Maybe he insulted Turkishness -

I can name you much better Turkish singers!! Tarkan....well everybody has different taste. Thank God for that.
Chacun à son goût!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe he insulted Turkishness

I can name you much better Turkish singers!! Tarkan....well everybody has different taste.
Chacun à son goût!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope this finally will sink in:

. Roswitha
1821 posts

Quote --- Modify 17 Feb 2008 Sun 01:24 pm
You must have missed what I stated:
Bullfighting is abhorrent, inhumane, cruel entertainment

You must have missed what I stated:
Bullfighting is abhorrent, inhumane, cruel entertainment

Camel Wrestling vs. Bullfighting, as a comparison, my personal view reg. Bullfighting is abhorrent, inhumane, cruel entertainment

Is bullfighting a legitimate slice of Spain or a cruel spectacle?
The Spanish bullfight is as much a ritual as it is a sport. Not to acknowledge the importance of the bullfight is to censor a venerable part of Spanish culture. But it also makes a spectacle out of the cruel killing of an animal. Should tourists boycott bullfights? I don't know.


Today bullfighting is less popular among locals. If this trend continues, bullfighting may survive more and more as a tourist event. When the day comes that bullfighting is kept alive by our tourist dollars rather than the local culture, then I'll agree with those who say bullfighting is immoral and that tourists shouldn't encourage it by buying tickets. Consider the morality of supporting this gruesome aspect of Spanish culture before buying a ticket. If you do decide to attend a bullfight, here is what you'll see.

While no two bullfights are the same, they unfold along a strict pattern. The ceremony begins punctually with a parade of participants across the ring. Then the trumpet sounds, the "Gate of Fear" opens, and the leading player — el toro — thunders in. A ton of angry animal is an awesome sight, even from the cheap seats (with the sun in your eyes).

The fight is divided into three acts. Act I is designed to size up the bull and wear him down. The matador (literally "killer"), with help from his assistants, attracts the bull with the shake of the cape, then directs the animal past his body, as close as his bravery allows. The bull sees only things in motion and (some think) red. After a few passes the picadores enter, mounted on horseback, to spear the swollen lump of muscle at the back of the bull's neck. This tests the bull as the matador watches studiously. It also lowers the bull's head and weakens the thrust of his horns. (Until 1927, horses had no protective pads and were often killed.)

In Act II, the matador's assistants (banderilleros) continue to enrage and weaken the bull. The banderillero charges the charging bull and, leaping acrobatically across its path, plunges brightly-colored barbed sticks into the bull's vital neck muscle.

After a short intermission, during which the matador may, according to tradition, ask permission to kill the bull and dedicate the kill to someone in the crowd, the final, lethal Act III begins.

The matador tries to dominate and tire the bull with hypnotic cape work. A good pass is when the matador stands completely still while the bull charges past. Then the matador thrusts a sword between the animal's shoulder blades for the kill. A quick kill is not always easy, and the matador may have to make several bloody thrusts before the sword stays in and the bull finally dies. Mules drag the dead bull out, and his meat is in the market mañana (barring "mad cow" concerns — and if ever there were a mad cow...). Rabo del toro (bull-tail stew) is a delicacy.

Throughout the fight, the crowd shows its approval or impatience. Shouts of "¡Olé!" or "¡Torero!" mean they like what they see. Whistling or rhythmic hand-clapping greets cowardice and incompetence.

You're not likely to see much human blood spilled. In 200 years of bullfighting in Sevilla, only 30 fighters have died (and only three were actually matadors). If a bull does kill a fighter, the next matador comes in to kill him. Historically, even the bull's mother is killed, since the evil qualities are assumed to have come from the mother.

After an exceptional fight, the crowd may wave white handkerchiefs to ask that the matador be awarded the bull's ear or tail. A brave bull, though dead, gets a victory lap from the mule team on his way to the slaughterhouse. Then the trumpet sounds, and a new bull charges in to face a fresh matador.

Fights are held on most Sundays, Easter through October (at 18:30 or 19:3. Serious fights with adult matadors are called corrida de toros. These are often sold out in advance. Summer fights are often novillada, with teenage novices doing the killing. Corrida de toros seats range from €20 for high seats facing the sun to €100 for the first three rows in the shade under the royal box. Novillada seats are half that, and generally easy to get at the arena a few minutes before showtime. Many Spanish women consider bullfighting sexy. They swoon at the dashing matadors who are sure to wear tight pants (with their partas nobles — noble parts — in view, generally organized to one side, farthest from the bull).

A typical bullfight lasts about two hours and consists of six separate fights — three matadors (each with his own team of picadors and banderilleros) fighting two bulls each. For a closer look at bullfighting by an American aficionado, read Ernest Hemingway's classic, Death in the Afternoon.

Natural ability without education has more often raised a man to glory and virtue than education without natural ability.
- Marcus T. Cicero

So true!


The view that culture and intellect go hand is dated. Art should be enjoyed by everyone.

I would love to see that! Although starting date of camel wrestling is not known, it is predicted that the wrestling organisations have been made since caravan and nomading period. Based on the information obtained from camel owners and wrestling fans, nomads and caravan owners had a competition and they had camel wrestling.
Camel wrestling has been seen more in Aydın as well as Aegean region(İzmir, Manisa, Muğla, Denizli) also many cities, districts, towns and villages, also in Marmara region (Balıkesir, Çanakkale), Mediterranean Region (Burdur Isparta) and other some provinces.
Although there are traditional rules of camel wrestling, they differ from region to region. However, camel wrestling does not have a unique field and spectators. The organisations for camel wrestling are usually held by associations dealing with activities in education, culture, health, sports and social fields for making profits. In some regions municipalities take part in organisations in order to discipline the wrestling and provide a certain order.
The incomes from wrestling organisation are used, after deduction of expenses, for specified purposes. Betting and other kind of organisations are made for camel wrestlings Camel wrestling is made between male camels delivered upon mating of female camel with single hump called "yoz" and male camels with double humps called "buhur".

The camels are for wrestling. They are born for wrestling that is their descendants were also wrestler camels.
Wrestler camels are grown up with special care and prepared for wrestling. The wrestling is organised during winter months when "Tülü"s are angry, namely in December, January, February and March.
Wrestling camel has a name. The names are given by their owners as well as by spectators because of the actions the camels make during wrestling. It is also seen that the names are chosen from the names of heroes of TV serials. It will be better if some names are given. Some of the names are Kolombo, Dozer, Şahintepesi, Gezer, Sarızeybek, Yörükali, Almanyalı, Ceylan, Flek, Ali Tülü, Talancı, Karka kartalı, Suat, Zümrüt, Menderes, Fırat, Takmakol, Şoför, Civan, Karamurat, Yarımdünya and so on.
The names of the camels are transcribed on the cloth put on back of the pack-saddle. This cloth is called Peş. "Maşallah" is written under the name.
One day before the wrestling, the camels taking part in the wrestling are designed in a traditional way. In addition, they are showed up in the streets. This is a worth seeing event. You hear drum and zurna playing zeybek and the bells of the camels. The dressed up camels indicate a different beauty. One is delighted of watching them. The city is too crowded like a festival. There is a huge crowd in front of cafe houses. The fans of camel wrestling are all there. Discussions about the wrestling go on. You are attracted by the camel owners in their traditional clothes and also some fans dressing in the same way, in caps, poşu, jacket and traditional trousers and boots. It is also possible to see some watching video clips of former wrestling. In the evening a friendship party called "Halı Gecesi" is held in order to provide friendship between camel owners and wrestling lovers. People eat, drink and sing songs of the region, play zeybek and also some auctions are held to sell carpets. This evening party is held one day before wrestling. The people prepare their meals one night prior to organisation date. Everybody is very excited.





Wrestling Day : People start to come wrestling field early in the morning. While some try to find a good seat at field, th others arrange the place where they can stay with their families. Grills and meals are prepared. At about 9.00-10.00 the wrestling field is full of wrestling lovers. In addition street hawkers take their places out of the field. Several kinds of foods, drinks, gifts are already placed on the counters. And drum and zurna are played. Some people start to play zeybek.
Then it is anounced from the speakers that the wrestling has started, and the names of the camels announced to come into field for wrestling. The movement out of the field now shifts to the field. Camel owners take the camels into the field. After the camels make a tour in the field the wrestling starts. Cmel wrestling generally starts at 9-00-10.00.
The person announcing the names of the wrestling camels (called by "Cazgır") praises the camels and contributes entertainment to the wrestling through his unique praising, and poems.
Camel wrestling is made in four categories, namely ayak, Orta, Başaltı and baş. The winners are determined by : 1.Making the rival escape, 2.cry 3.fall.
Cazgır is the most important and colourful figure of the camel wrestling as it is in oil wrestling. He tries to narrate the camel wrestling like sports reporters.


In camel wrestling the followings are charged with duties: organisation committees, referee committee(Head referee, mid referee and desk referee), urgancı (rope keeper) in sufficient number, mouth tiers (to tie mouth of the camels) and controller of tying mouth.
In the first one, the camel makes its rival escape from the field with its huge body. In the second, the camel ties its rival with several tricks and games, and the rival cannot stand this force and cries. In the third one, the winner makes its rival fall with tricks and attacks and sits on losing rival. There is also beating called "pes" (accepting defeat) in which the owner of the camel accepts the defeating in order to prevent his camel encounter damage, for this defeating the owner throws the rope into the field which means acceptance of defeating. The camels not beating each others are equal without any winners.
Some of the names given to tricks made by camels during wrestling are: Bağ, Çengel, Çatal, Makas, kol atması, Muşat çengel, Tam bağ, Yarım bağ, Düz çengel, Tekçi, Kol kaldırma.
In order to increase the excitement, great care is paid for matching the camels having different tricks. Each camel wrestles with a tülü in its class. The camels wrestling from right are matched with the ones wrestling from the right, and left ones with left ones, the ones hooking with the ones hooking etc. The winner camel bring its four feet together and salutes the spectator with boasting. As a reward it gets its carpet and leaves the field. Defeated camel shows silence and embarrassment.
Each camel wrestles only once a day. The duration of the wrestling is about 10 to 15 minutes. The rules are set out in order to prevent reduction in number of wrestling camels and damage of them.
All of them are carried out within a disciplinary manner and traditionally. When wrestling is ended, the owners and the winner camels return home with proud and happiness while spectators are delighted of having an exciting day.
The camel wrestling usually held in winter months in Aegean region has become winter festivals of Aegean region.

Turkish coffee houses : Çay ocağı
Even the smallest Turkish village has its coffee-house or kahvehane, where men can talk, drink tea, coffee, and play the national game of backgammon "Tavla". In many parts of Turkey especially, men can still be seen smoking their water pipes "Nargile" in these kind of coffee houses.
Turkish coffee houses were not just places where people puffed on water pipes and lazed around. They were hubs of social life where people gathered to listen to music, poetry and songs, to converse, and to discuss religious, economic and political topics. Indeed it was due to the latter that various excuses were found to close down the coffee houses on several occasions over the centuries.
Coffee houses were of several types. First of all there were the local coffee houses in each neighbourhood, simple establishments where the members of the community gathered, and those in commercial districts used by the tradesmen of the area.

Turkish tea ceremony :
When you wake up in the morning in Turkey, your first thought is to enjoy a tiny glass of ruby tinted tea. The day goes on, and after lunch it is time to chat over more tea. Then around 5 o'clock in the afternoon comes tea accompanied by crisp simit rings sprinkled with sesame seeds with white cheese. Tea is an important part of Turkish daily life, as it is in Britain, China and Japan.
The most widely consumed drink in the world, tea is made from the tender leaves at the tips of the branches of the evergreen plant Thea sinensis or Camellia sinensis. There are three principal varieties of tea plant, Chinese, Assam and Cambodian, and many hybrids produced from these.

Had fun exploring most of these sight, while visiting the Theodosian Walls in Istanbul

CITY WALLS Hypoege of Silivrikapi
During the restoration of the land walls in 1988 the level of the earth was decreased and the last 50 years' most important site came to light. Due to disagreement between the experts and cultural departments of the government the immediate preventative measurements were not taken. Finally an iron gate was placed at the entrance, which made it more attractive to the treasure hunters. Later a TV special was made called "Sur Gunlugu 1993" (Diary o the walls 1993). The restoration of the hypoege was based on this film. In 1994 it was published by Serdaroglu and Deckers. Inside the hypoege there were stone relievos which showed 4th - 5th century Byzantine sculpture technics. The window was one of a kind, it was a rare example of the Byzantine architecture, and unfortunately today we only have the pictures of it. There were also six tomb lids and a sarcophagus, which were destroyed through the years, passed. The thieves have broken the lids into 18 pieces but before succeeded stealing them they were captured by the police and all of the pieces were transferred to the archaeological museum of Istanbul. The frescoes of the hypoege were covered with plaster, which were removed carelessly, today they too are gone.
Excavations held between Silivrikap and Mevlevihanekapi :
In 1992 I was the adviser of this site. A hypodge was found just south of the tower number 46. There are six monograms that were published by C. Foss and D. Winfield in Byzantine fortifications tower 46. This gives us the exact restoration date of the walls. During the restorations excavations of the tower 46 in 1992 the four-roomed tomb was found just the south of it. In one of the rooms we found four cross frescoes in the style of of the iconoclasm period. The date on the tower and the crosses are the same. Nothing else was found except for a glass censer .At the north of the tower 46 we found seven tombs, in these tombs there were the same cross frescoes.
Mevlevihanekapi :
During the excavation held between Millet Caddesi and Mevlevihanekapi I was one of the team members when cross-shaped tomb stelles were found. In 1950 in order to build wide roads Sehremini area was excavated and earth was dumped here so this explains the existence of these stelles here. At the same area we ran into sarcophagus pieces which had resemblance with Taskasap.
Between Sarayburnu and Ahirkapi Feneri Between Sarayburnu and Ahirkapi Feneri is Iocate Mangane Palace. During the occupation of Istanbul 1919-1921 the Mangane area, which comes all the way to the foot of Topkapi was excavated m1d the results were published in 1939 by Demangel in Paris. Demangel had to close down the excavated sites. Some of the findings of one of the restored towers originally belonged to Polyektos church at Sarachane.
Great Palace :
Palace of Hormistas (6th. Century) There is another wall ruin, which makes us think of another function of the building. There are also in situ positioned columns, which gives the building a new look. Because of the local elections the work at the site was stopped, so the work is incomplete. When we move to the Great Palace, which Hormistas is connected to, we see that right across from the Mosaic Museum, a hotel was built illegally. On the same spot towards east to the Magnaura Palace which was known as the Stair cased Tower, was cleaned. On the same street a bigger part of the palace was found in 1998 the archive building of the palace was found. It was built as an archive building in 6th. Century, frescoes were applied in the 10th. century and another part of it was rebuild in 16th.century and perhaps it was used as Nakkashane. During the 19th. century the Fossati ruined the site by building the Adliye Sarayi ( courthouse )
St. Sophia's East Arch :
Plasters came off the arch because of dampness, and the mosaics of Ioannes Paloiologos V. and empress came out.
The Outer Courtyard of Sultanahmet Mosque :
As you know this is a first-degree historical site. And there was a non-scientific excavation held by the mosque was stopped by the archaeological museum officials. During this illegal work many gateways, monogrammed columns and seats that belonged to the Hippodrome were found. Another Finding Right Across Adliye Sarayi : It was one of the pavilions of the Roman imperial Palace. We heard that a frescoed panel had been seen but before the pictures were taken it was gone.
Bodrum Mosque Cistem During the construction of a parking lot, stairs on the south of the cistern were destroyed. Roof of the cistern had small domes but today we only see the flat stone platforms. Julia Anicia Palace : In the 50's, during the construction of the belediye sarayi (town hall) some palace floor mosaics were found. Today they are on display at the St.Sophia Museum's outer narthex. Later in 1991 foundation of an old building was found close to the location. This building could be the remains of Julia Anicia.
Atik Mustafa Pasa Mosque :
When Vakiflar was changing the floor it was chance to check the Reliker, but the permission was not given, also there were teseras on the floor which indicated that there were exmosaic panels as well as the frescoes m the building.
Samatya, floor mosaic with Dionisac Motif This might belong to a rich person's house, which is located outside the Constantine walls in the direction of Arianus Gate. Last year(1998) a Foundation was found near Zeyrek. On it's remaining wall, heart shaped decorative motifs can be seen. First it was used as a church than as a cistern. Again last summer the wooden building attached to Kalenderhane was knocked down and the apsis of the building came out for a brief period. Immediately a new building was built and attached to it closing the view of the apsis maybe for another century.
St. Sophia's underwater archaeology Very recently there was underwater archaeological work done in the cistern and in the wells of St. Sophia. A new TV program will be released soon covering this work.