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Lybia and the no-fly zone
(57 Messages in 6 pages - View all)
[1] 2 3 4 5 6
1.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 17 Mar 2011 Thu 12:19 pm

Am I the only one who was surprised by Turkey´s reaction to a no-fly zone over Lybia? I know that a lot of countries are against interveing in foreign affairs, but Turkey has meddled in foreign affairs before. This time a clearly dictatorial government is killing its own citizens. The question is not to send armed forces on the ground to fight this government. The only question is to enforce a safe area in the air, a no-fly zone, to keep this government from bombing citizens. Yes, intervening is a scary thing. It can lead to escalation, and does it really work to have a no-fly zone? But at one point standing on the sidelines isn´t an option anymore. How long do you stand by when people are being killed for voicing their opinion?

What are other people´s opinion about this, and Turkey´s position in this issue?

2.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 17 Mar 2011 Thu 01:02 pm

Were there a few Kurds, Turkey wouldn´t mind marching into a foreign country´s territory. Libyans (?) are not as interesting apparently...or maybe it has something to do with oil?

3.       armegon
1872 posts
 17 Mar 2011 Thu 03:04 pm

Irrelevant, unfounded pointless comment, just for provoking I guess...

Quoting Daydreamer

Were there a few Kurds, Turkey wouldn´t mind marching into a foreign country´s territory. Libyans (?) are not as interesting apparently...or maybe it has something to do with oil?

 

 

4.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 18 Mar 2011 Fri 12:58 am

Hm...you know who else brought the Turkish Kurds into this no-fly zone issue? Gaddafi himself!

"Gaddafi also brought Turkey’s fight against the outlawed Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) into the debate -- apparently as a case of what he sees as a Western double standard against Libya -- asking why the Western powers do not impose a no-fly zone in Turkish airspace to protect the Kurds.

“There are Kurds who want their rights in Turkey. They want to establish an independent state,” Gaddafi said in the interview with the state-run TRT Türk channel. “The Turkish army has been fighting the Kurds for years. Why is Turkish airspace not closed? Neither the US, nor Europe have made any decision to that effect. Why?” asked Gaddafi in the interview."

 http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetail_getNewsById.action;jsessionid=3DDCFD47E8E29EBFF7FFDBF0D38E39AD?newsId=237762

 

But it seems the news has caught up with me, and the no fly zone will be imposed.

 

 

5.       vineyards
1954 posts
 18 Mar 2011 Fri 04:27 am

Now that we are talking about Libya, it would make sense to learn how to spell its name as a first simple step Going back to the original question: 

Meddling with an uprisal in a foreign country must not be the business of any country in the world. If action needs to be taken on the humanitarian ground, an international peacekeeping organization (e.g. the UN) could undertake the responsibility. Since most such legitimate international organizations are a bit more American than being international, the possible negative domestic reaction to such an intervention must be considered thoroughly.

Declaring a no-flight zone in the air territority of a sovereign country is a direct violation of that countries independence and could be considered as a casus belli. If such a decision has become inevitable, such a sanction must also be imposed by a neutral peacekeeping organization. The big question is: Where is that neutral organization?

In the case of Libya, the West wants to push the preference of their own about the political future of Libya. They want to get rid of Qaddafi while they can. Their emphasis seems to be on capitalizin on the opportunity. Prior to the unrest in the country, they did establish economic and political relations with the Qaddafi regime. Now, there are better alternatives on the table. I don´t think anyone´s really caring about the Libyan people. In the end, we are talking about a country whose history composed merely of a string of colonization episodes.

 

slavica liked this message
6.       vineyards
1954 posts
 18 Mar 2011 Fri 02:35 pm

The message editor causes errors on my machine. Some lines are deleted, some are broken etc.

7.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 18 Mar 2011 Fri 03:56 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

Now that we are talking about Libya, it would make sense to learn how to spell its name as a first simple step Going back to the original question: 

Meddling with an uprisal in a foreign country must not be the business of any country in the world. If action needs to be taken on the humanitarian ground, an international peacekeeping organization (e.g. the UN) could undertake the responsibility. Since most such legitimate international organizations are a bit more American than being international, the possible negative domestic reaction to such an intervention must be considered thoroughly.

Declaring a no-flight zone in the air territority of a sovereign country is a direct violation of that countries independence and could be considered as a casus belli. If such a decision has become inevitable, such a sanction must also be imposed by a neutral peacekeeping organization. The big question is: Where is that neutral organization?

In the case of Libya, the West wants to push the preference of their own about the political future of Libya. They want to get rid of Qaddafi while they can. Their emphasis seems to be on capitalizin on the opportunity. Prior to the unrest in the country, they did establish economic and political relations with the Qaddafi regime. Now, there are better alternatives on the table. I don´t think anyone´s really caring about the Libyan people. In the end, we are talking about a country whose history composed merely of a string of colonization episodes.

 

 I don´t think a neutral organization exists that would speak on behalf of the Libyan people.  Impossing a no-fly zone seems like a humanitarian effort, but in the end, I think you´re right.  As long as Libya controls some of the largest oil fields in the world, they will never get any help from anyone without an alterior motive. 

 

8.       stumpy
638 posts
 19 Mar 2011 Sat 03:59 am

As I expected would happen:

Canadian fighter jets heading to Libya

 

OTTAWA - Canada will send six CF-18 fighter jets to southern Europe to help enforce a no-fly zone over Libya, defence sources told QMI Agency.

Fighter jets from CFB Bagotville in Quebec are expected to head to Europe as soon as various diplomatic clearances are obtained.

A spokesman for Defence Minister Peter MacKay, though, would not provide official confirmation of the mission.

"We do not comment on speculation and this is an unconfirmed story," said MacKay spokesman Jay Paxton.

After days of debate, the United Nations Security Council decided on Thursday to "establish a ban on all flights in the airspace" over Libya.

"Today the Security Council has responded to the Libyan people´s cry for help," said Susan Rice, U.S. ambassador the UN.

The mission for fighter jets from Canada and other countries could involve a combination of targeting infrastructure that is important to the Libyan Air Force, such as radar installations, or attempting to shoot down any Libyan Air Force jets.

That said, the mandate from the UN security council authorizes "all necessary measures" be taken short of invading Libya in order to protect Libyan citizens and rebels from attacks by forces loyal to Libyan Leader Moammar Gadhafi.

 

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2011/03/17/17662461.html

9.       amirak
56 posts
 19 Mar 2011 Sat 11:01 am

i hope if there´s any military foreign intervention, lybians will fight them back.   freedom is not "imported". it´s home made. long live libian revolution. keddafi down western intervention down

Daydreamer, scalpel and thehandsom liked this message
10.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 19 Mar 2011 Sat 01:25 pm

 

Quoting amirak

i hope if there´s any military foreign intervention, lybians will fight them back.   freedom is not "imported". it´s home made. long live libian revolution. keddafi down western intervention down

 

By saying people should fight foreign intervention, you are basically supporting Kaddafi. The whole foreign intervention thing is to support the rebels that fight Kaddafi.

 

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