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Few Sentences-Covers multiple areas of grammar
(23 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
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10.       tunci
7149 posts
 06 Apr 2012 Fri 02:07 am

 

Köprüden dolayı şehriyle tamır etmedi, onu yıkıldı. -Because the bridge wasn´t repaired by the city, it collapsed.

Köprü, şehir tarafından onarılmadığından [dolayı] yıkıldı.[çöktü]

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"-dan dolayı " form is referring more like ending with "negative" results

example ;

Çok kitap okuduğundan [dolayı] gözleri bozuldu --> Because he read alot of books, his eyes gone wrong. [his eyes weakened  ]

 

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11.       Mavili
236 posts
 08 Apr 2012 Sun 06:49 am

I have seen your corrections, and appreciate them always Smile, I have just been busy at the end of the last weeks between my job and classwork. But I am almost finished with these classes, and next term I hope to have more spare time to come here.

Quoting tunci

 

Müzeyi kapanmadan ziyaret ettik. -We visited the museum before it closed.

 

 

 

Hmm I had thought if we were using visited, in past tense, you´d just add -madan to kapat and that past tense is implied through ziyaret ettik Well, at least i had not thought the passive for kapat. Though I closed is also past tense. hmm so I suppose its like saying "We visited the museum, before (it was closed(by them)) ?

 

12.       tunci
7149 posts
 08 Apr 2012 Sun 08:44 pm

 

Quoting Mavili

I have seen your corrections, and appreciate them always Smile, I have just been busy at the end of the last weeks between my job and classwork. But I am almost finished with these classes, and next term I hope to have more spare time to come here.

Hmm I had thought if we were using visited, in past tense, you´d just add -madan to kapat and that past tense is implied through ziyaret ettik Well, at least i had not thought the passive for kapat. Though I closed is also past tense. hmm so I suppose its like saying "We visited the museum, before (it was closed(by them)) ?

 

 

Exactly.

 

13.       Mavili
236 posts
 11 Apr 2012 Wed 04:07 am

 

Quoting tunci

 

O yüzüde kar eriyediği, solgun bir yüz çıktı. -When the snow on his face melted, a pale face emerged.*

the snow on his face ---> Yüzündeki kar

when melted --> eridiğinde

a pale face emerged.* -->  solgun bir yüz ortaya çıktı.

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Yüzündeki kar eridiğinde , solgun bir yüz ortaya çıktı.

Gittiklerinde oldukça üzgündük

It starts with the subordinate clause correct? And I think I see the difference but I want to make sure. 

Yüzündeki kar eridiğinde , solgun bir yüz ortaya çıktı.

eridiğinde (when it melted) is the subordinate clause, correct? But does not start the sentence because there is the expression of place (yüzündeki) which comes before in the standard order? and everything after -eridiğinde is the main clause?

14.       Abla
3648 posts
 11 Apr 2012 Wed 09:21 am

Quote:Mavili

Yüzündeki kar eridiğinde , solgun bir yüz ortaya çıktı.

eridiğinde (when it melted) is the subordinate clause, correct?

 

 

Yüzündeki kar eridiğinde is the embedded subordinate clause. It has a subject part (yüzündeki kar ´the snow on his face´ ) and a predicate part (eridiğinde ´when it melts´ ) like it would have if it was an independent clause. An embedded clause is a constituent of the main clause, in this case it answers the question ´when´:

 

              solgun bir yüz ortaya çıktı ´a pale face came in sight´, WHEN?

              - kışın

              - sabah saat yedide

              - yüzündeki kar eridiğinde.....

 

It´s like any adverbial of time, it´s just happens to be a whole sentence.

 

In order to understand the syntax don´t look at single words only but try to find the phrases.



Edited (4/11/2012) by Abla

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15.       Mavili
236 posts
 11 Apr 2012 Wed 03:15 pm

Okay, now I see, thanks Abla. 

16.       Mavili
236 posts
 21 Apr 2012 Sat 07:46 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

Üç yıldır tıp okuyan Ayşe gelecek yıl yeni bir klinikte çalışacak. 

 

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Another example ;

Turkish, which is an easy language to learn, is getting popular in the world.

Öğrenilmesi kolay bir dil olan Türkçe , dünyada popülerleşiyor [yaygınlaşıyor].

  subordinate clause           Subject      Main clause

"Üç yıldır tıp okuyan Ayşe"  Is this the same construction as Lewis´ ´başıbozuk´ construction? Where it becomes an adjectival phrase, with the verb in present participle. (okuyan)

and i presume its the same in your next example where "olan" is the present participle verb when öğrenilmesi became a noun?

Was reading a bit of the book last night and read about adjectival phrases and remembered your example. Do you have any insight into this construction? How does it differ from the use of -dik in sentences like the previous:

Onu gördüğümde mavi elbise giyen hoş bir bayanla beraberdi -when I saw him, he was with a lovely woman wearing a blue dress.

17.       tunci
7149 posts
 21 Apr 2012 Sat 10:23 pm

 

 

Quoting Mavili

 

"Üç yıldır tıp okuyan Ayşe"  Is this the same construction as Lewis´ ´başıbozuk´ construction? Where it becomes an adjectival phrase, with the verb in present participle. (okuyan)

and i presume its the same in your next example where "olan" is the present participle verb when öğrenilmesi became a noun?

Was reading a bit of the book last night and read about adjectival phrases and remembered your example. Do you have any insight into this construction? How does it differ from the use of -dik in sentences like the previous:

Onu gördüğümde mavi elbise giyen hoş bir bayanla beraberdi -when I saw him, he was with a lovely woman wearing a blue dress.

 

I never heard of ´başıbozuk´ term in Turkish grammar.

In the fırst example the subordinate clause ´...olan ´ modified the noun ´Ayşe´.

In the second example the subordinate clause "...giyen" modified the noun ´hoş bir bayan´

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likewise;

In the sentence "öğrenilmesi kolay olan " modified the noun  "Türkçe´    

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Onu gördüğümde and others that ends with time gerund "-dIkInda " are adverbial clauses. Since they refer the specific time of the action that has taken [going to take] place.




Edited (4/21/2012) by tunci

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18.       Abla
3648 posts
 21 Apr 2012 Sat 10:37 pm

Lewis uses the term başıbozuk for structures like

 

            başı bozuk adam (< adamın başı bozuk)

            kızı hukuk okuyan adam (< adamın kızı hukuk okuyor)

 

There is always a possessive construction in the embedded sentence. They are equivalents to certain kinds of English relative clauses (starting with whose).

 

Sometimes the present participle of olmak is needed in the construction:

 

             evi büyük olan bir arkadaşım (< arkadaşımın evi büyük)

 

I can´t answer Mavili´s question though. I just happened to read the book.

 

 

19.       tunci
7149 posts
 21 Apr 2012 Sat 10:47 pm

 

Quoting Abla

Lewis uses the term başıbozuk for structures like

 

            başı bozuk adam (< adamın başı bozuk)

            kızı hukuk okuyan adam (< adamın kızı hukuk okuyor)

 

There is always a possessive construction in the embedded sentence. They are equivalents to certain kinds of English relative clauses (starting with whose).

 

Sometimes the present participle of olmak is needed in the construction:

 

             evi büyük olan bir arkadaşım (< arkadaşımın evi büyük)

 

I can´t answer Mavili´s question though. I just happened to read the book.

 

 

 

So it is relative construction then. evi büyük olan bir arkadaşım [ A friend of mine whose house is big]

and relativizer is " -An" [whose]

20.       tunci
7149 posts
 21 Apr 2012 Sat 11:03 pm

 

-dIk is also used as "determining participle" [ Belirtme Ortacı]

Okuduğum kitap --> The book that I read  --> It determines the specific book. The book that I read.


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If we use -An,

Kitap okuyan adam --> The man who is reading a book

Kitap okuyan adama çay ver --> Give tea to the man who is reading a book.

Adamın okuduğu kitabı buraya getir --> Bring the book that the man is reading.[has read]

 

 



Edited (4/22/2012) by tunci

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