Am I the only one who was surprised by Turkey´s reaction to a no-fly zone over Lybia? I know that a lot of countries are against interveing in foreign affairs, but Turkey has meddled in foreign affairs before. This time a clearly dictatorial government is killing its own citizens. The question is not to send armed forces on the ground to fight this government. The only question is to enforce a safe area in the air, a no-fly zone, to keep this government from bombing citizens. Yes, intervening is a scary thing. It can lead to escalation, and does it really work to have a no-fly zone? But at one point standing on the sidelines isn´t an option anymore. How long do you stand by when people are being killed for voicing their opinion?

What are other people´s opinion about this, and Turkey´s position in this issue?

Were there a few Kurds, Turkey wouldn´t mind marching into a foreign country´s territory. Libyans (?) are not as interesting apparently...or maybe it has something to do with oil?

Irrelevant, unfounded pointless comment, just for provoking I guess...

Hm...you know who else brought the Turkish Kurds into this no-fly zone issue? Gaddafi himself!

"Gaddafi also brought Turkey’s fight against the outlawed Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) into the debate -- apparently as a case of what he sees as a Western double standard against Libya -- asking why the Western powers do not impose a no-fly zone in Turkish airspace to protect the Kurds.

“There are Kurds who want their rights in Turkey. They want to establish an independent state,” Gaddafi said in the interview with the state-run TRT Türk channel. “The Turkish army has been fighting the Kurds for years. Why is Turkish airspace not closed? Neither the US, nor Europe have made any decision to that effect. Why?” asked Gaddafi in the interview."

 http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetail_getNewsById.action;jsessionid=3DDCFD47E8E29EBFF7FFDBF0D38E39AD?newsId=237762

But it seems the news has caught up with me, and the no fly zone will be imposed.

Now that we are talking about Libya, it would make sense to learn how to spell its name as a first simple step.  Going back to the original question: 

Meddling with an uprisal in a foreign country must not be the business of any country in the world. If action needs to be taken on the humanitarian ground, an international peacekeeping organization (e.g. the UN) could undertake the responsibility. Since most such legitimate international organizations are a bit more American than being international, the possible negative domestic reaction to such an intervention must be considered thoroughly.

Declaring a no-flight zone in the air territority of a sovereign country is a direct violation of that countries independence and could be considered as a casus belli. If such a decision has become inevitable, such a sanction must also be imposed by a neutral peacekeeping organization. The big question is: Where is that neutral organization?

In the case of Libya, the West wants to push the preference of their own about the political future of Libya. They want to get rid of Qaddafi while they can. Their emphasis seems to be on capitalizin on the opportunity. Prior to the unrest in the country, they did establish economic and political relations with the Qaddafi regime. Now, there are better alternatives on the table. I don´t think anyone´s really caring about the Libyan people. In the end, we are talking about a country whose history composed merely of a string of colonization episodes.

The message editor causes errors on my machine. Some lines are deleted, some are broken etc.

 I don´t think a neutral organization exists that would speak on behalf of the Libyan people.  Impossing a no-fly zone seems like a humanitarian effort, but in the end, I think you´re right.  As long as Libya controls some of the largest oil fields in the world, they will never get any help from anyone without an alterior motive. 

As I expected would happen:

Canadian fighter jets heading to Libya

OTTAWA - Canada will send six CF-18 fighter jets to southern Europe to help enforce a no-fly zone over Libya, defence sources told QMI Agency.

Fighter jets from CFB Bagotville in Quebec are expected to head to Europe as soon as various diplomatic clearances are obtained.

A spokesman for Defence Minister Peter MacKay, though, would not provide official confirmation of the mission.

"We do not comment on speculation and this is an unconfirmed story," said MacKay spokesman Jay Paxton.

After days of debate, the United Nations Security Council decided on Thursday to "establish a ban on all flights in the airspace" over Libya.

"Today the Security Council has responded to the Libyan people´s cry for help," said Susan Rice, U.S. ambassador the UN.

The mission for fighter jets from Canada and other countries could involve a combination of targeting infrastructure that is important to the Libyan Air Force, such as radar installations, or attempting to shoot down any Libyan Air Force jets.

That said, the mandate from the UN security council authorizes "all necessary measures" be taken short of invading Libya in order to protect Libyan citizens and rebels from attacks by forces loyal to Libyan Leader Moammar Gadhafi.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2011/03/17/17662461.html

i hope if there´s any military foreign intervention, lybians will fight them back.   freedom is not "imported". it´s home made. long live libian revolution. keddafi down western intervention down

By saying people should fight foreign intervention, you are basically supporting Kaddafi. The whole foreign intervention thing is to support the rebels that fight Kaddafi.

amirak, I pray that one day you and your people do not need the assistance of foreign military to protect and defend you.

The Canadian CF-18 are being sent to protect the Libyan people from being bombed by their own fighter pilots who still obey Kadafi orders.

Ah yes, France is known as an established exporter of freedom and peace. They have been doing their best to liberate Africa since  Napoleon. The only question that remains: Who will liberate Africa from France?

Who would believe France is bombing Libya for the benefit of Libyans when they hate the guts of any Arab in their country.

Did I say France?  Canadians were asked to assiste.  The CF-18 are to intercept Libyan fighter planes that are bombing there own people.

I was not actually replying to your post. Today, it is in the news that the French jets are on a bombing mission in Libya.

your kiding vineyard? I did not get that news, they had said they were there to intercept fighter planes not bomb Libya.  Looks like Sarcozy is doing some double talk again.

I don´t know how this is being reported in the international media but the online version of daily Hurriyet claims the French jets are sent on a mission to bomb Libyan tanks. The US, the UK will get directly involved and Italy will aid by opening its bases.

This is an act of despotism. No political or economic measures have been tried, no negotiation has been carried out.

Oh nooooooooo..........what a disaster! It seems France is leading in this, they did the first strikes.

"Gates made it clear that he thought the no-fly zone would be a mistake, warning that anyone who thought it would be a cost-free exercise was mistaken, and would require bombing Libyan air defences. "Let´s just call a spade a spade," he said. "A no-fly zone begins with an attack on Libya."

Earlier, speaking at the West Point military academy, he suggested that it would be crazy for a president to embark on another war in the Middle East or central Asia, and at a Nato summit in Brussels last week he succeeded in blocking any move towards a no-fly zone. His concern was that no-fly zones alone could not prevent the massacre of civilian populations, citing Saddam Hussein´s slaughter of Shias in southern Iraq after the first Gulf war."

I want to know what makes Libya so special that they deserve intervention and other countries don´t? Bahrain is also bloody, when will they intervene there? Isn´t that a double standard?

I don´t think the reaction of the West is about" caring for the people". It is their own "wealth interests" that drive them against the dictators. 

Now the West sees that there is no more they can do to save the dictators in power for their own benefit, they would like to get rid of them. 

Kaddafi didn´t become a dictator in one day. He has been there for over than 40 years. Our hypocritical Western Countries played three monkeys till the people of Libya raised against him. Didn´t they make business deals with him and his sons for long, didn´t they have his bank accounts without asking where the money comes from? Do you remember the Lockerbie bombing in 1988? Didn´t so-called democracy champion Western Countries tolerate him for the sake of cheap oil? 

A funny sidenote: Kaddafi´s son claims Libya sponsored Sarkozy´s 2007 electoral campaign and says, "give us back our money". 

(source)

I also want to know what makes Israel so special that they did not deserve intervention when they were bombing civilians in Palestine and Lebonan. The double standards were always there. I hope these freedom fighters from US and their companions do not support Libyans as they did support Iraqians and Afghanis...

French strikes destroy tanks near Benghazi

(source)

This is supposedly mission to " save the world " or should we say " save the oil " ? Yes, Kaddafi is a bloody dictator, but this is not the way to get rid of him.

I think Obama will be given another nobel prize for peace by intervening Libya´s own problem !!

One has to be very naive to believe that the aim of Western military intervention is to protect the Libyan people of anyone. Situation is clear: West needs Libyan oil and western military industry needs war in order to sell their product, so Libya was perfect for applying well known screenplay and tonight million of CNN spectators will enjoy performance with fireworks. They will start with tanks and air planes, continue with refineries, roads, bridges – as “military targets” – then they will destroy electricity facilities, factories, maybe water supply if Gaddafi stays too stubborn to leave - and finally West will reach oil fields and those who will mostly suffer in the whole action will be the people supposed to be protected.

Being a victim of similar action, sarcastically named “Merciful Angel”, I can only say – God save everyone of such saviours!

PS  I´ve just heard that „US and British forces have fired a barrage of at least 110 Tomahawk cruise missiles into Libya against Muammar Gaddafi´s air defences“ – so, it continues as I thought...

There are lots of dumb people around who will buy the story: "We are liberating Libya". As long as the things are the way they are, this will go on like this forever. Until one day, when they find all the suffering part of the world united against them. Maybe when that day comes, they will realize how it feels to be a victim. I don´t have any hope that I can live to see that day but it is sure to come like any other awakening.

Just out of curiousity, wasn´t there a seed of truth in the way Bosnians treated by the Serbs during the hostilities. Were the Serbs completely innocent? How did all those civilians lose their lives and how do you explain the mass burials uncovered in the aftermath of the war. 

I am not asking those to tease you or to challenge you, I understand Serbs have become a victim of the war eventually, but what about all those accusations of massacre and the stuff. Do you think they were all fabricated?

Meanwhile, that particular operation was probably the only one that did not involve an energy connection as well as being seemingly not an example of Christianity against Islam drive.

Actually, less and less are buying that story today. Quadaffi has few friends. He´s not popular in the Arab world, having had a dramatic withdrawell from the Arab League, and certainly, he has not been popular in Europe. To top things off, Libya is a major source of petrol for Europe. I think many are delighted to have an excuse to finnish him off. Now what?

I don´t really know much about Libya, in fact I don´t think I´ve ever seen a student from Libya or anyone for that matter. It must be hard to get out of that country.

My heart breaks for the poor people who will be trapped in the turmoil.

Of course we all know that it´s all about securing oil supply for Europeans.

 Poor Libyan people!

World intervenes Libya with an unusual speed!  I dont remember the same world was that quick for saving Bosnians from Serbs, Why was that ? were Bosnians missing something for not be saved that quick ? What was missing with Bosnians that they werent deserved to be saved that quick ? Yea You guessed it folks...!!

Sarkozy was enjoying his gun trade with dictator Kaddafi, and other western powers were happy earning money by selling all sorts of weapon to their dear Monster Kaddafi.. They were happy, once upon a time there was a little boy called Kaddafi, he was living happly with his big brothers (Sarkozy,...etc....) now they hate him..Yes I can understand Kaddafi should be removed from this earth to the hell but His own people should do that !! I am just against DOUBLE STANDART of leaders that is giving us the reason " Liberating Libyan people". did they liberate Iraqian people..?

Those were tragic events and Serbia has apologised for srebrenica.

Turkey of course opposes ton-fly zone.

For example Davutoglu, Turkish FM, supported change in the region but through a peaceful path

Turkey, a Muslim democracy with a secular constitution, has been cited as a model for the volatile region.

Speaking to the same international forum, Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said Ankara supported change in the region, but through a peaceful path.

"Change is necessary but peaceful change being the method is also necessary. It should not be a war among brothers that creates new tensions that evolves into a blood feud," Davutoglu said.

The most interesting comment was made by Bahçeli (MHP opposition party leader). Bahçeli pointed out that Kurds (PKK in particular) in SE Turkie are trying to stir up the matters by organising events everyday so as to clash with Turkish police and stated that Kurds will try to create the same environment in SE Turkie which may eventually lead something similar in Libya. (meaning they are probably aiming this kind of intervention as in Libya today).

It´s naive to expect that Frech and Canadian intervention is an act of good will and its main interest is getting rid of Kaddafi (what´s the proper spelling of this name?)  for the sake of the people of Libya. Of course it´s about oil. If, accidentally, getting rid of Kaddafi will improve the fate of Libyans, it´s good, but I have reasons to doubt it. It´s a tough call though: Kaddafi´s regime was not good for people, the western interventions have been known to cause lots of collateral damage and are definitely not something to wish for. The question is what is the best way to get rid of the dictator without engaging western forces. Will the folk of Libya manage on their own? Will the west risk longterm cease in oil supplies? Or even higher prices of already expensive petrol?

It´s not a simple game and it has too many players whose positions are in danger.

So if a country has oil we should all just let its inhabitants be killed by a mass murdering psychotic dictator? Because that is what Kaddafi is, no way around it. I´m sure that intervening countries have more than one reason to support a no fly zone. One of them can simply be, Libya is very very close to "the West". Fighting and revolts is something that spreads, as we have seen in the news recently in the Middle Eastern region. One of them can also be wanting to have a stable oil supply. So, you save foreign people from being killed by their dictator while also providing your own people with a steady energy supply. Although I highly doubt that a no fly zone will make any difference with oil supplies. Products are still entering Libya, and are also still getting out of Libya.

You know what I wonder, where are the "the West is against Islam" conspiracies now? Shouldn´t "the Western Christians" just let those "Islamic Middle Easterners" kill eachother? Damned if you don´t, damned if you do. Whatever the West does in this situation, there is always somebody who thinks it´s wrong.

Canada has it´s own oil, we supply oil to the USA.  Further more Canda did not have any econimic trade with Libya, we did not import from them or export to them products. 

Canada is there to inforce the no-fly zone over Libya and the reason they are involved is because of their agreement accord with the UN nad NATO and are to be in stand-by in Sicily Canada has also sent a frigate to help in the naval blockade.  In total we have 240 military personel deployed on this mission.

On top of that Canada is sending $5 million in humanitarian aid to Libya, that will go to medical supplies and emergency shelters.

Oh and Gadafie said he would protect foreign workers that are stranded in his country!  But he doesn´t bat an eye at killing his own people because they are revolting themselves against his regime!

I don´t claim Serbs are completely innocent, but I DO claim Serbs are victims too, in this war and through the history. Anyway, with no intention to turn this topic to discussion of „Serbian question“, I will gladly answer your questions, appreciating your interest to hear explanation from „the other side“ and out of wide spread stereotypes. My English is not so good to allow me to completely express my opinion, so I will ask you, and everyone else interested and patient enough to read this article – its parts about Kosovo and Bosnia. There are facts that explain all your questions. But in short: Serbia was not bombed because of Bosnia, but because of Kosovo, and conflict between Serbs and Albanians about Kosovo reaches deep in history and no one is able to say „who started first“. Anyway, in newer history, Kosovo became officially attached to Serbia, where Albanian minority became mayority in the province, struggling to achieve independence. Similar things happen in Basque Spain, Catholic Northern Ireland, Kurdish Turkey, where rebellious forces, similar to the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA),  engage governments and provoke retaliation. Of course, Serbia, as any sovereign country, fought against such kind of separatism. But, independent Kosovo conformed to the West – this time it was not oil in question, but military presence at Balkans  - Serbia denied the stationing of NATO troops in sovereign Serbian territory. So, international forces supported rebellions and attacked Yugoslavia citing „atrocities against Albanians“ as the reason. The result was:  physical and economic destruction of Yugoslavia; the Serbs lost authority in Kosovo; ethnic cleansing of a Serb population, going to even trafficking in organs taken from murdered Serbs! – and brand new US military camp Bondsteel, described by human rights envoy of the Council of Europe as a "smaller version of Guantanamo"!

Now let alone everything that happened to „bad Serbian people, who got what deserved“. Let´s see what have got Albanian people who was supposed to be „protected“: they were directly exposed to the terror of Serbian forces, since the mass exodus  of Albanians from Kosovo did not start until the NATO bombings of Kosovo, in which many Kosovars were killed; their infrastructure was destructed, their territory bombed with missiles filled with depleted uranium, with all its consequences to human health for (hundreds of) years. Is it what had to happen, in situation when negotiations were still possible?

One thing that I want to highlight – and this is similar with what Vineyards said in his post - besides of punishing Serbs, there are more results of the Yugoslavia war that should be considered: „testing of weapons in all types of conditions that caused death and destruction, an acceptance that strong nations may attack weaker nations with the pretext of unfair treatment of their minorities, revival of war as a solution to problems, renewal of an arms race, the loss of sovereignty, and the uncomfortable feeling that no matter where you are in the world, if you don´t agree with a specified policy you can become the target of a guided missile.“

What most on here have conveniently omited (except Alameda) is that The Arab League were calling on the UN  to take action over what was happening in Libya so to say it was a totally western intervention is clearly wrong.

Bydand, the newspapers ring today with the news that The Arab League has denounced the intervention on account that they are calling for the enforcement of a no-flight zone only; not a full scale bombing operation.

For your information, I am not a fanatic supporter of Qaddafi, I don´t like him even a bit. Nevertheless, I wouldn´t bomb his country without negotiating with him first. He is still the recognized leader of his country. Should he be subjected to sanctions, there are natural steps to follow. These might be economic and military sanctions. When these fail harsher measures could be considered and each one of these steps must be in accordance with the established international laws.

Of course, if you are content with a Wild West type general outlook in international relations, there is not much to be said. It is a bit good luck to be on the winning side. 

We humans have a high IQ but our animal instincts still linger on. Sometimes, we just can´t see the whole picture. We must have fair laws and practices in international politics; we must make sure that justice is served. War must be the last step not the first.

As for Canada sympathizing with the Libyan sufferings; well that sounds like one heck of a tall story. I would more readily believe Canada is siding with their natural allies in the hope of increasing its non-existing international influence.

You are welcome to living in any country Stumpy. The poorer half of the world opens up its visa free borders to you. You can be anywhere, any time with all your complaints and disdain of local culture. You consider yourself as the norm. All the rest is wrong, there is no such thing like natural evolution, let´s wipe them out off the face of the Earth. The bombardment will tame the savages in Libya and convert them into a more civilized people. Don´t get surprized with this, if you compress the timeline a bit, this is more or less how the West has regarded Africa for centuries. This did not stop until after 50´s. Just listen to the memories of the Jazz singers. Even multitudes of Western red necks consider the catostrophy in Japan as yet another revenge of the attack on Pearl Harbour. What would you expect when their government has not officially apoligized to date.

When you take a look at how things are organized in today´s world, you´ll see wealth is controlled by the powers that be with the poverty becoming the fate for billions of people. Any attempt that might jeopardize the situation is punished with bombardments. 

When these poor and hopeless people show up at your gates, you point your fingers at them saying, "These people choose to live in our country because it is good." Yeah, it is good, about 32 million people living in a continent size territory with riches of all sorts captured from the natives. If I were you I would shut up and pray God for being so generous to me. These people are not coming to you because they are crazy for your culture, all that there is, is the usual thing between the haves and have nots.

OK. If we go on here with this we will become off topic. We could move this to another thread and I will gladly discuss with you...

Your words not mine, I have never said I was the norm and the rest were wrong.  Oh yeah it´s true, I forgot, I am better than everyone here! NOT!

Yes land taken away from my native ancestors by the white settlers who killed and placed my people in indian reserves.  I am VERY GREATFULL for that, I kiss their feet every day I breath, I also kiss the feet of the Brittish who slaughtered my French ancestors also!

If I had such disdain for other cultures as you put it I would not be busting my ass trying to learn Turkish and the customs just for a 3 week visit.

Why should I shut up?  I am intitle to voice my opinions just like you.  I am my own person, with my own ideas and opinions and I can make my own decisions.  And why pray?   Pray to a god that does not seem to care about what is happening!  Pray for salvation and guidance?  Pray for mercy and clemency?  Pray to save my soul?  If there was a god he would not be permitting this insanety that is happening right now around the world.

When nothing was being done for Libya peopel were outraged, now that something is being done we are considered the monsters who want to grab the oil of the country.  Like barba-mama said: Damned if you don´t, damned if you do. Whatever the West does in this situation, there is always somebody who thinks it´s wrong.  

Maybe our leaders should have left well enough alone and let Gaddafi kill his own people.  If this would have been done instead then we would have been considered monsters anyways because our leaders allowed it to happen.

Anyways, whatever I say you will find something negative about me, so go right ahead, take your best shot, contrary to what you think I am not a hatefull person and I do listen to the opinions of others.  And I do try to learn from these discution contrary to popular belief.

Well, this is perfectly normal, there can always be multiple reactions, this is quite understandable. After all, what we have here are pretty much like Western and Eastern fan clubs. Both are very predictable. I would be surprized if  either group could ever show some sort of empathy. This is almost in their making, with all those stereotypes injected into their brains, all that they can do is producing these uniform sentences. Anyway, as we are talking Libya´s coffin is getting ready, another zombie republic will take its place. Its wealth will be distributed among Western investors and this way Sarko will not need to ask for money from Qaddafi for his next election campaign, nor will Britain have to look for Arab owners for their football clubs. The money is there to be taken.

I will not find anything wrong about you unless you sing the praises of these savage invasions. Stop intimidating the world with weapons and fire power. In the past, we lost almost half of our population to the vicious desires of the Western forces. We fought a war of independence to clear our country from those well-meant French, British and Greek invaders. We know how it feels that´s all. You should understand, the threat is always coming from the West who doesn´t want to let anyone hold on to the wealth of their own nations. 

So the question here is not you. It is just a general reaction. Enough is enough.

Yes vineyard, enough is enough, there are people here that think that way also.  I agree with you on that point.

Well, we are getting quite a bit cryptic but anyway. I must set the record straight, I don´t want global cops or a new world order, all I am asking for is letting all nations determine their own fates and staying away from their borders unless there is an anonymously determined humanitarian ground.

Big brothers get out of our gardens and give peace a chance...

Anyone not getting this message, don´t worry, the world has always been the other way around and it seems it will remain that way.

We will sadly, remain as a few objectors whose voice is not heard.

I´m sorry but I can´t believe that some of you actually think that western intervention has anything to do with humanitarian aid, helping common folk or peacekeeping. Why hasn´t the west sent their troops to other countries with dictators? How about wars in Africa? In 1981 we had a marshal law in Poland that lasted for 2 years. How many friendly interventions from our western neighbours? Ahm...let me see...none! And yet Libya gets on the mouth of everybody bot because of oil or because of the international businesses but because of injustice..yeah right

When he rose to power they said he would be the next deccal but it seems he is proving how wrong that assumption was. Putin made a statement saying the UN´s call for attacking Libya is  no different from the crusade calls of the medieval times. He said Qaddafi´s regime does not live up to the democratic norms but that doesn´t justify an armed intervention.

In the aftermath of the 1980 coup millions of people in Turkey were jailed, subjected to tortures, and some were evaporated, no one ever threatened Turkey. Thank God we don´t have oil. Because I would prefer to be tortured by my own people rather than having to fight yet another war of independence.  

Stumpy, if some maniac takes the reins of your own country, will you go and ask for help from Turkey?

Every country must determine their own fate and must pay what is necessary.

I usually admire your contributions DD but I must argue some of the points you raise here. You speak of the crisis in Poland in 1981. Any interference from the west would have resulted in Russian intervention from the east. Is that what you would have prefered? Also I was only two years old at the time so don´t recall much about it but on the 3rd September 1939 Britain declared war on Germany because she would not withdraw her forces from Poland. Selective memory on your part maybe? Now the present crisis in Libya. The Arab League were one of the original mooters of the no fly zone and today their leader Amr Moussa reaffirmed their support of the UN no fly resolution in order to protect those opposed to Gaddafi. So not an entirely western action.

You´re absolutely right about it not being an entirely western action this time, but I´ll stick to my point which was that west (or any country for that matter) doesn´t intervene unless its business is at peril. UK joined the WWII as they considered III Reich a global threat, not because it attacked Poland. For the same reason the US didn´t join in till 1941 and Pearl Harbour.

Another thing to consider is whether the intervention, whatever the reasons behind it, will bring more good than evil and to whom...

As for Vineyard´s point regarding whether or not foreign countries should interfere with domestic issues, it´s a hard question. On the one hand it might be considered war to interfere with one country´s internal problems, on the other, sometimes the common people might not be strong enough to oppose the regime. If your neighbour´s wife is being battered, would you not intervene? Especially if she´s the one that cooks your dinners?

It´s not a simple matter and no choice of action is flawless. I can just naively hope for a good change to happen to the people of Libya

French Minister of Domestic Affairs appeared on TV yesterday and openly named the attack on Libya as a "crusade" directed by Sarkozy. 

Source: www.hurriyet.com.tr

cru·sade  (kr-sd)

 3. A vigorous concerted movement for a cause or against an abuse. See Synonyms at campaign.

Well, it is of course worth checking the tertiary meanings of words used in public speeches. If you are not careful with your vocabulary you are prone to misunderstanding. A murder can be a glorious feat when done in the name of God. You can derive meanings from any word. Isn´t Sarkozy opposing Turkey´s membership on account that Turkey is not European (to most people that also means: since Turkey is not Christian). On a short visit, he made this point clear showing the Midlle East as where Turkey must exist. Don´t tell me Sarkozy´s mind is clear of stereotypes. He is indeed a crusader, he just doesn´t wear an armour.

Quoting Daydreamer

 

cru·sade  (kr-sd)

 

1. often Crusade Any of the military expeditions undertaken by European Christians in the 11th, 12th, and 13th centuries to recover the Holy Land from the Muslims.

2. A holy war undertaken with papal sanction.

 3. A vigorous concerted movement for a cause or against an abuse. See Synonyms at campaign.

Excerpts from an article:

Now, allow me to put all that in perspective. Like everybody else, I have been following the events in Libya with concern. I was hoping that the rebels would be able to take Gadhafi down, and establish at least a proto-democracy, but that did not turn out to be the case. The mad colonel proved to be resilient – and merciless – enough to wage war against his own people.

So, I was happy to see the United Nations Security Council take the decision for a no-fly zone in Libya. I knew there were serious risks, and the civilian casualties of the very first days made me cautious as well, not to mention my distaste for Mr. Sarkozy’s arrogant enthusiasm. But I know that Gadhafi would probably have destroyed thousands of innocent lives in eastern Libya had the NATO allies not acted. I also know that the West was working quite happily with Gadhafi since the early 2000s, so I can’t convince myself that the whole affair is a pre-planned “Western plot” to occupy Libya and exploit its sources.

Yet such arguments do not sell well in Turkey. Most people here rather want to see something evil in whatever the West does. And they find that evil no matter what happens. When NATO allies stand aside while Gadhafi kills his own people, this shows that the West is hypocritical about human rights and does not give a damn about Muslim lives. If the same allies act against Gadhafi, then they become “crusaders” and “oil-sucking imperialists.” As Karl Popper rightly pointed out, there is simply no way to beat such an “unfalsifiable” scheme.

Source: here

If they don´t poke their nose into everyone´s business and aspire the role of global police no one will criticize them. These are just empty words.

Whicg part of the first two definitions don´t you understand? You´re missing out the "papal" issue here. The last time I checked, Vatican did not approve of French intervention Are French burning Libyan mosques and forcing people to either convert or die? Nope. So how is it holy crusading? Especially from a country that is secular? And where Islam is second biggest religion? Your reasoning is somewhat illogical...

I find it ridiculous how people still consider religion being the force behind wars in 21st century. Face it: European policy is no longer dictated by the Vatican, countries are secular and all of them make their own decisions. Why didn´t NATO support Serbs/ They are Christian. Why did they support Muslims? Maybe because they don´t give a rat´s tutu about your religion. It´s all about money and resources

OK. Keep on finding this ridiculous but religion is indeed a factor for conflicts and wars. There is enough evidence it will remain that way for a good while more. Remember, we atheists are still marginals in the eyes of society.

As for France doing this for the sake of religion or not; it doesn´t matter actually; they are doing this in a part of the world where they have no business. 

I think there are too many blind people around...

The one in the middle beaten by Kaddafi, Obama and Sarkozy is a poor Libyan, who says "we were much better when there was one psycho around only ".

Source: Leman weekly comic book