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(36 Messages in 4 pages - View all)
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1.       CANLI
5084 posts
 02 Sep 2006 Sat 01:43 pm

İ read those Örnek in Hitit

İ understoond its optitive ,positive and negative forms

Eylem +(mA ) (y) A

But why they are repeating words ?

Buraya yürüye yürüye geldim
Dans etmeye etmeye figürleri unutmuşum
Çocuklar bahçede hoplaya zıplaya oynuyorlar
Sana seve seve yardımederim
Görüşmeye görüşmeye birbirimiz unuttuk
Hakan konuşmaya konuşmaya İngilizceyi unutmuş

And in Alıştırma too,they ask to repeat the verbs.... WHY ?

2.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 02 Sep 2006 Sat 04:40 pm

I think there is no reason... This is just a usage form of the language...

3.       janissary
0 posts
 02 Sep 2006 Sat 05:16 pm

Quoting CANLI:

İ read those Örnek in Hitit

İ understoond its optitive ,positive and negative forms

Eylem +(mA ) (y) A

But why they are repeating words ?

Buraya yürüye yürüye geldim
Dans etmeye etmeye figürleri unutmuşum
Çocuklar bahçede hoplaya zıplaya oynuyorlar
Sana seve seve yardımederim
Görüşmeye görüşmeye birbirimiz unuttuk
Hakan konuşmaya konuşmaya İngilizceyi unutmuş

And in Alıştırma too,they ask to repeat the verbs.... WHY ?



when u repeat words u tell how it happened or happenes. it describes the activity. the repaeting words tell how the activity like. it s called "ikileme". these repaats consolidate the sentenses too. in turkish there are some word repeats which imitate some sounds in nature. like "dere şırıl şırıl akıyor" biri kapıya tak tak vurdu. şırıl şırıl and tak tak are the sounds imitated.

4.       CANLI
5084 posts
 03 Sep 2006 Sun 11:39 am

Ohh,Can you translate the sentence that are repeated into English ?
İ want to know how it sound and arranged in the sentence

Tşk

5.       CANLI
5084 posts
 05 Sep 2006 Tue 04:04 am

Özür dilerim,

İ have posted earlier that

Eylem + y (A) Eylem + y (A)

İs an optative,

İ was wrong,it is not optative,it only can be optative if it takes kişi eki 'personal pronoune' like in this form

Eylem + y (A) + y + kişi eki

But the first form

Eylem + y (A) Eylem + y (A) ...means continue doing something,and it takes negative suffix too (mA)

Konuşmaya konuşmaya İngilizceyi unutmuş

Means ,he forget by not to continue talk english

And it sometimes repeat the word,to give more stress to the meaning

İ just learnt it

İ've learnt today...

6.       CANLI
5084 posts
 12 Jan 2007 Fri 04:24 am

İ came across this sentence in my book.
Şu tuzluğu bana uzatır mısınız ?

Will you hand me that tuzluk ? right ?

So why did we use the Geniş Zaman here ?

Shouldn't we use,Sene ?
So it be,
Şu tuzluğu bana uzatsana !
Or,
Şu tuzluğu bana uzatsın mı ?

Then we sometimes use the Geniş zaman as a request in some places too ?
When ?

7.       gezbelle
1542 posts
 12 Jan 2007 Fri 05:40 am

Quoting CANLI:

Şu tuzluğu bana uzatır mısınız ?



geniş zaman can be used in questions relating to:

1) qualities and skills
ex.
türkçe konuşur musun - do you speak turkish?
istanbul'a gider mi? - does it go to istanbul?

2) idiomatic questions
ex.
olur mu? - is that okay?

3) polite requests
ex.
tekrarlar mısın? - could you repeat that?
bana anlatır mısın? - could you tell me that?

şu tuzluğu bana uzatır mısınız? - could you pass me that saltshaker? (this is a polite request)

8.       CANLI
5084 posts
 12 Jan 2007 Fri 02:47 pm

Ohhh,i see,
But when do we use Geniş zaman for a polite request,and when do we use sene ?

9.       Dilara
1153 posts
 12 Jan 2007 Fri 08:19 pm

Quoting CANLI:

Ohhh,i see,
But when do we use Geniş zaman for a polite request,and when do we use sene ?



Canli I cant answer to your last question but I once read that this tense (appart from polite request) is used when you OFFER to do something and also future tense.

In the first case :
"Onu Yaparım' = I do that or 'I wıll do that' (you are offerıng your help to do something )
Umarım yardımı olur!
kendine iyi bak canım!

10.       qdemir
813 posts
 13 Jan 2007 Sat 12:57 am

Quoting Dilara:

Quoting CANLI:

Ohhh,i see,
But when do we use Geniş zaman for a polite request,and when do we use sene ?



Canli I cant answer to your last question but I once read that this tense (appart from polite request) is used when you OFFER to do something and also future tense.

In the first case :
"Onu Yaparım' = I do that or 'I wıll do that' (you are offerıng your help to do something )
Umarım yardımı olur!
kendine iyi bak canım!



The "geniş zaman" is also used to express to do an action in future, which one is unwilling to do. S/he says that s/he is going to do in order not to argue with the other side about the reply of no.

Mother to her son: Odanı topla. (Tidy your room.)
Son : Toplarım. (I will tidy.) (implies that he isn't actually going to tidy his room. He has said "Toplarım" not to have an argument with his mother.)

If he had been willing to tidy his room he would have said "Topluyorum" (I am tidying.) and had started tidying.

11.       CANLI
5084 posts
 13 Jan 2007 Sat 01:33 am

İ wish his mother doesn't know that too,lol

But qdemir,when do we use Geniş zaman,and when do we use Sene ?

12.       qdemir
813 posts
 13 Jan 2007 Sat 01:41 am

That can be (but not always) deduced from intonation.
Whether the person is really willing to do what s/he has just said.


For requests:
We use the "geniş zaman" in formal situations.
We use -SENE in informal situations; between friends, etc

13.       CANLI
5084 posts
 13 Jan 2007 Sat 01:48 am

Aha,then we can use geniş zaman in place of sene,but in formal situations.
Anladım çok Tşkler.

Btw,i have another quistion regarding geniş zaman,will you see if you answer it for me ?
Thank you .

14.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 14 Jan 2007 Sun 09:33 pm

Quoting CANLI:

Aha,then we can use geniş zaman in place of sene,but in formal situations.
Anladım çok Tşkler.

Btw,i have another quistion regarding geniş zaman,will you see if you answer it for me ?
Thank you .



what is your other question?

15.       CANLI
5084 posts
 15 Jan 2007 Mon 01:50 am

İt was, why do we change the negative suffix from 'mA' to 'mAz'
And why we don't change it with ben and biz ?

16.       Elisa
0 posts
 15 Jan 2007 Mon 10:17 pm

Quoting CANLI:

İt was, why do we change the negative suffix from 'mA' to 'mAz'
And why we don't change it with ben and biz ?



I guess that's just one of those rules we have to except dear I don't think there's an explanation for those changes. Don't think too hard

17.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 17 Jan 2007 Wed 12:29 pm

Quoting CANLI:

İt was, why do we change the negative suffix from 'mA' to 'mAz'
And why we don't change it with ben and biz ?



Sorry but I can't understand what you mean. Can you give some examples about that?

18.       Ex_tacier
22 posts
 26 Jan 2007 Fri 09:39 pm

Quoting caliptrix:

Quoting CANLI:

İt was, why do we change the negative suffix from 'mA' to 'mAz'
And why we don't change it with ben and biz ?



Sorry but I can't understand what you mean. Can you give some examples about that?



In place of gelmez-im
gelme-m
In place of gelmez-iz
gelme-y-iz

They are just exceptions.

19.       Audrey
19 posts
 26 Jan 2007 Fri 11:45 pm

Quoting Ex_tacier:

Quoting caliptrix:

Quoting CANLI:

İt was, why do we change the negative suffix from 'mA' to 'mAz'
And why we don't change it with ben and biz ?



Sorry but I can't understand what you mean. Can you give some examples about that?



In place of gelmez-im
gelme-m
In place of gelmez-iz
gelme-y-iz

They are just exceptions.




Is it gelmeyiz or gelmemiz ?
I found gelmeyiz everywhere (in my grammar, here, in winmekmak, ...) but my teacher says it's gelmemiz. He says that gelmeyiz is a very similar tense, but not gemiş zaman.
So, does any of you know gelmemiz ?

Audrey

20.       metehan2001
501 posts
 27 Jan 2007 Sat 02:43 am

Quoting Audrey:

Quoting Ex_tacier:

Quoting caliptrix:

Quoting CANLI:

İt was, why do we change the negative suffix from 'mA' to 'mAz'
And why we don't change it with ben and biz ?



Sorry but I can't understand what you mean. Can you give some examples about that?



In place of gelmez-im
gelme-m
In place of gelmez-iz
gelme-y-iz

They are just exceptions.



Is it gelmeyiz or gelmemiz ?
I found gelmeyiz everywhere (in my grammar, here, in winmekmak, ...) but my teacher says it's gelmemiz. He says that gelmeyiz is a very similar tense, but not gemiş zaman.
So, does any of you know gelmemiz ?

Audrey



I think there are some confuses, here.

I. Biz gelmeyiz./ We don't come.(Gelme-(y)iz: Present Tense, Negative Form, firt person plural)

2. Bizim buraya gelmemiz, iki saat sürdü./ It took 2 hours for us to come(our coming) here. ('Gelme' is Infinitive form. 'miz' is possesive ending for 1 person for plural.)

21.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 27 Jan 2007 Sat 10:28 pm

i dont come: gelmem
you dont come: gelmezsin
he doesnt come: gelmez

we dont come: gelmeyiz
you dont come: gelmezsiniz
they dont come: gelmezler


Yes, why don't we change? lol

(I am going to find reasons. Maybe I have to study philology)

22.       metehan2001
501 posts
 28 Jan 2007 Sun 12:39 am

Quoting caliptrix:


i dont come: gelmem
you dont come: gelmezsin
he doesnt come: gelmez

we dont come: gelmeyiz
you dont come: gelmezsiniz
they dont come: gelmezler


Yes, why don't we change? lol

(I am going to find reasons. Maybe I have to study philology)



caliptrix, as you know, languages are not static, they are diynamic. In old Turkish,in Present Tense for Negative Form the ending was 'mez/maz' for all the persons (singular or plural). And it is almost the same in Azeri Turkish, today. In old Turkish we used to say,

Men gelmezem.
Sen gelmezsen.
O gelmez.
Biz gelmezik.
Siz gelmezsiz.
Onlar gelmezler.

But, in modern Turkish there has been some changes. So, in present Turkish,we say,

i dont come: gelmem
you dont come: gelmezsin
he doesnt come: gelmez

we dont come: gelmeyiz
you dont come: gelmezsiniz
they dont come: gelmezler

23.       tirrogan
0 posts
 28 Jan 2007 Sun 01:43 am

agse give me just 5 minutes

24.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 28 Jan 2007 Sun 02:08 am

Quoting metehan2001:

Quoting caliptrix:


i dont come: gelmem
you dont come: gelmezsin
he doesnt come: gelmez

we dont come: gelmeyiz
you dont come: gelmezsiniz
they dont come: gelmezler


Yes, why don't we change? lol

(I am going to find reasons. Maybe I have to study philology)



caliptrix, as you know, languages are not static, they are diynamic. In old Turkish,in Present Tense for Negative Form the ending was 'mez/maz' for all the persons (singular or plural). And it is almost the same in Azeri Turkish, today. In old Turkish we used to say,

Men gelmezem.
Sen gelmezsen.
O gelmez.
Biz gelmezik.
Siz gelmezsiz.
Onlar gelmezler.

But, in modern Turkish there has been some changes. So, in present Turkish,we say,

i dont come: gelmem
you dont come: gelmezsin
he doesnt come: gelmez

we dont come: gelmeyiz
you dont come: gelmezsiniz
they dont come: gelmezler



So do you agree with me?:

Don't look for reasons, "why? why, why?"
There are not always a reason
Language is something to use... Not a system full of causes

25.       metehan2001
501 posts
 28 Jan 2007 Sun 06:21 pm

Quote:

So do you agree with me?:

Don't look for reasons, "why? why, why?"
There are not always a reason
Language is something to use... Not a system full of causes



I couldn't get it. Did you ask the above questions to me , caliptrix?
this is your post:

'Yes, why don't we change?

(I am going to find reasons. Maybe I have to study philology)'

and you are asking me not to look for reasons!

26.       libralady
5152 posts
 28 Jan 2007 Sun 10:59 pm

Don't look for reasons! That is my problem, I need a reason to explain why. But it is not just in languages (for me). It is a habit hard to break, but the explanations given above for not looking for a reason actually give me the reason. Hopefully you will understand what I mean.

27.       deli
5904 posts
 28 Jan 2007 Sun 11:14 pm

sometimes there are no reasons ,it is how it is

28.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 30 Jan 2007 Tue 12:01 am

Quoting metehan2001:



I couldn't get it. Did you ask the above questions to me , caliptrix?



I mean:

There doesnt have to be always a reason.
It can be reasonless.

Why do we call "language" in English "language"?
Why is it "dil" in Turkish?
Why is "chair" named "masa" in Turkish? Why not "araba"?
Why do we add "-yor" suffix for present continuous tense?
Why does verb have to be at last in Turkish?
Why is Turkish: Turkish? lol

Quoting CANLI:

why do we change the negative suffix from 'mA' to 'mAz'
And why we don't change it with ben and biz ?



As Deli said: it is how it is...

Because this is its usage...

29.       robyn :D
2640 posts
 30 Jan 2007 Tue 12:05 am

ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do and die

can't remember where its from but i remembered it..

30.       metehan2001
501 posts
 30 Jan 2007 Tue 12:15 am

In fact, I had tried to tell the same opinion in my first post. But I think, I wasn't clear.
Learners of second language should learn how to use it first, then after advanced level if they want more and detailed study, they can start studying etymology.

31.       CANLI
5084 posts
 30 Jan 2007 Tue 02:54 am

Quoting metehan2001:


Learners of second language should learn how to use it first, then after advanced level if they want more and detailed study, they can start studying etymology.


Maybe you are right metehan,
But there are some people who cann't use the language,or memorize it without know why things are like this in some logical explanation,if there is any.
İ'm one of those people,i don't have a good memory,but once i understand thing well,i never forget,that is why i ask why.
And Geniş zaman was my problem,i never manage to memorize it well,and i've studied it 6 monthes ago,everytime i need to use word in Geniş zaman,i must check it from the book first.
But after your explanation now,that it used to be maz with all.
İ won't forget it again
Exactly same like 'mI ' with Şimdiki zaman,i never forget.
Thank you

32.       caliptrix
3055 posts
 30 Jan 2007 Tue 02:58 am

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting metehan2001:


Learners of second language should learn how to use it first, then after advanced level if they want more and detailed study, they can start studying etymology.


Maybe you are right metehan,
But there are some people who cann't use the language,or memorize it without know why things are like this in some logical explanation,if there is any.
İ'm one of those people,i don't have a good memory,but once i understand thing well,i never forget,that is why i ask why.
And Geniş zaman was my problem,i never manage to memorize it well,and i've studied it 6 monthes ago,everytime i need to use word in Geniş zaman,i must check it from the book first.
But after your explanation now,that it used to be maz with all.
İ won't forget it again
Exactly same like 'mI ' with Şimdiki zaman,i never forget.
Thank you



Canlı, I hope you don't misunderstand me. What I did was not a critic. I told just there is no reason for that. Don't hesitate asking anything. Ask "why" but the answer can be "no reason" too. That's all

Kolay gelsin.

33.       CANLI
5084 posts
 30 Jan 2007 Tue 03:06 am

Thank you so much caliptrix,you were and are always so helpful really to everyone

İ understand what you mean,it is same in any language,even i cann't answer same question if in my own language too.
Specially my langauge,not easy one even to me,lol

But because we are learning foreigner langauge,you just find yourself search for the logic in it to make it easier for you to understand !

And we,i thank you all for your patience with us really

34.       metehan2001
501 posts
 31 Jan 2007 Wed 12:18 am

You are welcome, CANLI.

35.       sazji
47 posts
 01 Feb 2007 Thu 01:59 am

Quoting caliptrix:

Quoting metehan2001:


caliptrix, as you know, languages are not static, they are diynamic. In old Turkish,in Present Tense for Negative Form the ending was 'mez/maz' for all the persons (singular or plural). And it is almost the same in Azeri Turkish, today. In old Turkish we used to say,

Men gelmezem.
Sen gelmezsen.
O gelmez.
Biz gelmezik.
Siz gelmezsiz.
Onlar gelmezler.

But, in modern Turkish there has been some changes. So, in present Turkish,we say,

i dont come: gelmem
you dont come: gelmezsin
he doesnt come: gelmez

we dont come: gelmeyiz
you dont come: gelmezsiniz
they dont come: gelmezler



So do you agree with me?:

Don't look for reasons, "why? why, why?"
There are not always a reason
Language is something to use... Not a system full of causes



Just a note - some of these forms are still current in Anatolian dialects. You can do some really interesting comparative studies between Turkish languages and piece it all together. But the point made at the end is very good. Look at all the irregularities in English. Very likely there are reasons for all of them. But if you spend your time trying to understand all the reasons for those exceptions...well, you might learn a lot of interesting linguistic trivia about English but it won't help you actually learn to speak English! Same goes for Turkish. "Öyle işte." "It just is.

36.       metehan2001
501 posts
 01 Feb 2007 Thu 02:57 am

I completely agree with you, sazji.

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