The beautiful and lovely Pınar, 22, wife of a lieutenant for only 40 days, who was shot in the head during an attack by PKK terrorists passed away in the hospital.

Quoted from: here

I posted the remarks of TSK in what caught my eye thread, it is written with different sytle, which is more emotional than the other statements of TSK;

No comment from our freedom fighters in TLC. They are silent now! Allah rahmet eylesin Pnar´a; ailesine de sabır versin....

Why do brave and honorable freedom fighters machine gun at balconies of residences ?

What do you expect? They should come soon after this weekend. And then you will hear that automatic condolence "We are sorry to hear your losses" "Our heart is with you" "This is a tragedy" etc etc.

And I know you people love to hear repeatedly the same expressions. Do your heart feel at ease when you receive the same wishes times and times?

Today she died, tomorrow someone else will die, someone else will cry and will be sad. The never ending cirlce, the never ending violence - we humans are evil no matter how wonderful you try to describe ourselves.

If we are not murderers then we are liars.

If we are not thieves then we are hypocrats.

All of us deserve death, our final payment is death. Your little my little angels are as evil as the criminals in the prison. They too will die. No matter how pretty they look, how wonderful they speak and do good deeds they die. Can you overcome this?

Ah, so sad. She didn´t even have time to enjoy her honeymoon period.

typical lame reply - does this mean that if she had been married a few months longer it would of been ok for her to die!!!! or is this how you get increase your points on this site???

ufffffffffffffft

...there is seriously something wrong with you if you think that showing empathy is bad! The fact that she was a newly wed makes the event more painful, yes! Now stop making the way people send their condoleances a battle. It is just shamefull. Will it make you feel better if I said what somebody else said? She deserved death, like all of us! There... do you think better of me now?

there is seriously something wrong with your thinking if you you think showing empathy is " oh so sad...... and she did not get to finish her honeymoon " what a joke to even try to argue your point. However we can give you one more forum point for this.

I think that any more personal remarks between Paramedic and barba mama should be deleted.Barba mama should be free to express her sympathy without a personal attack on how she does it.

actually you are wrong there this whole site is personal attacks about comments made

What a waste of a young and beautiful woman´s life! Freedom fighters my harris, the fact that generation after generation of Kurds have entered Turkey and are now demanding rights has nothing to do with it?

In the meantime people young gifted, old and wise are dying for this ´freedom´ load of bollocks and all Pkk chat should be banned from these boards.

It´s like Brits arguing with the IRA pointless,violent and no final resolution in sight, waste of time ´Freedom fighters my arse´.

Kurds are not entering anywhere.. They have been living almost in the same region for more than we remember.. They were there when the Turks came into Anatolia..

9. Personal attacks or insults towards other users will not be tolerated. Posts with negative remarks about another person´s character that result in or are a cause of conflict or resentment are also subject to deletion by moderators or admins

From TC Rules.

One more lives taken by this continuing war

Her name was Pinar

She was 22

And a bride for 40 days

She died in a pointless PKK atack.

Her death would not be a benefit to kurdis people nor their freedom struggle

Wars going on so long, making the fighing parties go crazy in the end, they get possed by the  aimless, pointless desire to kill and then they kill..

For us, the only remaining is to feel sorry behind those young people
We feel sorry for Ceylan who torn into peices by a rocket in a small village, Diren who died under a armoured vehicle, Pinar who got killed by a peice of shrapnel while sitting on her balcony..
We are getting angry, getting sorrowful, screaming, begging as ´finish this war´
Our voice is dying away in an isolated darkness like the place Pinar got killed, and we are unable our voice to be heard, We are unable to explain killing will not work, we are unable to stop this war
Savagery of fighting parts look like eachother
The war wrapping up both parties and make them similar

Ceylan is dying, Pinar is dying, killers are telling us how right they are to kill..
There is no right reason for killing anymore, there are no heros of wars, there are only the murderers of this war and their victims
And also a never ending sorrow..

===

The translation of the last bit of Ahmet Altan´s column..

That is a different matter..

But saying that ´Kurds have entered Turkey generation after generation´ is  quite wrong as they are the natives of that land when you compare them to us/Turks.

Now you have been a historian?

How can you express certain statements about the years before 1071.

If you do not have a proof, you are a liar.

dont push it sonunda nothing was said other than the remark was lame I think you better back off, disagreeing with what is written is not a personal attack

Why is it different matter? you say that Kurdish people have been there as ´natives´ then Turks have been there as ´natives´ no?

It is not a different matter, it points at the whole reason the PKK exist. If Turks and Kurds have lived together harmoniously since time began why are the even in existence? What´s the nature and the goal of their fight?

Ah..you are still here..

I really think you are coming to the end of my patiance here..

Prove that they are not..

Yes

I am saying something with certain statement..

CAN YOU PROVE THAT I AM WRONG?

Even kids know that they are native to this land comparing to Turks!!

Ah..are you one of the persons believes what idiotic /racist Halacoglu says?

Geez..

Stop it ya.. Stop it...

I am not having pleasure to prove that you are wrong again and again..

Why are you taking this to a personal level all the time?

(And then you are getting dissapointed and sulking!!)

Off ya offf..

Is it my turn yet? answer if the ´Turks´ and ´Kurds´ have been living in same country for hundreds if not thousands of years, why does the PKK exist? Why would you kill your neighbour, when your history dates back centuries?

We are not discussing here the nature of our Kurdish problem here...

You made a huge wrong statement and it gave the impression as if Kurds are immigrants of Turkey, or entering Turkey generation after generation..

So..THAT is not the case..

Ok?

Allah allah..

Now do you want me to explain ´why PKK exists´ here?

Just in a nut shell?

Mylo, there is PKK because todays worlds powerful countries´ most significant argument to push another country into chaos is to provake ethnical differences.

Today 100 Uzbeks and Kyrgz have died in Krygyzistan just becouse of USA and Russias´ efficenecy struggle. 

The same in Transilvania, the same in Under Saharan countries, Same in South East Europe etc.

They feed PKK just to use it whenever Turkey does sth. that they dont like. 

But whatever they do, they will not able to destroy the strong links between Turks and Kurds.

I am Kurd as much as I am Turk.

The ones who always try to deepen the problem is the ones like thehandsome, who just talks and who have no profits to his country. Mass public do not have an ethnic problem, they have PKK problem.

There is not a war in Turkey. There is terrorism and our military is fighting with terrorists. That is not a matter of Turks and Kurds. Terrorist is terrorist whatever he is Turkish or Kurdish

mylo - when a deficit appears in our fascist population, I promise you to call you, so that you could come and help them. Due to the current over-capacity, I don´t think they are in need of help from you.

You have no law knowledge also!

If a person claims anything, he is responsible to prove it.

You are just a provaker and a liar.

For how long kids can have ideas about 1000 year before´s history!

You just try to show off that it is a common idea by using your words. There is no scientific background of your words. And you wont able to convince people to your lies.

When someone asks you for proofs your patience is over. Is it because you have no knowladge just provacations?

They are basicly managed by some feudal leaders who works for foreign countries.

These feudal leaders own drug, human and gun traffic income just because they own a terrorist organisation. And use their guns to create chaos in Turkey when their owners want.

This is a mutualist life style between foreign countries and the PKK´s managers. While foreign countries decrease Turkey´s power, PKK managers own the income which they would not even dream if they don´t do terrorism.

And the symphatisans of PKK introduce this terrorist organisation as Kurdish people´s freedom fighters. They are just the enemies of Kurdish people. They just use Kurdish kids for their bloody sakes.

Mylo it is not to you it is to Thehandsome.

You can find my comments above as an answer to your question

Ha ha

You are frustrated as usual..

So, are you going to leave again soon..

I am telling you..You have no clue what you are talking about..

I am telling you that ´when Turks came to Anatolia, there were some people living there and the people living today ate the same people´.

This is like some one telling that ´Turks originally from central asia´ and you are coming up ´prove it otherwise you are a liar´

Excuse me.. But THAT shows only one thing:

You are ignorant..

You know why he is silent now, because he has no answers.

Otherwise a person who has about 6000 posts and who is in the middle of all debates would tell sth.

Thehandsome is just a liar and a provaker.

mylo - Currently we have more than enough fascists around, and cannot and have no intention at all to deal with one more, especially a foreign one. When they go smaller in nummers, I do promise that I will let you know about that and hence your acting here as if one of them would make a sense!

You are nothing!

Mylo foreign powers wants them to kill and they do. That is all. Because all kills creates chaos in Turkey.

Well 

I would not mind explaining to you about our "Kurdish problem".. I have done it many times in this forums, as you very well know.. Actually, I did it with patience  and many many times..

May I recommend you to read my previous posts first and then you ask your questions?

Is it ok?

The handsome just tell us your arguments otherwise you are liar and provaker!

He frightens to discuss with me because everybody will see how a huge liar he is if he does.

Well, what did I say wrong? all I said was Turks came to Anatolia from central Asia..And when us/the Turks came, there were Kurds/Armenians/ Greeks etc in the place where we are living now..

What is the wrong statement there?

and you still have not explained to me why you thought ´Kurds entered Turkey generation after generation´, which I said was wrong?

Hey Nothing, tell us the argument about Kurds and Armenians. Are there any ancient foundings of them before 1071?

You tell those lies that just to tell South Anatolia owns Kurdish people in your next sentence.

What i tell you is not only south anatolia, whole anatolia is owned by Kurdish people as well as Turkish people.

If we can shut up provakers like you, we will live in peace as always.

Well, PKK´s existence would not be explained without explaining our Kurdish Problem. And Our Kurdish Problem dates back to the beginning of our republic almost if not going further back..

I talked about these problems in the past and posted many articles, written many things..

I insist that you have to read them first...

Slow down, cowboy! You got too excited now!

I am not excited. I am angry. Becouse my country, my Kurds and my Turks paid those provaker people´s lies with 40000 losts

You are still here?

Will you stay if I argue with you for the water melon?

Read carefully, I never said that Kurds were living in the entire Anatolia..

Is it really THAT difficult for you to see that?

do you I need to write the things very simple for you specially?

Personally I think there is a Turkish problem why should Turks live in Turkey?

In a nut shell?

Our Kurdish problem was created at the beginning of our republic by getting away from Ottomani´s multinational structure and imposing the idea of ´one nation and that is the Turkish nation´ and then, as soon as it was realized, ´Kurds rebelled´; PKK is the last and the most successful of them..

happy?

You nothing,

I certainly know what you say.

Both Turkish and Kurdish people own the whole anatolia because we saved Anatolia together.

Are you an idiot not to understand that?

Everything can not be solved in a country in one day.

PKK is just making the situation harder. Because their involvement is based on hate!

PKK does not represent our families Kurdish groons, brides, my Kurdish friends and millions of innocent silent Kurdish people. It just represent provacaters like thehandsome. If you can describe PKK as successeful you are at least a syphatisan of Terrorists. Many people have some wishes. But but noone kill the other one for those.

If PKK was working for the Kurdish peoples sakes, they would not increase their attacks when Kurdish opening is being made.

I agree..We have a Turkish Problem!!

There is a population there and some of them still think this problem is a ´terrorism only´ problem..

When there is a war and if you see people saying ´I will give my son to the army for martyrdom- without asking any questions about why and how we are at war´ and protest when there is a possibility of peace (people protested against the Kurdish initive a few months ago), then we can say that ´yes we have a Turkish problem´ 

That is exactly what I am saying about politics-mainly/more like nationalism- changed everything..

Read my latest column about Armenians in Anatolia for example.. They were in Anatolia too.. But as everybody knows, they are not there  any longer..

Turks and Greeks lived long time together for example.. But they kicked the Turks out of Greece and  we kicked them out of Anatolia..

For people who dont believe ´PKK is a rebellion´

"PKK is the 29th rebellion of Kurds"..

Suleyman  Demirel..The Ex president of Turkey...

....

Not necessary

A beautiful bride was murdered in a sensless display of barbarism. May she rest in peace and may the hearts of her loved ones and family find peace.

May her death cause shame and remorse to those who contribute to hate and chaos.

May Allah have mercy on her soul.

Off..

get lost ya..

what is this cogency anyway? you dont make sense..

I dont want to get personal with a ´clever´ person like you...OK?

Happy?

I am 100% with you..

My country needs peace..NOW!!

You have over 5800 answers and thousands of debates.

But with me get lost ha?

Is this because you have no answers to my very clera statements?

How can a person talk about peace when he describes PKK as a successeful rebellion?

ha ha

Nooo..!!!

You are simply amazing!!!!!

Yes yes..

I have NO answer for your ´cleverly´ crafted posts..

Happy?

Is this your new tactic to convince people?

Look..Oince ´the genious´!!

There have been many rebellions staged by the Kurds..(Even your presidents accept them as rebellions but not you!! of course. They are not as ´clever´ as you are  )

PKK is the last one and the longest one, and they are still out there..

´Calling PKK the last and the most successful´ does not mean praising them but stating a fact. ie.. IRA is kind of successful too.. It does not change the fact that they are terrorists..it is just a stating something..

The claim that Kurds were in Anatolia before Turks is just wrong, it´s a propaganda for legitimazing their motive. Btw. Kurdish separatists really have to choose one of these contradicting claims:

- Whenever they feel like it they argue real Turkics are %x in Anatolia (give 3, 5, 9, 20 etc. for x) which would mean most Turks are native to the land.

- Yet they also argue they were here before Turks, and Turks came from C.A.

Aside from that, neither Turks were here from the start nor Kurds. Most Kurdish populated areas of today belonged to Armenians and Assyrians. They were gradually replaced in some areas by first Turkmen arrivals, do not forget that Diyarbakir was once the capital of a Turkish Atabegh state.

Anyway; what really defined the ethnic makeup of the region was Ottoman´s policy against Alevite Turkmens around the time of Yavuz and later on. Alevite Turkmens were killed or exiled or had to assimilate, whilst Kurds, being sunni, were encouraged to push into their former lands. Armenian deportation/genocide/whatever was the final significant event that also contributed to kurdish expansion. In the end, the region is very mixed today, Kurds, Zaza, Turkmen, Arabs, assimilated/converted Assyrians, Armenians, other ancient people etc.

However one thing is certain, although there has been significant effort by Kurdish institutes in Europe, Kurdish claims on the heritage of ancient peoples of the region such as Urartu were never accepted by any scientific authority. Thus saying "Kurds were there before" is a completely baseless claim, please prove it otherwise if you have the sources.

Aside from that, Mylo´s words are correct, there have been Kurdish immigration, even as close as the time of Gulf war when 500.000 Kurds of Northern Iraq who fled from Saddam were granted Turkish citizenship by Ozal. These people are estimated to be around 2 millions of population by now.

This alone proves that Turkish state has not had any negative population policy against Kurds, yet it has to from now on by the look of things. They should start by kicking out these 2 million people back to Barzani´s laps, then they should detect pseudo-leftist European immigrants of dubious Turkish heritage posing as Turks and pay a visit to them.

Exactly , problem is that, many disturbed by this, Greeks claim western Anatolia is their land as well, so mongolic Turks should return to Central Asia ...

....

So you are saying the people who built Göbekli Tepe or Çatalöyük...ummm...what? You are aware of the many different cultures have had their way within the current borders of Turkey?

Hattians, Akadian, Achaens, Hittitite, Ionian, Lycian, Pyrygia ...and on and on...not to mention it is part of the Fertile Crescent. Which is to say....the people who reside in Turkey are an amalgam of all the people who were there before.

Humanity has been interbreeding and moving around for millenia....

From what I understand, who lives in Turkey, who has Turkish citizenship is a Turk. You seem to be against nationalism, but until humanity learns to share resources, it is what we have. If you are a citizen of a country, it´s your duty to do what you can to improve the lot of your fellow citizens.

If you don´t have national pride, in the end, you won´t have a nation.

Kurdish people have always been used by their own feudal leaders.

How can a non individual make rebellion?

PKK is just another one of those which is managed by feudal leaders.

While feudal leaders be richer and more powerful, Kurdish society loses their welfare.

Ah I heard that thesis about ´Kurds are actually Turks´.. But many of the historians -apart from the ones paid by the states and trying to prove state´s bizaare theories- say that  when Turks started to run away from Mongolians and came to central Anatolia, Kurds were there as well as Armenians and many others .. I can dig it out who says that, of course but, to be honest, ´Kurds were actually Turks´ did not stick.. It was Kenan Evren´s and still a few racists historians idea in Turkey and not have any credibility at all.. And also most of the Turks when something goes wrong there such as ´honour killing etc´ they are so easy to ´seperate´ them as Kurds or non -Turks..

So I never thought we would debate here ´actually Kurds are Turks´ -or mountain Turks etc...

What you are saying about 500.000 Kurds or 2.000.000 kurds coming during gulf war is nothing to do with mylo´s ´kurds coming to Turkey generations after generations´.. is it?

One thing mylo said interesting was Mongolians coming to Anatolia long before Turks. That  was quite  interesting ..I hope he explains it abit more.. As far as I know, only around 2000 BC  some people from Caucasus -not sure if they were Mongolians- came.. But  after that ..Not sure..

I dont think we should kick Kurds out of the country but if necessary, we should send all the racists back to central Asia.. Because they dont fit into Anatolia´s multicultral mosaic..

You have to know the source of your statement especially if you talk about a historical event.

Otherwise you just be coffee house debater.

Regarding Diyarbakır Kurds were replaced to there before 1071 by Arabs to provide the domination of Islam, those are Mervanis and Sheddanis, and its right they were Kurds but in those lands as you said Assyrians and Armenians were living, very important point, Kurds were not majority, only the leaders are from Kurds, those were the puppet states established by Arabs. It is like Memluk state which located in Egypt, only the leaders were Turks. It does not mean then Egypt is the land of Turks because of Memluks and it does not mean South-East Anatolia is the land of Kurds because of Mervanis simply.

Off..

You are getting boring really..

Start with Selim Deringil http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selim_Deringil

You will find many historians saying the same thing..

My column

starts with :

Lets start this part 2 with some basic history:


As we all know, We, Turks, came from central Asia to Anatolia. And when we came the population was mainly Greek, Armenians, Kurds, Arabs, Assyrians, Chaldeans, Jews etc..Mainly, Armenians + Kurds were in the east and Greek population was around the shores of Black sea, Aegean sea and in Istanbul. Of course all those cultures were mixed up throughout history.

Big fallacy to say, south-eastern Anatolia is the land of Kurds. Armenians, Romans and Assyrians have right to say this but Kurds not. In history, there is not a trace of Kurdish culture, Kurdish monument defined in this area. The existence of Kurds in south-east Anatolia starts with Sultan Selim, before then the whole area was called Turcomania, in other words land of Turkmens. The land of Kurds were between the north-east of today´s Iraq and north-west of today´s Iran, up to south of Van lake, not more, but sout east of Anatolia never been the land of Kurds.

Here are some ethnic conflicts;

Turk - Kurt: USA and Israel wants to control Turkey´s foreign policy.

Hungarian - Romanian: USA is located in Romania as the most important partner in the Black Sea

Bosnian-Serbian-Albenian: USA and Germany was in a serious struggle and some parts efficiency places are shared.

Tutsi-Hutu: Their feudal leaders wanted them to fight. Now Congo´s Gold and diamonds are owned by Israel. Israel is one of the most significant seller of jewellery

Uzbek - Kyrgyz: USA and Russia is in a efficiency struggle. They both have bases.

The list can be enlarged.

So whoever tries to deepen ethnic conflicts are just working for super powers sakes. The fighters are always the losers. Just the superpowers wins at the end of these conflicts.

Taliban was used and gunned by the USA against Russia but just after the cold war ends they have been USA´s enemy.

PKK will lose too. Because they own their involvement to other countries support.

We are living in peace with Kurds for a thousand years. PKK is the enemies of Kurds and Turks. They just want to create an ethnic conflict.

Offf puff aghhh oghhh why dont you talk like a real man?

That does not make any sense. You give me a persons link just to try to support you silly statements. Where does he tell that? What is the basis of his ideas?

One more info; according to results of census of population in 1927, Kurds were 8% of the population which approximately 1 million. Now they are nearly 18%, very good population of a race which claimed to be assimilated and oppressed. Till 1960´s the cities as we call Kurdish like Van,Diyarbakır, Ağrı, Bitlis the populationf of Turks 60%, interesting, huh?

Additionally Diyarbakir´s Bismil was established by the Basmil tribe of Turkmens. The center of Diyarbakır was a Turkish speaking city till 60´s, many important writers, artists were from there, and majority was Turks but today in center of Diyarbakır Turkish population is just 10%. It seems Turks very much assimilated...

Perhaps Alameda was alluding to the "hate and chaos" that appears to have developed on this thread. 

Of course, historians may be biased too.

The arguments here descend into personal issues on all sides and this detracts from what could otherwise be an informative debate and that , IMO, disrespects the sad events that take place in Turkey, whether it be the imprisonment of children, "honour" killings, terrorist attacks and more.

There are a lot of Wikipedia references in your columns and I do understand that they are there to inform TC members of Turkey´s history but I would prefer more original historical links, rather than Wiki links, simply because I don´t want to spend time clicking on the many links given in the Wiki links . . . it´s like a maze in there!  I also noticed that one of the references in your column was actually being disputed on the Wikipedia site (even there, they have their differences )

I´m not criticising you personally for using Wiki, it´s a very useful tool, but it, along with mountains of other documentation out there on the Armenian/Kurdish/Turkish issues hotly debated here, is not immune to bias.  We all tend to choose the literature we believe in order to "prove" our points.

It´s interesting to note what Wiki has to say:

The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Questionable_sources

I guess we, as readers of the many debates here, have to make up our minds about what we think may be the truth, based on the information presented. 

But in the end, hot or not, the debates are informative, both about the history of Turkey and the feelings that still exist today.

So, insults aside, I would like to thank everyone who contributes, but please move it to another thread.

I am sure Alameda will be happy to inform us about what she ment.

But if she means ´hate and chaos in this thread´, I would have said the same thing as for some people, anything, even a horrible killing might be a reason to show their racism and hatred towards some people in my country unfortunately..

We, mongolic turks of central asia will not receive you, because you are europeans.

Deport yourselves to ... hmmm ... to ... hmmm . .. there where you are!

On the other hand we invite you mongolic Turks of Central Asia to Turkey. You know these Kurds are reproducing very fast (3 or 4 wives, 10 to 20 children) and we cannot compete with ´em. Soon we will be minority here if we don´t do something about it. You are welcomed here. Please

Hahahaha you got me with your hospitality.

We, Kazakhs unfortunately cant come, our demography is very low, we need ourselves much to ourselves. We, too have Kurds and Poles.

 You are very hospitable for your genetically mutated relatives!  Then my dream about riding horse in Taklamakan desert as my ancestors did about 1000 years ago won´t come true 

Dont cry, scalpel. There is a solution for you. Marry a Mongolian girl and you will become a central asian.

Are you sure about your ancestors though?

I never heard of Mongolic Turks..

I think Mongolians belong to yellow race like Chinese but Turks are not..

Actually, Turks being related to Mongolians comes from some of Turks who were trying to cast Turks as a superior race!!

When they were looking at historical heroes of the Turks, they though having Chengiz Khan who was very successful about conquering  and everything, as one of our heroes would be a good idea..

But there was a problem: he was a Mongolian..

So what do our racist do? Make more "fantasies" about Turks: Turks might be related to Mongolians or or Chengiz Khan was a Turk  (despite the fact that his entire army was Mongolians) 

A woman is shot in the head and everyone is arguing about Mongols?    I understand we have many Kurdish V. Turkish debates going on but the fact of the matter is this woman was shot by someone who is a terrorist.  Does this mean that every Kurdish person wants to shot someone in the head NO...Does it mean the all Turks are racist...NO...Does it mean the Turks are Mongols?  Who cares? 

I think Pinar saw enough violence in her final moments....we don´ t need to argue about her death.  May she rest in peace.

This poor girl was killed because of the exact kind of intolerance that you idiots are displaying in this forum.  It will never stop because people like you won´t let it! 

What an injustice that her death....or the death of THOUSANDS of others of all different ethnic backgrounds....doesn´t serve as a wake up call but only as a way to inflame rhetoric on either side of the fence.  That is the real tragedy here!

This will never end because for every Pinar out there....for every senselss murder of innocent people.....there are thousands of people like you who are more concerned with being right than doing right.

well, unfortunately when people use these kind of incidents to throw up all their hatred this happens..  

 These people?  Look in the mirror handsom....you are just as guilty.  You can´t see that you and those that think like you on either side of the debate (oience for example)....are the root of all of this bullshit.

This incessant need to be right all the time is just a snapshot of what happens between warring factions....a sampling of the larger, uglier problem!  No one stops.  No one says ok, this death was enough!  No one puts down their guns because they are "RIGHT"! 

There is no right or wrong anymore....all there is is a need to do one better than the last guy. 

Well you may think that way from the outside..

Show me one single post from me that I supported this war!!!

Show me one single post from me I said ´we will kill all of them´.

You are putting  warmongering people with the ones who "says enough is enough.. we need peace now" into to the same platform.. 

 I´m surprised that you would be so literal.   I never said that you posted anything like "we will kill them all" (you are much more careful than that).  But when you can´t stop...when you push and push and push your own agenda....you are in the same "platform".  The fact that you can´t see that is not surprising in the least! 

What´s really pathetic though is that I think most of the time you only continue your arguments because you can´t stand to be wrong or to lose. 

I dont have an agenda at all..I thought  you would have known this by now..

There is nothing wrong trying to stop a war or reminding people what  racism is, what is causing that war etc..!!

People who supported the Vietnam war were upset to see others telling them ´this war is a stupid war´.

You could not finish that war without upsetting the warmongering people!!

 You don´t want to believe that you are part of the problem and clearly no one can make you see that.   The problem is....both sides think the same way and until someone figures out that in fact, they are part of the problem and decides to make a change....there will be more Pinars´. 

I will let you have the last word as I know you MUST and I have said all I need to.

 Not really. My dad´s side is from Caucasia Batumi, and mom´s side is from Balkans Kosova...And my kid is half Kurdish! I can´t be a Turkish racist but some little brains think I am.

lets just buy a TC pony that eveyone can ride

Well sorry but, we see all those hawks in both camps..

I  dont blong to any of them.. I never was..

I am a person who is refused to join  the main stream  and be a racist..

And I am well aware that ´refusing to join the main stream and reminding people what racism is´  make some people crazy..

And I am not sorry for that..

And if you think that stand of ´I dont want to be one of the people in the crowd´ makes me part of the problem..

Then let it be..

I still believe getting up and saying ´I dont agree with your stupid war´ to the face of hawks is the right thing to do.. 

Thehandsom you have explained your idea and I believe it is very well understood.

There is no need to continue with this. Stop implying that your fellow site users are racists etc. Racism is not just a shame, it has legal consequences too. There are also legal consequences of calling someone a racist on a public platform. If you continue with this, I will have to delete your posts.

I am trying to be as concise as possible. Don´t call people racists, bigots etc.

Those criticising thehandsom on the same ground, this warning applies to you too. Please observe the site rules. There is nothing to be gained from flaming one another...

You always have that freedom to delete my posts..

However, instead of trying to delete my posts because you think my posts are implying some people might be racists, you should be more careful about what posts constitutes to racism...

Being against racism is not a shame but being a racist is!!

Hansom, you sounded like you are into genetics of Turks when you provided some percentage of central Asion genes in today´s population of Turkey.

Didn´t you know Kazaks are descendants of Turkic tribes and Mongol groups, so are Tatars?

Girleegirl, you may not like my angry writing style.

If i was someone who does not feel the harms of terrorism i would criticize myself too.

However, our 40000 citizens died because of terrorism. That hurts very much.

Terrorism goes on in Turkey because some people introduce them as freedom fighters although they are just bloody terrorists. Some people tries to convince other people that PKK is working for Kurdish society although PKK just uses Kurdish people and its harmful for Kurdish people mostly. Some people tries to turn the ethnic differences to hatred although ethnic differences are the base fertileness of countries. Some people can describe a terrorist organisation as successeful and they can unblushinglycan introduce themselves as peaceful.

Turks and Kurds are brothers and sisters. Millions of people think like that. But just like a classroom turns to be chaotic by two rapscallion students, the country turns to be chaotic by a very little amount of people who supports terrorism.

These people do not want the problem to be solved. They own their involvement to the hatred that they create.

If these terrorism supporters let us free, Turkish and Kurdish people lives in harmony, with very high socio-economic living standarts.

As i told before, I am Turk as much as I am Kurt. If someone can blame me with being racist, he must suspect of his own subconscious. Especially, if this person blames Turkish people in all his writings.

First of all, I have to mention that if a person believes, "people suddenly become terrorists out of blue" and doesn´t ask the question "why these people are taking arms and dying and killing people for something; what is the problem?" is not at the level of ´beyond the coffee house discussions´!!

We talked here extensively: Terrorism, most of the times, is the result of some underlying problems.. ie..Hamas reverts to terrorism, but it is the result of Israel´s treatments of Palestinians.. IRA used to do terrorism , they think Northern Ireland must belong to Ireland..
Recognizing the  cause of IRA terrorism does not mean you are supporting terrorism. IRA has been  a successful ´terrorist organization´..That does not mean ´IRA is not a terrorist organization´!!
If someone still believes that PKK is NOT a result of our almost ´100 years old KURDISH PROBLEM but terrorism only´ will be a mistake. It will be an immature mistake in a gigantic scale..
Our army and pathetic politicians tried to concince us as this is a ´terrorism only problem´ for almost 30 years.
The result?
-we have a Kurdish opening. We are giving some rights to Kurds!! if it was only a terrorism problem why are we giving these rights then? why the army is NOW accepting we have ´a problem´ and this problem can not be sorted by military means? it was not problem of terrorism..It was bloody related to denying Kurdish rights!!!
-If it was a terrorism only problem and that was supported by the foreign elements only, why on earth our president -and many- keeps saying ´Kurdish problem is our internal problem and we will sorted out in here´?
-If it was a terrorism only problem it could have been finished by now with the military means as we have the second biggest army in Nato. Why could not we finish those terrorists in 30 years?
(actually, people in Turkey started to change their mind about this issue anyway IN RECENT YEARS..Though, the racist party which gets 20 % of the votes, says this is a terrorism only problem. The -so called- social democrat party almost says the same thing because they are the opposition..Both parties do NOT get any votes from the KURDS.. That is the greatest indication that KURDS don´t accept what those both parties are saying.. Kurds THEMSELVES are rejecting the idea of ´this is A terrorism only problem´. KURDS are not voting for the parties that say this is terrorism only..That is the bottom line)

When we come to number of people died in our Kurdish problem, that 40.000 is ´slightly wrong´.. The actual number is much higher.. We have to look at who died and how!!
I remember giving the official values in my earlier posts.. If people investigate who got killed by whom, the numbers are shocking!! It is easy to say ´ah 40.000 dead. terrorism ect.´ But if you don´t have guts to investigate "who died and how; how many times Turkish government was convicted in EU human rights courts; how many villages got burnt with the idea of ´fighting terrorism´ etc; how many people got killed by the deep state-they say 17.000. That number itself is a shocking number!!- how our own officers collided with the PKK terrorists; How many ex PKK terrorists were used in this war; how many local militias were paid by the state etc´, what you are saying will always be hanging up in the air as ´the words from the army bulletins´ which contains  every single indication to make people skeptical that they are hiding something..

Lets look at the situation of PKK. It is a terrorist organization..They have been fighting the second biggest army of Nato for almost 30 years.. They are still up there..in the mountains.. The longest Kurdish uprising was not more than 2 years in the past. PKK´s fight described by our ex president Demirel as "a rebellion of Kurds". 26th (If I am not wrong) Kurdish rebellion!!
if this is one -pkk one - terrorism only..what about the others?!!! were they all terrorism only? our ex president was wrong all together?
Peh!!

The matter of fact is that looking at the Kurdish problem as ´terrorism only problem´ COST my country a lot.. We don´t want this problem to cost anymore; NOT want to waste any more lives..
This has not been terrorism only..It was the result of ´us not giving the basic right to Kurds´.

As the head of PKK said once, ´changing one item only in our constitution will finish the war´.
As a matter of fact, if people are ready to say ´we have KURDS in this country and they are as much citizen as TURKs. They live in Turkey and they are ENTITLED TO HAVE ANYTHING TURKS HAVE -such as language; education; recognition etc´ there wont be any Kurdish problem yet alone terrorism problem..

I will try to summarize the problem according to my point of view.

There is a terrorist organization called PKK (The Workers’ Party of Kurdistan). They attack to the security forces, raid villages and make bombings. Their biggest income occurs by drug, human and gun smuggling. Foreign intelligence services condone their smugglings because these services use PKK especially for gun smuggling. Also these intelligence services keep feeding PKK to use them for destabilizing and weakening Turkey so that forcing Turkish Government to do their wishes especially in foreign policy issues. Also these services do not want a powerful Turkey in order Turkey owns a significant potential to be the leader of the region and hinder their plans for the region. The region we mention here is the Middle East in the strict sense and Afro - Eurasia in the broad sense.

Some foreign countries directly support PKK by providing those guns, financial assets and training their militants. Some countries provide PKK broadcasting opportunities and most countries let PKK to be organized in their territories.

There is a political party called BDP (The Party of Peace and Democracy) they have 20 parliamentarians in the parliament.  The management level of that party is in cooperation with the PKK. Their mission is to show the ethnical differences as the reasons of social disintegration. Most of their statements aim to turn ethnical differences into hatred to Turks. They claim Kurdish people are second class citizens in Turkey. They introduce the poverty of Kurdish people as a result of their ethnic origins. They represent themselves as Kurdish people’s defenders. They aim to earn Kurdish societies’ support with that way. And they receive a significant support from Kurdish people. The reason of that support is the trust of Kurdish society to Kurdish origined people and some Turkish governments’ especially military coup government’s oppressive administrations.  Although military coup government’s oppressive administrations were valid for the whole country regardless the ethnicity, political backgrounds, social groups etc. by the effect of the provokers Kurdish people has believed that they are the only group who is being affected of that administration. The biggest mistake of the Turkish Government is to lose innocent Kurds trust depending on these oppressive administrations.

The civil governments of Turkey especially none super nationalist ones believes in there is no problem between Kurdish people and Kurdish people and Kurds and Turks are brothers and sisters. The majority of Turkish people think that way.  Kurdish initiative has begun based on this idea. However, PKK has begun to increase their attacks after that initiative has been released. BDP displayed a serious opposition to those policies. Because both PKK and BDP owe their involvement to hatred among the society. They do not want the Kurdish people to be richer and more educated because it is easier to convince and use people who have almost nothing to lose. That is why they want to keep Kurdish society under good living conditions that is why municipalities under BDP government in the South East do not serve a qualified service to the citizens.

What Turkish Government must do is to cut the support channels of the PKK. A well organized public relations work must been performed to earn the Kurdish societies trust back and show Kurdish society that the PKK and BDP wants them to remain poor and uneducated rather than representing their rights. The government has to show that the ropes of PKK and BDP are in the hands of foreign intelligence services.

What we, ordinary people can do is, just not to accept terrorism as a way of “claim of rights” not to let someone who introduce ethnic differences as struggle reasons. To refuse the ones who want to deepen ethnic differences and use them as reasons of disintegration. Not to believe their so called peace expressions. Say them ethnic differences are our main fertileness. Turkish and Kurdish societies’ links are very strong enough to solve all problems that provokers and government mistakes created.

Everybody has to stop supporting terrorism and introducing ethnic differences as the reasons of disintegration. Otherwise we will lose more Pınars and more Şilans.

 You seriously want to justify terrorism???  What is wrong with you? 

Do you hear about my people, the Native Americans, going around killing innocent people because of injustices to them?  NO! 

There is NO EXCUSE for terrorism.  EVER.  PERIOD.  END OF STORY.

 I don´t give a second thought to your writing style. 

Perhaps you think because I am American I haven´t been touched by terrorism but you would be quite wrong and it hurts just as much whether it is one, 3000 or 40000 who died.

The fact remains that as long as people perpetuate hatred and continue to spread it in the name of righteousness, this will never end.

I think you should go back and read what I wrote..

I was not trying to EXCUSE the terrorism..

"You will never ever finish terrorism without knowing what  is causing it"..

You have to KNOW what the problem is in the first place, to solve the problem.

In fact Turkey´s Kurdish Problem is a great example for what is wrong with ´terrorism only´ approach..

Not only in Turkey actually, you can not finish terrorism without knowing what is causing it anywhere in the world..

PERIOD..END OF STORY...NO MORE STORY TO TELL.. NIGHT NIGHT 

The thread started about the tragic loss of a beautiful young woman who 40 days before had been a bride. She  loss her life by the hand of a terrorist organisation, but yet again it has turned into an argument about the rights and wrong of terrorists and all terrorism is is the use of violence and imtimidation to achieve politcal ends.  Terrorist will never be stopped because  there is always someone who wants to feel they are more powerful than others and will do anything to gain this control.

I think you misunderstood the entire argument here..

This is not about wrongs or right of terrorism or terrorists.. It never was..

This is about ´trying to prevent the future deaths by getting rid of the  conditions that are creating the terrorism´.  (UK did it, Spain did why not us? )

We have been crying for almost 30 years because we did not look at what was making those terrorists as terrorists.. 

We dont want to cry more. 

I am sorry for the loss of an innocent woman. I am not very good at offering condolences nor do I expect people to share my own pain. There is one real suffering here, it is the pain borne by the family and close friends. Everyone else should at least try to be respectful. There is no way we can truly share their pain. We can not make up for the grief that will probably last a life time by uttering a few smart words.

There is a certain group of people who call themselves social democrats, socialist or the like. There is no doubt these people are fond of reading, writing and talking. The problem is they read books that put them in a perpetual vicious circle. The more they read the more isolated their brains become. This cycle turns them into individuals unable to feel, think or desire anything that conflicts with the train of thought they are fed.

Their philosophers have provided them with an oversimplified understanding of life and the world. The friends and foes are strictly classified. Canned statements about select political arguments are also provided. So, whoever talks about a certain matter he says exactly the same thing about it. This is more like a primary school setting; if you follow some basic rules you stay out of harm´s way.

This mechanism makes you virtually bullet proof. Most often criticized aspects of the ideology are protected by sacred verses written by Marx or Engels. The more you know about them the more sophisticated you appear. No body questions whether there is life beyond the ideology. Thanks to the colored books they read, the world is so simple, people are so straigthforward and nothing can go wrong in it. Voila! 

This is almost the case here actually..

You can even NOT argue ´about the peace´ with brain washed people..

Even going back to them with simple ..very simple arguments like ´peace or not´, ´are you with the war or with the peace?´

Their washed and dried brains wont accept the fact that they are THE PROBLEM..

We have been listening these for almost 30 years and my country has lost almost 70.000 people.

Once more:

are you against the killing or not? any killing!!

are you against the war or not?  any war!!

These are just simple questions!!! Very simple..

If you are unable to come up and say  clearly ´I am AGAINST ANY WARS, I AM AGAINST ANY KILLINGS´

You are the problem..

I personally AGAINST ANY TYPE OF KILLING AGAINST ANY TYPE OF WAR..

 No i did not misunderstand. UK got rid of terrorists!! really??

Of course you did..

And of course you misunderstood..

Show me where and who is talking about the rights of terrorists!!

If you think that saying ´oh hang on a second, we have been in a circle..30 years ago we said this is terrorism only and 30 years later, we still have the same problem. lets look at what is causing  the real problem here ´ means talking about rights of the terrorists, you are WRONG.

As far as the UK is concerned..Yes..Of course.. You managed to persuade IRA to lay their arms.. You spoke to them.. Your government spoke to IRA in order to finish the terrorism..

AND YOU FINISHED it..

No more people are dying because of sectarian violence ..

See.. there is a way!!!

Why does PKK increase their terrorist attacks and why does BDP display an opponent role when Turkish Goverment begun Kurdish initiative if they really became terrorist with some justifiable reasons?

Why are they against the policies which offers broader rights to Kurdish people?

The reason of terrorism is not related to Kurdish peoples´ rights. It is just about power expectations of PKK and  BDP´s leader level and also some feudal leaders´ in the region.

Whatever they do, Turkey is stron enough to solve all kinds of problems in spite of those terrorists obstecling efforts.

Kurdish initiative is being prevented by the nationalists..

It has been frozen!!

I dont think neither PKK nor BDP are against it. The main opposition to Kurdish reforms is coming from Turkish nationalists (from people who told us as ´this is terrorism only problem´- of course, if they support Kurdish reforms, it means you are accepting the fact that it was NOT terrorism only; there were some other problems- Existence of Kurdish opening itself is the sole indication of "why it was not a terrorism only problem")..

If the initiative  was not frozen, I doubt these attack would have not hapenned..

PKK militants would lay arms and come to Turkey.. But after the first wave in which we saw pkk members giving up arms and entering Turkey, nationalist sentiments STOPPED the initiative!!!. I think this is why PKK attacks are happening now.

Implement ´the initiative´, there wont be any attacks, I think..

There is a way..

Some people talks about war in Turkey!

There is no war in Turkey.

There is terrorrism.

What do these people expect?

The terrorists will kill women, children, old, civil, soldier, police etc. with bitchy attacks and the Turkish army will let them do and do not respond them?

The terrorists have to give up with their guns!

Some people can think terrorism have justifiable reasons. I can´t believe that! Even capital punishment is not allowed even to the most bloody terrorists, what can a country do to desereve 40000 deaths???!!!

No no! The only reason is their power expectations and they just use Kurdish people for that!

It is the peace we need.

Peace is made between two fighting parties..

If we dont make peace with PKK , with whom are we going to make peace with?

who are we fighting against? (that is the situatioon most of the nationalists would not accept..They would rather prefer to see more people dying than accepting the fact we have to make a peace with pkk..If PKK is not going to give up arms, how can we even think to make peace??? )

We do have a Kurdish Problem in Turkey..And the terrorism is just the end product of it. 

That is what it was in the first place..

If we were able to identify this problem in the first place, we would not have lost all those people..

 I explained before, people who has no clue about "who got killed and how? how many villages being destroyed with pretext of ´fighting terrorism´, how many Kurds being killed by the security forces etc ", should have ask themselves if they have right and enough knowledge to talk about our almost 100 years old Kurdish Problem..

Crying ´but it is 40.000´ without knowing above  can be described, at least, as the naivety 

Turkish goverment tried that too. They accepted 36 terrorists from their camps. That happened 3 or 4 months ago in Habur border check point. What did the terrorists do? They used these 36 people to provake the other people! And then they increased theri attacks.

If an opportunity appears on the solution of the problem PKK becomes crazy.

BTW i am not surprised that you have no answers why PKK increased their terrorists after Kurdish initiative and why is BDP opposite to these policises.

They are fed with chaos. They don´t want any problem to be solved.

We ordinary people have to stop deffending that they may have reasons for terrorism.

Check the post 123..I answered that ..

well what happened in Habur showed us the Turkish Problem we have..

This is a peace..yes?

We kept asking those people to lay arms and surrender...yes?

They did.. yes?

What did you expect then? a sorry face from them?

And what is OUR problem to see 100.000 people danced with their entrance? Why are we upset to see those people celebrating because they thought the war was over?

If we, Turks, are getting angry because the peace is being made, because Kurds celebrating the war is over, we have a problem there!!!!

If people are sending their sons into war without blinking their eyes but getting angry with kurds -our brothers/sisters ´ celebrating the peace, we do have a problem and that is ´the Turkish problem´.

We ordinary people should come up and say ´we dont want this war any more´

IRA has been  a successful ´terrorist organization´..That does not mean ´IRA is not a terrorist organization´!!

How successful? Blowing up children and families? A full hate of the UK towards them. Tell me what has it earned? Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland are still seperate after 30 odd years of terrorisim,  there is now a full dis´armamant does that make the IRA successful?

I´ve been a successful bounder that doesn´t make me a womaniser hahaha!

How much sleuce can fall from a persons mouth?

Man you talk a lot of shite sometimes, and i´m being politeful

So in your head anyone who kills people and getting away with it is ´successful´? what a wonderful philosophy, so the World Bankers in recent times have brought us to the edge of a depression, they are successful? The guy who batters his wife to death because what hw believed is right, he is successful? what a load of crap!!!!

Dont worry, I dont think you will ever be a good womaniser..

I would recommend ´bum slightly higher´ next time. Lips  shining may help too...

I know your politeness.. Many of us know your politeness.. You have showed us several times  in the chat room!! So you do not need to repeat it in the forum.

I am not going to talk about IRA with you..(I am so scared to talk to an ´expert´ on that issue ) 

If I were you, I would stick to ´British economy and how much ´back of the lorry  immigrants´ are consuming  your resources´..

 At last what you say is true

A person who defends terrorism as a way of claiming rights does not have a right to talk about peace.

Turkish citizens regardless their ethnic origins will acquire high level of socio - economic rights despite of these people try to obstacle that!

What i am sure after all these statements are; thehandsome is a sypmhatisan of terrorists. He is a liar and his a provaker!

A person who has no idea what is going on in his own country and what is causing his own people to take arms, does not have a clue about how many people have died and how they died and is not able to say ´I am against all the killings and all the wars´ should not have face to talk about  anything really..

Ah, apart from football of course..

I am not a liar but you are AN IGNORANT MAN #

ps,,I keep asking you question such as number of burnt villages, how many died by whose bullets.. 

Are you ignoring them to prove all of us  you are a coward person as well as ignorant? Or just coward or just ignorant?

Come on..It is time for you to rant again ´terrorism only´

What you write about me have no sense. Because you are nothing! You are the most disgusting person i´ve met nowadays. You can bastardize everything and throw mud to anything that is opposite to your terrorist ideas.

Everything related to me and my statements are clear.

I leave the comments to other users.

What cyristal clear is, you are a syphatisan of terrorists, you are liar and you are provaker!

Woo hoo

So no answers to my questions?.. You are that scared?

So when you look at the mirror  do you see the IGNORANCE  and COWARDNESS?

How does it feel to come up here like ´ouh ouh I know this´ as excited as a child and sit back ´ahhh I did not know that´?

You would rather leave.. eh?

What about the watermelon?

Please stay..

Hansom or someone who calls himself thusly said:

Turks and Greeks lived long time together for example.. But they kicked the Turks out of Greece and  we kicked them out of Anatolia..

What do you mean by kicked? There was an agreement for the mutual population exchange between Greek and Turkish states. Are you talking about it or what?

So no answers to my questions?.. You are that scared?

well you still actually haven´t answered my first question The Oracle´... I mean the Handsome, why is it in thousands of years that according to you the Turks and Kurds have lived together happily, when at the same time a faction such as the PKK exists? answer this not long winded crap and i´ll probably believe it, and yes I have read the previous posts, but i´m asking you now if the Turks and Kurds have been so happily living together why the PKK?

Yes.. I am..

Happy now?

Si--

Apart from the agreements for mutual population exchange, Huge number of people were forced, intimidated and kicked out of their countries.. This happened in all of those countries.. Bulgaria, Greece, Serbia, Turkey, Armenia, Israel etc.. Almost all of them ethnic cleansed the ´others´.

Not all the immigrants gave their consent and this was done by all parties!! (It was a very common characteristic in almost all eastern europe and middle east countries) 

During the Turkish War of Independence, many Ottoman subjects of Greek origin sided with the invading Greek Army ...and openly rejoiced the arrival of the invaders, leading to many atrocities against their non-Greek neighbors; they were absolutely sure of the eventual Greek victory.

Whether or not they were right to side with the invaders of the Empire, is not my concern. What I know and history records however, is that the Greek Army dismally lost the war and abandoned their supporters in their hurry to run back to Greece. They did not even stop to look back.

The war had ended. Victorious Turkish soldiers were released from the army and were returning home, often to find their villages burnt down by their ethnically Greek neighbors. Young Turkish Republic was just out of a very long spell of wars..poor and very very tired...there was no way to stop an obvious vendetta, unless a way was found to evacuate the Anatolian Greeks to the safety of Greece.

The reverse was also true. Every Turkish village within the boundaries of Greece was a sad reminder to the returning Greek soldiers. Empire Turks, now in Greece, were no safer.

ATATURK saw that a mutual exchange of population was a sad, but an absolute necessity. VENIZELOS agreed and the exchange was made. No bloodshed on either side.

VENIZELOS later officially nominated ATATURK for NOBEL PEACE PRIZE, mainly for this act.

You are like a mosquito which disturbs people by keep buzzing.

You are even arguing with a person who always says “Kurdish people are my full brothers and sisters” and “hopefully we will acquire high socio - economic standards together” because you are fed with fights.

While people speak of ending terrorism and curing the wounds you keep asking “but who started the fight” like a kid and you sweep the conflict.

Your sayings about the beginning of PKK are lie in any case. Trying to introduce a terrorist organisation as a heroic public rebellion is terrorism itself. PKK is just a bloody terrorist organisation that is supported by foreign intelligence services.

Even if your sayings were right, while the government tries to improve living standards of Kurdish people, keep asking “but who started”, increasing terrorist attacks, and being opposite to these policies is slavishness. Translation of these is not to want serenity in the region. When you do these you unblushingly can talk about peace! What a hypocrite you are.

What you cannot stand is the possibility of the solution of the problems by the Turkish Government. The possibility of brotherly life of Kurdish and Turkish people makes you sick. Because you do not like a powerful and peaceful Turkey. What you want is improvement of PKK and BDP. You want to create the suitable conditions and at the end split South East Anatolia from Turkey. You are trying to disseminate the ideas which prepare the infrastructure of that bloody plan.

You are trying to imply that PKK owns room for negotiation in order they have killed thousands of people for the last three decades. However, the main reason of the problems is PKK itself. PKK is the enemy of both Turks and Kurds. While the government tries to cure the wounds that PKK made, implying that they have room for negotiation is supporting terrorism.

No no, Turkish and Kurdish people will solve all the problems. But no concessions will be given to terrorists. Kurdish people will feel that Turkish Government works to provide them highest level of living standards.  We already took a long way. At the end, Kurdish people themselves will externalize the biggest obstacle in front of them, PKK.

That day, you will be ashamed. Talk a bit more until that day. Scatter your poisons.

But don’t forget, Good ones always win!

I will be on a business visit until the middle of July with limited internet access. I hope you pull yourself together when I am not here.

Anyone, who reads the statements finds out who writes informative posts and who keeps repeating his own agenda with different words.

I can describe where you shall be with that style but will not write it in public.

As i told before, you are the most disgusting and provaking person i met nowadays.

gee I get  in trouble for just saying a posting is lame and this is allowed ........... tuhhhhhhh

Ha ha

You got to be joking me

All I am saying is very simple even you CAN understand:

"we have a KURDISH PROBLEM and the terrorism is the side effect of it"

"If we solve our KURDISH PROBLEM, terrorism will go away"

OK?

Do you get it?

Shall I say it again?

BTW..I did not know you WERE that scared of me . 

Dont get upset!!

Come on, gives us more examples like how Diyarbakir -a Kurdish populated city- is under developed because of their support for terrorism but Antalya on the other hand which does not suport terrorism has become rich..

Stop trying to get personal..Really..You wont gain anything and you will make yourself a lauging stock..

Why dont you stick to the subjects you think you know best!! Maybe footie?

Clearly, your ideas about Kurdish problem of Turkey is not beyond  delusional fantasies.

All those Foreign powers; intelligence agencies; countries dont like Turkey to become a power base; we are all innocent; they are our brothers; but they have to accept that they Turks first; they are still feudal but our brothers etc..

Come on!!

oeince,

I agree with you that he keeps repeating himself and everyone gets sick of it.

You know what we had a Kurdish member here (named ciko) even he got sick of his posts about Kurds and asked for his account´s deletion. I remember his post very well but I couldn´t find it today when I searched for that post. Edit: Upon LIR´s post I tried user chico and the posts I am talking about are not deleted. Apperantly somebody with admin rights must have deleted it. So this guy is tolerated by our admins here. So beware you can get deleted because of this fight with him. Everybody who doesn´t agree with him is easily labeled as racist, fascist etc. and admins are apperantly on his side.

In the past, many valuable members were deleted because of the fights with this guy (ex: cynicmistic) or simply left this site (ex: erdinc) because of his terrorising this site with his usual stuff.

You know what, even I found myself with this guy one time in a fight. Now I look back it and think that it was waste of time, really.

Liar, Provaker and Terrorist,

Go on go on. These are your last flutters.

I am going to work for the following month to get rid of your fathers.

You go on to annoy people like mosquitos which have no profit for the world.

Thank you for introducing yourself and your kind to me again. I needed to remember that!

Thanks si++

Hope to see you around after the middle of July

NOOOO

Dont gooo...

What about the watermelon?

So you will be working for the full month?

Just to set the record straight ciko opened a new account as chico (because he was having trouble logging in as ciko) and you can see all his posts here.  To my knowledge none of chico´s posts were removed by an admin - his ´farewell´ post is definitely there.  He then returned again a few months´ later under another nickname - although I haven´t seen him post for 3 or 4 months.

  DJXXX

I hope you all now realize, if you didn´t before, that he is no one to be taken seriously or listened to...pay him no mind. Don´t let him draw you into an argument. This is his tactic to spread his crap...let him talk to the walls!

Please don´t use personal insults in TC forums. From our site rules:

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9. Personal attacks or insults towards other users will not be tolerated. Posts with negative remarks about another person´s character that result in or are a cause of conflict or resentment are also subject to deletion by moderators or admins. If someone posts an insulting comment towards you, do not reply to it, it will only start a flame-war, instead send a private message to one of the forum moderators and they will take care of it. Avoid personal correspondence in the forum, use private messages for that purpose. 

Admins and moderators have the right to delete posts if these posts contain abusive, vulgar, insulting language, are particularly offensive or if posts contain personal attacks (or negative statements about another person´s character if it results in a conflict between members). 

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This is a warning; continued violation of site rules may result in deletion of user account. 

Admin,

May have a suggestion here? With this kind of fights we lost many valuable members (ex: cynicmystic, sptritzer). Apperantly they got carried away too much and couldn´t hold back and stop. I really had appreciated cynicmystic´s contribution in language section for example. Can´t we find another way to deal with this?

My suggestion would be that maybe you could suspend such people´s posting rights  for a period of time (say 1 day for the first time, if they repeat the same behaviour 2 days so on). I am sure they would have time to think about it all and probably they would be in a different state of mind when they are able to post again so probably they would not continue those fights they were involved.

DJ greets u

 dear admin, dont u see the posts contained pictures of thehandsom and his followers below:

http://www.turkishclass.com/turkish/forum/forumTitle_27720_474

these are not abusive, vulgar????

anyway I will add their other pictures I wont u wont delete these

DJ kiss uxx

 Dear janissaridis....if you truly have an issue with what someone else has posted, please send a PM to an administrator.  Complaints that are made within a thread can easily be missed. 

Some of the contributors to this site wear masks on their faces.

Its no use waiting for the day they will drop their masks; that will never happen, because they dont have any real faces behind those masks.

Why not take a look at just who has been the provocatour each time...over and over and over again?  It is annoying, why he is allowed to get away with it...over and over and over again...many valuable members have gotten disgusted and left.

The invidious nature of his posts is more troublesome than blatant name calling he. The purport of his posts is not what he claims and his overall tone comes across as condescending towards others and insincere in regard to the political subject matter.   As an onlooker and "ignorant" wanting to learn more, I am always left feeling cheated and I blame his tactics.  Whether I agree with his political views or not becomes irrelevant because I don´t like his manner.

I don´t think the contributions, he makes in the translation threads, outweigh the harm he does to the TC image elsewhere in the forum.

3 suspects connected with the attack have been captured during an operation in Istanbul.

Source: here