Zaten kendisi borç içinde yüzüyor. 

In fact he is deep in debts.

Turks always are....he will probably need a loan soon

If you think its funny, it is not ..Stop running Turks down. As if you brits are white spoon that came out of milk.

Would you be happy if I had said " Brits always are lazy spongers ? "

what is that you are sounding like " Anti-Turk " ?

Some of my best friends are Turks - I just don´t like these waiters/internet spongers who play this same game over and over...

 Then dont generalize by saying "Turks". If your problem is with "waiters" then solve your problem with them. I will start thinking that you had a summer romance with a waiter that ended up with disappointments .

Hahahaha!  I am not so naive that I would have a "summer romance" thank you   They are Turks, are they not?  And this is Turkish Class, is it not?  What´s your problem?  You have a whole site dedicated to your country...enjoy

 There are conmen in every country..There are internet spongers in every country..I dont know if you are naive or not..but I dont like when people generalising things, And Yes,this is supposed to be a learning site. Lets stop this silly talking...

Ok darling...

you are making it out that its ALL waiters when there are good and bad everywhere. You´ll find as you put it ´internet spongers´ in any country. 

Hahahaha sorry to disappoint you but only Turks and Morocco tourist workers share this syndrome   ...of course....not including YOUR boyfriend....

No it REALLY doesn´t happen in resorts all over the world - sorry but it´s true  

 How many countries have you been in the world ? Why do you insist on judging people by putting them in the same basket ? Get some rest, or go out in the country somewhere in Scotland and get some fresh air..Or you can go to Spain, who knows it might be great chance for you to observe spanish waiters...they might be the same ...

stumpy, I think you yourself stated that you where the victim of unwanted advances at a Turkish resort recently?  Am I mistaken?

I can´t say I completely agree that all Turkish men that work at resorts behave one way, but there does seem to be a pattern in the forums that suggest that it is very common.  I would feel bad for these poor, defenseless studs, if they didn´t seem to enjoy it so much.  Maybe some of these ladies are looking for sex.  So what?  Does that give these guys the right to convince these women that they are in love and promise marriage...blah, blah, blah...and then sooner or later start asking for money when they know damn good and well that their families are arranging a marriage for them? And although this may not be the common occurance on every Turkish resort or with every Turkish waiter, it sure does seem to be prevailent on this website.  So while I don´t agree that it is the case everytime, I would have to agree that it happens a good deal of the time.    

yes and fortunatly I was able to defend myself, the same way I am able to push away unwanted male advances at the bar and clubs where I live.  What happened to me in Marmaris could have happened here in Canada or anywhere else.  And like I said also what happened is in the past and I will not let that one incident taint a whole month of good memories I have about Turkey and the people I met and became friends with.  What is it with always bringing up the negative things, do peopel relish in misery?  This is the last time I will rehash that 15 minutes of what was a wonderful month of vacation.

Since this is Turkish Language site it seems like it is ok to bash every Turkish waiter and deny that it happens at other tourist resorts elsewhere in the world.  That is being rather hypocritacle to say that only happens in Turkey.  Yes there are some waiters that takes advantage of "naive" tourist girls who think that they have met their soulmates.  What I am trying to get across is that it is easy to generalise and say "oh yeah all Turkish waitiers are like this or like that" by doing so, the reputation of hard working waiters and bartenders is tarnished because they get lumped in with the rif raf.

Yes some of those workers are looking for the gravy train to leave Turkey and have an easy life paid for by their "sugar mamas" but you also have some tourist girls who think like I said before that those men are just there for a good screw.  I have seen some girls act like they were cats in heat and basicly a hooker on the corner street would have more decorum and selfrespect then some of those tourist girls had.

 Since this is a turkish language learning site used by people visiting Turkey it stands to reason that most of the stories you read on here are about Turkey. Far worse has been happening over the years in other fleshpots in the Mediterranean visited by the lager louts. Up here in Scotland we have an unemployed gentleman walking the streets who is the father of 15 children to 13 different women so dudus are not confined to Turkey. If all these stories are true why is it that tourists are flocking to Turkey in greater numbers every year? 

I wanted to add excatly the same, why the tourits come back and even in larger number?

And to be honnest there must be always two persons in such relations and if the turists woud not like it, the Turkish waiters will not rape them.

I saw it many thime that the youtr girls provoke and seduce them, that they would have been gays, not to react.

And of course, you can seen it in Greece, Italy, Spain, Egypt, Tunisia......

It really doesn´t matter to me that people go on vacation and have a alcohol fueled, steamy affair with a good looking guy (anywhere in the world...and not just Turkey).  What bothers me is what happens after.  For some reason, men that work at Turkish resorts seem to go the extra mile in convincing ladies that they are in love and seem particularly talented at being able to manipulate women from thousands of miles away.  To me, if two adult people want to have a roll in the hay, fine.  It just makes me a little sad when I see these women come back and get taken advantage of. 

come on, those very women will attack you for writing this. hahaha

one stupid finds another stupid. so what? dont you see people are saying thats pretty fine?

Well said, oh evil one

i dont think so. it is like getting between spouses. wronf anyway.

 I don´t know why you single out the Turkish resort workers for special treatment by implying that it is only happening in Turkey. The same thing is going on across North Africa. Try googling Tunisian Love Rats and see what you come up with for instance.

Shame on you stumpy! 

Being the victim of an assault or the victim of a schemer who is trying to get money from you....a victim is a victim!  

I wonder how could lay the blame on the women in these situations when you say you were the victim of an attack yourself? 

Did you bring on your own attack because you were throwing yourself at local men and they were just reacting like hungry lions? 

I want to be a waiter in Marmaris    

GG, you are wasting your time with stumpy. she doesnt know she produces oxymoron.

for the sake of humanity and safety of girls you better stay here.

 When it comes to the blame on the women issue, Quite few western women [single,widower,looking for love and doesnt matter american,english or german etc..] comes to Turkey by an idea of  having good time with waiters, toyboys, handsome young men idea in their mind. This is undeniable Truth. And after a holiday romance many of them fall in love with them. The initial goal of those women who was looking for love for fun turns into a love  issue. And some end up with disappointments [naturally, as those young men just want good time or money issue , no more ] If those so called mature women wasnt that silly they would have known the young men wouldnt fall in love with them. Simple is that .So to who to blame should go ?   

Every one is looking for happiness. Every one is dreaming of it. And when we feel there is the slightest chance for it we are very talented to fool ourselves.

 Evet , you are right. As human beings we all after happiness, whether bitter one or sweet one. And when a person in love,that means that person gets blind and can not distinguish things  between the foolishness and wisdom.

shame on me? I have nothing to be ashamed of.

I am not a victim, I do not consider myself a victime because the only thing I got were bruises, the guy on the other hand was in a little bit more pain than I. 

I am not blaming all women but I am stating what I saw, the actions of SOME women were rather shamefull and lacked selfrespect.

I did not bring up my attack but Elisabeth so kindly mentionned it.  For your information the man in question tried to have his way with me while I was going to the wc and I was not in Turkey to screw my way through the tourist attractions but if that is what you want to think of mine that is fine. 

When you go to a bar or club and a man makes unwanted advances to you what do you do?  Smile?  When a man grabs my ass without my permission he gets the point very fast that his gesture is not wanted.

So think what you want but in every situation there are 2 sides to every situation and right now it is the waiters that are getting buried with the blame.  Yes some of them are looking for a free like like I mentionned multiple times and yes some of those women get taken for all they are worth but you have the flip side where you have "girls" that think it is ok to act like a common street walker and be crude and crass towards those men, which I have seen with my own eyes, my point was not to generalise everything but it seems that it is useless talk because since this is a site pertaining to Turkey then it is open season on them.

The problem with your argument "Stumpy" is that you have said previously that I should not generalise about Turkish resort staff, but you happily tar your own sex with the same brush. You now admit that your comments are based on "some women".

There ARE women who go to Turkey to meet men, yes!  Older women looking for fun are well aware that Turks will "sleep with anything" for a promise of a visa or money. But..there are also a lot of very young girls who are taken in by the declarations of love that these men freely give out to them.  You only have to read some of the messages on the translation forum to know yourself what goes on.  You can go on and on about how this is not unique to Turkey - and yes, you are right there are many third world countries where this goes on but they are usually countries that are expensive to get to and do not attract such large numbers of "package holiday" young girls who are so easily taken in.  I have yet to hear of any other similar practice going on in European resorts. 

Oh please don´t feel sorry for the poor Turks who you feel are so victimised by the slightest negative comment that goes on this site.  For every negative comment, there are many women like you who are happy to flatter them on every occasion and stroke their egos

read what you want into my posts seems it will only be more fuel for you, from the beginning of my posts I said there were some women and some men, I made a clear distinction and I did not say all women and all men so I did not generalise but hey looks like by what others post that all waiters in Turkey are "love rats"

Rather defensive aren´t you?  Would Elisabeth been able to "kindly" comment on your attack had you not previously discussed in this public forum?  No.

In this thread you stated, not once...but twice...that the women are to blame because they flaunt themselves at men.  Whether you painted a broad stroke or not does not matter...if you blame one woman for being a victim then I repeat...shame on you!

It does not matter what a woman does...if she stands naked on a corner it doesn´t give a man a right to touch her. 

If she sleeps with 30 waiters, it doesn´t give a single on of them the right to try to take advantage of her and take money from her.

Period.

 The blame goes to those who think they can do what they want or take what they want when it is not their place to do or to take.

you dont understand. in the eastern culture a woman will always be the one to blame.

And you are trying to judge through your own mentality.

In here if you say that this girl was raped, the whole shame will go to her and her family.

i never could understand why.

I disagree. This is some kind of a game that you are talking about. Who will protect you if you refuse?

Ask tunci, he´ll explain.. 

Well, I dont think he wants to talk to me. He considers my posts childish. So I am not worthy his precious time to waste on me. He is too clever to me.

you haven´t seen defensive yet.  Yes Elisabeth said I was a victim, I was not a victim because I knew what to do to put a stop to what was happening.  You are a victim if you act like a victim and say you are a victim.  What happened was no diffrent then when drunk customers used to grab my butt and my breasts when I used to work in bars.  So I think I have an idea what those waiters go through when they work.

If a woman does not want to have unwanted advances from men she shouldn´t put herself in those types of situations.

What is the first thing they tell you in self defense classes when you go out?  Be aware of your surroundings, do not walk like you are affraid but with a determined confident walk, do not walk alone at night.

When you are a child what do you parents repeat to you?  Do not talk to strangers, do not accept candy from strangers.

Then why is it when they become consenting adults and go on vacation do they get liquored up and then hang off of those men and flirt madly?  What makes that ok?  Do their moralety and judgment go out the window because they are on vacation?  It is the easy way out to always blame the men?  Come on, give me a break.  The way a woman dresses is not an excuse for rape but why take the chance and taunt the devil?

In the USA if a man so much as looks at a woman in a manner she deams inapropriate she screams sexual harassement, well she should boutton her blouse because not everyone want to see her clevage and wear a longer skirt because some do not want to know if she has pubic hair or has a brasilian cut.  I should know because I took the friggin Sensativety Trainning class that was ordered by the head office wich was US based.  It is not only the man´s responsibilety not to look at the woman but with all the laws to try and protect women against rape, women should have at least 1 ounce of common sense.  If you dress provocatively a man will look but don´t go screaming sexual harassement.  It´s like throwing chum in the ocean to round up sharks.

So say what you want but if women think that a "summer fling" at a vacation resort where the waiters makes a quarter of her salary will be true endless love then the pour woman is diluded, yes it make work out for some but fairytales are only in books.

To say shame on me, I don´t think so, it is more like shame on them for being naive and shame on them to think that those men are made of wood. You play with fire you will get burned.  They should have more selfrespect for themselves and remember what they were taught as young girls, don´t talk to strangers and don´t take candy from strangers.

 Don´t be to offended lemon. Nobody considers your posts childish. He is probably to busy helping people with their Turkish. There is a learning side to this site as well.

I will pretend you didnt get my sarcasm

I´m sorry but this just makes me laugh!!!   

As for the rest of your post....I´m really sorry that your outlook is so

It might behoove you to do some research into all of the studies that have been done on sexual offenders and their reasons for doing what they do....

I am curious though.....what was it you were wearing all those times that you were molested and fondled? (it does seem from your posts that it´s happened to you quite a bit!!!)

Now I shall sit idly by and wait for your retort (that´s for si --) 

Are you all not fed up of this issue yet ?

There is a saying in Turkish " Delinin teki kuyuya bir taş atmış kırk akıllı [taşı] çıkaramamış"

" A mad person threw a stone into the well, 40 clever people couldnt get it [the stone] out the well "

 OK, tunci...I love this quote!  Thank you and yes, I believe I have said all I have to say on the matter but you have to admit it is always interesting to see how other people from different cultures feel about a particular set of circumstances, no?  You just never know what forum post is going to spark a debate!

jeans, 3/4 length sleeved blouse and a scarf around my neck, satisfied?

it is a shame that all of you remember me mentionning that little 15 minute incident but forget that I had also mentionned that the rest of the month I spent in Turkey was the most beautiful time I spent there.  That I have said that I was treated like a queen and that the people I met were the most generous and friendly people.

I do not wallow in the woa is me because I am not and will never be a victim, he tried to get his way with me but more is the fact that his pains and bruises will last longer than mine because he got his butt kicked by a woman, that is not the most ego flattering thing for a man.

it is true that people just love to see others miserable and only focus on their negative experiance, be it as short as it was. 

and as for sexual assault statistics, what about the statistics of female on male assault?  Oh yeah it is almost non existant, do you want to know why?  Because it is not reported.  Same as female on male physical abuse, they do not report it because it is taboo for a man to say that he is beaten on a regular basis by his girlfriend or wife.  But we all know it happens.

in Romanian is the same one, about a mad person who threw a stone in water and 10 clever people couldnt get it out...

 sounds like your mad people in Romania throw smaller stone into the well as you need 10 people whereas we need 40 people...

beside the joke, I observed that astonishingly there are quite few sayings are said in diffirent cultures smilarly..

Don´t you see stumpy, your response only serves to prove my point.  It does not matter what you were wearing. 

Clothing, flirting, looks......... have nothing to do with it!  Be it a woman, a man or a CHILD that is assaulted. 

And really...don´t feel that everyone is focused on your "little" event....it is relevant here because of the topic of converstation...that is all.

And yes tunci...I am finished

You have not forget that You, the Turks, were here, in Romania....güzel senin için akşam geçirmesini diyorum

 I agree Elisabeth that we should hear and respect other people´s views on the forums. It is always interesting that we all learn from eachother. But one thing I dont get my head round is why most of them end up running Turks down ? Sorry but thats not right .

Bet you didn´t except all this when you asked for a simple translation?

 Girleegirl I cant chain your thoughts , thats not my job to tell you finish or go on.

 Evet, We were in Romania ! Greetings from Turkey to Former Ottoman Land Romania..!

Sana da güzel bir akşam geçirmeni dilerim Elena.

it is fun 

Don´t get me wrong, tunci, but the problem is in you. You take it too seriously. That´s why people who want nothing but attention keep on teasing you. Don´t get provoked when you are intentionally provoked. I know it´s difficult, the same often happens to me also.

I agree   Isn´t this what a forum is for - discussion?  Or is it just to praise Turkey and get translations for our dudus?

Lemon, I am the only one here to understand you.. and a friendly warn.. stop arguing with him.. you are a one man army but his army is more crowded than chinese army  

 That shows your mentality...what else can be said ???

I think it´s otherwise.. he is always the first to provoke! 

 I understand that it makes you feel bad when negative things are said about Turks.  It kind of bothers me when everyone goes on an American/Western hate fest too...but I sit and listen because many of the points that are made may be hurtful but are still valid and even if they are not valid, they reveal a very deep anger people have towards the west/US which I feel compelled to acknowledge.  As an American married to a Turk (he has never been a waiter!  ) it is sometimes hard to hear criticism about Turkish men too but in acknowledging that some bad ones are out there IN NO WAY makes my husband look bad (or any of you other fine Turkish men on this site for that matter).  Anyway, tunci, I think very highly of Turks in general but I do have some criticisms too.     

So you are saying a forum is NOT for the purpose of discussion?

awwwwwwwwww

I am feeling hot.  

Scalpel , stop throwing coal into the fire ..beni proveke etme ...

And you are the one stiring up  ..

 Shall I have the waiter send over a cool drink?

But come on, abla thinks that she is really a big abla for everyone here, wise and kind. A better person than individuals like us. 

 Just make sure you are fully covered Lemon.  You don´t want to "throw chum into the water for the sharks"!!! 

I cant afford a drink unless it is free.

 Please...allow me.  One margerita complete with dudu is on its way.  Peace be with you!

I have to councel that with Stumpy.

Is it Scalpel?

 Yes...I am arranging your love connection with scalpel. 

Discussions are always fun But.. sometimes grammar fights over a dudu´s silly words may be more fun  

I thought we already had a chat room..Elisabeth did you change the forum into the chat room ?

 Anytime a topic is carried on and discussion goes back and forth it could be considered a "chat".  I think every member here has participated in discussions like this.....including you. 

Shall we start the flames up for your torching? 

chat room? good idea

Thank you Elizabeth! 

 No thanks, you carry on.. I am not gonna involve myself this. I regret the day I involved myself into this..good luck with your never ending chat..

 Oops...I think you are too late to say you don´t want to involve yourself!    How many comments have you made here? 

Now off to the chat room with you!!!! 

Would you like to dance with me?

Lütfen, hocam.. it´s not fun without you! 

By the way..I am wondering why our grammar teachers don´t like to have fun???  

 I am expecting a good dowry for her!

Erdinc was the same.....OMG...you don´t think?......

Yes, he was exactly the same... especially the same as si++ ... and I am wondering if si++ was erdinç in his former life  

Oooo!  Then I am doomed.....he deleted me....TWICE!!!

Dowry is a social evil!  

Did he?.. But this time you´re safe... he is not in power anymore 

The Republic of Turkey´s cleaners, waiters, receptionists, MPs, chefs, teachers, or the whole of the military.If you wish to speak of someone or a state in such a fashion then you should be part of that state.Turkey in itself is respectfull towards it citicens and to speak in a manner that you do with disrispect is like an attack of the turkish people.  You must first know what you speak of before you critesize something you do not know first hand.Please before commenting be respectfull of the country you are going to comment about.If you have experianced a bad event then do not blame the whole country for it but the person or persons in question that caused this, they in themselves do not represent the whole of Turkey.If you have had problems in the past which caused you to louse respect for a person do not disrespect a whole country because this only shows that you do not have selfrespect.

Your views are some of the strangest I have ever seen on this site! (and THAT is saying something! ).

What an insular life you must lead.  You are so well travelled (which you are happy to boast about in your profile) but have such territorial and narrow view on life.  I suppose your post means that you practice what you preach and have never made ANY negative comment at all EVER about any other country?  I don´t think so

Quote from you:-

"TURKEY IS JUST FOR TURKS..AND JUST TURKS CAN DISCUSS ABOUT TURK CULTURE AND ISLAMIC LIFE IN TURKEY..IT´S NOT INTERESTED ANYONE ...YOU SEE? pls DONT PASTE THIS LINK´S HERE ...THANK".

This is very very funny indeed!!!

To follow your advice we would need to delete all forums and discussions about TUrkish culture, music, places to visit, politics...in fact, they would have to close this site down

 Erdinç or Si++ , at least they have done something good for this site..what you load [except Scalpel] done for this site ???

I am glad you excluded Scalpel from that comment because he is an expert in language and better than you at English

They are trying their best to amuse you and yet you keep complaining.. shame on you!  

 haha..another childish comment..grow up my friend..I dont give a damn my English or the expert business...You are talking like 15 year old..

Thank you...wow! 

 Shame on you too that you are encouraging them on their rubbish talk. 

Well looks like Turksih Language Class has now become Turkish Bashing Class, what is it,  open season on Turkish people?

Wow!  That is quite dramatic there stumpy. 

Aren´t you the one who was lamenting earlier about how everyone focused on one incident that you posted about and then you turn a few comments made by a few people into this? 

Get a grip sweets.  I think if you took the time to read a bit then you would see that we all have a common love for Turkey and Turkish people on whole....it´s just that some don´t feel the need to pretend that EVERY Turk is omnipotent! 

not even worth it

I am not.. why would I?.. please, tunci, don´t behave like a grumpy dad.. just try to have fun!     

This is getting out of hand!!! 

• Stumpy, the only Turkey bashing that goes on this time of year is for the purpose of Thanksiving and Christmas dinner!  Stop your victim mentality and start learning to calling a spade a spade.
• Tunci - Scalpel is right, you are behaving like a grumpy old dad.  The more you play this role, the more you encourage us to play the naughty children.  You are very clever and a good teacher, but this forum is for other things other than teaching Turkish.  We stay out of the language forums so there is no need to say we are spoiling any Turkish practice eh?  Lighten up!  You exacerbate situations by coming in to a thread to criticise us and then complain that the thread is going on and on!  If you were really the serious and mature adult you pretend to be, you would ignore it and it would soon stop.
• Girleegirl is right, people on this site are here because they love Turkey.  Love is not about blind worship (despite what Stumpy thinks!!) it is about loving someone/something and seeing it´s faults too.  For example, I love my mum very much, but she nags me constantly and feeds me too much food when I visit

I am off to work - have a wonderful day

 Feeds you too much ... hmmm.... is she Turkish???

Have a great day too.