Hi Guys...

I hope you all doing good. I have problem understanding ´Object Particle´ i.e dik,dık,duk,dük etc. I got the basic idea about it as I read it on Manisa Turkish website but i am still struggling when it comes with multiple verbs in a single sentence.

I would also appreciate if someone elaborates how to translate or maintain the proper word order of the verbs in a sentence where there are multiple verbs, say, more than 3 verbs in a sentence.

Thank you...

You mean somethng like this?

Köyden getirip yediklerimizin bittiğini bilmediğinden dolayı bu soruyu sorduğu anlaşılan kişiye verdiğim yanıtın anlaşılmadığı belli oluyor.

 Yes, you are right...could you explain it? with english examples....it would be very helpful..

Thank you

Take a sentence with an obect:

Topla oynuyorum = I am playing with the ball

Object is top=ball

Now let´s have another sentence with the ball in it:

Top kırmızı = The ball is red

-dik comes handy when we combine two sentence:

Oynadığım top kırmızı = The ball with which I am playing is red

Or you can put -dik in a compound name:

kırmızı top = red ball

oynadığım kırmızı top = the red ball with which I am playing

Now let´s have another sentence with the ball in it:

Top camı kırdı = The ball has broken the window glass

Now we can combine them again

Oynadığım kırmızı topun kırdığı cam = The window glass which the red ball with which I am playing has broken

So on.

See also: this thread for further info on -dik

Some more:

-dik suffix usually is used with personal possessive suffixes. You should know them but they are
-(i)m = my
-(i)n = your
-(s)i = his/her/its
-(i)miz = our
-(i)niz = your
-leri = their

So -dik+POSS
-diğ-im
-diğ-in
-diğ-i
-diğ-imiz
-diğ-iniz
-dik-leri

So far so good. I don´t want to use grammatical terms here. Usually it is used to turn the object of a simple sentence into another noun in a complex sentence.

Some examples:
Bir kitap okudum. = I read a book.
V=oku-mak
Object=Bir kitap
Here the verb is oku-mak (to read). Now add -dik+POSS to the verb
oku-duğum (not -diğim but -duğum, vocal harmony you know)

Now the object (a book) should be modified by "okuduğum" and since in Turkish modifier always comes before the modified we have this

okuduğum bir kitap = A book which I read

So here "okuduğum" modifes "bir kitap" just like in
kalın bir kitap = a THICK book
kırmızı bir kitap = a RED book
okuduğum bir kitap = a book which I read

Notice the difference, in English the order is different for the 3rd one. In the first 2 examples the order is similar to Turkish, but for the 3rd one the modifier comes after the modified in English.

Well as I said in Turkish the modifier always comes before the modified. This is a golden rule you should keep in mind.

Now let´s make it more complicated.

Dün bir kitap okudum. = Yesterday, I read a book.
Dün eve dönerken otobüste bir kitap okudum. -- Yesterday, on the way back home, I read a book.

Now let´s modifiy the object "bir kitap"
Dün okuduğum bir kitap = a book which I read yesterday
Dün eve dönerken otobüste okuduğum bir kitap = a book which I read yesterday, on the bus, on the way back home

Also pay attention to the article. In above examples I used "bir kitap" (a book). If you want to say THE book, you should drop "bir" (a) and say "kitap" (the book). There is no definite article in Turkish. That´s why
Bir kitap = a book
Kitap -- the book

So
Kitab-ı okudum. = I read the book.
okuduğum kitap = The book (which) I read.

Notice that in Turkish sentence "kitap" is a definite object so it becomes "kitab-ı" by adding (-ı suffix. But in the second example (-ı is not used. Why is that? Because (-ı is only used with nouns in the object position.

More ex:
Okuduğum kitap masanın üstünde. = The book which I read is on the table.
Okuduğum kitabı masanın üstüne bıraktım. = I put on the table the book which I read.

Notice in the first sentence "okuduğum kitap" is the subject of the sentence and the object in the second that is why it becomes "okuduğum kitabı".

Another point is that -dik+POSS can be used alone. It that case it can be thought as of modifiying the thing or what.
okuduğum = the thing that I read or what I read
okuduğumu anladım = I understood what I read.

OK we said dik+POSS is used for the things in object position in a sentence. And -an is used for the things in subject position. And it is used alone not by adding possessive suffixes.

Now let´s take our simple sentence again.
Bir kitap okudum. = I read a book.
If we make this a passive sentence "Bir kitap" becomes the object of the sentence.
Bir kitap okundu. = A book was read.
Here we turn oku-mak (to read) verb into a passive verb oku-n-mak (to be read) by adding a suffix.

In this case we add an "-an" suffix to the verb.
Okun-an bir kitap = A book which was read

You can come back with your questions where it is not clear for you.

Thanks for your insight on the topic, its really very useful...but some how I am not able to comprehend long sentences with -dik, if possible could you explain how to break the long sentences in order to get the meaning out of the it, as in...

Oynadığım kırmızı topun kırdığı cam = The window glass which the red ball with which I am playing has broken

Köyden getirip yediklerimizin bittiğini bilmediğinden dolayı bu soruyu sorduğu anlaşılan kişiye verdiğim yanıtın anlaşılmadığı belli oluyor.

for small sentences I am comfortable with them....

Thank you for giving your valuable time....thank you..

Let´s work on the it as an example:

Köyden getirip yediklerimizin bittiğini bilmediğinden dolayı bu soruyu sorduğu anlaşılan kişiye verdiğim yanıtın anlaşılmadığı belli oluyor.

Say the underlined part is a:

a belli oluyor = it appears that a

Köyden getirip yediklerimizin bittiğini bilmediğinden dolayı bu soruyu sorduğu anlaşılan kişiye verdiğim yanıtın anlaşılmadığı

Now say the underlined part is b:

a = b-nin anlaşılmadığı ... = ... that b was not understood

Köyden getirip yediklerimizin bittiğini bilmediğinden dolayı bu soruyu sorduğu anlaşılan kişiye verdiğim yanıt

Now say the underlined part is c:

b = c yanıt = c answer (c is a modifier=adjective)

Köyden getirip yediklerimizin bittiğini bilmediğinden dolayı bu soruyu sorduğu anlaşılan kişiye verdiğim

Now say the underlined part is d:

c = d anlaşılan kişiye verdiğim = which I gave to the person who appears to be d

Köyden getirip yediklerimizin bittiğini bilmediğinden dolayı bu soruyu sorduğu

Now say the underlined is e:

d= e´den dolayı bu soruyu sorduğu = that he asked the question because of e

Köyden getirip yediklerimizin bittiğini bilmediği

Now say the underlined is f:

e= f-ni bilmediği = that he doesn´t know f

Köyden getirip yediklerimizin bittiği

Now say the underlined is g:

f = g-nin bittiği = that g has been used up

and g=Köyden getirip yediklerimiz=The food that we brought from our village and ate

Now put all of them:

g&f: The food that we brought from our village and ate has been used up,

e: he doesn´t now that,

d: he asked a question (but he woudn´t if he knew)

c: I answered that question

b: but the answer was not understood

a: because it look like it (it appears to be not understood by him)

Now it´s your turn:

Can you analyze this similarly?

Ali´yi tanıdığımı anladığında söylediklerinin duyulmadığını sandığı belliydi.

 I tried to do it the way you suggeted but I am not confident about it...but gave it a shot...It took me more than 30 minutes to comprehend it...plz let me know how is it? Thank you...

"I knew Ali understood what they said was not heard which he thought was obvious."

Not exactly!

First of all you need to work backward, so:

Ali´yi tanıdığımı anladığında söylediklerinin duyulmadığını sandığı belliydi.

Call the underlined a

a belliydi = it was obvious that a

That is the main clause.

Another hint:

subj obj verb -> obj which subj verb (in English)

subj obj verb -> subj + -(n)in verb + -dik+ POSS obj

when you work reversely, you need to restore:

subj + -(n)in verb + -dik+ POSS obj -> subj obj verb

a may be difficult for you to decode because:

subj obj verb -> subj + -(n)in verb + -dik+ POSS obj

work the following way sometimes:

gitti = he has gone (no object here and subject is not given explicitly but we know that it´s 3rd grammatical person he/she/it)

gittiği = (the fact) that s/he has gone

gittiği belliydi= (the fact) that s/he had gone was obvious

or

gittiği belliydi= it was obvious that s/he had gone

the a is a similar form above

Ali´yi tanıdığımı anladığında söylediklerinin duyulmadığını sandığı belliydi.

Now say the underlined is b

b sandığı belliydi. = it was obvious that s/he thought that b

Can you proceed from there?

 That I knew Ali

OK... si++ and I were writing at the same time. Si started from the end, I started from the beginning. You just have to do the middle!

I know it´s not correct and it doesn´t make sense, but I worked hard for it and I think I understood the method. What I can´t understand is söylediklerinin (what is the plural suffix doing here?) and the noun states in söylediklerinin and anladığında.

I think you´re doing good but need to work out a bit more.

Here´s some explaination for the bits which are confusing for you:

Verb + -diğinde = when V+ing or upon V+ing or at the time of V+ing

anla-dığında = at the time of realising that ... or

anla-dığında = when s/he realised that ...

V+-dik+POSS = what ( or things that) (the person of POSS) V where POSS=possessive suffix

söyle-dikler-i = what s/he said or the things that s/he said (notice -i possessive suffix is used for 3rd person he/she/it)

First of all Thank you so much to Si and Marionin for your great support and willngness to help people like me who are putting some effort to learn Turkish....Thanks a lot and Keep it up... Finally I was able to put it together again which took me decades because when I was doing it I studied, what you had explained and what I had with me from other sources, again and again. At times it was frustrating, I thought Oh! Leave it man...but I thought again and took a resolution that untill and unless I get it right I won´t leave it because I knew that if you want to overcome your fear face it as if its your eternal enemy 

 so here I go again with my version of it...

Ali´yi tanıdığımı anladığında söylediklerinin duyulmadığını sandığı belliydi.

It was clear that he thought what(ever) they said was unheard (not heard) when he figured out that I knew Ali.

How is it? Please give me your feedback. Waiting. Thanks

Almost!

I will fix it with just a small touch!

It was clear that he thought what(ever) they he said was unheard (not heard) when he figured out that I knew Ali.

It should still be "s/he" not "they" and you need move the underlined part like this:

It was clear that he thought what(ever) they he said when he figured out that I knew Ali was unheard (not heard)  .

Hi Si

Is there any problem TC today as m neither able to see my post which I posted around 12:15 today nor yours which you posted few minutes back ....but its showing below mini chat( always shows here only) on the exteme right of the homepage of TC. What should I do to see it?

If possible could you copy paste it as a new post that I can see it.

Thank you.

 I saw it now...

Why I can´t see my posts????????this is a pain? Is anyone around here who can solve this?

It´s fine on my pc. So I will leave it as it is. I PM´d my post to you without any text formatting!

Cheers!