Lemon you sound worse than armegon and si++. At least they seem they don´t aprove insulting a nation. You must respect a nation but you are free not to respect a person.

where did you get an impression of me approving to insult nations?

cool down and stop making fantasies about me.

I am stating the pure facts.

As for respect, what is the difference between a nation and a person? is it the ammount?

I do not view it that way. All I do is watch, judge and state.

Why if my views come cross yours makes me worse? By which standards do you judge?

lemon, you are not convincing definitely.

hahahaha

cook me if you can

in which parts I dont sound not convincing?

Okay, let me make it clear for you. Being a gypsy is not as visible as being black. The people you meet every day in your life, don´t have stamps on them saying what they are. You have seen gypsies do things, let´s say, steal. It was clear for you that they are gypsies. However, you might come across more gypsies then you know of every day in your life. But you don´t realize it. You base your opinion of gypsies, on the people that are clear cut stealing, horrible (and gypsy) people. However, the people who are going in a suit to their jobs, sitting with you in the bus, etc. they might be gypsies as well.

You are just looking at the gypsies that enforce your stereotypes. You are not looking at the gypsies that will break this stereoptype. I´m not saying that one honest gypsie proves that gypsies in general are not liar, cheaters, criminals, whatever. I´m giving him as an example that more often than not, you won´t be able to see who is a gypsy. And a lot of gypsies are not open about their identity to prevent bad treatment.

Did you get my point or not? You don´t have to agree, just wondering if you understand what I mean.

All racists accuse other nations of being evil, barbarian, liar, murderer, thief. They give examples. At the end they say it is best to get rid of them. Some hate Turks, some hate Jews, some hate Americans, some hate Arabs. Every racist has his own arguements. To make their arguements more convincing they generalize a bad image as a nation´s image. You think gypsies are bad, others think Jews are bad, others think Armenians are bad. Jews had a worse image than gypsies in the beginning of 20. century but now they are considered as a modern nation. People respect Jews because of their achievements. Most of nobel winners are Jews. So it proves us insulting a nation with false accusations get us nowhere. We must respect nations and their potentials.

Check this: http://www.imninalu.net/famousGypsies.htm 

You blame gypsies for stealing and being unhygienic. If i was poor like some gypsies i would steal and be unhygienic too. If i was externalized like them i would be a murderer too. If you want to understand what means being a gypsy you must read this novel: The Painted Bird by Jerzy Kosinski. You can find a free e-book version of it on the net. If you want to discuss this matter further please read it and then we can discuss about it here or privately. Have a nice day

you are underestimating my intelligence. Please dont treat me as if I dont know gypsies. I had a chance living in their neighbourhood.

what you are saying is that I shouldnt stereotype on the basis of 90% of gypsies and their lifestyle.

now using this logic, barba, we should reverse your "rotten apples" example. Enjoy it!

I wonder how far you can twist and stretch your logic!

My statement:  my expression is  what I saw.

Your statement: I know they steal and cheat, but maybe they are not gypsies? (doesnt hold water, does it?)

Conclusions: No. I dont hate gypsies! I hate their lifestyle, hate their actions.

gokuyum, I know what you mean by saying that in every nation there are prejudices against other peoples. this is a fact.

note one thing, and please focus your mind on it, Im not saying that gypsies are bad. I pointed out their lifestyle. and if you say otherwise you are refusing the facts.

It is a big mistake to compare jews to gypsies. jews have their history reaching back 6 thousand years. they are a hard working people. they can trace their roots back to centuries.

while you cant say the same about gypsies and many other nations.

every nation has its features. not all the nations are equally contributing to the world. I come from a nation where there is hardly any known scientist or artist or anything to be found in comparison to germans, russians or jews. Am I saying I am bad or my nation is bad?

As for your second point. you know in many countries there were programmes to help gypsies. They gave education and employment, they gave accommodation. Results? I think you know.

If you are asking me to embrace them as they are it is another issue then.

You see all of you modern all tolerant loving people are so scared to face the facts.

I see sometimes people try to make a racist outa me. I admit I am a racist, a racist against not skin, not ethnicity, but mentality and way of thinking.

Marion,

Here is my candidate for your book,

FATMA SEHER HANIM (alias KARA FATMA) : a lady officer, a commander and a hero in Turkish War of Independence

here is a starter: 

http://www.oguzkoroglu.com/index.php?sid=ydizi_page&id=1&sayfa_no=3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb9RJlHvjXQ

i figured this post was diverted and lost long ago lets have a nice moment now

Some posts of Lemon were deleted because they were considered to be against the forum rules.