidince göreceksin.
Gidip göreceksin.
Note that they are not always interchangeable.
3) (verb+ip) + dur => keep + (verb+ing)
Gülüp durma – don’t keep laughing
Bütün gün aðlayýp durdu – s/he kept crying all day long
Erkek arkadaþýndan þikayet edip duruyor - She keeps complaining about her boyfriend
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10. |
30 Sep 2009 Wed 09:01 am |
Thank you upsy daisy and si++ for explaining this further. It is very helpful for all learners.
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11. |
30 Sep 2009 Wed 05:04 pm |
We use suffix –ip
1) when the subject performs two actions in one sentence.
Gittim. Gördüm. (two sentences)
Gittim ve gördüm. (one sentence with the conjunction ve)
Gidip gördüm. (one sentence with the suffix -ip)
Note that when the first verb takes the suffix –ip, the second one remains as it is.
You should keep in mind that it is not proper to use the suffix –ip more than once in a sentence:
I don´t see any problem with twice
Gidip gelip birþeyler atýþtýrýyor.
Bakýp bakýp duruyor ama birþey demiyor.
Merdivenler inip çýkýp duruyor.
I can understand you not seeing any problem with "twice". After all it´s your choice (and I am not a "language police").It is free to use -ip many times in a sentence (you won´t be punished for this,but "this" will punish you)...And I would like to inform you that the examples you gave are phrases or idioms and they have nothing to do with the rule.Let us have an example as follows:
Eve dönüp odama girip bilgisayarýmý açýp internete girdim.
Do you think using so much -ip in one sentence sounds nice?
So, instead of “Türkçe yazýp okuyup konuþuyorum” it is more proper to say “Türkçe yazýyor, okuyor ve konuþuyorum”
In colloquial language we don´t use "ve" much and prefer shorter forms. I would say it as
Türkçe yazar, okur, konuþurum.
Well, I respect your choice respect mine.However, I still recommend you to use ve before the last word. Believe me it sounds better.
And
´biz Kapalý Çarþýya gidip, halýcýya girip, halýya baktýk´ should be said as follows:
Biz Kapalý Çarþý’ya gittik, bir halýcýya girip halýlara baktýk.
2) in place of the suffix –ince.
Gidince göreceksin.
Gidip göreceksin.
Note that they are not always interchangeable.
3) (verb+ip) + dur => keep + (verb+ing)
Gülüp durma – don’t keep laughing
Bütün gün aðlayýp durdu – s/he kept crying all day long
Erkek arkadaþýndan þikayet edip duruyor - She keeps complaining about her boyfriend
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12. |
30 Sep 2009 Wed 07:41 pm |
We use suffix –ip
1) when the subject performs two actions in one sentence.
Gittim. Gördüm. (two sentences)
Gittim ve gördüm. (one sentence with the conjunction ve)
Gidip gördüm. (one sentence with the suffix -ip)
Note that when the first verb takes the suffix –ip, the second one remains as it is.
You should keep in mind that it is not proper to use the suffix –ip more than once in a sentence:
I don´t see any problem with twice
Gidip gelip birþeyler atýþtýrýyor.
Bakýp bakýp duruyor ama birþey demiyor.
Merdivenler inip çýkýp duruyor.
I can understand you not seeing any problem with "twice". After all it´s your choice (and I am not a "language police").It is free to use -ip many times in a sentence (you won´t be punished for this,but "this" will punish you)...And I would like to inform you that the examples you gave are phrases or idioms and they have nothing to do with the rule.Let us have an example as follows:
Eve dönüp odama girip bilgisayarýmý açýp internete girdim.
Do you think using so much -ip in one sentence sounds nice?
It sounds OK to me. I understand that it may not sound OK to you.
So, instead of “Türkçe yazýp okuyup konuþuyorum” it is more proper to say “Türkçe yazýyor, okuyor ve konuþuyorum”
In colloquial language we don´t use "ve" much and prefer shorter forms. I would say it as
Türkçe yazar, okur, konuþurum.
Well, I respect your choice respect mine.However, I still recommend you to use ve before the last word. Believe me it sounds better.
We don´t use "ve" that much and believe me I prefer "ve"-less version (with the help of some intonation) when speaking. Yeah when writing , "ve" may pop up there.
And
´biz Kapalý Çarþýya gidip, halýcýya girip, halýya baktýk´ should be said as follows:
Biz Kapalý Çarþý’ya gittik, bir halýcýya girip halýlara baktýk.
2) in place of the suffix –ince.
Gidince göreceksin.
Gidip göreceksin.
Note that they are not always interchangeable.
3) (verb+ip) + dur => keep + (verb+ing)
Gülüp durma – don’t keep laughing
Bütün gün aðlayýp durdu – s/he kept crying all day long
Erkek arkadaþýndan þikayet edip duruyor - She keeps complaining about her boyfriend
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13. |
01 Oct 2009 Thu 02:10 am |
si++, your replies prove nothing.While I am talking about commonly accepted general rules and principals, you are talking about your style of speaking Turkish.Even if I don´t approve it, I do respect your style.You can use -ip as many time as you want in a sentence (not minding to be the only one who does it), or avoid from using ve (with the help of some intonation/BTW I wonder what is wrong with using ve). After all,it is up to you, not anyone else, but, according to my point of view, a language having no conjunction ve/and/und etc, is lame.
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14. |
01 Oct 2009 Thu 06:40 am |
si++, your replies prove nothing.While I am talking about commonly accepted general rules and principals, you are talking about your style of speaking Turkish.Even if I don´t approve it, I do respect your style.You can use -ip as many time as you want in a sentence (not minding to be the only one who does it), or avoid from using ve (with the help of some intonation/BTW I wonder what is wrong with using ve). After all,it is up to you, not anyone else, but, according to my point of view, a language having no conjunction ve/and/und etc, is lame.
OK. So you mean it was lame before we imported it from Arabic? "Ve" is not needed in Turkish as in other languages. Turkish has other means (-ip is one of them, ile is another, intonation can be used in colloquial language). I bet there are native speakers (those who are illeterate) out there who have never used "ve" in their lifetime. And I myself (who is a literate person) rarely use it if not at all. And I think it´s a fact (I have not a proof of it but it´s my observation) that "ve" is used much less in collequial language.
I guess we should agree on disagreeing on this issue.
Edited (10/1/2009) by si++
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15. |
01 Oct 2009 Thu 12:00 pm |
Thanks for the topic, I also was wondering about this. About "ve"... I noticed that it isnt used much in everyday language, even when I use it myself I feel strange and feel that native speakers dont see it as "normal sounding". But I am a beginner and for now to say "ve" is easier for me.
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16. |
02 Oct 2009 Fri 04:08 pm |
OK. So you mean it was lame before we imported it from Arabic? "Ve" is not needed in Turkish as in other languages. Turkish has other means (-ip is one of them, ile is another, intonation can be used in colloquial language). I bet there are native speakers (those who are illeterate) out there who have never used "ve" in their lifetime. And I myself (who is a literate person) rarely use it if not at all. And I think it´s a fact (I have not a proof of it but it´s my observation) that "ve" is used much less in collequial language.
I guess we should agree on disagreeing on this issue.
If you are talking about those folks who are illiterate and use a limitted language, or literate but use a trite or poor language, thenyes, you are right. It appears likely that we are talking about different things. Our colloquial language,in general, is limited up to 300 or 350 words (or make it 500 including taboo words), and full of common errors* that some are really ridiculous(örneðin mesela, nüans farký, alternatif seçenekler**,etc.). So, my guide to the Turkish Language is not illiterates nor those who are literate but ignorant.(Of course,I don´t mean you.)
I may guess you like N.Hikmet´s poems.
MEMLEKETÃMÃ SEVÃYORUM
Memleketimi seviyorum : Çýnarlarýnda kolan vurdum, hapisanelerinde yattým. Hiçbir þey gidermez iç sýkýntýmý memleketimin þarkýlarý ve tütünü gibi.
Memleketim : Bedreddin, Sinan, Yunus Emre ve Sakarya, kurþun kubbeler ve fabrika bacalarý benim o kendi kendinden bile gizleyerek sarkýk býyýklarý altýndan gülen halkýmýn eseridir.
Memleketim. Memleketim ne kadar geniþ : dolaþmakla bitmez, tükenmez gibi geliyor insana. Edirne, Ãzmir, Ulukýþla, Maraþ, Trabzon, Erzurum. Erzurum yaylasýný yalnýz türkülerinden tanýyorum ve güneye pamuk iþleyenlere gitmek için Toroslardan bir kerre olsun geçemedim diye utanýyorum.
Memleketim : develer, tren, Ford arabalarý ve hasta eþekler, kavak söðüt ve kýrmýzý toprak.
Memleketim. Çam ormanlarýný, en tatlý sularý ve dað baþý göllerini seven alabalýk ve onun yarým kiloluðu pulsuz, gümüþ derisinde kýzýltýlarla Bolu´nun Abant gölünde yüzer.
Memleketim : Ankara ovasýnda keçiler : kumral, ipekli, uzun kürklerin pýrýldamasý. Yaðlý, aðýr fýndýðý Giresun´un. Al yanaklý mis gibi kokan Amasya elmasý, zeytin incir kavun ve renk renk salkým salkým üzümler ve sonra karasaban ve sonra kara sýðýr ve sonra : ileri, güzel, iyi her þeyi hayran bir çocuk sevinciyle kabule hazýr çalýþkan, namuslu, yiðit insanlarým yarý aç, yarý tok yarý esir...
Remove the ve-s from the poem and see if -ip or ile could save it from becoming dry...
*for example, "bu sayede" and "bu yüzden" are not interchangeable but you can find them interchangeable in colloquial language.
**I heard it from a speaker on TV. (Kanal D)
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17. |
02 Oct 2009 Fri 04:54 pm |
If you are talking about those folks who are illiterate and use a limitted language, or literate but use a trite or poor language, thenyes, you are right. It appears likely that we are talking about different things. Our colloquial language,in general, is limited up to 300 or 350 words (or make it 500 including taboo words), and full of common errors* that some are really ridiculous(örneðin mesela, nüans farký, alternatif seçenekler**,etc.). So, my guide to the Turkish Language is not illiterates nor those who are literate but ignorant.(Of course,I don´t mean you.)
I may guess you like N.Hikmet´s poems.
MEMLEKETÃMÃ SEVÃYORUM
Memleketimi seviyorum : Çýnarlarýnda kolan vurdum, hapisanelerinde yattým. Hiçbir þey gidermez iç sýkýntýmý memleketimin þarkýlarý ve tütünü gibi.
Memleketim : Bedreddin, Sinan, Yunus Emre ve Sakarya, kurþun kubbeler ve fabrika bacalarý benim o kendi kendinden bile gizleyerek sarkýk býyýklarý altýndan gülen halkýmýn eseridir.
Memleketim. Memleketim ne kadar geniþ : dolaþmakla bitmez, tükenmez gibi geliyor insana. Edirne, Ãzmir, Ulukýþla, Maraþ, Trabzon, Erzurum. Erzurum yaylasýný yalnýz türkülerinden tanýyorum ve güneye pamuk iþleyenlere gitmek için Toroslardan bir kerre olsun geçemedim diye utanýyorum.
Memleketim : develer, tren, Ford arabalarý ve hasta eþekler, kavak söðüt ve kýrmýzý toprak.
Memleketim. Çam ormanlarýný, en tatlý sularý ve dað baþý göllerini seven alabalýk ve onun yarým kiloluðu pulsuz, gümüþ derisinde kýzýltýlarla Bolu´nun Abant gölünde yüzer.
Memleketim : Ankara ovasýnda keçiler : kumral, ipekli, uzun kürklerin pýrýldamasý. Yaðlý, aðýr fýndýðý Giresun´un. Al yanaklý mis gibi kokan Amasya elmasý, zeytin incir kavun ve renk renk salkým salkým üzümler ve sonra karasaban ve sonra kara sýðýr ve sonra : ileri, güzel, iyi her þeyi hayran bir çocuk sevinciyle kabule hazýr çalýþkan, namuslu, yiðit insanlarým yarý aç, yarý tok yarý esir...
Remove the ve-s from the poem and see if -ip or ile could save it from becoming dry...
*for example, "bu sayede" and "bu yüzden" are not interchangeable but you can find them interchangeable in colloquial language.
**I heard it from a speaker on TV. (Kanal D)
My point is that illiterate persons are not exposed to loans in the written language. So they don´t use this alien feature at all.
I like Yunus Emre. Could you find any "ve" in his poems?
Ben yürürüm yana yana Aþk boyadý beni kana Ne deliyem ne divane Gel gör beni aþk neyledi Gah eserim yeller gibi Gah tozarým yollar gibi Gah akarým seller gibi Gel gör beni aþk neyledi Akar sularýn çaðlarým Dertli ciðerim daðlarým Þeyhim anuban aðlarým Gel gör beni aþk neyledi Ya elim al kaldýr beni Ya vaslýna erdir beni Çok aðlattin güldür beni Gel gör beni aþk neyledi Ben yururum ilden ile Seyh anarim dilden dile Gurbette halim kim bile Gel gör beni ask neyledi Mecnun oluban yürürüm O yari düþte görürüm Uyanýp melul olurum Gel gör beni aþk neyledi Miskin YUNUS biçareyim Baþtan ayaða yareyim Dost elinde avareyim Gel gör beni aþk neyledi
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18. |
02 Oct 2009 Fri 04:57 pm |
Thanks for the topic, I also was wondering about this. About "ve"... I noticed that it isnt used much in everyday language, even when I use it myself I feel strange and feel that native speakers dont see it as "normal sounding". But I am a beginner and for now to say "ve" is easier for me.
Thank you for sharing this observation. It´s amazing (for me at least) that non-native speakers can see it as well.
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19. |
30 Nov 2009 Mon 05:15 am |
My point is that illiterate persons are not exposed to loans in the written language. So they don´t use this alien feature at all.
I like Yunus Emre. Could you find any "ve" in his poems?
Ben yürürüm yana yana Aşk boyadı beni kana Ne deliyem ne divane Gel gör beni aşk neyledi Gah eserim yeller gibi Gah tozarım yollar gibi Gah akarım seller gibi Gel gör beni aşk neyledi Akar suların çağlarım Dertli ciğerim dağlarım Şeyhim anuban ağlarım Gel gör beni aşk neyledi Ya elim al kaldır beni Ya vaslına erdir beni Çok ağlattin güldür beni Gel gör beni aşk neyledi Ben yururum ilden ile Seyh anarim dilden dile Gurbette halim kim bile Gel gör beni ask neyledi Mecnun oluban yürürüm O yari düşte görürüm Uyanıp melul olurum Gel gör beni aşk neyledi Miskin YUNUS biçareyim Baştan ayağa yareyim Dost elinde avareyim Gel gör beni aşk neyledi
Make sense si++, there is no ve but still 17 loanwords (32%):
aşk- arabic-noun
divane – persian- adj.
gah – persian – adverb
dert- persian – noun
ciğer – persian- noun
şeyh- arabic-noun
ya-persian-particle
gurbet-arabic-noun
hal-arabic-noun
mecnun – arabic- adj.
yar – persian - noun
melul – arabic – adj.
miskin-arabic-adj.
biçare – persian- adj.
dost-persian-noun
avare- persian – adj.
vasl- arabic- adj.
Do you think he didn’t use ve with the same reason as yours?
My example was quite different from yours. Did I say every poem must have ve in it? What I said was that if you removed ve-s from that poem,it would be dried.Right? You are confusing things a little perhaps?
It is clear that you don’t know much about loanwords in Turkish.
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20. |
30 Nov 2009 Mon 05:25 am |
This has been well explained but it goes like this whack the suffix ´ip´ on the end of a word carry one and the ´ip´ part basically replaces the ´ve´ part good luck
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21. |
30 Nov 2009 Mon 10:37 am |
Make sense si++, there is no ve but still 17 loanwords (32%):
aşk- arabic-noun
divane – persian- adj.
gah – persian – adverb
dert- persian – noun
ciğer – persian- noun
şeyh- arabic-noun
ya-persian-particle
gurbet-arabic-noun
hal-arabic-noun
mecnun – arabic- adj.
yar – persian - noun
melul – arabic – adj.
miskin-arabic-adj.
biçare – persian- adj.
dost-persian-noun
avare- persian – adj.
vasl- arabic- adj.
Do you think he didn’t use ve with the same reason as yours?
My example was quite different from yours. Did I say every poem must have ve in it? What I said was that if you removed ve-s from that poem,it would be dried.Right? You are confusing things a little perhaps?
It is clear that you don’t know much about loanwords in Turkish.
So what? I mentioned Yunus Emre because he used the collequial language mostly in his poems. He may have used many loan words but not any "ve" at all.
Anothere example is Aşık Veysel. Can you find any "ve" in his poems?
And by the way you can have no idea of how much I know about loanwords in Turkish. I am curious of what makes you think you know more than me. Sidik yarışı mı yapıyoruz?
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