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Hijab in turkey
(55 Messages in 6 pages - View all)
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1.       Beautiful soul
6 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 12:49 am

i heard so much that hijab is forbidden in schools & universities in Turkey so from social point of view is hijab common & appreciated in turkish society & do men want their wives to wear hijab?



Edited (11/16/2009) by Beautiful soul

2.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 01:52 am

i think more than %50 of men want their wives to wear hijab.

 

it depends on in which family the man was grown up. if the man was grown up in a traditional family in one of the anatolian cities, he likes hijab. if the man was grown up in a big city by a french secular family, he doesn´t like, even hate hijab.

 

in my point of view, i dont hate women who doesnt wear hijab but i want mine to wear it.

 

later edit: the question above is for men and general, it is not the topic why women wear hijab, or have to wear or have not no wear, or about the education level of turkish women, or why it is banned... etc. i am aganist to force anyone wear or not to wear, i just prefer someone who likes it.



Edited (11/16/2009) by ikicihan
Edited (11/16/2009) by ikicihan

3.       Turkish-Teacher
257 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 02:06 am

but did Ataturk´s mother ever wear hijab??

Quoting ikicihan

i think more than %50 of men want their wives to wear hijab.

 

it depends on in which family the man was grown up. if the man was grown up in a traditional family in one of the anatolian cities, he likes hijab. if the man was grown up in a big city by a french secular family, he doesn´t like, even hate hijab.

 

in my point of view, i dont hate women who doesnt wear hijab but i want mine to wear it.

 

 

4.       INESS
1 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 02:44 am

I THINK THAT THE PROBLEM ITS NOT BASIC OF MAN S LIKES AND DESIRE

I IS A PERSONNAL DECISION THAT WOMEN SHOULD TAKE IT BY HER SELF FAR AWAY OF THE OPPRESSION OF THE FAMILY OR THE HUSBAND TURKISH WOMEN ARE EDUCATED AND CIVILISED AND THEY KNOW WHAT THEY WANT

BECAUSE WEARING HIJAB ITS NOT ONLY PUTING THE FOLAR AND COVERT THE HAIR

ITS SOMTHING THAT YOUR  ARE CONVICTED  TO WEAR IT FOR YOUR PERSONAL VISION OF THE RELIGEON

 

 

 

5.       catwoman
8933 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 03:00 am

Please rewrite your message using correct capitalization, thank you.

6.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 01:06 pm

 

Quoting Turkish-Teacher

but did Ataturk´s mother ever wear hijab??

 

 

 

 Who cares what his mother was wearing ?

7.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 02:36 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

 

 

 Who cares what his mother was wearing ?

 

I think those who consider him their hero and role-model

8.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 02:43 pm

 

Quoting Daydreamer

 

 

I think those who consider him their hero and role-model

 

 Those who consider him their hero dont care about who what was wearing or his private life.

9.       yakamozzz
398 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 03:06 pm

 

Quoting Daydreamer

 

 

I think those who consider him their hero and role-model

 

depends on whether they are his fans or just fanatics

10.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 03:14 pm

 

Quoting yakamozzz

 

 

depends on whether they are his fans or just fanatics

 

 Look at the etimology of the word "fan" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_(person)#Etymology

11.       yakamozzz
398 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 05:20 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

 

 

 Look at the etimology of the word "fan" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_(person)#Etymology

 

[...] Supporter is a synonym to "fan" which predates the latter term and as such is still commonly used in British English, especially to denote fans of sports teams. However, the term "fan" has become popular throughout the English-speaking world, including the United Kingdom. The term supporter is also used in a political sense in the United States, to a fan of a politician, a political party, and a controversial issue. [...]

 

 

 

so...? {#emotions_dlg.rolleyes}

12.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 05:27 pm

" (Fanatic itself, introduced into English around 1525, means "insane person". It comes from the Modern Latin fanaticus, meaning "insanely but divinely inspired". The word originally pertained to a temple or sacred place [Latin fanum, poetic English fane]. The modern sense of "extremely zealous" dates from around 1647; the use of fanatic as a noun dates from 1650.)"



Edited (11/16/2009) by ReyhanL

13.       yakamozzz
398 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 05:32 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

" (Fanatic itself, introduced into English around 1525, means "insane person". It comes from the Modern Latin fanaticus, meaning "insanely but divinely inspired". The word originally pertained to a temple or sacred place [Latin fanum, poetic English fane]. The modern sense of "extremely zealous" dates from around 1647; the use of fanatic as a noun dates from 1650.)"

 

and you don´t even concider it being possible that everything CAN be changed during time? even some meaning of some word? so what about this "dudu" meaning then? coz as far as i remember - even that word got a new meaning in time - and on TC site times DO change, Rey, and so do things and even people, they change along with time



Edited (11/16/2009) by yakamozzz

14.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 05:36 pm

You can speak about a national hero as a..superstar or something like this that we use in our times...so saying " his fans..his fanatics.." sounds  odd.

15.       yakamozzz
398 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 05:40 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

You can speak about a national hero as a..superstar or something like this that we use in our times...so saying " his fans..his fanatics.." sounds  odd.

 

and you didn´t even notice the similar sound of those 2 words...? {#emotions_dlg.unsure} ok then... {#emotions_dlg.unsure} coz those 2 similar but soooo different meanings were supposed to make you to see the 2 sooooo different groups of people...nothing more... {#emotions_dlg.unsure}

16.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 05:43 pm

..then im fanatic

17.       yakamozzz
398 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 05:44 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

..then im fanatic

 

...and i´m a big fan...

18.       Zimmygirl
25 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 06:25 pm

Hello Eveyone

 

I was in Turkey for 3 months and stayed with a traditional Turkish family. Now, my host mom didn´t wear the hijab nor did her friends and extended family, only my host dad´s mom wore a hijab. It did not seem to be a big social issue for men or women about wearing a hijab, which I liked alot, because it was the WOMAN´S CHOICE to wear a hijab or not. Wearing a hijab in Turkey does not make you less modern, less educated less anything amazing. Also women who don´t wear hijab are not frowned upon or hated. I realised it is a personal choice thing.

However, with regards to public institutions, women were forbidden to wear a hijab. I have close friends in Turkey, they felt that their rights were being ignored, because they wanted to wear a hijab when they go to class at university. I guess, it is the Turkish government trying to make Turkey more secular and preventing Turkey from becoming like most Muslim countries where the hijab features everywhere.

The last time I checked, the law might have changed, women might have gotten the right to wear a hijab in a public institute (school, office, hospitals). I am not sure, I stand corrected

 

I spoke to many Turkish guys, some say they want their wives to wear it, some say they REALLY DON´T want their wives to wear it and some say IT IS HER CHOICE.

At the end of the day, it is a woman´s choice, whenver she forced to do something, then it becomes oppression and Islam is NOT about oppression.

A man should be fine with the idea that his wife wants or doesn´t want to wear a hijab. It is not up to him to decide for her.

If the woman feels that wearing a hijab is a symbol of pure wisdom and faith in her religion, she should NOT be prohibited and disliked for it. The same, if a woman does not feel the need to wear one, she should not be frowned upon or regarded as "low" from others.

 

My idea of the hijab. At the end of the day, it is a piece of cloth, it does not cover a beautiful heart or a dirty heart. If it is so important for a man to chase a hijab, let him chase it, for he will discover that it does not even present the fraction of what is in that woman´s heart and mind.

I think people should focus less on the hijab and focus more about their innerselves.  A hijab is part of our great religion Islam and Allah has asked of us to wear it, but we must focus more on things that REALLY matter,  (eg peace, honesty, integrity, honor, chastity and most of all LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR.

 

Please this is my opinion, it is NOT  the views of the religion. This is HOW I SEE it.

Thanks

19.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 06:33 pm

The Burqa 

Nasreddin Hodja´s first marriage was an arranged marriage, and in keeping with the custom of the time, he did not see his unveiled bride until the wedding ceremony. Unfortunately, she did not have an attractive face. 

The next day when the bride was making preparations to go to market, she asked her husband, as was the custom, "Shall I wear my burqa? I do not wish to show my face to anyone against your wishes." 

Nasreddin answered, "Wear your burqa or leave it at home. It is all the same to me to whom you show your face in public. All I ask is that you keep your face covered when you are at home with me."

20.       Beautiful soul
6 posts
 16 Nov 2009 Mon 11:33 pm

1st of all thank u sooo much for answering my question & i totally agree with most of u that hijab is a choice even Allah ordered all muslim women to wear but only Allah who judges us nobody has the right to say that a woman is good or bad because of her hijab , islam is not just about hijab  & appearance , islam is so much deeper than this

21.       catwoman
8933 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 12:51 am

 

Quoting Zimmygirl

At the end of the day, it is a woman´s choice, whenver she forced to do something, then it becomes oppression, and islam is not about oppression.

 

A man should be fine with the idea that his wife wants or doesn´t want to wear a hijab. It is not up to him to decide for her.

 

+100000000000000

 

Precisely!! Hijab is part of islamic tradition, and if some women feel good about following it, it should be entirely their own choice. However, I disagree with you that Islam does not oppress women. Turkey is very exceptional in the fact that women are free NOT to wear hijab, no other islamic country is that way. And while it is true that it´s not fair that Turkish women can´t wear hijab in government places, if it was up to the religious majority to set the rules, women would be persecuted for making their own choices. And Islam does oppress women, which really translates into "muslim men oppress women", they make all the public laws -- women aren´t allowed to participate in the decision making process, and they (men) decide on what women are supposed to be doing!! As you said -- men should have to stay away from those things.. and if he desires a more pious wife, he can look for one, but he should never feel entitled to judge women for their choices, or worse, demand!

Lololooo liked this message
22.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 01:52 am

 

Quoting Beautiful soul

1st of all thank u sooo much for answering my question & i totally agree with most of u that hijab is a choice even Allah ordered all muslim women to wear but only Allah who judges us nobody has the right to say that a woman is good or bad because of her hijab , islam is not just about hijab  & appearance , islam is so much deeper than this

 

In Islamic terms...telling people that Allah ordered women to wear hijab is total bulshit. The order is to dress in a modest, sensually non-provocative fashion, in such a way that a Moslem woman can not be mistaken for a lady of different religion.

 

If any idiot interprets "modest and sensually non-provocative" as hijab, and nothing else, so be it. Let her wear it, she deserves to wear hijab all her life.

{#emotions_dlg.head_bang}



Edited (11/17/2009) by AlphaF

23.       catwoman
8933 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 02:09 am

 

Quoting AlphaF

In Islamic terms...telling people that Allah ordered women to wear hijab is total bulshit. The order is to dress in a modest, sensually non-provocative fashion.

 

What is wrong with a woman dressed in sensually provocative fashion? Don´t you think that the fault/sin/problem is in the eye of the beholder? In other words, if you don´t want to be seduced, you cannot be, and if you want to be seduced, you will be seduced by the eye cut-outs in a burka! How about if you leave women and how they dress alone, and mind your own business.

24.       vineyards
1954 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 03:07 am

When I have a fat wallet on me, I tend to stay away from dark streets where I may get into trouble. I know this is a violation or in other words a limitation on my personal freedom. I know there is law and order but like a famous old Tracy Chapman song goes,".. the police always come late, if they come at all." I have learned the hard way that it is wrong to assume that this world is an ideal place, we humans are not, to start with.  Whatever we may be objecting or standing by, there are the seeds of corruption, indecency and therefore a potential to limit others´ freedoms in all of us. Those of us believed to be completely the other way around are depicted on the walls of churches with halos above their heads...

 

There is a Ukrainian feminist group appearing in news these days. They seem to take every opportunity to get rid of their clothes to protest attempts to violate their freedoms. In the end, they use their bodies to draw public attention. They use the ever lasting appetite in men for the female figure. Without a doubt, many women do use their bodies to get silly men to do whatever they want them to do.

 

If there should be resolution about this, there must first of all be some sort of consistency. If one defends that women must have complete authority over what to wear, this must also include hijab no matter how repulsive the idea may sound to some of us.

 

I don´t associate with people who wear hijab. Her hijab is a clear cut indication of the fact that we cannot see eye to eye in many things. Still, it is her life, her decision and she is not very different from those Ukrainian feminists in this regard.

25.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 03:17 am

 

Quoting catwoman

 

 

What is wrong with a woman dressed in sensually provocative fashion? Don´t you think that the fault/sin/problem is in the eye of the beholder? In other words, if you don´t want to be seduced, you cannot be, and if you want to be seduced, you will be seduced by the eye cut-outs in a burka! How about if you leave women and how they dress alone, and mind your own business.

If left on their own, devout Moslems would never be influenced by sensually provacative fashion.

 

But you forget the element of Satan...who finds immense pleasure in leading Moslems astray. The ban on provacative dressing is only a protective safety measure against this eventuality. So long as proper prayers are practiced and Satan is kept out of the families´s private premises, the lady of the house is free to be as seductive and as provacative as she can manage. NO PROBLEM !

 

26.       gökyakut
posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 03:36 am

So Turkish men are like all other muslim men, who believe their women should do what the men ask of them, and Turkish women HAVE to do as their men please? Why does no one ask the women what they want?

27.       catwoman
8933 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 05:56 am

 

Quoting gökyakut

So Turkish men are like all other muslim men, who believe their women should do what the men ask of them, and Turkish women HAVE to do as their men please? Why does no one ask the women what they want?

 

Turkish men, like men of other nationalities are varied. Some are very dominating and some are very egalitarian. In more general terms, since Turkish culture is more open the other islamic cultures, Turkish men are also more open, but in comarison with western cultures, they rank more patriarchal.

28.       catwoman
8933 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 05:58 am

 

Quoting vineyards

When I have a fat wallet on me, I tend to stay away from dark streets where I may get into trouble. I know this is a violation or in other words a limitation on my personal freedom. I know there is law and order but like a famous old Tracy Chapman song goes,".. the police always come late, if they come at all." I have learned the hard way that it is wrong to assume that this world is an ideal place, we humans are not, to start with.  Whatever we may be objecting or standing by, there are the seeds of corruption, indecency and therefore a potential to limit others´ freedoms in all of us. Those of us believed to be completely the other way around are depicted on the walls of churches with halos above their heads...

 

I understand your point Vineyards, and I agree with you. However, I think that we should not make the mistake of putting the blame on women, but we should locate the problem where it belongs, don´t you think? You should avoid certain dark alleys, but you should not say that it´s your fault when you get attacked -- the problem is still the dark alley, not you.

For some reason, it´s still hard to get across the concept that it´s not women´s appearance that is the problem, but men´s behavior!

29.       vineyards
1954 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 06:38 am

 

Quoting catwoman

 

Quoting vineyards

When I have a fat wallet on me, I tend to stay away from dark streets where I may get into trouble. I know this is a violation or in other words a limitation on my personal freedom. I know there is law and order but like a famous old Tracy Chapman song goes,".. the police always come late, if they come at all." I have learned the hard way that it is wrong to assume that this world is an ideal place, we humans are not, to start with.  Whatever we may be objecting or standing by, there are the seeds of corruption, indecency and therefore a potential to limit others´ freedoms in all of us. Those of us believed to be completely the other way around are depicted on the walls of churches with halos above their heads...

 

I understand your point Vineyards, and I agree with you. However, I think that we should not make the mistake of putting the blame on women, but we should locate the problem where it belongs, don´t you think? You should avoid certain dark alleys, but you should not say that it´s your fault when you get attacked -- the problem is still the dark alley, not you.

For some reason, it´s still hard to get across the concept that it´s not women´s appearance that is the problem, but men´s behavior!

 

The problem is those dark alleys will always exist. In my way of thinking both evil and good develop equally. The better you think the world is getting, the worse certain aspects of it will become. This point of view has been advocated by dialectical materialism and has its roots in Socrates and even earlier in zoroastrianism.

 

Zoroaster intruduced a celestial God with two spirits good and bad. Believers would have to choose one of them. He professed, there would be an eternal fight between these which has been proven thus far. Socrates believed life is a transition into more sophisticated forms perpetually. Hegel introduced thesis, antithesis and synthesis. Marx combined Hegel´s thought about dialectic process with Feuerbach´s materialism to create dialectic materialism.

I tend to share the thoughts developed in this circle. Things indeed get more sophisticated by time but evil aspects of human and society follow the same track too. 

 

The common aspect of all these philosophers was the fact that they opened up a frontier against the idealist or romantic thinking that allows completely disregarding certain intrinsic aspects of a subject (in this case human) and replace them with principles, ethic codes etc which can only exist in an ideal world.

 

I believe those dark alleys will always exist and they will probably be even more threatening. You had better hold on to your wallet. Keep an eye on your children and beloved ones. Unless we can find a formula to distibute wealth equally, we can expect much improvement in any of the social parameters.

 

Did you know that the biggest harm Hagia Sophia ever endured was done by the Christian crusaders who set out on a holy quest only to turn into pillagers astounded by the riches of the Byzantium.

 

True, the problem was not the richness of the city. True, poverty and hunger have always been the main culprit but tell me have we ever been able to solve this problem? In the world, affluence is invariably rare and preferential. A lot of other crimes are connected with lack deprivation too. 

 

P.S. I have no problems with sensually provocative women. There is indeed a shortage of them...



Edited (11/17/2009) by vineyards
Edited (11/17/2009) by vineyards

30.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 11:24 am

I don´t think it´s the way women dress that provokes men into sexual offence. I´d put the blame on the penal system. While some say it´s the burkas and niquabs that account for low rate of rape in Muslim countries compared to awfuly high rate in the west, I think it´s the possible punishment that puts men off. Also, if you´re living in the culture that puts the blame on women, you´re not likely to report rape if it happens to you.

31.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 12:48 pm

 

Quoting Daydreamer

Also, if you´re living in the culture that puts the blame on women, you´re not likely to report rape if it happens to you.

 

 Very very important to note that.  The only way rape statistics can be calculated is by the number of REPORTED rapes.

 

In a culture that does not recognise rape within marriage as an offence, and punishes married women for ADULTERY if they are raped by anyone other than their husband, then I dont think women are likely to report such things eh?

 

 

32.       yakamozzz
398 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 05:42 pm

 

Quoting AlphaF

 

 

In Islamic terms...telling people that Allah ordered women to wear hijab is total bulshit. The order is to dress in a modest, sensually non-provocative fashion, in such a way that a Moslem woman can not be mistaken for a lady of different religion.

 

If any idiot interprets "modest and sensually non-provocative" as hijab, and nothing else, so be it. Let her wear it, she deserves to wear hijab all her life.

{#emotions_dlg.head_bang}

 

i couldn´t agree more {#emotions_dlg.alcoholics} but then again - i know even here in estonia many women would like to wear smth like that hijab thing etc, especially when this "natural mating season" (spring and summer time) starts again {#emotions_dlg.lol_fast}

33.       Sekerleme
159 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 06:44 pm

 

Quoting gökyakut

So Turkish men are like all other muslim men, who believe their women should do what the men ask of them, and Turkish women HAVE to do as their men please? Why does no one ask the women what they want?

 

 Who said that!? In my opinions the one who do like that is not a good man. The woman should decide what ever she want, it´s her choice and it´s her life.{#emotions_dlg.rolleyes}



Edited (11/17/2009) by Sekerleme

34.       Ruh
13 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 06:50 pm

Hijab. Could anyone please define this word?

It is only since my activity on the internet that I have learnt that abroad the word hijab literally means headscarf.

According to my upbringing, hijab is not a veil or headscarf. It is a dress code for those of the fairer sex. It is to dress neatly and modestly by not drawing attention to the feminine charms...or whatever you wish to call it...lol

In my opinion a female in hjab is a woman dressed modestly, wearing a headscarf. To others, it may exclude a headscarf. My point is that the headscarf itself is not "hijab".

 

35.       Turkish-Teacher
257 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 07:03 pm

 

Quoting Ruh

Hijab. Could anyone please define this word?

It is only since my activity on the internet that I have learnt that abroad the word hijab literally means headscarf.

According to my upbringing, hijab is not a veil or headscarf. It is a dress code for those of the fairer sex. It is to dress neatly and modestly by not drawing attention to the feminine charms...or whatever you wish to call it...lol

In my opinion a female in hjab is a woman dressed modestly, wearing a headscarf. To others, it may exclude a headscarf. My point is that the headscarf itself is not "hijab".

 

 

Bırakın da millet istediğini giysin. İsteyen türban taksın, isteyen Hazreti Ali´nin kılıcını. İsteyen mini etek giysin, isteyen siyah çarşaf. Her görüşe saygılıyım. Her koyun kendi bacağından asılır.

 

Bázıları türbanın emir olduğuna inanıyorsa, onlara saygı duyarım. Hayır, böyle bir şey yok diyenin de yine kendi düşüncesidir. Kimse kimseyi türban takmaya ya da takmamaya zorlamamalı.

 

 

36.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 07:04 pm

Is hijab same with türban ?

37.       Sekerleme
159 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 07:28 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

Is hijab same with türban ?

 

 Yes and it´s "başörtüsü" too

38.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 08:45 pm

Not to confuse anyone, but there is a difference between türban and başörtüsü. Even though a türban is a form of başörtüsü, not every başörtüsü is a türban The başörtüsü is in the group of headcovering worn by elderly women and women in the countryside (or those who have migrated to the cities) most oftenly bound around the neck on the front or in the back, türban is one brightly coloured with motives and big flowers, usually made of some silky-kind of fabric and put on in a different way than the ´regular´ başörtüleri,  mostly worn by the ´new generation´ in the cities. I am aware of the generalization I made, but from a political point of view the difference between those kinds of headcovering have played a big role in turkey´s political history of ban on ´headscarves´ in universities. Eventhough never put in a law, universities used to make a difference between which type of headscarves were allowed and which were not (ironically, in the 80s, the ´türban´ model was seen as more ´modern´ than the other ones and therefore was allowed, nowadays the ´türban´ is seen as a (modern?) version of backwardness and therefore more disliked by ´secularists´ than the traditional headscarf, in any case, both are banned).

39.       Ruh
13 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 09:15 pm

Turkish-Teacher, I do not understand your reply. Do you mind translating into English? ^^;

40.       ReyhanL
1961 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 09:20 pm

 

Quoting Ruh

Turkish-Teacher, I do not understand your reply. Do you mind translating into English? ^^;

 

 If he didnt write it in english means that his post is only for turkish. Or for those who know turkish well. i consider it  not important.

41.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 09:22 pm

 

Quoting Ruh

Turkish-Teacher, I do not understand your reply. Do you mind translating into English? ^^;

 

 It means something like this:

 

Just leave it and let people wear what they want. Let those who want to wear headscarf, put on a headscarf, and those who want to wear Holy Ali´s sword wear holy Ali´s sword. The one who wants to wear a mini skirt, let them wear it, the one who wants to wear a black burqa, let them wear it. I respect every point of view. Every sheep is hung from its own legs (a saying that means something like ´everybody is responsible for their own actions/behaviour)

 

If some believe that the headscarf is a command/order, I respect them. And for those who say ´no, there is no such thing´, that again is theirthought. Nobody should be forced to wear or not to wear a headscarf.

 

42.       Ruh
13 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 09:27 pm

 

Quoting ReyhanL

 

 

 If he didnt write it in english means that his post is only for turkish. Or for those who know turkish well. i consider it  not important.

 

He quoted me, which is why I asked.

I guess you are right ReyhanL. ^^;

43.       Ruh
13 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 09:37 pm

 

Quoting Deli_kizin

 

 

 It means something like this:

 

Just leave it and let people wear what they want. Let those who want to wear headscarf, put on a headscarf, and those who want to wear Holy Ali´s sword wear holy Ali´s sword. The one who wants to wear a mini skirt, let them wear it, the one who wants to wear a black burqa, let them wear it. I respect every point of view. Every sheep is hung from its own legs (a saying that means something like ´everybody is responsible for their own actions/behaviour)

 

If some believe that the headscarf is a command/order, I respect them. And for those who say ´no, there is no such thing´, that again is theirthought. Nobody should be forced to wear or not to wear a headscarf.

 

 

Thank you Deli_kizin. ^^;

I do not believe I have advised, let alone forced anyone to wear a headscarf in my comment Turkish_Teacher.  ^___^

The Quranul Karim reads that there should be no compulsion in faith. Not quoting the exact wording of course, but it is something to this effect.

We must account for our own actions. Accountable to no one else but the Creator of the Universe. ^___^

44.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 09:52 pm

 

Quoting Ruh

 

 

but it is something to this effect.

 

That´s generally a trouble-making sentence in religion or so it seems..

 

 

Youre welcome btw.

 



Edited (11/17/2009) by Deli_kizin

45.       Ruh
13 posts
 17 Nov 2009 Tue 11:11 pm

 

Quoting Deli_kizin

 

 

That´s generally a trouble-making sentence in religion or so it seems..

 

 

Youre welcome btw.

 

 

 haha...yes, you are quite right.

 

The verse as translated by MM Pickthall

Chapter 2. Verse 256 (relevant portion)

"There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error....."

 

Please bear in mind that Quran was revealed in Arabic. So any translation is merely an attempt made by scholars of the Arabic language. Well, to help out lazy buggers such as myself. ^^

46.       yilgun-2010
572 posts
 18 Nov 2009 Wed 03:33 am

THE HOLY QUR’AN
 
SURE = 2 : BAKARA SURESİ : SURAH 2- AL - BAQARAH – THE HEIFER
 
AYET 256 = VERSE OF THE QURAN
 
Dinde baskı – zorlama – tiksindirme  yoktur :
Let there be no compulsion in religion.
 
Her kimse tağuta sırt dönüp Allaha inanırsa hiç kuşkusuz sapasağlam bir kulpa yapışmış olur.Kopup parçalanması yoktur o kulpun.Allah, hakkıyla işiten, en iyi biçimde bilendir.
Whoever rejects Evil and believe  in Allah  hath grasped the most  trustworthy hand-hold, that never  breaks..And Allah  hearth and knoweth  all things.
 
SURE = 24 : NUR SURESİ :  SURAH 24 – AN-NUR – THE LIGHT
 
AYET 31 = VERSE OF THE QURAN
 
Mümin kadınlara da söyle bakışlarını yere indirsinler.
Irzlarını/eteklerini korusunlar.
Süslerini/zinetlerini, görünen kısımlar müstesna, açmasınlar.
Örtülerini/başörtülerini göğüs yırtmaçlarının üzerine vursunlar.
Süslerini şu kişilerden başkasına göstermesinler:kocaları yahut babaları yahut oğulları yahut kardeşleri :
 
And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty, that they should not display  their  beauty and ornaments except what –must ordinarily- appear thereof , that they should draw their veils over  their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their sons, their brothers and their sisters



Edited (11/18/2009) by yilgun-2010
Edited (11/18/2009) by yilgun-2010
Edited (4/14/2010) by yilgun-2010

47.       Zimmygirl
25 posts
 18 Nov 2009 Wed 07:11 am

 

Quoting Beautiful soul

1st of all thank u sooo much for answering my question & i totally agree with most of u that hijab is a choice even Allah ordered all muslim women to wear but only Allah who judges us nobody has the right to say that a woman is good or bad because of her hijab , islam is not just about hijab  & appearance , islam is so much deeper than this

 

 I am glad that you also understand what I am trying to tell people. Islam is more than just a hijab. I may also add that Islam is more than just  a kofia (what the men put on their head). 

48.       Ruh
13 posts
 18 Nov 2009 Wed 03:10 pm

 

Quoting yilgun-2010

THE HOLY QUR’AN

 

 

SURE = 2 : BAKARA SURESİ : SURAH 2- AL - BAQARAH – THE HEIFER

 

AYET 256 = VERSE OF THE QURAN

 

Dinde baskı – zorlama – tiksindirme  yoktur :

Let there be no compulsion in religion.

 

Her kimse tağuta sırt dönüp Allaha inanırsa hiç kuşkusuz sapasağlam bir kulpa yapışmış olur.Kopup parçalanması yoktur o kulpun.Allah, hakkıyla işiten, en iyi biçimde bilendir.

 

 

Whoever rejects Evil and believe  in Allah  hath grasped the most  trustworthy hand-hold, that never  breaks..And Allah  hearth and knoweth  all things.

 

 

SURE = 24 : NUR SURESİ :  SURAH 24 – AN-NUR – THE LIGHT

 

AYET 31 = VERSE OF THE QURAN

 

Mümin kadınlara da söyle bakışlarını yere indirsinler.

Irzlarını/eteklerini korusunlar.

Süslerini/zinetlerini, görünen kısımlar müstesna, açmasınlar.

Örtülerini/başörtülerini göğüs yırtmaçlarının üzerine vursunlar.

Süslerini şu kişilerden başkasına göstermesinler:kocaları yahut babaları yahut oğulları yahut kardeşleri :

 

And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty, that they should not display  their  beauty and ornaments except what –must ordinarily- appear thereof , that they should draw their veils over  their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their sons, their brothers and their sisters.

 

 

 A very important verse you have quoted there Yilgun. ^^

Some would argue that hair is not considered an "ornament". If hair was intended, they say, then the word would have been clearly noted. Drawing the veil over the bosoms is pretty obvious though.

If we read further we will understand that no woman would voluntarilly display her chest to even her father or brother...so it is clear that ornaments would include everything about a woman one would find charming and/ or attractive. "except for what would ordinarily appear thereof..." THAT is why I am incredibly against wearing a veil to cover the face!

So to guys who fall inlove with women because of the shape of their nose or eyes, or silky hands. TOUGH LUCK! We can´t be held responsible for your weaknesses and disgusting behaviour. As is the case with some rape cases in the middle-east for example. (I have read about here.)

You are accountable for your own actions....even if she had to waltz down the street in a micro-mini.

BTW is the crime of rape not more a power struggle than not being able to control sexual urges?? That excuse is so lame. ughhh

 

Finally, I would just like to add that the decision to dress in an Islamically correct fashion, lies with the individual. Freedom of choice. Chapter 2, the first sentence of verse 256 clarifies that point. The rest of the verse is even more imporant though. That should really clear up any further confusion on the issue of free-will.

 

You have been commanded to dress modestly, yes. As the verse reads; "And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty..."

To dress modestly or not. Why is this topic and that of the headscarf an endless one among Islamic and non-Islamic circles? (Not TC, but generally)

Non-Islamic, I can understand, but Muslims themselves?

 

The FIRST chapter of the Quran revealed to mankind:

" Read: In the name of thy Lord who createth. Createth man from a clot. Read: And thy Lord is the Most Bounteous. Who teaches by the pen....", emphasises the importance of knowledge.

 

Knowledge enables us to make more informative decisions. ^^;

 

 



Edited (11/18/2009) by Ruh [incorrect word used.]

49.       Ruh
13 posts
 18 Nov 2009 Wed 03:20 pm

 

Quoting Zimmygirl

 

 

 I am glad that you also understand what I am trying to tell people. Islam is more than just a hijab. I may also add that Islam is more than just  a kofia (what the men put on their head). 

Interesting that you use the word KOFIA. ^___^

It is commonly used here in my country but almost all of my muslim friends abroad are not familiar with it. They either use the word fez, skull cap and other terms I have never known before...hehe

Islam is more than a headscarf and kofia, I agree. But you must remember that a person´s way of dress is also his/her identity in Islam. ^^;

I am not familiar with any Quranic verse that commands men to wear kofia though. I think that is more a cultural or traditional thing (chinese of yesteryear for example) than a religious obligation. ^__^

50.       zettea
160 posts
 18 Nov 2009 Wed 07:32 pm

why not just end the discussion. In the history of this forum, such topics always go out of hand. So yeah.. leave it.

51.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 18 Nov 2009 Wed 09:26 pm

Surprising as it may be, I´m not going to comment on hijab lol but on emoticons. I was reading through posts and saw Ruh using a lot of ^^. Till now I believed it was supposed to indicate sarcasm so I checked Wiki and I learnt that ^^ or ^_^ in Eastern Asia meant the same as here. Wow, even emoticons are culture-dependent

52.       Ruh
13 posts
 18 Nov 2009 Wed 09:34 pm

 

Quoting Daydreamer

Surprising as it may be, I´m not going to comment on hijab lol but on emoticons. I was reading through posts and saw Ruh using a lot of ^^. Till now I believed it was supposed to indicate sarcasm so I checked Wiki and I learnt that ^^ or ^_^ in Eastern Asia meant the same as here. Wow, even emoticons are culture-dependent

 

 I mean seriously now Daydreamer...just look at it. ------------>  ^__________^ that´s me smiling like an idiot. lol.

Sarcasm? Oh no, why? T_T  <----- These are tears.

53.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 18 Nov 2009 Wed 09:42 pm

If you ever looked at Japanese websites (when watching online series or films you are often redirected to Chines or Japanese sites), you´d definitely notice the difference between smilies. The jap/chinese ones are much more shaped with rectangular and squar lines. Maybe it has something to do with the stilistic forms of western an asian alphabets.

54.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 20 Nov 2009 Fri 06:24 pm

T_T    ...that could also be a teenager with gothic make-up...

55.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 21 Nov 2009 Sat 02:14 pm

 

Quoting barba_mama

T_T    ...that could also be a teenager with gothic make-up...

 

 

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