Wonderful news: Arabs love Turks!

A recent study by the prominent Turkish think tank TESEV has found that Turkey is the most popular country for the people of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Palestine, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iraq (and Iran). As well as its methodology (the research is based on telephone interviews with over 2,000 people), the principal finding of the study was impressive: The Arabs like Turkey. 

That’s wonderful news. If in the near future Turkey should consider applying for membership of the Arab League, instead of the European Union, the accession process should be much smoother and eventual membership guaranteed. But Turks are not Arabs? Never mind, they are not Europeans either. 

According to TESEV, the Arab love affair with Turkey has four explanations: the country’s economic power; its democratic credentials; its Muslim-ness, and; its fierce pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli polity. It is puzzling why Arabs think Turkey, with its roughly $10,000 per capita income, and not Saudi Arabia or the much-wealthier-than-Turkey Gulf countries, is an economic power. Similarly, Turkey’s “democratic credentials” could be considered a joke when viewed through a western compass; but, sadly, they are in fact “impressive” for the Arab world, confirming what this column refers to as the “bon pour l’Orient” reality. 

More problematic is the Arab thinking on the good criteria to like and dislike: Muslim-ness and anti-Israeli polity. Although Muslims often – and sometimes rightfully — complain of Islamophobia in the West; their own mindset unmistakably reveals powerful evidence of Judeo-phobia. In fact, the same study found that over 60 percent of Middle Easterners polled view Israel and the United States as the biggest obstacle to peace in their region. 

Some observers believe the findings of the survey reflect “Muslim modernity.” What they deem as “modernity” is indeed “modernity” if we understand that to mean posh villas, fancy cars, internet use, more advanced electronic toys and tablet computers. All the same, “I-like-him-because-he-is-Muslim” or “I don’t-like-him-because-he-is-not” can hardly be defined as modern thinking. For instance, a recent study revealed that Turks think books are the 132nd most important commodity in their lives. Gucci headscarves must have found a better ranking in this newfound Muslim modernity!

And according to TESEV’s poll, Turkey, whose popularity was measured at 78 percent, was followed by the United Arab Emirates (UAE - 70 percent), Palestine (66 percent), China (65 percent), Saudi Arabia and Lebanon (64 percent) and Egypt (62 percent) in terms of positive sentiments felt. So, the Arab “top five” are: Turkey, the UAE, Palestine, China and Saudi Arabia. Which, in other words, tells us the Arabs are certainly not craving democracy! Modernity? 

Modernity, in fact, is to question the wisdom behind feeling attached, en masse, to the world’s most undemocratic countries. Modernity is to long for better democracies, not autocracies merely because these autocracies share one’s own religion, or, in the case of China, have either no religion or a religion which the Arab respondent does not view hostile. 

Ironically, the advocates of the fancy terms “liberal Islam,” “Muslim democracy,” and “Muslim modernity” are unintentionally discriminating against their fellow worshippers. The contents of liberalism, democracy and modernity are universal. Prefixes and suffixes around Islam/Muslim only mean that Islam/Muslims are not good enough to embrace these universal values; that their faith puts practical limits on the degree to which Muslims can enjoy democratic/modern/liberal culture as they are universally defined. 

Oh, by the way, what a simple twist of fate! The Middle Eastern refugees passing by way of Turkey almost invariably seek new homes in the non-Muslim lands of the West, instead of the countries they so dearly love: Turkey, the UAE, Palestine, China and Saudi Arabia…

Source: here

Hm, 2000 people by phone to represent the entire Arab world is a bit slim. And I didn´t know Iran was part of the Arab world, but perhaps that´s why it´s between (...). But back to my point, why don´t they just look at travel agency bookings or airline bookings? My guess is that China wouldn´t pop up so high, but Turkey still would.

Good point about the Judo-phobia. I have encountered this so many times, it´s not funny anymore! And I have to say, the media in the Islamic world is not helping either. I remember anti-Jewish remarks from my friends whenever Israel was on the Turkish (and Dutch) news for killing Palestines, but when Palestines were on the Dutch news for killing Israeli´s, somehow it didn´t show up in the Turkish news! And the difference between Israeli and Jewish is also not clear to a lot of people.

I think it´s good enough!

Let´s assume Arab population is 100 million people.

It hardly seems possible that surveying only 2000 adults
would be of any value. But it is, and it can be proved mathematically that if the
sample of 2000 adults is selected at random, then the results are accurate to
within 3% more than 95% of the time.

You can even simulate it yourself if you are able to code it and kow what Monte-Carlo simulation is. Just randomly create a population whose 80 % loves Turks (for example). And select 2000 samples out of that 100 million and you should get a result for that sample space within 77 to 83 % for 95 % of the times (i.e. 95% of the times your results would be in the range 1540 to 1660 ).

The population of the Arab League combined is over 355 million people, not 100 million. And in the research they also contacted people who live outside of the Arab League countries, so we have to deduct that of the 2000. So...I still think it is a bit slim.

That doesn´t make much difference (more can be read: here). It was just an example for illustration purpose.

Out of curiosity I coded a Monte-Carlo simulation with 355 million population (80% loves and 20% hates)  and 2000 samples and I get the results as expected.

Here is the result of first 17 experiment for 2000 samples selected randomly.

1: hates=380 loves=1620
2: hates=403 loves=1597
3: hates=414 loves=1586
4: hates=374 loves=1626
5: hates=405 loves=1595
6: hates=377 loves=1623
7: hates=412 loves=1588
8: hates=390 loves=1610
9: hates=396 loves=1604
10: hates=410 loves=1590
11: hates=385 loves=1615
12: hates=390 loves=1610
13: hates=405 loves=1595
14: hates=389 loves=1611
15: hates=372 loves=1628
16: hates=388 loves=1612
17: hates=407 loves=1593

(stopped it here as it was lengthy to run a simple experiment)

As can be seen, you get the ratios close to 80% for 2000 samples.

It didn´t say 80% love Turkey and 20% hates Turkey. It says popularity of Turkey is 78%, and some other countries were also mentioned. It actually says nothing about what question was asked exactly. I don´t know how this proves that Arabs love Turkey. It just another example of a news headline making a research result sound big or shocking, while the article itself doesn´t give much proof.

Right! I only showed how it works by modeling. I assumed they were asked "love or hate?" and they ansered "yes or no"?

1500 year old Bible found in Ankara

In an Ankara court, a 1500 year old Bible written in Aramaic with Syriac script was found and transported to a museum in Ankara. It´s reportedly worth some 40 million TLs (~23 m USD). It´s also reported that Vatican has asked for a permission to examine the Bible.

Ankara Adliyesi Adli Emaneti’nde 1500 yıllık bir İncil bulundu. Bugün´ün haberine göre, Hz. İsa’nın ilk öğütlerini verdiği Aramice dili ve Süryani alfabesiyle yazılı tarihi İncil, polis nezaretinde Ankara Etnografya Müzesi’ne devredildi. 8 yıldır adli emanette bekletildiği ortaya çıkan İncil’in değerinin 40 milyon lira olduğu tahmin edilirken Papalık, İncil üzerinde inceleme ve araştırma talebinde bulundu.

ETNOGRAFYA MÜZESİ’NE GİTTİ
Ankara Adalet Sarayı’nda değeri 40 milyon lira olduğu iddia edilen 1500 yıldan fazla tarihe sahip İncil olduğu iddia edidi. Sekiz yıldır adli emanette tutulduğu belirlenen İncilmahkeme kararıyla polis eşliğinde vemakam otosuyla Etnografya Müzesi’ne eslim edildi. İlk incelemelerde Süryanilere ait olduğu belirlenen İncil’in Aramice diliyle Süryanice alfabeyle yazıldığı öğrenildi. Deri üzerine yazılmış, deri kaplamalı İncil’in kültür varlığı olduğu ve müzelik değeri olduğu için koruma altına alındığı kaydedildi.

Source: here and here

This is one of the most idiotic articles I have ever read. Anyone calling himself a journalist must first of all know about the basic facts about his/her country. What can the audience of this piece of junk article be: primary school students? Comparing Turkey with Saudi Arabia a welfare society almost singularly dependent on oil, with a country featuring economic depth and diversity essentially based on the hard work of its people. This guy doesn´t even know income per capita doesn´t denote economic power. I am sure he hails Kuwait and Luxembourg as economic giants too.

Turkey has a much larger economy than even the richest Arab League country (about twice as large as Saudi Arabia) and its GDP per capita is better than most Arab countries save a few oil-rich ones.

Let´s set the record straight, most Turkish people don´t like Arabs and vice-versa. It is only through the efforts of our Arab loving government that we are getting popular in the region. Our TV shows also help with our publicity. It is not that I endorse this lack of affection but it is unfortunately true.

Unfortunately, most of our journalists are utterly shallow creatures. Many of them are bigots to start with, some are sexist and some are machos. There are female columnists writing about their g-strings and some advocating hijab claiming that would liberate them. It is getting more and more difficult to find a piece of news free from bias, partiality and bigotry.

So maybe it was an idiotic article but it woke you from your coma!  Where have you been? 

Vineyards,

as usually, words of wisdom. Nice to read you.

I suggest you go to article link provided and add those comments in that page. Maybe you can sort it out with him. Your comments here probably will go unnoticed by him.

Thank you for your suggestion si++. The problem is he would rank about the last on the list of journalists that I am pissed off with. In fact, I had not even heard of him before reading what looks like his primary school composition assignment.

Thank you for bringing this into our attention but I hate these formula articles where the writer takes the freedom of ignorantly raving about the results of a poll which he sees a chance to inject his irrelevant opinions.

My father has serious health problems and the doc says my blood pressure has gone up due to excessive stress. Thanks for asking where I have been. I hope I can spend more time here from now on.

Judaphobia, Turkophobia etc.; these words were not tokenized for nothing. There are indeed all sorts of phobias in the world. Many of them are deep-rooted. One such phobia is Turkophobia. From our perspective, it is so strong, anyone who lived in Turkey through the 70´s and 80´s would tell you, the Christian world hates Turkey and they have rarely sided with Turkey in any international conflict. This is very slowly getting weaker but it is far from over. A few days ago, an old Italian colleague of mine was with me in Istanbul. He confirms that by saying: there are still many Italians who think Turks, Iranians and Arabs are all Islamic fundamentalists and they must be avoided. He adds those who had a chance to visit Turkey have a totally different opinion.

There is no fast and easy cure for hatred. It is human nature. No matter how advanced we get, we still have the instincts of a beast. Though we act on a more complicated abstraction layer, we still display the same behaviour pattern of the stone age caveman.

Sorry to hear about your father´s health.  Best wishes to you both.  Your thought provoking posts have been missed!

Thank you.

And I used to hate you so much. What a stupid person was I (still am)!

Take care of yourself, you are not as old as your father. You are to live to look after your son´s sons. 

Post more, please.

Ok, as long as we don´t forget that most people are friendly, emphatic, unselfish and ready to help. To the extent that it surprises me over and over. These qualities are as typical to humans than cruelty and greed, which are often the fruit of ignorance.

 Çok geçmiş olsun Vineyards.

Of course, humans have good and bad qualities. In fact, that is the starting point of almost all the religions. For example, according to Zoroastrianism (a 3200 year old religion) which can be considered the basis of many later celestial religions: God has two spirits: Spenta Mainyu and Angra Mainyu or in other words good spirit and bad spirit. These two constantly fight with each other. Humans are free to follow either spirit but it was said in the end Spenta Mainyu is destined to win.

In this ancient religion, there is a superior God Ahura Mazda who is the father of these two. From there you can guess it serves the basis for the holy trinity tenet of Christianity. Gathas (the holy book) is like a source of inspiration for later religions. In Islam there is a bridge called Sırat. All the mortals will eventually walk through that that bridge to reach heaven. If you are an evil person you are bound to fall down to hell. This entire story was borrowed from the Gathas. Both Christianity and the ancient Egyptian religion have similar mentions.

If you read, Zoroasters dialogues with Ahura Mazda you will realize why this ancient prophet needed a God. There have always been wicked people in the world. Nonetheless, evil and good have relative meanings. Take Al Qaeda, they base all their actions on God´s orders and they risk or sacrifice their lives to implement those so-called orders. If religion is a way to reach good how can they be bad? But in fact, from a Western perspective they are the devils.

Teşekkür ederim / Thanks.

No we both did what we thought right. There is no reason to regret. We could get bitter in the future too. This shows we ardently defend our causes and are willing to come to terms when there is a chance for agreement.

Thank you for your good wishes. My father has the lung cancer. Let this be another warning for smokers.

I am sorry to hear that vineyards. geçmiş olsun. It is hard to see our parents weak. I hope you are able to bear up well. Take care of yourself.

I hope smoking in Turkey has diminished a great deal. I stopped smoking a few years ago and now find it really bothers me to be around the smoke from smokers. Where I live, in California, there are very strict anti-smoking laws. I used to hate them, but now I´m glad for their existance.

It is a difficult thing to stop smoking. It is more than one habit, it is many combined into one.

Thank you. Smoking is the plague of the century. People must always go to the extremes before realizing what kind of a mistake they have been doing. My father stopped smoking months before the diagnosis but 60 years of smoking had already done enough harm. He has been suffering from COPD for a couple of years. Now, the cancer. How can anyone contrinue smoking knowing that the fate is invariably either of these two diseases. One of them causes people to get exhausted just by walking a few meters and the other dooming them to premature death. How irresponsible people get just for pleasure. I see chain-smoking mothers. Sources of bad examples are plenty. People tend to think life is endless at young age. Take Adele, this young singer see no problem declaring she would prefer smoking over becoming a mother. We need to become wiser...

It makes me happy hearing Arabs love us. No matter what it is good thing to be loved.

It is hard to explain why people smoke. I know it would have been impossible to just "stop" smoking without the social infrastructure that helped. It becomes a part of you and it also entails many habits. There is the blowing of the smoke, flicking the ashes, lighting it, different ways of holding it. Then there are all the accroutrements to go with it. There are fancy lighters, holders, ashtrays and the list goes on.

I was quite an acommplished smoker. I had a rich aray of props to go with my smoking. I could blow beautiful smoke rings, and even blow rings in rings. I could light a match with my thumbnail, or a match book with one hand. There was a whole array of different ways to hold it. It seemed glamerous, a little risque. It was glamorized in the films. If anyone has seen the old films with Marlene Dietrich and others smoking. Look at this video of famous smoking actresses. The tobacco companies spent millions to have them smoke. I did some research on it and found $100,000 was not an unusual amount, plus free cigarettes, and that was in the 1940s.

Tobacco tastes good to some. I think much of the problems with smoking isn´t as much the actual tobacco as it is the additives.

Little by little it has ceased to have glamor. In fact smokers have become social pariahs. It wasn´t the nicotine I loved, it was all the little habits and affectations that went along with it I loved.

People here look at you now with a Ewww look when they smell your garments. You can´t rent an apartment, nobody wants to hire a smoker. All in all smoking is very hard to do here in the SF Bay Area. In fact pretty much all of California is anti smoking. I only have a couple of friends who still smoke. Being around them bothers me now. I love them, but the smoke bothers my sinus and I get congested after spending time with them. I shudder to think of what may happen if I am around friends who smoke. It really bothers me now.....

Where you able to blow a form of a 3 masted sailing ship like Gandalf in the lord of the rings?

But seriously smoking is very difficult to quit, I myself have been trying to quit for 2 years now.

....no I was not that talented. I was finding the whole process too much trouble to continue. The anti smoking thing has become an international event. Soon there will be no place to smoke. I watched it cover the world.

Good luck with your efforts to quit. The questions are, do you still enjoy it, are you feeling negative health effects from it?

FWIW I quite cold turkey. In the end I think it´s the best way. I found taking walks and smelling flowers, taking deep breaths (instead of inhaling smoke) filling my lungs with fresh air helped.

I used to smoke too. I was a chain smoker. It all started in the university. I was enjoying the freedom of being at the helm of my own life in a different city. My father was about my age then. He had no health problems. No one got burned out of smoking. It was just the cigarette burning one after another. Entrance was free, friends kept offering until they thought I became a freeloader who needs to pay for his own cigarettes. My mind was busy then. Perils of smoking were so low on my list, I did not give that any thought. Years followed one another. I became a regular smoker with firm preferences about the brand I smoke, the time I start smoking and the thing that I drank with it. Cigarette seemed to give me peace of mind and concentration when I was in need of a boost in my cognitive skills. It acted as a painkiller and a tranquilizer.

Then one day in February 2001, I decided to quit never to smoke again which I did. I dumped everything smoking gave me and regained my lung capacity. As a mild asthma sufferer, I would say that was one of the best decisions I have ever made. That was also the hardest decision with consequences so hard to endure. Years after quitting, I was still smoking in my dreams. I just did not light that single cigarette which saved me from relapsing to the smoking habit.

Now I ask myself this question: why would someone smoke knowing its hazards? I think many people (including myself) have tons of mild psychological disorders. These are so mild, we don´t recognize them easily. With many people around us suffering from similar problems, we sleep on those problems and resort to smoking and/or drinking for an easy cure. Smoking is the aspirin of temperament problems. The bad feeling goes away but the suffering remains. When you don´t smoke, you become more aware of your condition and seek help.

There is so much to say about the psychological, sociological and economic aspects of smoking. Like anything related to humans, it is so complicated. It is the tell-tale sign of a very serious social dysfunction.

It was a cold february evening in 2010 and I was on my way back home, and behind the steering wheel of my car I smoked the last cigarette in the box.. As I was considering to stop smoking since a while ago, I wanted to promise myself not to smoke again (I had been smoker for over 15 years  .. It was my last cigarette.. I enjoyed it as much as I could and that last one felt really good It´s been two years now since I stopped smoking.. I miss it from time to time but I am determined not to smoke again.. 

This is the exact place where I lit my last cigarette:

p.s. lemon will you please "like this message" also? 

Yes I still enjoy smoking and I had medical tests done not long ago and the specialist told me that if I would not have told her I was a smoker for 28 years she would not have known,  the x-rays of my lungs were like the ones of non smokers and the exhale test, well I can empty my lungs out at 94% wich is better than some non smokers.

I have on the other hand cut down the amounts of cigarettes I smoke, I went down from 2 packs a day to about 10 to 15 cigs a day, eventually I will stop but for now I do not feel ready.

 working in the health field I laugh when I hear idiots claim their lungs are the same as that of a nonsmoker. What about the rest of your body? Smoking increases the risk of many different diseases including heart attacks ( which we all know you have claimed to have had)

heart disease, emphysema, bronchitis, stroke, cataracts, bone diseaes, reynards sydrome, trouble getting pregnant - slow fetus growth when you do, linked to lung throat mouth nasal stomach pancreatic acute myeloid cancer..............on top of hurting others nearby which can include or induce asthma, ear infections, sudden death syndrome.... the list goes on.

I suggest you seek both therapy and counselling as not are you only hurting yourself you hurt others around you too.

Stumpy  last year you had heart issues........ duh.......it´s a no brainer quit while you are still alive

nothing worse than seeing an overweight patient suffering from a self inflicted illness.... I have no sympathy when they refuse to help themselves.

smoking is bad.......... just don´t do it

not attacking you just informing you and anyone else about the vile habit of taking smoke into you lungs, Remember when you were a child and safety in a fire was stop drop and crawl out of the smoke. There was a reason why you should not inhale smoke into you lungs

Don´t be too hard on other people, acute dear. We don´t know anyone else´s story. What is easy for me is difficult for someone else.

I smoked for a few years in my youth. When I learned I was pregnant with my first child I quit the same day. It was natural and easy, no second thoughts ever. It was easy because I did it for someone else. If it was for me I doubt if I ever would have found myself worth it.

Sixteen years later the same boy, as a highschool student, began to smoke himself and I couldn´t do anything about it.

If you were taken to the top of a cliff or a building and told to jump with no one explaining the dangers to you - would you?

how about putting your hand in a burning fire?

with news about health issues being on tv in newspapers and internet why would you make an excuse for self inflicted stupidity.

When a person does something completely stupid and it is brought to the attention of others - the results are often what were you thinking or why were you not thinking.

I bring the same issue to drug addicts, smokers and alcoholics there was a time when you had the opportunity to say no to it. A time to quit it.

why should over taxed health care be used on self-servient people who stands there saying oh let me have one more cigarette before i start my chemo treatment........ a bunch of weak minded idiots who should just get on with their new disease at home by themselves.

I have no mercy or compassion for those who committ suicide slowly and cause others pain by having to watch them do this.

As someone who works in the health field you should have sympathy for patients. Yes, everyone should be treated similarly with taxpayers´ money no matter how many mistakes they have done in their life. And yes, you should light the last cigarette for the cancer patient who is going to have his chemo therapy.

It´s called mercy.

I like the Islamic idea of shared guilt. The whole sin is not on the final user but all those who benefit from a bad habit are to blame. When it comes to tobacco, it means every one from the farmer to the seller of the corner kiosk. A whole lot of people. Plus the smoker himself. In the limits of their freedom of choice they should all say no.

accute my infarction was cause by a blood clot that was the result of a bruise I had on my thigh, it detached and made it´s way to my heart and before and after my heart attack I got an A+ bill of health so think what you want.

I am more healthy than probably you are but seems that the outward appearance of a person allows you to judge them and determine that they do not exercice, eats nothing but junkfood, is an alcoholic and a drug addict.

That is a biggoted way of thinking that is way more harmfull than my 10 to 15 cigarettes I smoke a day and unfortunetly that way of thinking falls into the same stupid category you have put others in and unfortunatly there is not cure for it, welcome to the club!

I am happy to see also that you have lived a sheltered and insulated life where it seems you did not suffer from peer presure and social conventions which many of us are now trying to shed habits picked up because of it. 

oh and by the way accute thank you for turning this post which I was finding supportive and incouraging into a "you are so stupid for..." post

your welcome

keep on smoking and eating and lets see what happens  to your health in the next few years. keep me posted

oh how it is nice to be able to tell others that they are not perfect like you

OK. It is quite obvious that the smoking problem or excessive kilos is not a problem between us. Those are our individual problems and the best help you can offer to others (if you are sincere) would be sharing your own experience. I think I tried to share mine as it came to my mind.

In fact, anyone would realize that I am going through a special period in time. I am in the process of losing my father and the reason is his smoking habit. Hence the apparent touchy language of my previous post. I tried to reveal my feeling as much as my English would let me.

There must always be someone who does not quite like the tone or the words or even the mood with which an article is written. For your information, I hardly ever state that I like a message. It just may have a statistical significance. In my opinion, every opinion can be considered right in a certain context. Sometimes, people say they like my messages, sometimes people say they hate them. It is all up to them. I have nothing else to say about their preferences.

Vineyard I have nothing but respect for you and your difficult situation you are going through. I support and understand your pain. What I don´t support is people who laugh off that they now only smoke 15 cigarettes a day and are a vision of health. What about the people around them..... the ones like you that have to watch them with COPD and lung cancer and when they wait until the start of downfall of health before they do anything to stop their habit.

There are drugs, therapy and support if they want it , but they always wait till it is to late.

Smoke hurts the small capillaries, veins and arteries which also could be a reason why a blood clot exists and doesn´t heal proper. I have seen to many people die from smoking and drinking and overdoses to say it is ok even in moderation. 

I SAY NO TO SMOKING DRINKING AND DRUG FOREVER

I have held the hands of many who are distract as they watch their fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, spouses, children or spouses go down this path to  be nice about it and put a pink fluffy blanket on it and say lets pretend......

I wish you well and all the strength you can muster for this trying time and hope that history will not repeat with your son.

take care and regards

Let me have a say on this matter. My father always smoked as long as I know him and now %70 of his lungs doesnt work. And do you know what he is doing now? He is still smoking. He will die because of it and he doesn´t care. If I had the power I would lock him in a room and save his life but this is not possible. So please stop smoking and killing yourselves and pay attention what acute says. Because she says the bitter truth.

living like a veggie!.. 

Okay.. no smoke, no drug.. but..

will you  let me have some Rakı with my dinner please? No?

My grandfather lived to the ripe old age of 96, smoked all his life and eat red meat and drank alcool.

What acute so obviously missed is that I went from 50 cigarettes(2 packs) a day down to 10 to 15 cigarettes.  For some quitting cold turkey is impossible, it has to be done gradually.  My exact quote:  I have on the other hand cut down the amounts of cigarettes I smoke, I went down from 2 packs a day to about 10 to 15 cigs a day, eventually I will stop but for now I do not feel ready.

I have always exercised, I am probably more involved in sports than she is and also I am a vegetarian, have been since way before my infarction. 

So for her to judge me by the pictures she has seen on my facebook and be able to asses my health condition by those photos is rather complicated.  Before she comes and tells me to louse weight she should take a good look at herself because I have seen pictures of her also and she is rather a little round herself.  It is rather hypocritical of her to tell me to stop stuffing my face, maby she should heed her own advice.

I know the bitter thruth about life being short, my cardiologist said that I should not have survived my infartion, it is rare that a person in their late 30´s early 40´s survives an infarction, but I have no cholesterol build up in my arteries, no hardening of the arteries everything they said I should stop eating I do not eat and haven´t eaten in ages.  Eventually I will be a non smoker and people who have never smoked in their lives DO NOT KNOW how difficult it is.  So to treat us smokers like the way she did is totally uncalled for. 

And one last thing when you have held the hand of a loved one who is dieing, who has never smoked, taken care of their health and was the picture of fitness and hear them say "why, I did everything the doctors and health specialists said to do and I am still dieing".  His last request to me was to share a good cuban cigar, a glass of my best scotch and a peice of chocolate cake, things that he did not normally have because his body was a "temple". Makes someone think, I find.

coodos to you acute if you do not smoke or drink and is the perfect picture of health, I would rather trust and be friends with people that have flaws, just do not judge others because karma is a bitch and it will come back and bite you in the backside and it really wasn´t nice what you said to abla but what can we expect from you

so once again you attack to take the attention off yourself ( most addicts will find a way to justify their own actions)

Bravo!

being a vegetarian and smoking is no different than a person who eats meat. It is the smoking part that will kill you and cause to not only burden family memebers and love ones it taxes our healthcare system with diesease that should not exist in todays society. Especially when we know the causes and reasons for them. I have no sympathy for someone who does not find the proper channels of help to quit an addiction. The money paid for your cigarettes would surely be put to better use. First off to help pay for you to quit and after that maybe a membership to a sport club to keep you active and physically strong for your ailing health and age. You might even make friends that you can help and share your difficult plight of being an x-smoker. I hope you find something in all of this battle back and forth to make you realize the damage you do to yourself. Like a car...............if you never do maintenance on it and feed it bad gas it will eventually quit on you......... is a no brainer really for anyone who smokes. Your body will just stop  healing the damage you do to it.

first you dont´ know me have never shared facebook with me. I have never shared photos with you or talked to you in private. I have only seen what you have posted on here and in the chat room. I just looked up who you are and seen all your photo´s of turkey visit etc...

second I am less than half your age never smoked never did drugs and exercise hard at least 30 minutess daily. I do not have a weight problem because I only eat what my body needs not what my eyes need.

Anyone including a 5 year old child will say that the smell  of cigarette smoke is yucky and it hurts theirs eyes and they choke when they catch a breath of it.They don´t like it and will say it is not good. So why would a grown adult find the way to practise breathing hot smoke filled with chemcials into their lungs till they get it perfect.? One cigarette two cigarettes or your fifteenth, it does not matter which cigarette causes cancer and other related health issues. It is like playing russian roulette with a gun partially loaded. I honestly believe that people who smoke, do illegal drugs or excessive drinking should not be allowed on the same healthcare list for translplant, surgeries or medical treatment as a nonsmoker. Now when they go through treatment for their abuse and are clean for at least 6 months  than they may join the others in our over burdened healthcare system again.

There really is not reason to smoke, you can not justify any reason that would make any sense. You don´t just wake up one day and say yes I am a smoker. You need to continue to practise it.

you could use nicotine patches and there is zoloft and other drugs that will take the curb off to help you quit.  It would be better to use these items for a couple months than to continue smoking. Therapy helps and hypnotherapy also can help some. What I am trying to get across is there is more than one way to quit. Especially where you live stumpy any doctor´s office will start the ball rolling to helping you quit.

And you are having a polite conversation?  If you think I have attacked you then so be it, seems we do not have the same definition of what attacking is

I guess you just don´t have enough common sense to see what lies ahead of you

According to the Lung Cancer Foundation of America, 60 per cent of new lung cancer diagnoses happen to non-smokers, 15 per cent of whom have never smoked a day in their life (the rest are former smokers who quit 10, 20 or even 30 years prior to diagnosis). The American Lung Association estimates that active smoking is responsible for close to 90 per cent of lung cancer cases; radon causes 10 per cent, and occupational exposures to carcinogens account for approximately 9 to 15 per cent.

The above statistics are a perfect example of prevention. If the evidence suggests that active smoking is responsible for 90 per cent of lung cancer cases then not smoking would eliminate 90 per cent of the lung cancer cases in the world. That’s huge because its one of the most common diagnosed cancers and one of the more deadly to be diagnosed with — especially at a later stage.

I guess what you can expect is for me to tell it like it is with regards to smoking and second that I will never be seen hanging out if front of an astray

If Abla wants to comment about what I said I think she is more than capable of speaking her mind. You don´t have to worry about this at all. I find that you are very resourceful in your ways to  give your smoking some credentials. I have a grandfather who drank and smoked all his life , to I now only smoke 15 cigarettes a day to I have held the hand of a person who died and never smoked. Perhaps they were around second hand smoke....... or they just had lousey genetics and were prone to a weakness in obtaining a certain disease. This all happens too but to speed it and reduce your mortality while harming non smokers with your exhales and stink is questionable to say the least.... at leas to me

Scalpel, darling, you know I love you, and I´ve always done.

Good you quitted.

Since I too am a healthcare worker and someone who took care of my aunt in her dying days (she died of lung cancer in 2006 after 50 years of smoking) I can relate to the passion that acute and some others have expressed.  I don´t particularly care for the tone of his posts toward another member of class but I do feel that stumpy´s initial post about how healthy she is despite being a smoker was very misleading and downplayed the affects of smoking. However, being a healthcare worker (I was a clinical laboratory scientist for 20 years and now work in hospital administration) it also gives me the unique opportunity and duty to educate people.  Smoking is ALWAYS bad.  You may live to the "ripe" old age of whatever or have the lungs of an XX year old but I can promise you that almost every health related issue seen in smokers is a direct result of smoking (including blood clots).  Lets all try to show a bit more compassion for people who suffer from addiction.  All addicted people need to justify and find reasons for going against common sence and combat the guilt they feel for making unhealthy choices.  Stumpy, although I don´t like the way acute attacked you personally (I will delete the posts) I must say I agree with the spirit of his post.  I hope you are able to quit someday.  

Elisabeth, I am amazed at how everyone stuck to the fact that I am a smoker but did not see that I am trying to quit 

But seriously smoking is very difficult to quit, I myself have been trying to quit for 2 years now.

I have on the other hand cut down the amounts of cigarettes I smoke, I went down from 2 packs a day to about 10 to 15 cigs a day, eventually I will stop but for now I do not feel ready.

But it seems that no one sees that just that I smoke, the only ones who truely understand are ex-smokers non smokers are clueless. 

Good luck in your efforts, stumpy.  I was able to quit before I got pregnant with my son 16 years ago and never picked up another cigarette.  It was a really hard thing to do so I can definitely relate.  

That´s pretty true..as an ex-smoker I understand you..I myself had tried it hard for about a year before I quit it.. Before quiting, 2 or 3 times I was strong enough to stop it for a month or so but then weak enough to restart..Now that it´s been 2 years since I stopped smoking, I need not nicotine anymore and I will never smoke it again

It is a great success to make it go from 40 down to 10 -15 pieces of cigarettes a day.. One of my fav quotes is: Sola dosis facit venenum. If I had been able to limit it up to 3 or 4 pieces a day- that a friend of mine has been doing it so for a couple of decades, I would have never stopped it!  I tried but unfortunatelly failed.. never was able to make it less then 10..   

Maybe I could quit it a few more years ago if the anti-smokers and their campaigns were a bit more smart than they were.. most of times they say things that only an idiot could believe.. For example they say "smoking causes sexual impotence" and they want a smoker to believe them who has been smoking for 30 years now and who has a great sexual potency   that´s why tons of wise men still keep smoking (including at least 50% of doctors) Not any of their statistics or campaigns, but I convinced myself to quit it.. And so you will do it..       

I wouldn´t call them (those who smoke) wise men.

Here is a short list of foolish people 

Oscar Wilde

Jean-paul Sartre 

Mark Twain

Albert Camus

Günter Grass

Bertolt Brecht

Sigmund Freud

John F. Kennedy

Pablo Picasso

I dislike all these men, esp. Freud. 

for those that read these posts and the lightbulb turns on there is help even on the internet

http://whyquit.com/ffn/index.html

http://lung.ca/protect-protegez/tobacco-tabagisme/stories-histoires/people-gens_e.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoking_cessation

Lemon, I am not surprised that you don´t like "all these men".. as she liked your message it is clear that so does acute I am happy that you two finally became friends This is the power of smoke!  This reminds me of a Turkish saying that may apply to this new friendship: Hacı hacıyı mekke´de, hoca hocayı tekkede, bok boku kenefte bulur". It says "for muslim pilgrims what is more normal than to meet each other in Mecca.." and so on   I wish this "fraternity of the enemies of smoke" last forever. Amen!   

Of course you two have the right of disliking "all these men". But it´s not the issue I am discussing. Just tell me do you think "all these men" are wise or foolish? If you think they are foolish, I will recommend you to visit a psychologist. But make sure that this psychologist is not a psychoanalyst. 

When I was a smoker the thing that I never understood, and was mad at of course, was those idiots that they thought they took care of me more than I did   When it is free people take care of others..but I bet they wouldn´t have given me a ´sou´ if I had starved from hunger. Do you think they would have?  

And last words.. probably even your own grand grandsons won´t know your names but "all these men" you dislike will be there shining till the doomsday.

I like them all.. esp. ATATÜRK  

but than again you were a smoker .........your mind was already poisoned.

As far as those particular people they went down in history the same way many mass murderors and movies stars etc... did. Actually nothing special about them nothing extraordinary - just in the right place at the right time but they should not be revered. All of them had dark spots and secrets too. You can find this also on internet.

Scalpel , no one who has written here about the harm with cigarette smoking has been trying to sell a particular product or health service. They are the true victum of others who are stupid enough to smoke. They are the witness´s to something not so great.... Don´t make a joke about smoking.

In all honesty no one can deny the dangers of smoking it has been known . As early as the Seventeenth Century, the European countries realized the dangers of smoking and fought against it Laws were ordained in England, Russia, Denmark, Sweden, Austria, and other countries, prohibiting smoking and punishing violators.

Smoking was introduced to the Muslim countries by the Europeans around 1000 AH. Its spread among the Muslims was similar to that in the West. The unfortunate fact, however, is that in the Muslim countries, no similar measures were exerted to protect the people from it. To the contrary, the media continues to adom smoking and encourage people to do it. This caused the epidemic of smoking to continue to spread in those countries to such an extent that it has become hard to control.

Smoking has become the rule, and abstaining from it the exception. Often, people look with astonishment and disdain at a person who when a cigarette is offered to him, declines to smoke explaining that he does not smoke.

Offering cigaretles to the guests has become among the first rules of hospitality. Anyone who does not offer them to his guests or insist on them to smoke would be violating the ethics of hospitality and generosity!

Furthermore, some of those who pretend to represent the Deen are among the worst addicts to smoking. When they are reproached or reminded of their vice, they respond by providing weak excuses to justify it in the name of Islaam. They slyly remark that there is no clear text prohibiting smoking. Therefore, they conclude, smoking is not prohibited, but is only makruh (disliked). By this, they provide a poor excuse for the ignorant, and establish a very bad example for others.

Many Muslims have been influenced by such statements, falling into the snares of addiction to smoking. This is observed all over the world. A striking example is that all American airlines now prohibit smoking, even on most international flights; on the other hand, for Muslim airlines, one travels in a near-suffocation state, even on short trips, because of the high number of smokers.

Thus, it becomes incumbent to write an article which provides evidence concerning the ruling of smoking in Islam. We hope that this will benefit our Muslim brothers and sisters; and we ask Allah (T) to accept it from us as a sincere deed for His pleasure.

Haram To The Deen

Smoking spoils a person´s acts of worship and reduces their rewards. For instance, it spoils the prayer, which is the pillar of Deen. Allah´s Messenger said: Whoever eats garlic or onion, let him avoid us and our masjid, and stay in his home. The angels are surely hurt by things that hurt the human beings⁽¹⁾

Those with clean and undefiled fitrah (nature) have no doubt that the smell emanating from the mouth of a smoker is worse and more foul than that from the mouth of one who ate garlic or onion. Thus, a smoker is in between two options, either to harm the praying people and the angels with his foul smell, or miss the prayer in jama´ah.

Smoking also spoils fasting. Fasting is very hard for the smoker. As soon as the day is over, he hastens to break his fast on an evil cigarette instead of sweet dates or pure water. Even if he fasts through the month Ramadan, a smoker is reluctant to fast on other days. Thus he loses the great reward of those who fast even one day in Allah´s way.

Harm To The Human Body

No one can deny the harm of smoking to the human body. The medical evidence for this is well established and overwhelming. Because of this, the law in the United States and many other countries requires including a warning on any smoking advertisement.

Smoking contains poisonous materials, such as nicotine, tar, carbon monoxide, arsenic, benzopyrene, etc., that the smoker swallows in small proportions. Their harm accumulates with time to result in a gradual killing of the human organs and tissues.

The hazards of smoking to the health are hard to enumerate. Cancer, tuberculosis, heart attacks, asthma, coughing, premature birth, infertility, infections in the digestive system, high blood pressure, nervousness, mouth and teeth diseases, etc., are among the many health hazards that have been strongly linked to smoking.

These diseases may not appear all at once, however a smoker is most likely to suffer from some of them, and his suffering increases as he grows older. Furthermore, statistics have established that smokers´ age is, on the average, ten years less than other people´s.

This is aufficient to prohibit smoking. Islam prohibits any action that causes harm to oneself or to other people. Allah (T) says (what means):

<<Do not kill yourselves, Allah is indeed merciful to you.> 

<<Do not cast yourselves, with your own hands, into destruction.>

And the Messenger says: No harm may be inflicted on oneself or others.

The feet of a human being will not depart, on the day of Judgement, from his standing before his Lord, until he is questioned about five things: his lifetime - how did he pass it, his youth - how did he used it, his wealth - where did he earn it and how did he spend it, and how did he follow what he knew.⁽⁵⁾

Whoever consumes poison, killing himself with it, then he will he consuming his poison in the hellfire, and he will abide in it permanently and eternally.⁽⁶⁾

<<And do not waste (your resources) extravagantly. Indeed the squanderers are the brethren of the devils>>⁽¹¹⁾

And the Prophet () said: Allah hates for you three things: gossiping, begging, and wasting money.⁽¹²⁾

the list goes on..............

In 2008, legislation was introduced banning smoking in taxis, shopping centers, and large-scale workplaces. The prohibition went surprisingly smoothly. On July 19, phase two of the ban took effect, prohibiting smoking in restaurants, bars and cafes. The move brought Turkey into line with legislation on the books in Western Europe and North America.

All Turksih Airlines flights are smoke free

Gulf Air Company  Within Middle East; Bahrain-England Bahrain-Austrailia, smoke free

Egyptair Domestic, smoke free

Royal Jordanian Airlines Within Middle East, smoke free

Kuwait Airways All within Gulf Region, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon; Between Beirut and Istanbul; Between Damascus and Larnaca, smoke free

Saudi Arabian Airlines, smoke free

Actually Stumpy if you really want to quit here is the deal. I am so adamant that smoking is harmful that I will aid you in quitting. You can pm and I will get the ball rolling.

if you need to take a prescription drug to aid you in the cessation of smoking. I will pay for it.

http://www.msss.gouv.qc.ca/sujets/santepub/tabac/index.php?aid=110

http://www.iquitnow.qc.ca/

http://www.ramq.gouv.qc.ca/en/citoyens/assurancemedicaments/regimepublic/produitsantitabac.shtml

looking at the last links  your own healthcare system will pay for you to quit and aid you too with the appropriate help.

Deleted personal attacks and locking the thread.