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Two pennies for your thoughts ....!!
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| 2410. |
15 Jun 2008 Sun 12:38 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: It is great to be a full time mom, it is equally great to be a working mom, and it would be really great if men would share the burden of child rearing, maybe then women wouldn't have to give up their personal goals completely - don't you think that's actually how it should be? Why does the entire burden of raising children always fall on the shoulders of women? |
My daughter-in-law has just gone back to work on slightly reduced hours now the baby is seven months' old - partly from desire, partly from necessity. She is a good mum and my son is a very good dad - he does as much, if not more, than my daughter-in-law. When they visited us recently he was feeding the baby in a restaurant and the Turkish lads were laughing at him saying 'Are you a woman?' They couldn't believe it when I said he also changes nappies, baths the baby and does a great deal of the cooking. I'm not sure he's much help with the cleaning - but then he was always a very untidy child!! 
I was a stay-at-home mum - that was what I chose to do and luckily it wasn't essential for me to be earning too. I liked being able to spend a lot of time with my boys (I have 3 so that makes me 'worthy' DD ) and I think they benefited from it. My husband didn't help in the same way my son does but then I accepted at that time that my job was looking after the kids and the house and his was earning the money. Our way worked for us all those years ago and my son's way works for them now.
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| 2411. |
15 Jun 2008 Sun 12:40 pm |
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Quoting girleegirl: Quoting Daydreamer:
Alameda knows - she observes the rotten American society and comments! |
Oh dear! I forgot that alameda is the authority on everything she speaks about! How could I be so stupid as to question anything that comes from her fingertips?!?!?  |
Ok so you don't agree with Alameda, but no need to be so venimous with your response.
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| 2412. |
15 Jun 2008 Sun 06:24 pm |
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Quoting catwoman: I think it is you, alameda, who disrespect working women/working mothers. It is a much more complicated issue then you present it to be (and feminists don't disrespect stay-at-home moms, they just say that women should always try to be independent of their husbands/boyfriends... etc, to be self-sustainable and not dependent on others, for what they do need their own source of income). |
In no way am I disrespecting women, I am asking both men and women to reevaluate their situation. Life involves alliances. A marriage is not an independent venture, it is an alliance involving people (hopefully) sharing their life and assets. Whatever assets and responsibilities exist should be shared.
Unfortunately in the past, in many parts of the world, all income was distributed solely at the man's discretion. Women had to ask for money to run the home. She literally could be kept barefoot and pregnant. If she was divorced, she had to fight for her share of the assets. If the various functions a traditional wife took care of were salaried positions, very few could afford it. It is complicated, why not look for a solution?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_property
Quoting catwoman: It is great to be a full time mom, it is equally great to be a working mom, and it would be really great if men would share the burden of child rearing, maybe then women wouldn't have to give up their personal goals completely - don't you think that's actually how it should be? |
Quoting catwoman: Why does the entire burden of raising children always fall on the shoulders of women? |
Where do you get the idea I in any way put the entire burden of raising children on women? What I'm talking about, in essence, is labor management. Too many people trying to screw in a one light bulb is not efficient.
Quoting catwoman: I expect that you will start going on now about 'nature', 'biology'... etc. Please don't, I find this simplistic biologic determinism of yours rather unsophisticated and uninsightful. |
Ummm...we should not look at biology? Let's just forget about the fact that men don't have functional mammary glands? Of course, we can always use bottles and formulas ...Oh...we do already...! Have as many children as you want or don't want...but I'm asking why do so many not want to have children? Is that not a reasonable question?
Quoting catwoman: Some women don't have the luxury of staying at home with kids, maybe you could respect them a little bit as well, what do you think? |
How on earth you get the idea I don't respect women who have to work is beyond me. I certainly do, and I also pity them. I am talking about an ideal.
The reality of the situation is you would be hard pressed to find many traditional 'wives' anywhere these days. They are a dying species, and I mean that quite literally. It's mostly men who love having working wives. They want 'career' women. Women who help pay the bills. The actual value brought into the home by homemakers has been vastly undermined. I am only saying we have lost something quite valuable and maybe we (men and women) should reevaluate things.
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| 2413. |
15 Jun 2008 Sun 07:08 pm |
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Why do I choose to work? Uhhh....because I went to university, learned how to do something, and actually enjoy doing it. Do I do it for the money?...not always. When my son was born, I didn't HAVE to work. I could have been a stay at home Mom...but I truely love what I do. I also do volunteer work related to my field...because I love it....It is personally fulfilling and necessary to my personal happiness. Am I a biological freak? Am I a feminist?.....not really....I am making a personal choice, which just makes me human.......My personal thoughts on the subject.
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| 2414. |
15 Jun 2008 Sun 10:56 pm |
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Quoting Elisabeth: Why do I choose to work? Uhhh....because I went to university, learned how to do something, and actually enjoy doing it. |
Uhhh....don't you think home makers also work, and know how to do something?....Excuse me, but it sounds like you imply they don't work or know how to do anything...
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| 2415. |
16 Jun 2008 Mon 03:29 am |
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Quoting alameda: Quoting Elisabeth: Why do I choose to work? Uhhh....because I went to university, learned how to do something, and actually enjoy doing it. |
Uhhh....don't you think home makers also work, and know how to do something?....Excuse me, but it sounds like you imply they don't work or know how to do anything... |
Hey alameda, why don't you stop being so defensive and actually try to understand that I was merely giving my thougths on the matter. I meant to imply that I wanted to use what I had learned in university. No offense was meant....not quite sure why offense was taken...I find you extremely sensitive about the whole thing. I am a homemaker AS WELL AS a career woman and I do both quite well, thank you.
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| 2416. |
16 Jun 2008 Mon 05:55 am |
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Quoting libralady:
Ok so you don't agree with Alameda, but no need to be so venimous with your response. |
You call that venomous? I call it sarcasm. But if you are going to call me out on my response then you should, in fairness, look at some of alameda's responses and do the same.
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| 2417. |
16 Jun 2008 Mon 06:21 am |
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Quoting alameda: The reality of the situation is you would be hard pressed to find many traditional 'wives' anywhere these days. They are a dying species, and I mean that quite literally. It's mostly men who love having working wives. They want 'career' women. Women who help pay the bills. The actual value brought into the home by homemakers has been vastly undermined. I am only saying we have lost something quite valuable and maybe we (men and women) should reevaluate things. |
Ok, I see. However, I found your post to be condescending to many women. Women already have so many expectations and pressures to fulfill - 'to be a good mom', 'to be independent enough', 'to prove that we can have a career', 'to always look amazing'... etc, etc.... the list goes on. There's really no need for you or anybody else to judge women based on their choices to do what they find most suitable for themselves. When a woman WANTS to work, people like you put guilt into these women's lives that they are not good enough mothers. I know some women who literally feel relieved to go to work because home drives them crazy (they are single moms).
It is a great progress that women now have careers and became a bit more independent, the next step I hope will be that men will realize that they also need to share the job of taking care of children (only 1.7% of all primary child takers are men in the US).
I really don't understand why you glorify the traditional child caring role of women so much. I find it a very suffocating environment when roles are so strictly divided and pre-organized. People can choose various combinations of work and home, whatever works for them best. And, psychologists say that a good child-care facility is good for children, helps them learn their social skills. Parents can work and can be good parents at the same time, especially when BOTH mother and father are involved. It's not so much about the quantity of the time spent together, but mostly about the quality.
We (women) should support each other instead of being judgmental like that.
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| 2418. |
16 Jun 2008 Mon 05:29 pm |
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One of our greatests poet said
'Al Om madrasaten iza a'adadtha
A'adadt omahtan Tayibai al'araki'
'The Mother is an institute,if you prepar her well,you are preparing a nation with very good roots'
As you see he didnt say a father.
So actually the role of a mother is unique ,very much unique to the fact that she is a woman
İ mean,yes i agree men should help,share ...bla bla,ect
But they can NEVER and will NEVER also take that role
No offence guys,but i think a mother can do good with children without the father than a father can do without a mother
İts hard of course both ways,but kindness,sensitiveness,...ect is in women nature more than men
So yes,i agree that having more time for the children in the women schedule is more important than in the men's
But as gg said,i agree with that too its not optional nowadays,its even a privilege to have such choice
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| 2419. |
16 Jun 2008 Mon 05:46 pm |
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It is a sweet sentiment, canli...but I don't agree with it. The role of father is just as important as the role of mother. Parenting should be a seamless cooperation between two people who make an agreement to share parenting duties...with no one person assuming a more important role. It seems to me that men purposely stress how important mothers are so that they don't feel guilty about only doing a half-ass job. 
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| 2420. |
16 Jun 2008 Mon 06:45 pm |
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Quoting Elisabeth: It is a sweet sentiment, canli...but I don't agree with it. The role of father is just as important as the role of mother. Parenting should be a seamless cooperation between two people who make an agreement to share parenting duties...with no one person assuming a more important role. It seems to me that men purposely stress how important mothers are so that they don't feel guilty about only doing a half-ass job. |
İ'd rather agree with that Elisabith to some extent,the role of either father or a mother is completing each other each to her/his nature
Still Fathers generally cant offer same tenderness and kindness as mothers do which is very much important specially to the children's first years
So i believe having mothers around in the children first years is rather important than fathers around
So,in choosing to establish a family,one must carry on his/her duties towards it
So at that times,in my opinion children come first before career as long as you chose to have one
You cant choose to establish a family and have the children then let them suffer the feelings that' neither Mom or Dad are free to be with me ' or ' work comes first then i do '
İn that early ages children need their mothers more
Of course i dont say kids dont need their fathers,but the first person they got to know when opening their eyes is Mother,so their security is there with her
We have different natures,we cant say we are equal so we are same
We are equal,but YES we are different.
Ps:you is generally speaking
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