You two are not at all fun to talk to, barba and theh. You don´t tolerate the difference of opinion. You think that you are always right. I know you hate it when someone disagrees with you and your propaganda, and you start to label them as racist, fascist, antisemitist, uneducated, ignorant and so. You terrorize people with your barrage of hate and bigotry. And you two seem to forget where Science starts from. Should I remind you that it starts from doubt; it does not start from believing. The moment you believe in something, you ahve stopped inquiring. Why should I blindly believe what you tell me? I am not so naive as to believe all what I am told. But I do try and find the best answers. But yes, there is always some truth in a story. But the problem is to find which part is true and which is not. I am not saying that holocaust didn´t exist, but there are some parts that are hard to believe.

I have never been racist in my life even though you have accused me of it many times. I can remember no post of yours which excluded the word "racist". This is not because all the people you are angry with are racists, but probably because your vocabulary is limited or because you are not creative enough to use some alternative words.

Do you know what,  I am living in İstanbul/kadıköy/Caddebostan where most of the Jewish population in the city resided. I have many Jewish neighbors, clients and, of course, friends. I am not anti-semitist, if you must know.

Do you know something else? I was 10 when I was first read "Anne Frank´ın Hatıra Defteri".

Well, I won´t bother to answer you two anymore.

There are no strong enough words in the dictionary to describe the horrible nature of the pogroms the Jews in Europe were subjected to, by the racist Nazi regime. There is little point in arguing with numbers though. Numbers point out to Russian people, civilian and military alike as the greatest sufferers of the atrocities committed by the Nazis. Think of a population as large as the entire inhabitants of the city of Istanbul vanishing from the face of the Earth in the most savage manner and in the matter of months. That was at least one of the most horrible episodes of the WWII. I have never seen anyone singing laments for the lost Russian lives, no comemorations are being held, no credits are being offered by Holywood or the like. This catastrophy is buried in the ashes of history and it is only remembered by the Russians. You are free to curse them, mock them or deny their terrible fate, no one will stop you from doing that unlike the Holocaust the mere denial of which will bring forth legal consequences. What a great sense of equality. It is possibly because no one is funding the Russians, nor do they fund the Poles or even the Gypsies. 

When the catastrophy in Europe took place, the tremor of it was felt strongly among Jewish communities. A social dysfuntion developed filling many Jews with hatred and a desire to take revenge. Two options were on the table: to form an independent Jewish state or to continue living in small communities scattered accross Europe and elsewhere. To realize the first option, some plans were needed to be made and those were made with precision comparable to armed bank robbery. The Arabs were robbed of their land by force, and the Israeli state was founded on it. The survival of this new state was guaranteed by the powers that be. This coincided with the rise of the Middle East as a rich source of fossil fuel. Partnerships were formed and the history began being re-written.

Today, Arabs don´t like Israel, they think they are some armed maniacs chasing them in the streets of their occupied land because this is more or less what happens. They also think all evil comes from Israel because it actually does come from Israel. The world leaders are beginning to realize that it is wrong to occupy other people´s territories and build what they call as "settlements" on them and they are calling for steps to normalize the lives of the people in a blockaded Ghaza. So much as it takes an Arab to get education to understand a Jew, it takes a Jew to go through the inhuman conditions that the Arabs are in, to understand them.

Thehandsom points out to the relationship between racism and antisemitism. When you read books of a certain kind up to page 14, this is the impression you will get. This is what you have when you are unable to see the larger perspective which includes the one that is visible through the eyes of a victim.

I was not thinking about you to be honest when I said ´there is a strong connection between denial of Holocaust and antisemitism and racism´.
I was more thinking like Ahmedinejad/Hamas/David Irving/KKK etc.

I dont remember calling you a racist..May be I did But I dont remember now (Because sometimes racist ideas are just flowing like a river )..

Please show me where and I will tell you why..

If I can not tell you why I will apologise publicly.

But you were not personally in my mind when I said ´there is a strong connection between denial of Holocaust and antisemitism and racism´.  Apologies if there is a misunderstanding there..

And of course ´denying the holacoust itself is not a proof for antisemitism´

I though, instead of showing an image of a racist group of sort like KKK or what ever I would show you the face of one soldier among thousand that fought the oppression of the Nazi Jackboot.

This is Lance Seargent Laurent Bertin of the Canadian North Shore Regiment.  He was part of the Canadian troups that landed on Juno beach on D-Day.  This is my grandfather, he passed away in 1989.  He was a proud, kind and gentle man and the best grandfather that ever lived.  He was but a boy when he joined because he lied about his age, he said he was older than he actually was. 

Sorry I could not ost the picture

...many people suffered during WWII....not only Jews....How about the Roma? How about the homosexuals, the disabled? We hardly ever hear about them. Then there were the soldiers and the prisoners of war who were worked to death. The Battle of Iwo Jima was a horror.

WWII was not only about Jews. It is true, they were targeted in a particularly horrific manner. However, one thing that I have noticed...and maybe I´ll be attacked for this....but the question is never asked....why? Why were these people targeted? I am not saying in any way the targeting is justified, but what is the reason? I believe understanding things helps, things do not happen for no reason, even if that reason appears unreasonable one should analyze the reasons. 

I´m afraid the current actions of the Right Wing government of Israel will give cause for more antisemitic activity. It certainly isn´t helping make friends.

It seems...the Holocaust has been played out....and yes, it has become an industry. Yes it was horrible...all wars are horrible! yes...but one can only play the same song so long before it looses it´s effectivness.  It is almost three generations now. Two of those generations have no memory of WWII, but they all have memories of hearing about home demolitions. 

The amount of people subjected to atrocities was unprecedented, but does that justify the atrocities NOW being committed by Israelis against the Palestinians? Is it reasonable for a Jew from anywhere in the world be granted citizenship in Israel, but someone who has family who has lived in the Levant for millennia does not because they are not Jewish?

What is Jewish anyway? If your mother´s mother´s mother was Jewish you are, even though you may be an athiest? What would Moses say? It reminds me of the way American "Blacks" have taken the definition of themselves by their oppressor...the one drop rule. 

The People of Palestine have been subjected to horrible conditions, their homes have been confiscated, their land confiscated, their water confiscated....and yes, I would call what has been happening to them another Holocaust.

Now we have another people who are traumatized, who have been driven to the brink of sanity......I´ve read it takes 10 generations for a people to work through cultural trauma.....so we have two people traumatized and acting crazy. I feel the Israelies have been acting like spoiled children using the Holocaust as an excuse, using antisemitism as an excuse. Nobody is allowed to criticize their actions. Enough is enough. It´s time to grow up and take responsibility for ones actions and learn to share. 

What do you expect the Palestinians to do, lay down and die? They have no place to go. Should the world just turn a blind eye because of the artocities committed during WWII?

It was not the Palestinians who perpetuated the Holocaust.....why should they give up their land for it?...and yes, I know about the Grand Mufti Of Jerusalem...who was appointed by the British Mandate authorities....and against Zionism.  He was not coming out of hate for another people because they were Jews. He was against the take over of his people´s land. People forget, the takeover of Palestine did not start after WWII. It started in the mide 19th Century. Petah Tikva was founded in 1878 with a grant from Baron Rothschild.

Good Lord, when will we stop this insanity and learn to live together! Resources HAVE to be shared. One can not, should not have it all, at the expense of another´s existance and humanity. Because one´s grandfather suffered, does not give one the right to perpetuate suffereing on others. Haven´t we learned?

I have heard Norman Finkelstein speak, his parents are Holocaust survivors, he is very well educated on the matter and not an antisemite at all.

It would be naive to say that Jews were the only group suffering during WWII. I think everybody suffered back then, even the evil Germans. However, denying Holocaust is just not fair. Jews were on top of Hitler´s propaganda to give him power. He needed people to hate someone and it was easier for him to use |Jews than, say, Russians, who were one country away. Jews had been having hard time in Europe for centuries when Hitler used them as Germany´s enemies. Of course it doesn´t mean that Jews are the most important victims of Natzists, all victims are equally important.

WWII was a tragedy to everyone, Poles who were invaded and after years of herioc struggle betrayed by their allies and handed over to the Stalin´s regime; Russians whose government never cared about the life of their soldiers (as Vineyards said, they had the highest number of fatalities) and sent them to fight hopeless battles or die in friendly fire; all non-German citizens of the countries they occupied; all sent to concentration camps; all sent to work in Germany (my family) where they suffered inhumane treatment, abuse and feared for their lives and the lives of their children all the time.

To deny Holocaust is ridiculous especially that there are still people who remember it, there are documents and places of murder. It´s not ancient history being reconstructed from bits and pieces...

However you have to understand the difference betwen Jews and Israelis. Being against horrenduous crimes Israel is guilty of in Palestine, doesn´t make anyone an antisemite, does it? The mistake people often make criticising Israel is speaking against all Jews, not just Israeli.

Okay...here goes...

First of all, to Scalpel, there is a difference between having a different opinion, and somebody denying basic FACTS. The holocaust is not my opinion, but has been proven again and again. If I say to somebody "the earth is round" and they say "the earth is flat", does it make me a horrible person for saying that they are wrong? Should I respect the "opinion" that the world is flat?

Second, to Alameda, you are right. I already mentioned that Jews weren´t the only ones being killed during these events. Even Christian Germans were killed if they didn´t fit the "perfect Arian" picture. The horrible experiments that were done on the ones that were not killed are worse than death.

And third, too Scalpel, the part about people hating Jews was aimed at the person who literally said "I hate Jews" on here. I was actually responding to what Aalaa said. If you feel like I was talking to you, than you have to question yourself about that. When the shoe fits....

People started denying the war and the holocaust straight after the WW2 in 60 and 70.

Im sorry if my posts yesterday too agressive.   Please, say anything, but dont say it didnt happen.

And Vineyards is right. Soviets were killed en masse. Holywood makes films of glorious victorious western allies, while it was soviets who contributed much in ending the war.

I don´t think your post was too aggresive. And you know what, if you and I agree on something than it MUST be true!

 - would he be likely to be?