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Famous Turks
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| 100. |
20 Apr 2010 Tue 02:31 pm |
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i have no anger about you deleteing my comment that would be your own delusional thought to the power you hold. I just said it surprised me about the negative comments that I find you write but now added to the fact is that you can not allow someone to say this is even more important.There was no bashing it was noticing that both you and the other person seemed so edgey as to prove something bad about what was written and questions - my own thoughts bashing...
Edited (4/20/2010) by spritzer
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| 101. |
20 Apr 2010 Tue 03:04 pm |
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i have no anger about you deleteing my comment that would be your own delusional thought to the power you hold. I just said it surprised me about the negative comments that I find you write but now added to the fact is that you can not allow someone to say this is even more important.There was no bashing it was noticing that both you and the other person seemed so edgey as to prove something bad about what was written and questions - my own thoughts bashing...
its a shame that I had no chance to read it 
I just cant understand why the posts are deleted.
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| 102. |
20 Apr 2010 Tue 03:05 pm |
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You simply dont understand it.
It is a simpleton to say that Darwin hated Turks, whilest his theory on natural selection had influence on those who hated or humiliated other races than white.
I don´t think this is Darwin´s fault. He was just a scientist. People see what they want to see. They read Darwin or Nietzsche and begin to kill people.
Edited (4/20/2010) by gokuyum
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| 103. |
20 Apr 2010 Tue 03:10 pm |
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So you are saying that there is prejudice against Turks because they are seen as the "black people of Europe" because they are seen as barbaric, due to brainwashing..
You are spinning in a mental circle, kind of like "I am Turkish because I was born in Turkey, and because people born in Turkey are called Turkish"!!
Im talking about the centuries of brainwashing. What do you think people of Europe thought of Turks in middle ages? This has also great affect today for the people who dont know nothing about Turks. Once a member here posted a link from a foreign newspaper in the thread about a Kurdish girl who was buried alive by her family, have you seen that reader comments below it? Then you can understand what i mean, in fact i think you know it also but just twisting. Besides still many people in Europe percieve Turks as Arabs. Moreover all citizens of Turkey called Turkish by institution. Being Turk does not depend on race.
I agree that there is some prejudice against Turks/Muslims in Europe, saying that they are "black people of Europe" is insane, ridiculous, stupid and insulting to Blacks. Muslims in Europe didn´t go through 10% of what blacks have gone through in the US, don´t martyrize yourself, you "innocent victims".
I havent insulted black people, its the fact that they passed through a racist period in US and i guess there are still many people in US who see black people as second class. And i just likened the black people of US to Turks in Europe, never said they passed through same process, its simply out of logic. So do not twist my words.
Turks were brought to Germany as unskilled workers, they were uneducated, often without primary school education, people, from villages in Turkey. Even in Turkey those people were the poor, uneducated class. So after coming to Europe they still were the uneducated, poor, but also not speaking the languge class! They were foreigners and they felt foreigners.. some of them assimilated by sending their kids to schools and switching the class status, but some became more radical to preserve their identity. Even now, there are communities of Turks in Europe where they don´t speak the language of the country they live in, even being 2nd/3rd generation immigrants. But there are some very successful Turks - rich, educated... etc.
I mostly agree with this one, but why do you think they became more radical? Is there affect of European viewpoint of Turks on it?
It is not islamophobic to criticize those groups, it is completely correct.. but it sometimes lacks the understanding of the bigger picture, like the fact that it´s the US that has funded the first ultraradical, dangerous islamic terrorists in order to spark conflict between Russia and Afghanistan, or that the west is completely quiet and even supportive of the extermination and apartheid of the Palestinians in their own land, or that islamic terrorism has increased after the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan because this is their means of fighting back! If they had the most sophisticated army in the world, like the US has, they wouldn´t have to blow themselves up! To some Europeans, Muslims are Muslims, whether Turks or Saudi. Terrorists are still terroritsts and they have to be fought back, but unless we address the underlying issues, nothing will really work against them.
If you want to know how Islamphobia created, Wilders(you know very well) of the Netherlands is a good example, he put Islam into trial now in the Netherlands  . Actually Islam itself not really problem, but the problem as i explained before, muslims were always the "others" that people of Europe once fought in crusades, later colonized them, so the idea of seeing them as victims impossible, it is easier to see them as burden or enemy. Anti-Islamic rhetoric has continuously increased after 911 and because of people like Wilders. And also i had read many articles about how European people began to think since the muslim population in Europe continously increasing. One can feel the fear and Islamophobia in those opinions easily. So the existence of muslims in Europe of course began to be seen as a threat to their western values. Any objection to this?
It´s the same with PKK in Turkey, you hypocrites.
Dont worry i was still not infected by your hypocracy  . How you compare simply PKK with islamist terrorists whereas PKK is widely supported by Kurds but those radicals are not supported by majority of muslims? Secondly it is not good to compare Kurds with Turkish/Kurdish minority in Europe since Kurds are not counted as minority though Europe desires them to be counted as minority so that Kurds have right to educate Kurdish people in their native language, but Europe itself doesnt give same right to its minorities in Europe, how hypocrite, eh?
It is very convenient to live with the ilusion that Turks are martyrs, they´ve done nothing wrong and all the Europeans just hate them for no reason. It certainly is a very lovely political tool that your own government will use against you and your own interests.
These are your delusions actually, i havent said something like Turks are angels. Of course European people have every right to hate muslim and or Turks or other minorities in Europe. And simply tried to mentioned this which is; Turks are not much welcomed in Europe.
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| 104. |
20 Apr 2010 Tue 03:15 pm |
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Which genius told you this crap? Don´t make me wet my pants of laughing, armegon.
That genius is me , i compiled those from what i have observed, researched or learned. So you should read this in WC if you cant keep your pee inside while reading it, seems a good solution to me...
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| 105. |
20 Apr 2010 Tue 03:18 pm |
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I don´t think this is Darwin´s fault. He is just a scientist. People see what they want to see. They read Darwin or Nietzsche and begin to kill people.
I do agree with you people will use anything for their evil deeds.
But what I am trying to say Darwin is not just an innocent scientist. His work has influenced many. All school books are darwinised even though its just a theory. school texts offer darwinism as the only fact or even a scientific fact, when it is not.
Darwinism brought a huge damage to the society. British colonists (influenced by darwin) considered aborigenes as the last linking race to the homosapiens.
In that aspect I agree with Adnan Oktar.
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| 106. |
20 Apr 2010 Tue 03:26 pm |
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I do agree with you people will use anything for their evil deeds.
But what I am trying to say Darwin is not just an innocent scientist. His work has influenced many. All school books are darwinised even though its just a theory. school texts offer darwinism as the only fact or even a scientific fact, when it is not.
Darwinism brought a huge damage to the society. British colonists (influenced by darwin) considered aborigenes as the last linking race to the homosapiens.
In that aspect I agree with Adnan Oktar.
Other theories aren´t scientific. If you think they are scientific, we have a problem. And i don´t think we can solve it. We can´t escape facts or ignore them because they influence people badly. We can´t stop studying physics because physicists invented the atom bomb. We can´t destroy televisions because people watch improper things. People must control themselves if they want not others.
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| 107. |
20 Apr 2010 Tue 03:30 pm |
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Other theories aren´t scientific. If you think they are scientific, we have a problem. And i don´t think we can solve it. We can´t escape facts or ignore them because they influence people badly. We can´t stop studying physics because physicists invented the atom bomb. We can´t destroy televisions because people watch improper things. People must control themselves if they want not others.
fully agree!
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| 108. |
20 Apr 2010 Tue 03:59 pm |
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An advice and a scientific approach and an outline for MarioninTurkey´s private study=
some of the most influential and top level -historical- people whose achievements have helped shape the modern TÜRKİYE:
Osman Bey -Otoman Empire Sultan-
Fatih Sultan Mehmet –Ottoman Empire padishah, sultan-
Kanuni Sultan Süleyman–Ottoman Empire padishah, sultan-
Yavuz Sultan Selim–Ottoman Empire padishah, sultan-
Mevlana –world philosopher-
Yunus Emre –world and islamic poet-
İbn-i Sina –med.scientist-
Mimar Sinan–architect-
Ömer Seyfettin –story writer-
Nasreddin Hoca - philosopher, folk wise-
Mustafa Kemal Atatürk - leader (Türkiye)
I have really not seen a leader in the world history like Atatürk)
İsmet İnönü -soldier leader, president-
Kazım Karabekir Paşa – soldier leader-
Maraşel Fevzi Çakmak -soldier leader-
Celal Bayar -president-
Adnan Menderes -prime minister-
Sait Faik -–story writer-
Yahya Kemal Beyatlı--poet-
Orhan Veli Kanık-poet-
Cahit Sıtkı Tarancı-poet-
Nazım Hikmet-poet-
Vehbi Koç- businessman-
Sakıp sabancı- businessman-
Ümit Boyner- businessman-
Cemal Gürsel -soldier leader, president-
Kenan Evren-soldier leader, president-
Nihat Erim -prime minister-
Attila Karaosmanoğlu-vice prime minister, vice World Bank President-
Kemal Derviş-economist, politician, World Bank Director-
Bülent Ecevit-prime minister-
Turan Güneş- foreign minister-
İhsan Sabri Çağlayangil- -foreign minister-
İsmail Cem-foreign minister-
Necmettin Erbakan-prime minister-
Tansu Çiller –famale prime minister-
Alpaslan Türkeş -politician-
Turgut Özal –politician, prime minister-
Ayhan Işık –movie artist-
Belgin Doruk-movie artist-
Kemal Sunal –movie artist-
İbrahim Hakkı Hazretleri –religious scientist-
Yaşar Kemal –novelist-
Orhan Pamuk –novelist-
Aziz Nesin -writer
Fazıl Say- artist-
Leyla Gencer- artist-
Zeki Müren- artist-
Sertap Erener- artist-
İbrahim Tatlıses- artist-
İdil Biret- artist-
Koca Yusuf- wrestler-
Kurtdereli Mehmet Pehlivan- wrestler-
Yaşar Doğu- wrestler-
Naim Süleymanoğlu- wrestler-
Metin Oktay-football player-
Lefter - footbal player-
Hidayet Türkoğlu- basketball player-
Mehmet Okur- basketball player-
Çetin Altan –journalist-
Peyami safa -journalist-
Abti İpekçi-journalist-
Uğur Mumcu - journalist-
İlhan Selçuk-journalist-
Uğur Dündar-journalist-
Turgut Özakman -writer-
Mehmet Öz – med.doctor-
Muazzez İlmiye Çığ – sumerologist-
Cahit Arf –mathematician-
Ali Kuşçu –astronomist-
Ve diğerleri
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| 109. |
20 Apr 2010 Tue 09:04 pm |
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I´m talking about the centuries of brainwashing. What do you think people of Europe thought of Turks in middle ages? This has also great affect today for the people who dont know nothing about Turks. [..] Besides still many people in Europe percieve Turks as Arabs.
With that logic, the Dutch catholics should be giving dirty looks to the Dutch protestants right now, which they aren´t. And even the most racist people I´ve met don´t view Turks as Arabs.
If you want to know how Islamphobia created, Wilders(you know very well) of the Netherlands is a good example, he put Islam into trial now in the Netherlands . Actually Islam itself not really problem, but the problem as i explained before, muslims were always the "others" that people of Europe once fought in crusades, later colonized them, so the idea of seeing them as victims impossible, it is easier to see them as burden or enemy. Anti-Islamic rhetoric has continuously increased after 911 and because of people like Wilders. And also i had read many articles about how European people began to think since the muslim population in Europe continously increasing. One can feel the fear and Islamophobia in those opinions easily. So the existence of muslims in Europe of course began to be seen as a threat to their western values. Any objection to this?
Objection! Because of people like Wilders? It´s easy to put the blame on others, but you named the beast by its name right in your text... after 911! Don´t you think that Muslims crashing a plane into buildings hurt the view people have on Muslims? Sure, Wilders isn´t helping the view people have of Muslims, but I think people who crash planes have a worser impact. Just like those crazies that are threatening the makers of South Park now. Between these two camps, there are enough European people who have a nuanced view of Islam. But I think it´s a shame that you would blame the Islamphobia only outsiders, and not on Islamic extremists themselves. And even though Wilders can scream very loudly, the majority of the Dutch people agree that there should never be a government with his party in it.
I am SO sick of hearing the name Wilders... don´t you know any other Dutch people? You are giving him exactly what he wants...attention. And the people in Holland who struggle every day for a peacefull society, have to battle this kind of media attention. Nobody cares about people who want to bring peace. The extremists (both Muslim extremists and racist extremists) are given the most media-time. When it´s about Muslim extremists, it is wrongfull depiction of the media. When it´s Wilders, you just assume that Europe is like that. There should be some sort of list with great Dutch people, and believe me, Wilders is a nothing on that list.
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| 110. |
21 Apr 2010 Wed 01:16 am |
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Yeah, Barba raised her finger, objection ! . Yes of course dearest Barba i myself many times cursed those radical hypocrites here and of course they affected the people´s view. But the subject mainly is not that only, 911 is very well used by western media, internet and polticians to intensify Islampohobia even that triggered invasion of Iraq. Now think about who advantaged from this situation absolutely not muslims either in Europe or not. Now Barba, i advice you to go and open youtube page and research how people put some videos about muslims in europe and also read the comments below them, you know people comment there whatever they want, they dont put limit on their feelings, they dont need to be politically correct there because nobody can judge them or even know them easily. Those mostly reflect the views of European people without stint, some maybe joined for fun. Let me tell you these videos implore European people to save their culture and their continent from Europe´s muslim invasion mainly. And also if you want to see how Turks seen as Arabs by some people, youtube comments will be enough or visit some forums where people declare their feelings about Turks.
Anyway this is the only Islam related part now put being Turkish on it, what do you see?
It is true that many bad things usually said about Turks by the ones who dont know much about Turks(mostly majority), but it is also true that people usually avoid things for a reason, so they avoid to learn something about Turks because of what they heard about Turks and their history from others or media or politicians throughout their life. Now think about how Turks were mostly described in western movies or serials, they were depicted as cruel characters mainly. Last interesting claim came from an US serial that says Turks burnt İzmir after they captured it from Greks during the Turkish War of Independence in order to wipe out christian community in that city. A wiki link for you about anti-Turkism;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Turkism
Finally no nation can compete with Turks about being hated the most, so far we are just a little bit modest about this  ...
p.s. I mentioned wilders because i thought he was very popular last few months in the Netherlands.
Edited (4/21/2010) by armegon
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