I have seen this question when watching "who wants to be a millionaire?".

1967´de bir dostluk maçı için gittiği, iç savaş süren Nijerya´da uğruna 48 saatlik ateşkes ilan edilen ünlü futbolcu kimdir?

Can you decode this sentence and translate it to English? Give yourselves some credits if you can.

Especially, can you properly mark the subclauses in it?

No native speakers please.

My Try:

Who is the famous footballer for whose sake a 48-hour cease-fire was announced in Nigeria where he went for the sake of a frienship match in 1967 and which was in civil war?

Well done! I would say "for a..." instead of "for the sake of a...". You used "sake" twice.

Now let´s break it up:

1967´de bir dostluk maçı için gittiği, iç savaş süren Nijerya´da uğruna 48 saatlik ateşkes ilan edilen ünlü futbolcu kimdir?

(O) 1967´de bir dostluk maçı için Nijerya´ya gitti.

(O zaman) Nijerya´da iç savaş sürüyordu.

(Onun) uğruna (Nijerya´da) 48 saatlik ateşkes ilan edildi.

Bu ünlü futbolcu kimdir?

The following is interesting.

iç savaş süren Nijerya´da

Nijerya is in no way the subject of the broken up sentence above.The following would also be OK:

iç savaşın sürdüğü Nijerya´da

Similar sentences:

İçinde yemek pişen tencere, or

İçinde yemeğin piştiği tencere

Yıldırım düşen ev, or

Yıldırımın düştüğü ev

İkramiye çıkan adam, or

İkramiyenin çıktığı adam

Now that you mentioned it, yes, there is actually an interesting short-cut in the relative clause

iç savaş süren Nijeriya’da

If I tried to translate it e-t I would probably use the personal participle iç savaşın sürdüğü Nijeriya’da. It must be some kind of a borderline case as both alternatives are acceptable. It looks like playing with subject roles which is probably easier with infinite than finite forms. I knew –dik- participle is flexible but it’s the first time I see –en- participle modify anything but its logical subject (well, no wonder because I didn’t notice it).

Thank you, si++. Why don’t you provide us with some more tricky sentences?

I will when I find another.

The difference appears to be related to the subject of the subclause. With -an suffix, it´s not of an interest (or well known) to the speaker and with -dik it´s a specific thing pointed out with some interest/knowledge.

İç savaş süren Nijerya = Nigeria where there is/was a civil war

İç savaşın sürdüğü Nijerya = Nigeria where the civil war is/was going on

İçinde yemek pişen tencere = the saucepan in which some food is cooking

İçinde yemeğin piştiği tencere = the saucepan in which the food is cooking

etc.

Ne diyecekse dese de biran önce bitse gitse.

Can you identify which -se is used for what purpose (i.e. wish/condition)?

But obviously you can´t say

*Nijerya iç savaş sürdü

*Tencere yemek pişiyor.

Why does it remind me of our favourite topic ergativity? I can´t catch the thought now. Of course it is not direct object that we are playing with but another modifier of the predicate. But on the other hand participle structures are not too pedantic with the classification of the modifier anyway, I mean an undirect object takes a participle modifier just as well as a direct object:

Kamyonetin gence çarptığı an Muğla´nın Bodrum ilçesinde, karşıdan karşıya geçerken kamyonetin çarptığı genç ağır yaralandı.

Komşuların baktığı 81 yaşındaki yaşlı çocuklarının vefasızlığından yakındı.

My Try:

I wish he just said whatever he has to say and it was over as soon as possible.

I think both dese, bitse and gitse are wishes but I can’t really understand if something in the structure of the sentence forces one to think so or not. But my guess is bitse and gitse belong together like the idiom bitti gitti.

http://www.uludagsozluk.com/k/bitti-gitti/

I also thought about it. Even I wrote "I smell some ergativity here" but deleted that part later before posting.

"Olmaz ol alacakaranlık! Yerin dibine bat alacakaranlık! Evin ocağın sönsün alacakaranlık! Onulmaz dertlere düşesin de sürüm sürüm sürünesin alacakaranlık!

Karanlık, gecedir, her gecenin de bir sabahı olur. Alacakaranlıkların hiç yoktur sabahı, bir sürüncemedir, sürer gider...

Ne aydınlık, ne karanlık... Varsa da yok... Yoksa da var... Var gibi de yok, yok gibi de yine var...

Yasalar; hem var, hem yok...  Kimine var, kimine  yok... Ki­mi zaman var, kimi zaman yok.

İnsan haklan; hani varımsı da, yokumtrak...

Demokrasi; demokrasisimsi.

Varımtrak yokumsu... Batılımsı da doğulumtrak... İlerimsi de biraz gerimtrak...

Olmaz ol alacakaranlık! Yerin dibine bat da bir daha çık­ma!

Gel ey aydınlık, gel!"

This is a bad one. I guess you have a lot of explaining to do after someone tries to translate this, si++.

Would it harm though if I asked a couple of things:

1. What is the -e- in these verb forms?

I suspected subjunctive but I am not sure if it is possible.

2. Could you mark the possessive suffixes in these last lines so that they wouldn´t mix with something else:

It might help a little bit...

I see 2 possessive suffixes (red ones excluding kimi):

And there are 2 suffixes you may not be familiar with:

-(i)msi

-(i)mtrak

Yasalar; hem var, hem yok...  Kimine var, kimine  yok... Ki­mi zaman var, kimi zaman yok.

İnsan hakları; hani varımsı da, yokumtrak...

Demokrasi; demokrasisimsi.

Varımtrak yokumsu... Batılımsı da doğulumtrak... İlerimsi de biraz gerimtrak...

Olmaz ol alacakaranlık! Yerin dibine bat da bir daha çık­ma!

Gel ey aydınlık, gel!"

I began to doubt when I saw twenty.

I recognized -(i)mtrak but the other derivation suffix you mentioned...I will have to find out.

I´ll give it a try (which doesn´t mean anyone else can´t).

My Try:

Get lost, colourful darkness! Drop dead, colourful darkness! May your house and fireside collapse, colourful darkness! Come on and fall into incurable pains and continuing life of misery, colourful darkness!

Darkness, it’s nighttime, not every night turns into morning. Colourful darkness doesn’t have a morning, it’s a state of uncertainty, it keeps on moving.

Neither light nor darkness…even if there is there isn’t…even if there isn’t there is…even if it seems like there is there isn’t, even if it seems like there isn’t there is.

Laws; both there are and there aren’t…They exist for some people, for other people not…Sometimes yes there are, sometimes not.

Human rights; you know, just like there were some but from the other hand not.

Democracy; something resembling so-to-say-democracy.

Just like there is and still isn’t…Westernish but something Eastern in it…Going forward and sort of returning a little bit at the same time.

Get lost, colourful darkness! Drop dead and don’t stand on your feet again!

Come, light, come!

Well, I will not make any corrections (so you´ve done well).

Alacakaranlık is given as twilight,dawn in the dictionary. It means neither day (lights) or night (dark) time, it´s something in between.

x-(i)msi means something (looking) like x

x-(i)mtrak means similar, x-ish

varımsı = something looking like exist

yokumtrak = non-existentish

ilerimsi = something looking like advanced

gerimtrak = backwardish

etc.

It was a good idea to bring about these suffixes which learners usually see once a year.

Thank you, si++.

Here´s an extended version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6LVuWFWZtU

If you can follow it, give yourselves some credits.

I am a bad listener but I gave it a try.

"Olmaz ol alacakaranlık! Yerin dibine bat alacakaranlık! Başın kel ola, gözün kör ola. Sürüm sürüm sürünesin, alacakaranlık. Alacakaranlık ne karanlıktır ne aydınlık. Aydınlıktan uzak, daha çok karanlığa yakın. Alacakaranlık bir kandırmacadır, yutturmaca, oyalama göz boyamadır.

(Evin ocağın sönsün alacakaranlık! Onulmaz dertlere düşesin de sürüm sürüm sürünesin alacakaranlık!)

Karanlık gecedir, her gecenin de bir sabahı olur. Alacakaranlıkların hiç yoktur sabahı, bir sürüncemedir, sürer gider...

Ne aydınlık, ne karanlık... (Varsa da yok... Yoksa da var...) Var gibi de yok, yok gibi de yine var...

Yasalar; hem var, hem yok...  Kimine var, kimine  yok... Ki­mi zaman var, kimi zaman yok. Kimi yerde var, kimi yerde yok.

İnsan hakları; hani varımsı da, yokumtrak...

Demokrasi; demokrasisimsi.

Sosyal adalet; sosyal adaletimsi.

Varımtrak yokumsu...Tatlımtrak acımsı…Salımtrak ama çarşambamsı…Batılımsı da doğulumtrak... İlerimsi de biraz gerimtrak...

Karanlık aydınlığının düşmanıdır. Alacakaranlık hiç birşeyin ne dostu ne düşmandır. O ne tezdir, ne antitezdir, ne santezdir. O Allahın bela olası pis birşeydir.

Gözün kör olsun, alacakaranlık, başın kel ola.

(Olmaz ol alacakaranlık!) Yerin dibine bat da bir daha çık­ma!

Karanlıkta kalmayın. Size ait olan asla… (AND THEN THEY START CLAPPING THEIR HANDS AND I CAN’T CATCH IT)

(Gel ey aydınlık, gel!")

Abla, I´m impressed! My hat off to you!

Your listening seems to be really good. Now I wonder how is your spoken Turkish? Can you carry out a conversation in Turkish fluently?

si++, your words are worth a million. They have eased my troubled mind.

But it was not such a big deal really. Serhat Kılıç’s pronounciation is so clear you almost don’t have to know Turkish at all to write down what he is saying. I think I am going to listen to him more.

Conversation? I don’t know really. Never tried.

How bout listening to him when he sings "what a wonderful world"? You may think Louis Armstrong is back!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKlWTTSBID8

I heard this one last night on TV:

Bize demokrasiyi yanlış öğrettiler. Önce demokrasi eşitliktir dediler, sonra olmadığını anladık.

The problem is olmadığını. It is an embedded sentence but in my opinion it may stand for both

                              (demokrasi) yok OR

                              (demokrasi eşitlik) değil.

Thus,

Democracy was taught to us wrong. First they said democracy is equality. Later we understood...

                             ...there is no such thing./it doesn´t exist. OR

                             ...it is not equality.

My Try only.

Bize demokrasiyi yanlış öğrettiler. Önce demokrasi eşitliktir dediler, sonra (onun /demokrasinin eşitlik) olmadığını anladık.

Anlıyorum da anlamıyorum, anlıyorsun değil mi?

Provide an approximate translation and also describe a relevant context.

P.S. No natives please!

i understand but i am acting as if i dont dont understand, do you understand?

-mış gibi davranmak ( or with other verbs can be )

  as if

he looks as if he is sleeping

uyuyormuş gibi görünüyor. 

he acts as if he does not understand.

Anlamamış gibi davranıyor.

I assume you are a native speaker, right? There was a note for them, didn´t you see it?

i have not seen it. sorry.

En iyi dualarını, onun ettiği yardımlar için ettiler.

Can you analyze the sentence? What is the subject, object and main verb? And can you mark the subclause if any?

No native speakers please!

*** Anadili Türkçe olanlar: önce yabancıların yanıtlamasına fırsat verin! ***

My Try:

Could it be this simple?

SUBJ  -  dropped pl 3 pronoun

PRED  -  etti|ler

OBJ  -  en iyi dua|ları|n|ı

> ´they made their best invocations´

In my opinion, this is the hard part:

                        onun ettiği yardımlar için

There must be a message in the plural form of yardımlar. My guess is instead of talking about ´help´ in general it means some concrete deeds, let´s say ´charities´.

I see two ways of interpreting için: 1) because (´because of the charities he had paid´ ) 2) so that, in order to (´so that he would pay charities´ ). On the basis of the participle ettiği being used I believe the speaker talks about actions that actually have been committed (the second alternative would be expressed with an infinitive onun yardımlar etmesi için or something similar).

>> ´They made their best invocations because of the charities he had paid.´

No?

Can you identify the following verbs in it:

Dua etmek - to pray

yardım etmek - to help

"Dua" becomes the object of etmek in the form of "dualarını".

And there is a subclause in it:

ettiği yardımlar = the helps which he/she did

This was an example of etmek being a full-blown verb rather than an auxiliary.

Yes, I can see your point,  si++. It is a good reminder. These verbs are units of their own right and they usually do not behave this way.

For instance sometimes I feel temptated to modify the first part of compound verbs but it does not work: *bu kabulü etti, *ateşkes kabulünü ettiler. Instead,

                       Mahkeme bunu kabul etti.

                       Suriye hükümeti Kurban bayramı´nda ateşkesi kabul etti.

No native speakers please!

*** Anadili Türkçe olanlar: önce yabancıların yanıtlamasına fırsat verin! ***

Quoting si++

Tümer Metin "Tümer Metin´in ne kadar olduğunu, neyi ne kadar verebileceğini, neyi ne kadar istediğini ve istediği zaman neyi nerede, neyi ne kadar yapabileceğini bir tek ben biliyorum..." sözleriyle ´neyi´ anlattığını merak ettireli 5 yıl oldu...

 

No native speakers please!

*** Anadili Türkçe olanlar: önce yabancıların yanıtlamasına fırsat verin! ***

 

 It has been 5 years since Tümer Metin made us wonder ´what´ he was explaining with the words, "Only I know how much Tümer Metin is, how much he can give ´of what´, how much he wants ´of what´ and when he wanted it where ´what´ was, and how much he can do ´of what´ "

I was wondering who would take on this?

Tümer Metin "Tümer Metin´in ne kadar olduğunu, neyi ne kadar verebileceğini, neyi ne kadar istediğini ve istediği zaman neyi nerede, neyi ne kadar yapabileceğini bir tek ben biliyorum..." sözleriyle ´neyi´ anlattığını merak ettireli 5 yıl oldu...

My try (only a little change for the last part):

It has been 5 years since Tümer Metin made us wonder ´what´ he was explaining with the words, "Only I know how much Tümer Metin is, how much he can give ´of what´, how much he wants ´of what´ and when he wanted it how much he can do ´of what´, where  and of what, to what extent"